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Have you changed your mind about wanting to work on us?

If you have, then there isn't anything to talk about...and no need for either of us to use the gas or time to make a trip to do any talking here or there.

I just sense a change in you...something in your voice and not holding me as tight as you were before, and I need you to be honest about it and just let me know here and now, ok.

And if so, then we can both let completely go and move on.

If you are not wanting me back anymore... I need to know Robin. Please. I've asked you in the past to just be honest with me.... and I need that from you now about this. I can handle it... I won't fall apart. Just please be honest so I know what to do with my feelings on my side too.

Laurie

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Hi.... I'm back home, and had hoped you would have had time to read and reply to my last letter.

It's a simple answer Robin... just a yes or a no. That's all I need. No explanation or discussion is needed. Please...

Here's the letter again, you can answer on this one. You either do or don't want to keep trying to fix us. Please let me go if you have changed your mind, and don't keep me hanging on.

Do you want to quit working on us? Do you want to end things? Yes, or No. I've got to get my head focused one way or another... and I can't do it till I know where I stand with you.

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hello, sorry it's taken me so long to get back with you. You keep saying you sense a change in my voice, I don't hold you as tight. That goes for you too. You didn't seem happy to see me, you didn't want to hold me. I have made alot of mistakes, mistakes that I don't think you will be able to forget or forgive, which I totally understand. I messed up, and I am sorry. I release you from me, so you can get on with your life. I want the best for you, for you to be happy and successful, in what you want to do with your life. Please forgive me, and try not to hate me.

Robin

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Thank you for replying, although, you avoided specifically answering my question.

In all that you wrote, you could not come out and say exactly what YOU want or don't want. You could not be honest about what you do or do not feel...for or about me or us, and that makes me sad for you Robin.

And I explained in the last letter that I have been hurting about Marcy... afraid. I was distant so as not to mislead you that we would be 'together' in that way.. is all. The responsibility to make me feel reassured and safe with you.. was yours, not mine.

I only know of 1 mistake you made in January... so I have to wonder what "alot" refers to, but no need for any info on them.

I've recently begun to learn that a lot of what I went through in the last year, was sadly... menapause problems. And maybe things could have been different if I had realised it sooner . I don't know.

I don't hate you. I wasn't lying when I said I love you. I did for 30 years, and I still do.

I'm apparently just not what you really need or want right now and you have moved on.

It never had to come to this... just a little bit of fight from you to keep us, back in September would have been enough. But you never did or said anything until February. And, since I was basically the injured one after what you did, .. it was your job to convince me every time we were together that you had fully chosen me. You didn't do that... so I began to suspect that things had changed for you.

I release you from me... ?

Thanks.. but I did not ask you to do that. I wanted to work things out.

I only asked you to say what you wanted, to be honest and admit wether you do or do not want me anymore. Why it's so difficult for you to do that, I have no idea.

"I've changed my mind Laurie and I don't want you and I don't want to stay married to you."

... see,... easy, plain and simple. That's all you had to say.

So... since I've been let go of by you... I can now refocus my thoughts and plans, and stop thinking about moving back down there, and get on with my life up here. So, thank you for that. And you can freely now go back to Marcy I guess. Or whoever...

Go ahead and get the divorce drawn up... with the $300 a month for 18 months, and the $20,000 you offered from your retirement. I accept those terms. Nothing else to do now. It's fully and totally over. It's done. No more chances.

I'll tell the kids.

Good Bye,

Laurie

------------------------------------------------------------------

hello again;

the decision had nothing to do with me wanting to be with anyone else. It had to do with what I think you want and need, freedom. Freedom to be you, freedom to do what you want, freedom from me. I want only the best for you, and pray to God you get it. I mean this with all my heart, I want you to be happy. Keep in touch with me, and when I send you an email or call, I hope you won't ignore me. Take care.

Robin

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It's totally over this time Robin.

Except for dealing with financial issues, taxes, bills etc, or issues of getting the divorce settled... or a major emergency with the kids or Ethan, or your mother... I don't want any other kind of contact with you.

I'm not your enemy,... I'm not angry,... I just need this to be a clean and complete break.

And thanks, but, it wasn't your job to decide for me what I need or dont' need. That's my responsibility and choice to make for myself.

Again... good bye.

I don't think I ever sent this exact version??..

