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Witan© : Something spiritual TheBMan_ : Empathy? Witan© : sure bman Witan© : Empathy, Empathy is a funny thing Witan© : So as always i like to start with some definitions to get us all on the same page which naturally smooths things along Lets start with empathy number one, this is normal empathy, basically the ability to sympathize with someones feelings on an intimate level, this empathy is not a product of psychic ability What occurs here is someone goes through a physical or emotional experience and the person showing empathy recalls (conciously or unconciously) an experience that is a great deal similar to the sufferers experience and in effect re-experiences their own, in sympathy with the sufferer so lets call it simple empathy, is profound and intimate sympathy Witan© : now lets compare Witan's idea with teh dictionary intellectual or emotional identification with another, websters new world dictionary whereas sympathy is defined as sameness of feeling, and several other wonderful definitions so my common parlance isnt in exact aggreeance with the dictionary which is not at all uncommon with modern language but I am betting noone here cares about empathy or simpathy in its most basic from we here are all interested in the psychic ability to feel other peoples feeelings and identify them etc but to be honest, unless you were born with the ability naturally un guarded, or your childhood did not stick the ol' veil infront of it you are going to have to learn empathy, and afterwhich in panic learn how to not do it hahahaha,..... or you may have to unlearn how to not do it which is as close to truth as we can get lets take a brief hiatus over toward star trek the next generation shall we i love side trips So in that show that counsellor is an empath, however her race is telepathic/empathic.... she is just a lowly half breed\ but it does use some very valuable little clues toward realk empathy notice when troy is using here empathy in a focused fashion she physically reacts maybe holds her stomach etc this is a key between empathy and telepathy you feel the other persons emotions, and it can be a sickening feeling this brings us to why mention simply empathy because simple empathy is where you ought to start our fictional friend had a life time of empathy to get used to feeling others feeling and not losing it we as kids were so overwhelmed by the feelings/thoughts of others we shut down that part of us or at least muffle the hell out of it cause its so damn loud So if'n you have an interest toward learning to be empathic or increasing your empathy, then you are best advised to explore simple empathy, get used to your own feelings and your bodies emotional histroy, get used to re experiencing and investigating your own pain, get used to observing these internal pains with a detached eye so that you dont overly react or become involved This effects ones ability to understand the underlying emotions An excellent place to start is acting, training also going and getting a counseling trainer or seeing a psychologist are excellent starting points for develoiping empathy without going insane so there is a perrty intro any questions on empathy? I glazed over alot so shoot away Witan© : excellent TheBMan_ : I think I missed the class on blocking it when I was young I have a hard time turning it off Maiden81 : how would one go insane exactly witan? Witan© : lol Witan© : it does happen to many B, my best advice know thy self Witan© : Maiden, empathy without dteachment or control becomes an emotinal rollercoaster, the feelings of others cause you to feel this leads to radically and constantly changing feelings depending on the environment CrystaBlue1 : can this cause you to become physically ill? Maiden81 : wait...so we aren't exactly detaching the feelings we have...just the added emotions we may feel with a person? Witan© : in a less crowded world this wouldnt be so bad here though it runs hell with your system the constant overload of others feelings runs one through anger sadness etc it all gets maginified and sped up which leads to burn out or medical care Ideally you want to do both, detach from your own and others feelings and make choices about what you wish to feel and what and to what use you shall put these feelings This is an extensiion of knowing the self, empathy functions by modifying your own feelings Maiden81 : right Witan© : if you detach from the feelings of others but not your own you put a wall up preventing empathy from passing cleanly moon_song® : kind of like bi polar Witan© : I do not know moon but ill trust your word on it Maiden81 : bi polar is when your out of whack completely..lol Witan© : im not tewrribly familair with the inner wrokings of bi polar Witan© : i woudlnt go that far maiden Maiden81 : i don't believe its similar, because bipolar experiences dramatic highs and lows only controlled by medications Witan© : only maiden are you certain? Maiden81 : well..no..but i learned a little about it Maiden81 : but i do apologize if i sounded insincere Witan© : many mental difficulties especially anxiety related disorders are more of a product of ones own misplaced psi abilities