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| | | From: joie (Original Message) | Sent: 8/12/2005 1:29 AM |
Jesus is my Sabbath Matt. 11:28 - Come unto ME, all ye that LABOUR and are heavy LADEN, and I will give you REST ( Here Matthew is speaking to those under the law) ( ‘laboring�?is the works of the law; we do not labor for Grace; it is given to us) Vs. 29 - Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. ( See, if you are in rest, you are not laboring -- the law is �?works�? laboring. Vs. 30 - For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. ( Remember, that the old law was only heaviness and hard on them? Jesus changed this and gave us something light and easy to do) Praise God for the victory; for deliverance from that old hard way of life; from that old law. Now, my dear friend, please take a few minutes of your time to stop and meditate on this. JESUS said come to ME. He did not say come to Saturday. He said come to me and I’ll give you rest. The REST for your SOUL; not rest for your body. This is where the mix up comes in; you are still in the first covenant; = that of the flesh. The law in the word is referred to as ‘flesh�?This is the one that lines up with the first man Adam. It is the one that God hated= the Essau. He did away with this ‘flesh�?‘laboring�?covenant. Those people in that covenant never did please God. The law is not of faith; without faith it is impossible to please God. So, why would God require us to go back to that? If it is not of FAITH and you cannot please God without Faith, of what merit would there be in our returning back to that after Jesus gives us his rest and faith? I just do not see how anyone can fail to see this? It is just too plainly taught in the word. Just because we see that we are not under that old law, does not mean that we go out and commit murderer or other sins. No! We go by Commandments of the New Testament. It is Holy living. Those back under that law never did live Holy. He lives In us. He lives his holy life in us. That is the difference. They never had that under the law; neither do you law keepers of today. Jesus gives us rest to our souls. It is the second heaven. You are still in the first heaven which was done away with, Jesus is our rest. This rest is everyday; not just one day a week. The New Covenant is much more than the old. Jesus said we do not hate; for this Is murder. See, our standards are higher than those of the old. We keep the holy Commandments with the power of the Holy Ghost. But it is not the old law. I know that you cannot see what I am saying; for that old law blinds you. Gal. 3:11 - But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith Vs. 12 -And the law is not of faith: It is a curse: vs. 13-- Christ hath redeemed us FROM the CURSE of the LAW --- see? He REDEMMED us FROM the LAW? How much clearer does it need to be? He said it was a curse; he said It is not of faith; he said It cannot justify anyone to keep it. What more do you need? Our SABBATH is the REST that Jesus GIVES US; IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE DO Vs. 24 - Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. vs., 25 - But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.= ( the law ---we are no longer under the law. If you are under the law, you have not yet come to Christ. The law is bondage: Paul said the same thing. Gal. 4:24 - Which things are an allegory: for these are the TWO COVENANTS; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. ( Now surely you know that this one is the one Moses got= the 10 Commandments)?---which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar ( Hagar and Ismael- the law = bondage= which is Agar= the one from Mt. Sinai) Vs. 25 - For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in BONDAGE WITH HER CHILDREN. If you are under the law you are one of the children of Agar- for you are a ‘child�?of the law= which is bondage. So said the Holy Word of God. (No wonder the law keepers try so hard to discredit the Holy King James Bible | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 8/12/2005 1:41 AM |
| From: joie | Sent: 3/8/2005 10:28 PM | | Love to everyone. I just LOVE this message. Let's keep it on the front page a while longer. Thank God for delivering us from the curse of the LAW. He brought us into His LIBERTY. Joie  The old law is the law of BONDAGE. WHY WHY WHY ...WOULD ANYONE CHOOSE THE LAW OF BONDAGE OVER THE LAW OF LIBERTY. ????????????????????????????????????????????????? | |
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| | | From: joie | Sent: 8/12/2005 1:53 AM |
This is something which just now came to me; it was no on this original thread: | And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. |
| When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. |
See, here that Paul and Barnabas were into a big argument about this question of having to keep the law to have salvation. Then they decided to go to Jerusalem unto the Apostles and elders about this question. They were going to all get together and see what the true answer to this was. Now: | But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. | | And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. | | And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. |
See that certain Pharisees said they must keep the law of Moses. There was a lot of DISPUTING, [arguring] over this matter. Then Peter told how the Gentiles heard the gospel from Him.[Bottf has had lots of disputing over this matter also!] | And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; | | And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. | | Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? | | But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. |
Now see that God put no difference between those Jews and the Gentiles, but gave them both the Holy Ghost. Notice, then Peter said, why tempt ye God, to put a YOKE upon the neck of the disciples, WHICH NEITHER OUR FATHER NOR WE WERE ABLE TO BEAR? Now, look at that. He said none of them had been able to bear this yoke of LAW. So do these 'sabbath keepers' today really believe that THEY can bear it? shows they know not what they are even speaking of. But look at their conclusion to this question: | Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: |
See, here he said this was subverting their souls to tell them they must keep the law of Moses. He said, we gave no SUCH COMMANDMENT. How in this world can so many people over look this and be so deceived??????? |
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| | From:  epe1129 | Sent: 11/24/2007 6:41 AM |
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FREEBORN
For your info, " English" language is almost
identical to the " GOTHIC" language. This was spoken as a major world language
as early as 300 B.C. ( World Book Encyclopedia Vol.7) The New testament was
finished around 100 A.D, so it is feasible to have translated the Scriptures
into Goth ( English ) immediately, to minister to these people.
