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General : I think my son as NPD
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Reply
 Message 1 of 6 in Discussion 
From: themom  (Original Message)Sent: 28/10/2008 10:36 p.m.

I am new to this forum, and I am at my wits end. I have a 12 1/2 year old son, whose father is a classic NPD/Psychopathic personality - I realized this too late, obviously. I left him(with my child) just before my son's 3rd birthday.He has always been "spirited" and I had a few behavior problems with him when he was younger, but I guess I sort of chalked it up to the stress we went through when I left his father and had to live in a shelter for a few months. His "spiritedness" never went away, but we were able to get through the serious behavior problems as he got older. Kindergarten was tough, and he was tested for ADHD, etc at that point. They determined that although he was energetic, he did not have ADHD, and could not really figure out what the deal was with him. He got through the serious behavior problems in grade school, and he was very well liked by the staff by the time he finished grade school.

I will admit that I have not been as harsh of a disciplinarian that perhaps I should have been. Most people tell me I am way too easy. I let a lot of little things go because I knew if I didn't pick my battles, everything would turn into a war. So, I saved the punishments and discipline for things that I considered to be warranted of it. I guess I felt if I didn't pick my battles, my son would hate me because I would always be punishing him, and never just enjoying him and loving him. He very quickly learned how to push the boundaries and push my buttons.

As he has gotten older, he has gotten manipulative and argumentative to the point where I have to physically force him to do things. For example, the other night, I told him to take a shower, and it turned into an hour long battle, complete with me picking him up and carrying him to the bathroom at least twice (mind you he is TWELVE and I am only 4'11). The entire time he is yelling, kicking, screaming at the top of his lungs, calling me names, throwing things at me, and threatening to call 911 on ME if I touch him. He wanted to eat (he had dinner a half hour before) and watch a movie, I told him he could do that when he was done with his shower. He finally grabbed an apple from the kitchen and went into the bathroom saying - "I'm gonna eat, now was that so hard??" My roommate (who was hiding in the other room during the fiasco) told me after the fight, my son was sitting in the bathroom literally laughing at me. His laugh is another thing, it's almost demonic, and he will laugh uncontrollably, and very loudly, at inappropriate times.

The greatest punishment for him is if I take away his cell phone - which is his greatest obsession, but when I try, I have to physically wrestle him to get it from him. Then he will act loving and kind and respectful - until he gets it back. But, if he doesn't get it back when I say he will (if I say I'm taking it, we argue until I give him a definate date that he will get it back if he behaves), then all hell breaks loose again. Everytime I try to tell him to do something, he tries to contridict me, argue with me, and manipulate my words to make it sound like I am the bad person. In the above fight, he is still convinced that I was wrong, because I wouldn't let him eat. Every day I tell him the same things (pick up the living room, take out the trash, do your homework), and it just goes nowhere except straight to hell. He will say "not right now, or I don't want to", and if I push the issue, threaten to take away his phone or his game, then we get into a full blown fight, which he always laughs about in the end. He is very well mannered for everybody else - his friends mothers all adore him, and tell me how helpful and respectful he is when he is at their house. He is popular and doing well at school, and has a ton of friends.

Obviously, sending him to his father is not an option - his dad would probably say "he is better than everyone else, just get the hell out of his way, and let him do what he needs to do." I am a single parent, and unfortunately, he really hasn't had a good strong male role model in his life. I'm sure that is part of the problem, and my fault for being too picky, and not wanting to have another bad relationship.

I really don't know what to do. Everything about dealing with an NPD/Psychopath says "run away quickly and never look back." And I've read that NPD/Psychopathic disorders can't be effectively treated. That's fine for an adult relationship, But, I can't just give up hope on my child.

Has anybody else had to deal with this?



First  Previous  2-6 of 6  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 6 in Discussion 
From: suzanneSent: 29/10/2008 12:27 a.m.
<WBR>I have dealt with this behavior.  It will only get worse.

Number one.  There is no negotiating.  A psychopath doesn't care what your think or your feelings.  Take the dang phone away permanently. Too bad about his fit. He has his fit not because his feelings are hurt because he has none, but because he didn't get one over on you. It's gone and now he knows you mean business.  No you are not being "too mean."  They don't care about too mean. 
Realize that he doesn't love you if he is truly a P.  Now it is about YOUR survival until he is old enough to no longer be your responsibility.

I know this goes against every parental cell we have in our bodies, but once you are victimized enough times by him as he gets older you will understand.  You are at a point now where you can lay the line down in the sand that he won't cross for his own sake.

I am not advocating cruelty toward him, only your survival.  You are responsible to take care of his well being as much as possible, but this does not include being victimized by him.  If you allow him to victimize you, he will only move on to victimizing other people in worse ways as he gets older.  No point in enabling that. At least your conscience will be clean in that respect.

