Saved; Let me share similar thoughts with you.  Without my strong faith and hope for the future I would be very out of it right now.  But like you I have a strong religious hope and it keeps me going.   So if it works and makes you life better I am happy for you.   We have enough heart ache due to a child we bore and we don't need to feel alone in this mess which is not of our chosing...and Proverbs says is quite well;

Proverbs 4:16 There are six things that Jehovah does hate; yes, seven are things detestable to his soul: ¹⁷ lofty eyes, a false tongue, and hands that are shedding innocent blood, ¹⁸ a heart fabricating hurtful schemes, feet that are in a hurry to run to badness, ¹⁹ a false witness that launches forth lies, and anyone sending forth contentions among brothers.

doing. 

20 Observe, O my son, the commandment of your father,

Hey,  as Christians we get sucked in so easily to p's plans.  However, in the book of proverbs... the word "fool" means "one who is morally deficient"  that is God's term for a psychopath.  We need to apply the term of "fool" to p's or n's but with a humble attitude because proverbs also say there is more hope for a fool  than one who is wise in their own eyes.  God understands people like this, he said to "shake the dust off your sandals" to people who wouldn't listen.  Why do we as parents then make ourselves martyrs to our kid? I get weary of this never ending mother martyr drama.  Believe me, it hurts, but there is LIFE after them!

Hi Mal...I am not a christian.don't know too much about proverbs and such......

 

do agree with the martyr stuff though....and I too got so sick of it.

Dear Mal-You are right, we do need to be humble. We are all sinners in the sight of the Lord. Only He is Holy. Only through our relationship with Christ can we be declared "righteous."  My P son was brought up in the church, boy scouts, sports,etc, but you would never know he was my son. We tried so hard to love him but he would not let us. I've had him on so many prayer lists, I have begged and pleaded with the Lord on his behalf for many years, but I feel that he has said "No."  I still pray(not often) for His will in P's life. I told my pastor that I have run out of prayers and I no longer know what to pray and that is what he suggested that I say. By the way, I am studying 2 Timothy, and  I have found my P son described there, too. It breaks my heart.  I know the "martyr" feeling well.  The Lord can bring good from all this, however. We must press on!

Praying for someone and them praying for themselves to change is the issue, don't you think so?   As to knowing scriptures I just threw that in to back up the thought that P's are born that way and unless they work at changing there is not progress.

Praying for someone and them praying for themselves to change is the issue, don't you think so?   As to knowing scriptures I just threw that in to back up the thought that P's are born that way and unless they work at changing there is not progress.

I have been a Christian snice forever too and

 

There is this thing called "The Unforgivable Sin

 

I know we can agrue forever about that to - but I think one of the things God can't forgive is (and it's not God's failure - he gave us free will after all and he won't take it back)

 

I think it's the unrepentant - like a kid saying "Everything was fine until your were saved"

 

Tough Love  doesn't take anyone's free will away - yeah?

 

But it does teach people where and when to misbehave - "Which is not here in my house and with my money and my time and abusing my faith"

 

Whic is such a good point I would live to know what your P says when he hears it Bengal Buddy

 

Sparky

The unforgiveable sin?  Well it is not a easy subject and many find it hard to pin down just what that is.....I think one has to understand what true repentance means before they can understand what is unforgivable sin.  Many people have the idea repentance simply means we are sorry for committing a sin...but is that the case?  What the Bible teaches is repentance requires not only the sorry part coming from a deep heart felt sadness but the actually turning around and going in the other direction from that sin...example, stealing:  By making the person you stole from whole again by returning the lost item or the cost and then never stealing again...would be true repentance for that kind of sin...actions are required not just words.  So true repentance is not just the words, I am sorry and going out and doing the same act over and over again and excusing it by saying well I am weak and can't help myself.  There has to be a real effort to change and show a different behaviour and that shows through action.   It is those who do not do this that might commit the unforgivable sin....?????  again we can't read the hearts of those folks and only God will judge what the unforgiveable sin is from examining the hearts of such persons and as humans we should not try too judge others since it is not our job.   We can protect ourselves by understanding that someone is going to continue to harm us and stay out of their way but to decide they are guilty of the unforgivable sin is not our job....nor should it be...s1 