From: Grace

Sent: 3/5/2007 10:14 AM

Good Morning "My Love"....

I think about you and "us" every day. I re-read your letter occassionally... and remember what it feels like when we are both happy to be together. Why is it so difficult for us to keep it like that?

I daily think about how it all fell apart...and I also daily wonder what went wrong, what I did wrong to make you so unhappy with me, and made you want someone else. And I wonder each day if it is possible for us to get all the issues discussed and out in the open so we can talk about and work through each thing separately and honestly.

I was so happy that you said Marcy is out of the picture... that you now only have occassional business/ printing conversations with her...and nothing more is going on with her.

I took it to mean you are not 'friends' anymore on a personal level... because I could not handle that. Is she really "out of the picture".. as in fully out of your mind Robin????

Every time we've been together I came so close to breaking down and crying... picturing you doing to her what you were doing to me...hurting so inside.

Your words below are so loving.... yet I'm still so afraid. Not yet able to fully trust you.

I keep remembering that back with Wanda you changed your mind back and forth a few times about her... told me it was over, told me it was me, told me you changed your mind and wanted out, told me again it was me...

So I have to wonder if you might be doing the same thing this time.... still a bit uncertain...unsure... still wanting to go back and be friends with Marcy and talk to her, see her, date her on a personal level, not have just occassional business discussions. Are you Robin? Is she really totally out of your mind on a personal level?

Since you said you wanted us back together, we have not had much time to really sit down and talk about things. And we still need to do that... a lot.

Everytime I've been down there I'm afraid she is in the store or restaurant where you and I are at... and you and her are looking at each other... and I don't know it because I don't know what she looks like. White? Hispanic? Blonde? Brunette? Short hair? Long Hair? Skinny? Tall? Short?

Letter I was going to e-mail Sunny tonight.. but decided to put it here instead...

Hang in there. The good stuff is coming!!!

I'm sitting here crying my eyes out because you have no idea how much I needed to hear those words up there that you wrote.

It's full moon week, plus this monday will be our 32nd anniversary... so it's a very emotional time and I've been pretty topsy-turvy to say the least. I hurt so much on some days... and I wasn't at all prepared for there to be any pain. I was too happy to be getting out in the beginning... so I never expected to feel any sorrow or sense of loss. So I'm not handling it very well, even though when the tears subside and the dust settles I come back to my senses and know for sure that the divorce is the right thing for both of us. Why does it hurt to lose someone you don't even want??? I totally do not understand that.

He and I are both 55.. and he's dated some women in their 30's Sunny.... Do you have any idea how old and washed up and unwanted that makes me feel.... I look in the mirror and see my old self looking back and I know that no man will ever love me or want me, because they are like Robin.. going after the good looking young things that make them feel like a new stud again. Lucky for me I really enjoy being by myself. I just never really faced being "old" before now... and it does not feel so good.

Plus, I don't have any personality to offer a man. I have no career or education, and just like Robin and I never had anything to talk about.. but him and his world.... I realised if I was to date, I have no ability to carry on a decent conversation with him. No reason for him to be at all interested in me. I'd be so terribly boring to him. So... feeling a bit washed up and disposable these days in that department.

It was ok until February.. when he said he changed his mind and wanted me back, he had made a mistake. I was at a place I was willing.... and it allowed me to open up the parts of my feelings that I had totally closed off. So that's why I'm hurting now. I feel it all, including the good things too. But, one night when I asked him.. he confessed that he had slept with someone... so that made me hold back some... hoping to talk things out etc. He wanted a quick fix, no answering for anything.... and so, after a little while, we ended up calling off the attempt to reconcile. Had a most romantic Valentines night though... best in 32 years. Go figure.

So...it's been a really, really rough last few weeks... and my lease is up at the end of April. My meal ticket that I've really enjoyed having is also over ... so have to go to work now. And for the first time I'm looking at a life really and totally on my own. Good in so many ways.. but so scary in others.

So your words were like a word from God... a life raft thrown to a drowning person. Who has been struggling to stay afloat.

The tears have subsided now, I'm feeling calmer. This is going to be a rough week for sure....

reposting this to move it to different place in the thread for print out..