than modern medicine accepts but often over time without intervention medication can become the only cure Maiden81 : its also genetic witan TheBMan_ : What do you mean by misplaced psy abilities? Witan© : and many genetic disorder are produced within the parents and grand parents via many number of internal and external influences AquaRose�?: yes...my mother and my mothers parents have been bi polar, each of them hitting their most difficult times sometime when they come out of adolescence AquaRose�?: ive got it also Witan© : Ie Add Adhd has been linked to alcholism in previous generations Witan© : B the improper use of psy abilities, such as badly developed empathy can cause disorders of the mind by burning pathways through improper use TheBMan_ : Ahh. this reinforces what I've recently come to believe.. thank you. Witan© : as such behaviours become more and more frequent in more and more people the changes begin to take on the role of mutation, as this continues generation after generation the outcome can be genetic changes, which in turn can lead to brith disorders that are aa response to learned behaviour Witan© : although i have not read this it does follow standard philosophy with a couple leaps not allowed in modern psychology ie that psi exists lol Witan© : so where there anymore questions before we move on? TheBMan_ : Do you have any suggestions on where one can learn to develop emapthy into a more controlled ability? Witan© : where?, personally id advise a traditionally taught kung fu Witan© : it'll teach some good stuff lol, aikido AquaRose�?: what about shaolin? Witan© : anything that deals with recognizing and interpreting intent TheBMan_ : ok thank you. Witan© : the reason i mentions this is i believe feeling and interpreting intent to be a much cleaner way of handle empathy but also the discipline will help manage ones one emotions, it has so many advantages over just trying to hone ones empathy Witan© : there is also a new system developed in the US which i have heard many good thinsg about taht might be worth looking into, hoshinjutsu, it deals heavily with energy and esoteric principles Witan© : and I am a fan of Glenn Morris' writing so ther ya go lol Witan© : i must go get more water Witan© : then i will return intense_female : Witan I have a Q for you Witan© : yes intense intense_female : you often speak about psy stuff making you go insane intense_female : no intense_female : about sanity Witan© : oh then ask however ya want, dont worry about the wording just spit it out' intense_female : last week i had a night that i just wasnt me, not at all.... i woke up the next day as though i had been drunk, and remembering what i did now.. i keep feeling this edge Witan© : ok, have you ever done any heavy drugs? intense_female : and i can almost slip into dream state while awake, like i'm slipping and sliding intense_female : E intense_female : a few times Witan© : have you recently lost weight? intense_female : L like 1x but never tripped intense_female : not much, nah Witan© : ok Witan© : are you worried about this incident? intense_female : not particularly, but.... you often talk about sanity and psy stuff Witan© : yes i do intense_female : is there a line? Witan© : yes intense_female : i'm not OUT of control, but its like being lucid then being in reality Witan© : i believe you but it doesnt matter intense_female : and i can control it when i see it Witan© : there is a line and there is a danger, but where the line is is not something i can or will comment on really... cause lets be honest who the f knows..... I dont claim to be sane and i try not to claim to be insane too often lol intense_female : thats what i needed to know.. if it was some sort of phase of psy development or if it is in fact the edge Witan© : the important things is imparting that there are dangers inherent in all this fun parlor tricking Witan© : so its important to monitor your progress to keep notes or have a mentor or sensai or guide who is there to help, it is imporatnt that you question these guides, cause me for instance sure i teach but i am going to lie to you. TheBMan_ : huh? Witan© : its up to you to know the difference its part of the learning intense_female : well i figured that knowing where the edge was and recognizing it was a good sign intense_female : lol Witan© : once you take for granted that the ice is frozen is when you hit the spot that aint froze enough Witan© : it is intense, and its your line and it will change, limits can expand and move... it keeps the game fun intense_female : lol, or interesting at least Guest_clara : but i think it will always be there..... Guest_clara : that fine line.... Witan© : so do i clara, cause i've yet to see different in this world, but i am young who knows hahahahaha Love_Thy_Neighbor : stay between the lines for they are your freinds Guest_clara : i think it makes you more aware of what you shld not do, so your spirit is not further corroded Witan© : that is an interesting viewpoint Kellog_bluff : the lines are your friends? Witan© : im curious what you mean by corroded? Guest_clara : its hard to explain, its more a sensation for me at this stage... Witan© : I see Kellog_bluff : define "friends" Witan© : so