Even scholars recognize that the Gothic
alphabet [ and Bible ] may have existed before the A.D. 350 edition,attributed
to Ulfilas by secular historian Philostorgius, writing in A.D. 433. ( Bruce
Metzger, The Early Versions, Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1977 pp.376,377, n.4, 5
)
epe |
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| | | From: Dovey | Sent: 6/29/2008 9:14 AM |
I have to disagree with that interpretation on Matthew 11:28. It has nothing to do with the Sabbath DAY. Sure it's talking about a "rest"...a "Sabbath"..but not the Sabbath DAY. The word "sabbath" means rest. However the 4th commandment is talking about the "sabbath(rest) DAY". A day set apart for holy use by God Himself. Matthew 11:28 is explaining that.....We rest in Jesus because we are justifed by His shed blood for the redemption....forgiveness...of SIN. That is what we are resting from. The laboring in sin. We no longer have to deal with the penalty of death...because...Jesus paid that penalty for us. We that are now justified can rest easily from the hardships of sin and freely obey God from the heart! God's commandments/law are neither bondage or grievious. 1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous" God put them in motion for our own good! LOVE DOVEY |
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Dovey, the commandments of God are NOT referring to the ten commandments given by Moses. God's commandments are from eternity. Those ten only came about because of their sins and disobedience to God's laws, which are not the same thing. I admit that very few people have ever been able to see this clear distinction between the LAWS of God and those ten commandments. for instance, how many, 'so-called' law keepers, keep this one: | Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? | | And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. |
Why put so much enphesis on something which was only a SHADOW the true heavenly things, and ignor this HEAVENLY commandment, which is the ONLY ONE WHICH CAN GIVE YOU SALVATION? sTUDY Hebrews 4. God said those people under that ten commandment law NEVER DID ENTER INTO HIS REST. Do you study how Moses said to keep that 'day'? If not, you need to do so. going to church on Saturday is BREAKING THAT DAY'S LAW. You know it is the main thing the Jews accused Jesus of doing = breaking 'their' sabbath day'. He knew it is not the true Sabbath of God. He was not under that bondage. The true Sabbath of God is the baptism of the Holy Ghost. The DAY in Genesis is NOT a day of our weeks. It is a Day of salvation. not a week day. learn the difference. |
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I certainly agree with the title of this thread. |
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| | | From: Dovey | Sent: 6/30/2008 9:53 AM |
Dovey, the commandments of God are NOT referring to the ten commandments given by Moses. God's commandments are from eternity. Those ten only came about because of their sins and disobedience to God's laws, which are not the same thing. I admit that very few people have ever been able to see this clear distinction between the LAWS of God and those ten commandments.<FreeBorn> I'm glad you can see a distinction because many don't. God's Ten Commandments have been in existance even before God wrote them on tables of stone and given to Moses on Mt.Sinai. If they didn't exist from the beginning....Cain murdering his brother wouldn't have been a sin. That is just one example. However, There are Ten commandments and not just 9. Are you asking me if lawkeepers get baptized?? Yes, All who have repented should be baptized. I don't understand why you are even asking me that. What does that have to do with God's Ten commandments? Why put so much enphesis on something which was only a SHADOW the true heavenly things, and ignor this HEAVENLY commandment, which is the ONLY ONE WHICH CAN GIVE YOU SALVATION? sTUDY Hebrews 4. God said those people under that ten commandment law NEVER DID ENTER INTO HIS REST.<FreeBorn> Paul's point to the Hebrews is that the children of Israel did not enter into God's rest because they did not hear God's Word and obey. The illustration is the Sabbath, for the breaking of which both Israel and Judah (as Ezekiel and Jeremiah show) went into captivity. What is so interesting here is that this is written to the first-century church, and it is introduced as an illustration of what they are to do with their lives. Think about this. If the Sabbath had been done away, the illustration was useless. This is one of the strongest proofs in the entire New Testament that the first-century church, the church of the apostles, were still keeping the Sabbath—and reinforcing its keeping by using it as an illustration of the very Kingdom of God, the rest into which we will enter. Far be it from the apostles to say that it was done away! That would be totally ridiculous. Maybe the spiritually blind cannot see that, but we should be able to see it clearly. LOVE DOVEY |