From: Grace

Sent: 2/3/2007 1:06 AM

Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:51:54 -0800 (PST)

Re: Thank you again

To: "Marcy Bergen" [email protected]

Hey back,

I REALLY enjoyed last night too! Hope to have many more....you are special.

Robin

Marcy Bergen <[email protected]>

I told him tonight on the phone that I want to come back home and try one more time.

He said no.

And I know you are wondering why on earth would I do such a thing???

Because..... after the last couple of days, I suddenly saw tonight that I've changed enough, and grown strong enough as an individual in the last six months to realise it really could be different, and better... especially with me working at the job down there that has already been offered me... and it suddenly hit me tonight that I wanted to try... "one more time". That's all.

I've always regretted that the separation took place without any effort on either side to discuss things first. And that it took place out of my depression and anger and menapausal / full moon / emotional state of mental mess.

And he implied from the very beginning that it was what he wanted as well, .... yet, he said it I tore him apart when I left.... and he didn't want to risk going through that again. He didnt' want to stay married. He wanted to go through with the divorce.

I cried almost the whole time... full of emotion.

He kept saying.. ."I don't think you can forgive and forget"... and I finally told him, to be up front and tell me what HE does or does not want... not what I can or can't do.... and that' s when he finally owned up that HE didn't want to try again.... at least not now. And when I asked him softly, and hesitantly if there was someone else... he said.. "Could be. But like I said before, I'm not going to answer anymore questions about that... ".

I cried and contemplated making the call for quite a while before I actually did it... trying to correctly gauge my thoughts, feelings, and motives... because I was determined not to do it for the wrong reason.... which would have been out of weakness, like in times past. And when I sifted through things and knew for sure I wasn't just "running scared" as in times past, I made the call, and left a message telling him how I felt. I was actually surprised he called back as soon as he did.

Before I called, I prayed to God and asked, no, begged Him, that if our getting back together was not the right thing then to please don't let Robin take me back. That that would be all the sign I needed.... and I got it.

Am I ok now?

Yes. Because, it really is true what I told him on the phone... I was not doing it out of any kind of fear, or doubt, nor weakness or insecurity.

And while it hurt to suffer the full consequences of my past actions, and the things I had written him... changing my mind back and forth... writing e-mails and saying things that hurt him.... I now feel a "peace". It's been done, the hand has been played.

Yes, I cried.... and I'll cry more I'm sure.

Facing our mistakes does not feel good... and paying the price for them does not feel good either. Hurting ourselves is always worse than when someone else hurts us. Learning the lessons from our own wrong actions is part of growing up, and I've always had my mind set on doing that over the last few years of my life.

Truth be told... he's been married to a very mentally unstable child for the last few years. And I totally understand his "take" on things.

The state of mind I am in now, after all these months of getting out of the mental fatigue and weariness I was in that drove me out in the first place,,,, us that before it really ended.... I owed it to myself, and him and my family to put myself on the line, and be willing to put forth the effort to "do it better, and do it right", as a more grown-up and mature woman, and not a needy, dependent child.

Too little, too late. And I'm ok with that. I laid my cards on the table, I walked in truth... (more so than him obviously, but again, he doesn't know what I know...).... and he folded.

I have not lost anything.

As I told him on the phone.... this time I didn't "need" to come back, and I wasn't wanting to come back out of any weakness or fear or anything like that. And as I was saying those words on the phone.. I felt so full of strength and confidence as I said them... no tears at all. Just an up-front declaration. And that felt good... because the words were totally true on my part. I am strong, and I have a life.. and I don't "need" to go back to him. And that inner realisation felt really good.

We can't always get what we want.

I've never been good with that life lesson. For most of my life I did whatever it took to get what I wanted, one way or another. (most often by aiming low enough to make sure what I wanted was within reach of getting).

This time... I did not.

And the personal growth I'm celebrating from tonight's experience, is that I'm ok without getting what I wanted! I can handle it.

And I finally "get it"... that life is still going to be ok when I don't get my way.

It's not the end of my world when things don't go my way. All my life, my inner child fought that truth tooth and nail.... in total terror of not getting her way about something. Deep pain was always felt. I always felt so shattered when things would not work out 'right'.

I don't feel that. I'm ok.

I do believe I really did "grow up" tonight, for the first time in my 55 years on this earth. And I'm proud of all I have been through, and all the personal inner work I have done that got me to this place.