I too am a Christain...raised a preacher's kid actually:>)  That was tough on me!  But in many ways it was a blessing:>)

My Pson is also gay...not only gay, but also a raging queen alot of the time, always pushing us to 'accept' his lifestyle and blaming most of his issues on the fact that we cannot accept that he is gay.  Well, we DO accept that he is gay and that we can't change that.  We don't agree with his lifestyle however because he is also into prostitution (which he also blames on us because we will not provide all the money he needs to survive on his own...pay his rent, bills food etc)  He also has a criminal record for sexually assaulting others...more than once...several times.

   And on top of all that he is a P...which has nothing to do with the gay part of him.   That is the part we cannot deal with.  We keep trying to tell him that if he was a half decent gay person we coould telerate that.  He wants us to do more than tolerate the gay part however, he wants us to be able to completely submerse ourselves in the gay lifestyle along with him.  Like go to gay bars with him and stuff (we don't even go to staight bars...)

Just like because he smokes marajuanna he thinks that in order to prove that we "accept" him we should loosen up and smoke a joint with him.  All his ideas are about corrupting our morals and values, and if we are not as corrupt in our thinking as he is then we are 'judging' him...I don't understand his thinking.

As far as the unforgivable sin, I think that is geared toward those who blastphemy God.  Those who would use Christianity for thier own ends but not really care about Christ at all.  A P could be very capeable of doing this. 

My son often speaks of making his own religion and having others follow him.  It is scary.  So far the ADHD part of him prevents him for really staying on track with any thought for more than a day at a time so he can't focus long enough to start his own cult:>)

I do believe that God can change anyone, but I don't know if he wants to.  I think he gave me my son to keep me humble:>)  Believe me, it is effective...

All in all it is only my faith that everything works to the good of those who believe in Christ that really keeps me sane:>)

Dear Keep-I don't think my P is gay, but very promiscuous. Sounds like you got the "double whammy".The fact that yours is gay does not disturb me nearly as much as all the other things you mentioned. My P son thinks the same way. I would not let him come for Christmas 2006 because he was still smoking marijuana. This was after years of drug problems. He got really mad because he said I was judging him, too! He said, "I have tried to have a relationship with you, but it is just too much trouble. Besides, I hardly know you."  That is the straw that finally broke the camel's back for me.  That's when I decided NC is best.  The idea about your P starting his own religion is not surprising. After all, as my P said, "I follow my own rules."  There is something missing from these kids. All they try to do is manipulate, abuse, and blame others for their own behavior.  We don't need that!

It seems we all can agree on the fact something is missing.   Some of our kids are raging P's and others seem to be less.  But all in all the thing missing in their lives is empathy. 

I could see most P's being promiscuous because sex is a tool that can really be used to get what you want ( if you are female) and if you are male, being gay would have the same affect really.  My son is looking for the rich man who will provide for him the rest of his life.  He is not afraid to tell us that that is what he is looking for.

I am happy though that he is not a girl because I think I would worry so much more if he was!  I like to know that my daughter is safe, even when I am very upset with her.  With him I guess I have hardened myself into trying to convince myself that I don't care but in many ways I do...I just can't tell him that becuase he would ride on that forever!  I think you guys all know what  I mean by that:>)

 

Life would definitely be alot easier if it was just the gay or promiscuity issues!  At least maybe at some level we would be able to relate to them and accept their other more wonderful personality traits...but am I the only one here that cannot find a single thing about this child that I like, or can encourage?  If there were just one positive thing about him maybe it would be a little different...but then you cannot "praise" them for anything either because they are already too big on themsleves to accept praise without taking it to the full brag extreme,   I can't explain it but I am sure you all know exactly what I am talking about:>)

They are all the same arent they?  Isn't it incredible???

Keep-you are right! They are Ps. As far as finding something to praise, that didn't work for my P. He once told me, "When you are encouraging, it is discouraging." There is really nothing we can say because they have "their own reality." I got tired of beating my head against the wall.