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2co 3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 2co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart. 2co 3:4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 2co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 2co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. The letter means that old LAW. This is clear from the above verses. That LETTER or LAW, kills. IT is DEATH. 2co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: Notice he called what Moses gave them the ministration of DEATH. Yes, DEATH. Moses gave them DEATH OR THAT LAW. It is DEATH. It is not LIFE. No law can give life. So why do you desire again to be back under that old DEATH COVENANT? The above verse CLEARLY SAYS THAT GLORY WAS DONE AWAY. It is still done away. God does not do away with something , the change his mind and bring it back again. It was NEVER GOD’S WAY OR HIS WILL. 2co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? Here Paul speaks of the ministration of the New Testament, of which he said God had made him an able minister. He did not minister Law or death. This ministry has much more glory than the one which was done away. You must just call all of the NT a lie to hang to the idea that NT Christians must GO BACK TO THAT OLD DEATH COVENANT FOR ANYTHING. 2co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. See that he called what Moses gave them, ten commandments, written on stone, a ministration of CONDEMNATION. So it is condemnation to try to serve God under that bondage of OT Law. We do not do away with Sabbath. We know what the TRUE SABBATH IS AND WE HAVE IT IN OUR SOULS. 2co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 2co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Here, again, Paul makes it plain, by repeating it, that the old covenant, given on stone, by Moses, (that ten) was DONE AWAY. How can you keep on denying this and say you believe in God, whose word this is? 2co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 2co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: Now once again, Paul makes it clear that the old covenant, written and engraven on Stone, by God, was ABOLISHED. How can you continue to deny this? Do you really want TRUTH? Of do you just love being blinded? 2co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. Can you clearly SEE the above truth? Reading the old testament blinds people. It is speaking about trying to live by that old law. 2co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Same here--- reading Moses, means going by law, instead of Grace, and you cannot do both. 2co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. This is saying that when your heart turns to the Lord, (Jesus)-- that veil of blindness will be taken away. So is it reasonable then to assume that you will need to go back to that blindness, or veil, after you came into light? Of course not. 2co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. There is no LIBERTY under law. To be ruled over, is BONDAGE. Only in the NT, apart from OT Law, if there any LIBERTY. 2co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. That is showing being changed from that old glory, given under law, the ministration of DEATH, to the glory of LIFE IN JESUS CHRIST. Jo |
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| | | From: Dovey | Sent: 7/1/2008 8:56 AM |
Can you clearly SEE the above truth? Reading the old testament blinds people. It is speaking about trying to live by that old law.<Freeborn> Reading the Old Testament BLINDS people??? What do you think Jesus and the Apostles quoted when they taught the early church??? Matthew 5:17 "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to fulfill them" "Fulfil" is from the Greek word...Pleroo. It means... to render full, i.e. to complete,to make complete in every particular, to render perfect,to carry into effect, bring to realisation,to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be. In other words...Jesus MAGNIFIED the LAW. He taught the true intent of the law and obeyed it as it should be obeyed. Jesus set the example as to how to obey God's Commandments from the HEART. NOT just the letter. Isaiah 42:21 "The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make [it] honourable." DOVEY |
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Are you calling God's word a lie, then? I quoted Scripture. Now if it is God's Word, not one verse can contradict another verse. Agree? Then you need to learn that perhaps that are TWO DIFFERENT LAWS IN SCRIPTURE, AS CLEARLY SHOWN IN ROMANS 7 AND ROMANS 8. Sure Jesus fulfilled that old LAW AND LAID IT AWAY. That was the real purpose, so he could disanull it. He nailed it to his cross and took it out of the way, FOR IT WAS THE ENEMITY. Yes, that was the ENEMITY between the Woman and that old serpent. He took her under LAW, SO HE COULD RULE OVER HER. Jesus took that BONDAGE OUT OF THE WAY AND MADE PEACE. Jesus CHANGED the law. Sure he made God's law honourable..but that is not the law of bondage, written and engraven on stone. If you took ALL OF GOD'S WORD, instead of just a few verse, which you most certainly do not understand, then you might find your way out of that darkness. So are you calling 11Cor.3 a lie? If not, then you tell me what you think it means. I will wait to see your answer. ALSO