I'm ready to go "forward" now... as a changed person, and I'm ready to live life differently now, as an adult.

A lot of the things "wrong" in Robin, and in my marriage.... were my doing. Not my 'fault' ... but my doing, by my being a weak/needy child and not handling things in a mature, grown-up way.

A lot of his "faults".... while real,... did not have to be as "bad" as they were, if he had had a grown woman to have an adult relationship with. He pretty much didn't have a "wife" in many ways. Not really. And that was never his fault. He didn't force me to be an immature, needy child. He didn't use force to deny me the ability to 'grow up' and be strong. I did that to myself. He had his own areas he needed to 'grow up' in also... and both of us hindered the other person's growth in one way or another over the years.

So.... now, I have a job down there if I want it. And I do. I want to move back down there.... and be close to my daughter and Ethan as well.

I can handle living down there. Even if he re-marries, which I know he will. I'm ok with that. When I left, I ran away... and I left in fear. I don't have any need to live that way anymore. I don't feel that way anymore. There isn't anything there for me to be afraid of. And, he said he would be perfectly fine with me living down there...it wouldn't bother him, and he knew Ethan needed me.

The job I was offered is at the teacher-supply store that I love so much. When I was talking to her Wednesday she said I could start that day...lol. Pay me every week or even every day,.. she would hire me as a 'contractor' and pay me in cash. Which would be really nice.

But the best part of it all... I'd be learning from her how to run a retail business, and I'd get educated on suppliers, how to order merchandise... and everything else I need to know to one day run my own business. I'm "ready" to work there... the thought of it feels really good. The strong and confident person I am today... is ready to work there. She wanted to hire me back before we moved into the house, and I was not in the right mental frame of mind for it then.

I wrote this last night on my S & R group, but deleted it just now to put over here instead...

From: Grace*

Sent: 3/30/2007 11:05 PM

I told him tonight on the phone that I want to come back home and try one more time.

He said no.

And I know you are wondering why on earth would I do such a thing???

Especially after that last post up there...

Because..... as all the emotions kept bubbling to the surface today, and after the last couple of days, and facing the "end"... I suddenly saw myself in a different way tonight,... and realised that I've changed enough, and grown strong enough as an individual in the last six months to realise our relationship and marriage really could be different, and better... especially with me working at a job down there that has already been offered me... and thinking about it all, it suddenly hit me tonight that I wanted to try... "one more time".

That's all.

I cried almost the whole time... full of emotion.

Am I ok now?

Yes. Because, it really is true what I told him on the phone... I was not doing it out of any kind of fear, or doubt, nor weakness or insecurity.

Yes, I cried.... and I'll cry more I'm sure.

Truth be told... he's been married to a very mentally unstable child for the last few years. And I totally understand his "take" on things.

Too little, too late. And I'm ok with that. I laid my cards on the table, I walked in truth... (more so than him obviously, but again, he doesn't know what I know...).... and he folded.

I have not lost anything.

We can't always get what we want.

This time... I did not.

And the personal growth I'm celebrating from tonight's experience, is that I'm ok without getting what I wanted! I can handle it.

And I finally "get it"... that life is still going to be ok when I don't get my way.

I don't feel that. I'm ok.

I'm ready to go "forward" now... as a changed person, and I'm ready to live life differently now, as an adult.

A lot of the things "wrong" in Robin, and in my marriage.... were my doing. Not my 'fault' ... but my doing, by my being a weak/needy child and not handling things in a mature, grown-up way.

I know what I know .... about both myself and him, and I can now accept the end with peace, and dignity, and no regrets on my part.

I'm ok with it ending... because I now know I have what it takes to make it work,... and I also have shown I have the guts and strength to be willing to do the work, .. for the right reasons .... and I was capable of being honest about my mistakes and feelings and to forgive and forget and try again.

It is not ending because I "threw it away" on a childish whim. And knowing that makes it possible for me to now be able to hold my head up high, and not feel any regret or shame about anything... most especially, my self.

It ends now ... with me able to feel ok with "me". I messed up, screwed up, and grew up in the process. I count that all as gain, not loss.

So...now.... I will decide wether to stay here another six months, or move back down there. I have a job waiting for me. And he said he's totally ok with me living down there also. And I no longer feel any fear about anything connected with my living down there. Not even seeing him with her. The thought of it doesn't bother me.