love the lines are your friends what do you mean by that, extrapolate please? Guest_clara : its probably recognising the difference between learning more or moving into insanity Guest_clara : or bad times.... Guest_clara : which i have had enough of.... Kellog_bluff : you are fearful of insanity? Guest_clara : yes.... Guest_clara : it was a good way of explaining what i feel Witan© : how bout i try and clarify insanity in my rather limited worldview, insanity is one o' teh big nasties over yonder hill in this road so many call the path Love_Thy_Neighbor : weird, i mean no disrespect...plz continue Witan© : you will face it, along wit all dem odder big nasties Witan© : the neat things about insanity Witan© : is if'n one of the big nasties gets a hand on ya he might just toss you insanity's way Witan© : casue insanity has a big ass appatite Guest_clara : absolutely witan, and once you hv been there, it is easy to recognise Guest_clara : true true witan Witan© : you are gonna face all these guys if you head that way Guest_clara : and i have seen people go that way Witan© : and i want you to head that way, but i want ya to do it knowing those nasties are there ... but its up to you to fight em Guest_clara : i have been there.... Witan© : againa and again and again Guest_clara : arghhhhhh Witan© : they are your friends sure in the sense that they will make you stronger if'n ya survive Love_Thy_Neighbor : anyone have any ideas to help bring my baby up in understandig the spirit.. zm me Witan© : but then everyone is your friend by that definition except those that make ya weak Guest_clara : anyway, thanks for the reminder...got to go unfortunately...cya all Witan© : hahaha TheBMan_ : "that which does not kill us, makes us stronger". cosmiclight_1 : peace to all here 8 Guest_clara has left the conversation. Witan© : Love, love your baby, teach your baby, give your baby room to grow Witan© : dont try and bring your baby up in spirit Witan© : your baby is in spirit hooplight�?/FONT> : excelent words witan Witan© : try not to rip your baby out of spirit Love_Thy_Neighbor : okay.... Witan© : hahahahahahahahahahahahaha TheBMan_ : I have a question kellog Kellog_bluff : only if yur not gonna whine first. TheBMan_ : Is it because you like it, or because you see some value in being rough? Kellog_bluff : do you see any value in the teacher being rough with the student? Kellog_bluff : well bman? Kellog_bluff : this is another yes or no question hooplight�?: yes TheBMan_ : I would agree that at times it could be good, but not always necessary or benfecial to teaching. Kellog_bluff : yes or no? TheBMan_ : It's not that black or white in my opinion. Kellog_bluff : and whose opinion should guide the teacher? TheBMan_ : Wisdom should be the guide, the teacher is not always correct. Simple_Dream : do you see value in taunting Your child kellog into not crying out of of guilt he/she might disapoint their dad? Kellog_bluff : you have had dumb teachers. Witan© : lol Witan© : lol TheBMan_ : haha Witan© : wow Witan© : hahaha Kellog_bluff : in simple's equation --- a teacher would not do that. Witan© : Simple are you knwo claiming that you and everyone who comes here is just a child? Kellog_bluff : a simpleton would. Simple_Dream : nah-- just making teaching analogies Kellog_bluff : but i will tell bman --- that I only ever do what is best for the student - from my perspective . Simple_Dream : fair enough TheBMan_ : fair enough. Kellog_bluff : the student - by her/his statements - doesnt much often know what is best. hooplight�?: i will testify to that Kellog_bluff : but the student - by their actions - or their mind's eye --- will always tell me what i need to do. Kellog_bluff : always. 8 Maiden81 has joined the conversation. Kellog_bluff : then it is up to me to discern that. Kellog_bluff : properly. intense_female : wb Maiden Kellog_bluff : properly faceonmars9 : wb maidy Witan© : I for one kellog are glad you were here AquaRose�?: ((((((((((((Maiden)))))))))))))) wb CrystaBlue1 : wb maidy Kellog_bluff : it is not easy - to teach. Witan© : i thought he needed it but i didnt really have teh stomach for it today Kellog_bluff : but it is fairly simple. Maiden81 : hi intense tyty..i kept performing illegal ops. geez louise intense_female : lol Maiden81 : tyty face Maiden81 : (((((((((((Aquanette))))))))) Maiden81 : tyty Crystal Kellog_bluff : one of the first things a teacher has to accept - is the loss of personal favor from students with soft self-esteem Kellog_bluff : some students like to be stroked for their lack of performance. Kellog_bluff : some like to feel the brush of velvet in teaching. Witan© : this lesson right here that he mentions i personally struggle with Kellog_bluff : they dont understand --- that the value of teaching lies in using it on your worst days. Kellog_bluff : not on your best. Witan© : alot tee hee Kellog_bluff : eveyone can handle issues on their good days. Kellog_bluff : it is the value of training - that you fall back on it - on your worst days. Kellog_bluff : and the decent teacher --- will not be soft to a student if it is not essential to teaching - -- Kellog_bluff : softness - as with hardness ---- is a posture best learned at a distance. Kellog_bluff : the first thing the student learns --- is to shut up except when ask a question. Kellog_bluff : this is the essence of the perfect student. Kellog_bluff : of course ---- we dont get these often Kellog_bluff : so we muddle along. Kellog_bluff : often pissing off the gallery. Kellog_bluff : and with every "piss' - someone takes a decent leak. Kellog_bluff : in training - because true learning - is training ---- you learn to appreciate two things: Kellog_bluff : 1) you need to lose your pompousness Kellog_bluff : 2) you need to appreciate humor. 