TELL US, WITH WRITTEN SCRIPTURE, HOW TO KEEP THE SABBATH DAY HOLY. What is the right way to do this thing. give Scripture. not some man's ideas. Do you honestly think that Grace came in , still demanding that we keep law or be KILLED? If so, you have no concept of Grace. Jesus never told anyone to live by that law and still not be under its penelty. that is a made up lie. If you attempt to be justified or live by law then you must also be killed if you disobey it. That has not changed. You must also kill your sheep and offer their blood up to God. that is REQUIRED BY LAW. Heb. 10. You think you 'go to church' on saturday, instead of sunday, and that makes you holy? or means you are keeping God's law. Where did you acquire such a false teaching? Maybe you need to go back and check the source of your beliefs, since it causes you to have to call SO MUCH OF GOD'S WORD A LIE. Mine does not cause me to call any of it a lie. If you say we must still live by the same old law, which Moses gave, written on stone, then you are flat DENYING THAT THE PRIESTHOOD WAS CHANGED.......AND THAT THE LEVITES ARE STILL YOUR PRIEST......NOT JESUS CHIRST.........SEE BY HIS OWN WORD, YOU CANNOT COME UNDER THE PRIESTHOOD OF JESUS CHIRST VIA THAT OLD LAW. ELSE YOU CALL THIS A LIE: | For the priesthood being CHANGEd, there is made of necessity a CHANGE also of the law. | Jo |
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Wonder why you who speak only of one thing, = keeping sabbath, never speak about the other nine commandments? Surely they are much more important.....such as do not kill. do not steal. do not bear false witness against anyone......why do you all not preach on these important things sometimes? All I ever hear from adventist is keep sabbath. and yet they do nothing which Moses commanded concerning how to do this. Why is this? dovey, can you answer these things for us and tell us how to keep that day holy? Sure would appreciate it. Jo |
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| | | From: Dovey | Sent: 7/6/2008 12:31 AM |
Why do the same questions keep repeating? It's like no one reads what the other one posts. All the verses used to try and eradicate the 4th commandment just doesn't work. No one can say that Paul in any of the epistles wrote against God's commandments. No one. The reason people who at least acknowledge God's commandments debate the 4th commandment is because those who teach AGAINST the commandments try to twist scripture to justify their erroneous ASSUMPTION that somehow Jesus came to do away with God's laws. Inspite of the fact that Jesus said..Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil (fulfill of of course as in to MAGNIFY/TO BRING OUT THE TRUE INTENT). The Sabbath Day commandment was NEVER an issue with the early church. If we look at the prophetic Word as history foretold, we will notice that according to Isaiah, the gospel prophet, the new Gentile converts were to observe the New Covenant and to keep the Sabbath (Isaiah, chapter 56). This was to be in the time when the Father's house was not considered for the Jews only (as was the case under the Old Covenant), but when His "house shall be called a house of prayer for ALL people. About A.D. 51, the apostles assembled at Jerusalem to consider the question of circumcision. This was a subject APART from the Ten Commandment Law. Their decision was: "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God; but that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollution of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day" (Acts 15:19-21). The reason for the proposed course was that the newly converted Gentiles could hear the preaching and receive further instructions in the synagogues "every Sabbath day." In other words, the Gentiles did attend services on the seventh day of the week at that time. This is factual history and if more people took the time to really dig out these facts, there wouldn't be so much false teaching on God's Commandments....especially His 4th Commandment to "Remember the Sabbath day". LOVE DOVEY |
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that is right , it was never an issue with the Early church, for they knew it was not a certain day of the week. that is why they did their work seven days a week, why they ministered seven days a week and worshipped seven days a week. they knew that old law was NOT IN GRACE. |
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| | | From: Dovey | Sent: 7/6/2008 4:01 AM |
There is nothing wrong with DOING GOOD on God's Sabbath day. That's not what I was pointing out. Jesus taught that when He healed the crippled man on a Sabbath day. That however when Jesus healed the man...it didn't eradicate the Commandment to "Remember the Sabbath day" DOVEY |
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Dovey, how about commandment one? Now, you tell us exactly what the Word of God teaches on HOW TO KEEP THAT DAY HOLY. We need to know. You seem to think it is so important to tell everyone to keep the 4th commandment.....so tell them HOW. what good is it to say do a thing, if you cannot tell them HOW TO DO IT. |
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