However... it's also not "necessary" for me to move down there. I have freedom and flexibility about it all...

If I choose to stay here, I can see Ethan more often by going to his dad's... and I can drive down there occassionally to see my daughter as well... so moving there isn't a "must".

The job however at the teacher supply store would be great for me... including getting the training that will enable me to run my own store later. Not to mention a possible good future customer base as well in meeting the teachers that shop at the store. And it would be so much better than working at Walmart. Straight days, closed on Sundays... privately owned store, the owner would be my boss, ...known her for a while now from shopping there, a relaxed fun atmosphere, total flexibility.... all that is missing is some place to live.

So... lots to think about.. and do this month. Stay or go.... I have got to get this mess I've created cleaned up. I know the 'direction' I'm going to go "work wise" now.. and so much of the stuff I have here that I would use setting up a 'home office'... I don't need right now. And it is going to get repacked better, and go back to storage. I'm going to be focusing on putting much of everything here into storage and just have the basics. Even if I stay, I will work a regular job and not mess with all the other for a while.

What a day, what a night. I do believe I will sleep really well tonight. It's been a long 6 months... and yet again, I can say I've made it though in 'victory'.... a personal growth victory. And from the beginning... that has always been my main and #1 goal of it all. So I have accomplished what I set out to do in myself when I moved out. And I'm proud of myself for that.

From: Grace*

Sent: 5/16/2007 10:50 PM

Ok..... it's time for an emotional update.....

(and I need to just get some stuff out... you don't have to read if you don't want to..

)

I'm in a very scary place.... the place where I will feel the worst emotional pain of anything I have felt so far... and what I've already felt...felt like it would cut me in two at the time.

I know it's been difficult to understand my going on about loving him. At times I've had trouble understanding it myself... yet, the feeling of love is real.

However.... another feeling is starting to come to the surface.. and it makes me understand why I clung so desperately to the love side of my emotions.

Feeling the love, focusing on just the love... kept me safe from the anger I feel. And the anger is starting to push it's way up to be acknowledged... and it frightens me. I can get really violent when I'm angry.... I can get evil when I'm angry. At least, I have in the past. Having gone through some more of the process of becoming more mature..... maybe I'll be able to handle the expression of the anger in a more mature way as well... without going off the deep end.

A few times in the last week I started to think down a certain line of thinking about him and his character and how I was or was not treated by him.... and when I do that, something in me goes into panic mode, and I start almost hyperventilating.... and force myself to switch my train of thought to a different path. I hyperventilate because I sense the anger... and feel it creeping out gradually. And it scares me.

Part of me does not know if I will be able to survive to really really REALLY face the "ugly" truths about him.... the un-watered down truths, without the sugar coating I give them with my own self-recriminations.

I keep thinking if he had just at least waited a few months, and until after the divorce was final to start dating around and get serious "later"..... maybe it wouldn't have hurt so much. I just keep going back to the one repetitive thought..... of how quickly he was willing and able to completely get over our years together. Ending it isn't the painful part.... I could handle that fine if it was done in a normal way. It's his fast willingness to feel that love that was for me, for someone else. It's the fast ability to quickly be completely over me, over us, and to have moved on.

I keep wanting to take it "personal".... and yet I k now it is not a personal definition of me. It really is only a definition of him. Yet the pull is there to do it anyway.

Because it hurts so much.... worse than anything else he's ever done that hurt me in our years together. And worse than any pain I have felt in all of this so far.

I'm fighting with everything I have inside me to stay 'nice', to stay a 'lady'... and to not allow myself to be or to play the 'victim'.

And it's easiest to do that if I focus on loving him.

When the anger starts coming out.... I think all kinds of horrible and sometimes vile thoughts. And I have to force myself to say "no" to them, and shut them off and refuse to be that kind of person. In the beginning, I even had thoughts of killing them.... just like we see on the news all the time. And what amazed me about that particular thought at the time was how normal and easy it seemed to be able to do. No rage. No anger. Just the feeling it was justified. And I had no qualms at all at the time about doing it.