8 GemRockStar_1 has joined the conversation. Kellog_bluff : usually the teachers', first faceonmars9 : hiya gem Kellog_bluff : and you will learn - that your performance dictates to the teacher - his. Kellog_bluff : if you show up shining like a polished show - he's a'gonna spit on it. Kellog_bluff : if yu show up with shit on your face --- he will extend a hankerchief. GemRockStar_1 : hello face Maiden81 whispers.....gemmmmybearrr Kellog_bluff : but the essence is ---- Show up. Kellog_bluff : show up - and do your best. Kellog_bluff : and quit whining about being roughed up a bit. Kellog_bluff : believe me - I am nowhere near as rough to you as your oponents will be. Kellog_bluff : but in respect for you - I will do my best. Kellog_bluff : otherwise - i have failed you as a teacher. Kellog_bluff : and i dont fail in that respect very often. Kellog_bluff : -end-of-line. Witan© : TY Kb. Kellog_bluff : any time ---- if I didnt love this gallery - i would not spend the time. Simple_Dream bows humbly. Kellog_bluff : any of you who think I am a cruel spirit --- ya dont have a clew. Witan© : Again I am glad you are here tonight Kellog_bluff : but i can teach ya TheBMan_ : Kellog_bluff : and all that and a quarter - will get ya a seat at the GDO cafe Witan© : lol Kellog_bluff : order espresso. CrystaBlue1 : well this gallery loves you Kellog hooplight�?: caffe late? Kellog_bluff : latte for the laides Kellog_bluff : ladies Maiden81 : brb Kellog_bluff : espresso for the men 8 Maiden81 has left the conversation. hooplight�?: Kellog_bluff : hair on yur toes hooplight�?: hey leave my toes outa this Kellog_bluff : then take em outta the Crack hooplight�?: lol hooplight�?: hehehehe hooplight�?: gee i find the crack and then ...sheesh Kellog_bluff : well - they are your toes, i aitn complaining 8 CrystaBlue1 is away. hooplight�?: Witan© : well that was good stuff, i am sure that its too bad love thy didnt stick it out and learn the inevitable conclusion to the lesson at hand hooplight�?: another time when ready 8 Kellog_bluff is away. Kellog_bluff : the lesson was not for Love_thy Kellog_bluff : you know that Witan© : lol hooplight�?: was for little ears like mine Kellog_bluff : such an MC Witan© : ty hooplight�?: ok witan ? hooplight�?: new topic Witan© : yes hoop hooplight�?: i am full of energy hooplight�?: hooplight�?: lets talk Sir_Optimist® is bout ready to fall asleep Sir_Optimist® : night everyone Witan© : what shall we discourse about dear? Laurelovely01 : Nite Sir faceonmars9 : nighters sir GemRockStar_1 : night sir 8 Sir_Optimist® has left the conversation. hooplight�?: energy hooplight�?: spring energy intense_female : good topic hooplight�?: all the vibes goin haywire Witan© : spring energy as in teh season? hooplight�?: as in seasonal affect on humans Witan© : lets see spring=sex=madness intense_female : energy shifts right hoop? Witan© : hahahahaha faceonmars9 : winter sure depresses me Simple_Dream : allergy to polln causes hyperactivity-- and stimulation of occipital lobe=== increased psi abilities? Simple_Dream : I knew my allregies had some use Witan© : lol intense_female : actually i think that the chineese believe its because your yin and yang are out of whack intense_female : and not balanced well with the wood aspect intense_female : blah blah blah (tell ya after i finish reading the book ) Laurelovely01 : lol Witan© : lol Witan© : i am not so familiar with the seasonal energy patterns they tend to have a different effect on me than others GemRockStar_1 don't come to my city then...your allergies will have a big party in the 70 mile an hour dirt- blowing wind 8 faceonmars9 is away. hooplight�?: ooohhh do tell witan? hooplight�?: how they effect you? Witan© : in winter i am alive teh closer i get to summer the closer i get to dying when june hits ill nearly be dead, then the shitll hit the proverbial fan an ill be reborn and teh cycle starts anew Witan© : the new life starts well and hits its high point in winter again faceonmars9 : are you outdoors alot in winter Witan© : yes a good bit Witan© : it only snows here once every four years faceonmars9 : thats why i think i get down in winter, inside all the freakin time Witan© : ya Witan© : winter has a tendencie to depress also because of the lack of sunlight Witan© : which incurs lower seratonin levels AquaRose�?that happens up here a lot i get it all the time 8 faceonmars9 has returned. Witan© : well Witan© : silence descends intense_female : lol AquaRose�?: again Witan© : i guess hoop you are the only one with energy and you aint sying much Witan© : lol intense_female : lol intense_female : Witan intense_female : How about