If he is a P he attacks the weak because they are basically cowards.  He is polite at school because he is not in a strong position there. You are the one he finds to be weak.  Your only option now is to be strong.  That requires consistent discipline and consequences for bad behavior.  Take his phone away for good.  Stop taking his fits personally.  He doesn't love or care about you. Realizing that is freedom.  You can continue to love him as long as you accept that it won't be reciprocated.

Harsh words?  You betcha.  It's the only way to come away from these people with intact sanity.


-----Original Message-----
From: Coping with the Psychopath/Narcissist Child <[email protected]>
To: Coping with the Psychopath/Narcissist Child <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 5:36 pm
Subject: I think my son as NPD

-----------------------------------------------------------

New Message on Coping with the Psychopath/Narcissist Child

-----------------------------------------------------------
From: themom
Message 1 in Discussion


I am new to this forum, and I am at my wits end.  I have a 12 1/2 year old son, 
whose father is a classic NPD/Psychopathic personality - I realized this too 
late, obviously.  I left him(with my child) just before my son's 3rd birthday.He 
has always been "spirited" and  I had a few behavior problems with him when he 
was younger, but I guess I sort of chalked it up to the stress we went through 
when I left his father and had to live in a shelter for a few months. His 
"spiritedness" never went away, but we were able to get through the serious 
behavior problems as he got older.  Kindergarten was tough, and he was tested 
for ADHD, etc at that point.  They determined that although he was energetic, he 
did not have ADHD, and could not really figure out what the deal was with him. 
He got through the serious behavior problems in grade school, and he was very 
well liked by the staff by the time he finished grade school.
 
I will admit that I have not been as harsh of a disciplinarian that perhaps I 
should have been.  Most people tell me I am way too easy.  I let a lot of little 
things go because I knew if I didn't pick my battles, everything would turn into 
a war.  So, I saved the punishments and discipline for things that I considered 
to be warranted of it.  I guess I felt if I didn't pick my battles, my son would 
hate me because I would always be punishing him, and never just enjoying him and 
loving him.  He very quickly learned how to push the boundaries and push my 
buttons.
 
As he has gotten older, he has gotten manipulative and argumentative to the 
point where I have to physically force him to do things.  For example, the other 
night, I told him to take a shower, and it turned into an hour long battle, 
complete with me picking him up and carrying him to the bathroom at least twice 
(mind you he is TWELVE and I am only 4'11).  The entire time he is yelling, 
kicking, screaming at the top of his lungs, calling me names, throwing things at 
me, and threatening to call 911 on ME if I touch him. He wanted to eat (he had 
dinner a half hour before) and watch a movie, I told him he could do that when 
he was done with his shower. He finally grabbed an apple from the kitchen and 
went into the bathroom saying - "I'm gonna eat, now was that so hard??" My 
roommate (who was hiding in the other room during the fiasco) told me after the 
fight, my son was sitting in the bathroom literally laughing at me.  His laugh 
is another thing, it's almost demonic, and he will laugh uncontrollably, and 
very loudly, at inappropriate times.
 
 The greatest punishment for him is if I take away his cell phone - which is his 
greatest obsession, but when I try, I have to physically wrestle him to get it 
from him. Then he will act loving and kind and respectful - until he gets it 
back. But, if he doesn't get it back when I say he will (if I say I'm taking it, 
we argue until I give him a definate date that he will get it back if he 
behaves), then all hell breaks loose again. Everytime I try to tell him to do 
something, he tries to contridict me, argue with me, and manipulate my words to 
make it sound like I am the bad person.  In the above fight, he is still 
convinced that I was wrong, because I wouldn't let him eat.  Every day I tell 
him the same things (pick up the living room, take out the trash, do your 
homework), and it just goes nowhere except straight to hell. He will say "not 
right now, or I don't want to", and if I push the issue, threaten to take away 
his phone or his game, then we get into a full blown fight, which he always 
laughs about in the end.  He is very well mannered for everybody else - his 
friends mothers all adore him, and tell me how helpful and respectful he is when 
he is at their house. He is popular and doing well at school, and has a ton of 
friends.
 
Obviously, sending him to his father is not an option - his dad would probably 
say "he is better than everyone else, just get the hell out of his way, and let 
him do what he needs to do."  I am a single parent, and unfortunately, he really 
hasn't had a good strong male role model in his life.  I'm sure that is part of 
the problem, and my fault for being too picky, and not wanting to have another 
bad relationship.
 
I really don't know what to do.  Everything about dealing with an NPD/Psychopath 
says "run away quickly and never look back." And I've read that NPD/Psychopathic 
disorders can't be effectively treated. That's fine for an adult relationship, 
But, I can't just give up hope on my child.
 
Has anybody else had to deal with this?