All these years of hearing reports on the news of those kind of things I never could comprehend what would make a person do such a thing. Now I know. Emotions can be very very dangerous. Something in the brain really does 'snap' when those kind of thoughts take hold. There is this coldness... a total lack of feeling, a lack of emotion. It would seem that it was out-of-control rage that leads a person to do a killing of that kind. I found out it is the exact opposite. It's when the pain gets so intense that all emotion is shut down... that the darkest thoughts come to the surface.

So that is why I am afraid of the anger. Yet, I know I must feel it, and release it out of my system for true and complete healing to take place.

The other safety valve I have is directing the anger towards myself... focus on all the things I did wrong, and not the things he did wrong. Let myself take all the blame, bear all the weight of being wrong, doing wrong, and of being totally at fault for his finding someone else to be happy and in love with... instead of me. Making myself the bad guy defuses the anger... waters it down... and turns it into feelings of guilt and shame instead of anger. Those emotions are easier to control and easier to handle and deal with.

A woman can only bear so much pain though.... and carrying the full weight of the pain of the end of the marriage....on my own shoulders only... is not good, is not right, and is not healthy.

So... that leaves only one thing left..... face the ugly truths I've avoided till now... and feel the ugly anger I've avoided till now.

And he's making it easier to do with each passing day and week.

He's started sleeping over-night at her house this week .... and is getting to be 'family' with her kids. That makes me angry.

However, the anger really started coming out on Mother's Day.

He called to wish me happy M.D... and in the conversation I asked if she had any kids... because our kids will have to get used to having step brothers or sisters.

Come to find out that her oldest, a daughter, is the same age as my daugther..... and she has an older boyfriend that knows my son and my son's friends.

That made me see red big time.

It was painful enough to lose my husband to her.

But knowing she was also connected to my son's life... and another part of my personal life.... about killed me inside and I fell apart pretty bad for a while.

I felt like I was losing "everything"... and not just a husband. I felt like she was taking even more of my life... and not just my husband.

And that day, something in me... died. It was the fight to hold on to loving him that began to die... and anger found an open doorway. Ever since then... it's been fighting to come all the way out.

I have no words to explain the depth of emotion that came from knowing she "has" another part of my life... through my son's friend. It kills me. I always had a special place in my heart for this particular friend of my son's.... they were in a band together for years. And I have lots of wonderful memories and feelings about that time in my son's life. I don't want to have to share that with her too! I told my son about it and he said he does not really even have much to do with that friend anymore.... implying it's no big deal. But that's not the issue for me. It's just her being "connected" to yet another part of MY family and my life that just makes me feel "threatened" in some way.

And I know the solution. I know the answer. Let go, and get my own new life. Believe me... I know that is what I need to do, and it's what I want to do.

And it's what I will do... after I get moved, and after the divorce is final and our ties are permanently cut... and I am then legally, as well as morally and biblicall free of the marriage.

In the meantime..... I have to stop running away from the ugly truths... and face reality, and live in reality.... and let the anger be felt, expressed, and released out of me.

Jeni.... I'm sure going to have a good use of my time alone in the car for the 20+ hours on the way to your house. I should just about have it all out by then... you reckon???

I may not be able to talk too much when I first get there... I may be hoarse from screeming out my anger for a 1000 miles or so.

In the meantime.... I'll just have to keep it under control for a little bit longer.

And do a whole lot of journaling and praying...

. And get to a councilor soon... because I need some professional help with this. I also saw in todays paper dwon there that there is a support group for people separated and divorced. So I'll be checking into that.

I'll survive. I'm determined to survive. I just was not at all prepared for it to be the way it's been. Spending time with Ethan and my daughter is going to be my main life-lines.. until I get more of my own life going. Thoughts of Ethan spending the night with me, and my taking him to the beach is what I hold desperately to.... as a life-line to "happy".

Robin wants us to be "friends"... but for me, that's not going to really be possible after the divorce is legally final. Because I know he only wants to be friends... so that he comes across as still being the 'good guy'. He does not at all like to be 'wrong'. And so he's flying high emotionally right now.... no attacks from a crazy x-wife.. and nothing for him to feel guilty or bad about... he's just "Mr. Wonderful" all around in everyones eyes... especially his own, because he's being so nice to me... that makes him a "good guy".

Ok... I've rambled enough!...

... I'm going all over the place now.

I do believe I need to get to bed.

At least I'm not feeling the anger threatening me anymore.... I've talked it out of my system... this time..

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