Shamanism and Druidism Witan© : yes intense intense_female : walking the line faceonmars9 : do our spirits have an individual essence intense_female : ventures into the spirit world, soul rescue intense_female : using animal totems for healing intense_female : lol intense_female : just a few ideas TheBMan_ : mmmm intense_female : should you need one intense_female : lol intense_female : shall i submit a list for you 8 BlissfulPeta has joined the conversation. BlissfulPeta : hi everyone intense_female : Welcome Bliss TheBMan_ : Didnt u just do that ? faceonmars9 : hiya bliss TheBMan_ : hi bliss Witan© : i belive so face i callit the meta pattern but it is open whether that remains from life to life i believe it can but doesnt have to GemRockStar_1 : hi bliss BlissfulPeta : hi all Witan© : and that thereofre the ego is transient rather than an ongoing thing Witan© : so when you die you do in fact cease to be Witan© : the energy doesnt change but the you is gonedy 8 CrystaBlue1 has returned. BlissfulPeta : what actually happens to u when u die? faceonmars9 : so our personality isn't part of our spirit Witan© : my view bliss is that ya hang out for a bit as your soul begins to degrade BlissfulPeta : has anyone actually done any reasearch into it? BlissfulPeta : ok Witan© : yes bliss Witan© : look up Stanislav Graf Witan© : online BlissfulPeta : ok,ty Witan© : he has researched many thousands of cases of induced past life regression and had seubjects journey to death and explore what was there Witan© : face i look at our personaloity as an inetraction between the body and the spirit Witan© : so when ya die it sorta falls apart TheBMan_ : May I ask a question? Witan© : teh union contract dissolves and a new contract is negotiated Witan© : yes B faceonmars9 : but memories of all lives combine your true personality? Witan© : not necessarily TheBMan_ : Given your statement on that, I'm wondering what your views are on people like John Edwards (if your're familiar with him) Witan© : which one is he? AquaRose�?: the medium i think Witan© : ive heard of im faceonmars9 : sci fi channel Witan© : but i dont recall is specific bent faceonmars9 : talks to the dead TheBMan_ : He has the show on sci fi, where he claims to communicate with the dead intense_female : a medium, and a good one Witan© : no sweat Witan© : information doesnt die intense_female : Kellog is a huge fan TheBMan_ : I didn't believe inititally, but he seems to be very accurate Witan© : information can simultaneously exist in all places at once Witan© : the information every detail of every life taht has ever been lived is out there Witan© : floating in teh aether the universal switcboard whatever Witan© : ya just reach out and touch it' 8 BlissfulPeta has left the conversation. TheBMan_ : ahh Witan© : i have spoken to my dead father but i recognize that he isnt out there he has rejoined the universe or possibly be reborn or maybe moved on but his info is still part of teh collective Witan© : we are researchers for teh collective Witan© : so that we may all evolve Witan© : in my view anyhoo faceonmars9 : do all spirits incarnate Witan© : the collective the evrything we all are parts of god Witan© : no i dont believ so Witan© : i feel our mandate is to experience everything possible 8 markn11 has joined the conversation. Witan© : so that allows for many types of entity faceonmars9 : hiya mark CrystaBlue1 : Welcome Mark CrystaBlue1 : http://communities.msn.com/SpiritalLearningCenter 8 markn11 has left the conversation. Witan© : http://communities.msn.com/Witenagemot Witan© : shamanism and druidism differences Witan© : didnt i cover this in my comm? faceonmars9 : yup Witan© : lol intense_female : you touched on it yes Witan© : well Witan© : tell ya what ill do that topc next monday then sound good? intense_female : great GemRockStar_1 : and all, take care everyone..have a wonderful night and a lovely tomorrow intense_female : night Gemmy faceonmars9 : nighters gem Witan© : cool, cause i think im off myself CrystaBlue1 : nite Witan© : getting late for me 8 Hmmmmm__MM8 has joined the conversation. 8 GemRockStar_1 has left the conversation. faceonmars9 : night witan Hmmmmm__MM8 : WHY HELLO THERE FURRY LITTLE FRIENDS CrystaBlue1 : welcome HMMMMMM Witan© : night yall ill return next week intense_female : ty Witan hooplight�?: WITAN 8 Hmmmmm__MM8 has left the conversation. Witan© : yes hoop hooplight�?: love ya Witan© : lol love you to hoop CrystaBlue1 : nite witan hooplight�?: night 8 Witan© has left the conversation. 