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Reply
 Message 3 of 6 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknameunknownmsSent: 29/10/2008 5:10 a.m.
Suzanne,

DITTO!!!

That is GREAT advice!!!!


Reply
 Message 4 of 6 in Discussion 
From: themomSent: 13/11/2008 8:30 p.m.
Thank you for you input.  I need to talk to someone, so I'm posting an update here now, just to get it off my chest. 
 
Things have not gotten better.  I took the phone away, disconnected the service, and it is actually getting worse.  The more I try to discipline him, the more he fights back, and then goes in the bathroom laughing at me an calling me names "dummy", "she really thinks shes better than me, what a joke!"  Then he'll switch it up and try to be Mr. Sweetness, and I'll tell him "thank you" when he does something nice, to which he responds "can I get my phone back now" - and I say "No, doing one thing won't get your phone back, you need to change the way you treat people, and I need to see it for more than a day." - "so, how many days" -  "I don't know, however long it takes  maybe never" -  the fact that I don't give him a specific timeline drives him nuts.... he actually tried to write out a contract and have both of us sign it so he could use it to try to figure out what he could get away with and how to manipulate me. We had this argument last night, and I was like "I'm done now, I want to go to bed, please leave my room, good night, I love you..."  he proceded to go to the living room and destroy a beaded curtain that I had hanging in the doorway, and then stomped up the stairs, talking the whole way about "don't talk about me, I can hear you" and stomping loudly on the floor upstairs.  I know he was only doing it because he wanted to continue fighting, so I just ignored it and went to bed.  My roommate was like "you're just going to not do anything about that" (referring to the curtain and the stomping of the floor), and I explained that my son wanted my to react, and to go upstairs and continue the fight, and the only way to get it to stop was to ignore it.   I think he (my roommate) is about ready to move out now because he didn't say two words to me for the rest of the night - just sat there in the dark.  He stays out of the way when I'm dealing with my son, he's not my "boyfriend" or my son's stepfather - just a roommate and my closest friend.  But, when you have a child like mine, you don't get to have other relationships because nobody wants to be around that sort of thing, and the child will drive away any threat they see of losing the attention and control.  He knows and I know that my son needs a man in his life, and I have asked him to help me by providing that sort of male role model and talking to him, but he really, really doesn't like my son very much because of his behavior (even though he loves kids).  
 
He has started acting the same way at school with one teacher in particular.  It seems as though when I started getting harder on him, he started taking it out on her.  She has called me twice to tell me about his disrespectful attitude and smart mouth, apparently yesterday he was asked to leave class, tipped over a desk and slammed the door on the way out. It started because he didn't finish a paper that was due (that I didn't know about), and she told him he was going to fail the class. Of course it's "her fault" because she doesn't like him.  He has asked to be removed from the class and put into another class, which might not be a bad idea, but I don't know if it will solve anything.  I've been trying to call his teacher and counselor at school repeatedly, and have not been able to talk to either of them.  The teacher does call when he gets in trouble, but I've missed her calls and been left voicemails, and then try to call her back and not get any response.  He threatened that he was not going to school today - I called my roommate and he told me that he did go to school ( I leave before him in the morning) - and that he thought that his teacher really just needs to die, and he might have to kill her.
 
I am just so emotionally and physically exhausted right now I can barely think.  Having my roommate there is the only thing that is keeping me sane, another adult to talk to who sees what I'm going through and is on my side, but I know he will be gone soon and then I'll be dealing with this all alone. 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Reply
 Message 5 of 6 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknamefemfreeSent: 15/11/2008 3:02 a.m.
Hi The mom.
 
I have a quote somewhere from Dr. Phil who says to say to children "Big boys don't talk that way."
 
Have you tried to look into Parent Management classes?

Reply
 Message 6 of 6 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknamesparkysmoonladySent: 23/11/2008 9:14 p.m.
Hi there "Mom"
 
You have to get tough
 
"Tough Love" is just that  - I was in  a Tough Love Programme
 
It's a 12 Step Programme and its message to the kid is "We love you but we hate what you are doing so stop doing it or take the consequences"
 
And when they are old enough ' We love you but we hate what you are doing so if you want to do it go and do it somewhere else
 
In your case - you took the cell phone - and had it disconnected - good for you
 
And you do have to pick your battles - so what is important?
 
I had few rules - something like
 
Where what you like to bed but take you shoes off please
 
If you don't shower you will start to stink and no one will want to sit near you - so you shower or get lonely
 
He was about 11 when I said "If you don't change your T-shirt grass will grow under your arms - it worked well - it wasn't long before he came to me crying because he noticed he had under-arm hair.
 
And picking your battles doesn't mean you are being easy on him - you are being easy on yourself and saving yourself for the big battles
 
Keep in touch - all of us here have had to be into Tough Love whether we ever got into a programme or not
 
Sparky
 
 

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