8 CrystaBlue1 is away. Kellog_bluff sigh........... faceonmars9 gasp hooplight�?: sigh hooplight�?: ? intense_female fart faceonmars9 : lol intense_female : sorry all the good ones were taken TheBMan_ plugs nose hooplight�?: well time for chat arobicize intense_female : whats the sigh about? hooplight�?: everyone stetch hooplight�?: to the right intense_female : stretches hooplight�?: feel the burn intense_female : ah that feels good intense_female : Hey hoop hooplight�?: everyone stretch to the left hooplight�?: yuppers? intense_female : when I was there you gave me 4 books to bring back with me hooplight�?: yes intense_female : i decided to study them while i'm out of town hooplight�?: cool intense_female : so i kpet them in my suit case intense_female : cause i'll have tons of time when i'm traveling intense_female : well anyway... intense_female : i feel drawn to go to the metaphysical book store yesterday intense_female : i wonder around ... lalalala hooplight�?: lol intense_female : finally a book jumps out at me intense_female : i just wonder around till one does intense_female : i open it and i'm practically drewling intense_female : i get it home and dive into it intense_female : then realize today that you gave it to me intense_female : lol intense_female : lmao hooplight�?: oh no faceonmars9 : lol hooplight�?: lol intense_female : Staying Healthy With the Seasons hooplight�?: to funny hooplight�?: great book huh? intense_female : there is only say 10,000 books there intense_female : yeah GREAT book hooplight�?: and you pick one i send with ya intense_female : in the last 6 months i bought 2 books that way intense_female : the first one i got it home to realize i had it on my shelf intense_female : someone had given it to me intense_female : lol intense_female : the second, had it intense_female : lol intense_female : i should really just read what i have 8 Skinhead_8_8 has joined the conversation. hooplight�?: intense check book shelf before leaving home Skinhead_8_8 : heil hitler Skinhead_8_8 : 88 intense_female : lol intense_female : hi hitler faceonmars9 : hiya skin intense_female : oops intense_female : hiya skin Skinhead_8_8 : its skinhead intense_female : is it heil or hell or heel? Skinhead_8_8 : h e i l intense_female : ah intense_female : what is the definition? intense_female : i've never looked it up hooplight�?: well is the new one in better shape intense then my old one? Skinhead_8_8 : salute hitler TheBMan_ : haha intense_female : yeah it is Simple_Dream : 88-- is nazi-- but the skin head movement ironically began in Jamaica hooplight�?: send my book to kellog intense_female : oh did it Simple? Skinhead_8_8 : thats nice intense_female : okay Hoop, sure thing Skinhead_8_8 : yawn Simple_Dream : amoung black factory workers hooplight�?: donation for book sharing Skinhead_8_8 : i don't care about the past intense_female : so the skin head movement was started by blacks? Skinhead_8_8 : i care about the future TheBMan_ : seriously? Simple_Dream : then why do you care about hitler? intense_female : Skin could you give us a history lesson? Skinhead_8_8 : a WHITE FUTURE intense_female : lol simple Skinhead_8_8 : BECAUSE HITLER WAS A GREAT MAN TheBMan_ : omg Simple_Dream : he is dead-- that is the past intense_female : and what are you? hooplight�?: no caps skin Skinhead_8_8 : ITS THE FONT hooplight�?: change it Skinhead_8_8 : FUCK IT WIGGERS 8 Skinhead_8_8 has left the conversation. intense_female : lol Simple_Dream : lol hooplight�?: okey dokey intense_female : guess he couldnt change it intense_female : oh well hooplight�?: me thinks hitler would have him put to death intense_female : i was really hoping for a history lesson, very cool fact simple hooplight�?: cant follow orders intense_female : true intense_female : lol intense_female : hoop faceonmars9 : so whaddayaz think about your spirits essence Simple_Dream : he's weak intense_female : i dont get the whole wigger thing hooplight�?: simple was that fact true? Simple_Dream : yes hooplight�?: the whole jamaica thing? intense_female : thats why i love simple hooplight�?: really? Simple_Dream : started with the ska movement in Jamaica Simple_Dream : they shaved their heads because it was required-- lice hooplight�?: spirits essence face? Simple_Dream : the boots and suspenders were their work clothes hooplight�?: ahh i see simple faceonmars9 : yup Simple_Dream : to make it simple-- the movement left Jamaica as Ska became big in Europe Simple_Dream : Ska became OY 8 yukonfirewoman0 has joined the conversation. faceonmars9 : hiya yukon yukonfirewoman0 : hello Simple_Dream : there was always a bit of competition in it even in the early days Simple_Dream : associate with soccer matches maybe? 8 CrystaBlue1 has left the conversation. hooplight�?: well my view is spirit in the ocean soul is the ocean within a single cup....so spirit is the make up of everything..soul is our own recognition of our design and process of perspective Simple_Dream : anyway-- different groups started in Europe--- and they took the pride in their groups with them Simple_Dream : originally competition between workers from different factories Simple_Dream : turned to nationalism faceonmars9 : so we add to the make up of our soul while here? hooplight�?: yes soul like carving a side of a diamond or facet Simple_Dream : and that to racism-- which in Germany-- mix racism, nationalism, and industrialization Simple_Dream : and aggression Simple_Dream : and you get nazi's 8 CrystaBlue1 has joined the conversation. faceonmars9 : wb crsta intense_female : simple intense_female : wb crysta CrystaBlue1 : ty ty ty Simple_Dream : there were skin head movements that were still peaceful hooplight�?: simple you are a wealth of information CrystaBlue1 : hit the wrong button Simple_Dream : some of these evolved through music-- from OY-- in Puck Simple_Dream : Punk Simple_Dream : done-- if you want more detail you would have to ask my punk friend blake who runs a ska radio show hooplight�?: kinda like a cancer virus spreading simple Simple_Dream : yep Simple_Dream : into both bad and good though CrystaBlue1 : so it is not going away hooplight�?: metastising to other areas hooplight�?: yes simple i agree CrystaBlue1 : i dont know if i understand Simple_Dream : the punk movement early on-- posers not included-- made a ton of political commentary hooplight�?: still do dont they? Simple_Dream : some Simple_Dream : the true ones like my friend do Simple_Dream : there is of course a lot of punk light-- that is pop music-- same sound without the deapth intense_female : hello? 8 Gigi_SoCaligrl has joined the conversation. Kellog_bluff : hello faceonmars9 : hi intense_female : oops CrystaBlue1 : Welcome Gigi hooplight�?: i personally like the rainbow effect in humanity today...i dont agree with pure races intense_female : thought i was moofing 8 Gigi_SoCaligrl has left the conversation. 8 Kellog_bluff has returned. intense_female : wb Kellog faceonmars9 : wb kellog Kellog_bluff : hi Kellog_bluff : busy nite hooplight�?: wb kellog hooplight�?: very busy hooplight�?: i learned so much tonight Kellog_bluff : havent gotten a shitpiece of writing done, tho hooplight�?: unbelievable Kellog_bluff : I am still trying to retrieve the text from last thurs hooplight�?: well kellog..i was worth it wasnt I? Simple_Dream : ska music-- by the way-- came from Jamaicans listening to cuban and american Jazz from miami over the radio-- they would learn the songs by heart-- then take different pieces from different sources-- then would alter them and improvise Kellog_bluff : but of course Kellog_bluff : licking your mind's eye to get at a piece of undigested cheese ---- is always tasty hooplight�?: eeewww Kellog_bluff : oh - dont cha like the metaphor? hooplight�?: better then some Simple_Dream : helped start the movement that eventually led to dubbing, mixing, and sampling-- that is todays-- hip hop-- Dancehall-- and spinning DJ/s Kellog_bluff : hwo about digging in the mud of your memories to pick up a dung pie? faceonmars9 : lol hooplight�?: well you have done that to me kellog havent you Simple_Dream : why not live in the now? I still have dung hooplight�?: i could use an excavation crew Kellog_bluff : the deeper the scene - the stronger the scene - the quirkier the metaphor hooplight�?: some i cant find Kellog_bluff : I can always find them. Kellog_bluff : its what i do. hooplight�?: well i was asking the wrong guy all along then Kellog_bluff : why you say that? hooplight�?: i should have asked you kellog Kellog_bluff : why? Kellog_bluff : didnt you get the same answer from mr wizard? hooplight�?: 1/2 an answer from the wizard Kellog_bluff : 1/2 an answer from the wizard is usually all one needs... hooplight�?: other half still MIA Kellog_bluff : he was being very nice with you. hooplight�?: yes he was yukonfirewoman0 : cu later 8 yukonfirewoman0 has left the conversation. Kellog_bluff : when a student "caws" for an answer that the source is alreayd within ----- most wizards will lie. Kellog_bluff : they do this - to tempt you. hooplight�?: lol Kellog_bluff : it is the linear bunkai of the wizard. hooplight�?: ahh i see Kellog_bluff : you must consider this - when you travel to oz to ask their help. Kellog_bluff : wizards are very ethical. Kellog_bluff : especially our home host. Kellog_bluff : he will only ever try to help you. 8 yrworship has joined the conversation. Kellog_bluff : if that means lying as a linear bunkai - he can be counted upon to perform. Kellog_bluff : ya cant be sloppy with a wizard. Kellog_bluff : he will bite you. Kellog_bluff : where it hurts... hooplight�?: thats a fact Kellog_bluff : and being sloppy - you will think he trys to hurt you ---- Kellog_bluff : it is in fact the opposite. Kellog_bluff : he is being oh so sweet Kellog_bluff : and kind. Kellog_bluff : and you miss the clew. Kellog_bluff : by looking at the words - instead of the performance. Kellog_bluff : no matter how many times an unprepared mind screams for the answer in a soft muffin of a speech... Kellog_bluff : a decent wizard will slap the student upside the head. Kellog_bluff : he does this. Kellog_bluff : and you should be grateful he does. Kellog_bluff : he could simply ignore you. Kellog_bluff : or worse - give you saccarin answers that lead you to dusty mustiness - and nowhere special. Kellog_bluff : you need to be Strong ---- to survive. Kellog_bluff : havent ya all understood that yet? Kellog_bluff : love comes from strength. Kellog_bluff : what did jesus preach? Kellog_bluff : when someone hits you - turn the other cheek. Kellog_bluff : what kinda strenght does that take? Simple_Dream : so what makes a teaching not soft-- if not lies--- and if anything that is dones with the purpose to heal-- is soft and done of pure ettiquette-- like lies from a wizard-- then is one who is not soft-- of poor ettiquette- and additionally intending harm? Kellog_bluff : what did buddha preach? Simple_Dream : dones= deals Kellog_bluff : ya gotta be strong and subtle. Kellog_bluff : what makes a teaching soft - is a number of things: Kellog_bluff : but what all those things have in common, is this: Kellog_bluff : they are of no value to spiritual growth in the individual's survival on this wurld. Kellog_bluff : decent teachers that are in Tune with Spirit - have many techniques: Kellog_bluff : but all have the same directive: Simple_Dream : so in essence-- you are saying Witan's teachings are of no value? why wait till he leaves to enlighten us with this fact? Kellog_bluff : provide the student withy two things: Laurelovely01 slips quietly out of the room....whispering Blessings good nite 8 Laurelovely01 has left the conversation. hooplight�?: night Kellog_bluff : I say just the opposite Kellog_bluff : witans teachings always have value Kellog_bluff : you are unable to discern what i write Simple_Dream : you said he gave soft answers-- follow your own logic Kellog_bluff : i said he does not. Kellog_bluff : read my llips Simple_Dream : you said he was soft on hoop Kellog_bluff : i said he was nice Kellog_bluff : not soft Kellog_bluff : he is most favorable with hoop Kellog_bluff : he provides more than most would - given his approach Kellog_bluff : and he always gives her what she needs Kellog_bluff : despite her hooplight�?: not what i demand to know Simple_Dream : ok Kellog_bluff : do not confuse my "nice" - said about another teacher - to a "soft" as describing a student's whining. Kellog_bluff : and i do not need to explain what i say about another teacher.... Kellog_bluff : if you cannot fathom my love for him ---- all the more better. Kellog_bluff : it is most personal. Kellog_bluff : and none of your business. Kellog_bluff : you evidently pay little attention to details. Kellog_bluff : but don't stop questioning - what you see. Kellog_bluff : it is the only way to find the truth. Kellog_bluff : you may find that when asked about an impeccible teacher like hin - I tend to bite. Kellog_bluff : being that i cannot eloquate as he does - - i only stumble along the way. Kellog_bluff : (of course he has that nasty green shit-looking cap) Simple_Dream : kellog-- you went from nice-- to talking about how you should know a wizard will act-- you said he will tell you lies--- and that this is meant to help--- you said that it is soft--- and then started talking about how being soft was worthless in teaching Kellog_bluff : and he is losing his hair Kellog_bluff : I know what I write. Kellog_bluff : his actions are "nice" Kellog_bluff : in the way he treats her. Kellog_bluff : I chide him about this Kellog_bluff : and he laughs Simple_Dream : purhaps the ettiquette of your logic is flawless-- and I am too dim-- so I ask you to follow and search for your intent in this line of logic-- and not the flawless exterior that is your ettiquette Kellog_bluff : you are too dim, then. Kellog_bluff : i say again ---- he treats her nice ----- he teaches impeccibly. 8 singing_wind58 has joined the conversation. 8 singing_wind58 has left the conversation. CrystaBlue1 : Welcome Singing CrystaBlue1 : bye Kellog_bluff : is that "simple" enuf? Simple_Dream : of course-- the rest is up to you dear sir Kellog_bluff : you do not have to agree with me. Kellog_bluff : his teaching remains - as stated. hooplight�?: i agree with kellog...witan is impeccable..and very cordial with me in his teaching me Simple_Dream : I was never questioning Witan hooplight�?: he will not tell me many things which of course irk me hooplight�?: but as kellog says witan would lie to me to get the lesson across Kellog_bluff : sometimes folks do not understand me - when I use many words... Kellog_bluff : and it is my burden in life to be more precise - while being casual. Kellog_bluff : as i have said before ---- i fail many times each day --- 8 just_audra has joined the conversation. CrystaBlue1 : Welcome Audra faceonmars9 : hiya audra just_audra : blessings all Kellog_bluff : if I did not impart my position efficiently --- it is a work unfinished. AquaRose�?: i gotta get going...night everyone CrystaBlue1 : ((((((((((audra)))))))))))) faceonmars9 : night aqua CrystaBlue1 : (((((((((((((rose)))))))))) just_audra : {{{{{{ crysta }}}}}}} just_audra : lol CrystaBlue1 : AquaRose�?: Kellog_bluff : but i doubt you will ever hear me "knock" a teacher i already respect... 8 AquaRose�?/B> has left the conversation. Simple_Dream : you said earlier-- as a teacher-- you almost never fail Kellog_bluff : but if i have no respect for the teacher --- I dont wait for their departure --- just_audra : brb 8 just_audra is away. yrworship : hey hoop!!! Kellog_bluff : I have no problem going head-on with anyone. Simple_Dream : I do not doubt it Kellog_bluff : I have said I fail many times Kellog_bluff : I have also said I usually hit the mark in teaching. Kellog_bluff : I have also said i am good at what I do. CrystaBlue1 : simple why are you so hard on Kellog? Kellog_bluff : he is not hard. Simple_Dream : I am soft-- thus worthless Kellog_bluff : when a teacher stands in the open - he is subject to questions. Kellog_bluff : if he cannot answer the questions --- he cannot teach. CrystaBlue1 : there are questions but his are so hard and ouchy Kellog_bluff : his are not. hooplight�?: lol Kellog_bluff : his are candy. Kellog_bluff : and i have a sweet tooth. Simple_Dream : CrystaBlue1 : lol 8 SarIndia has joined the conversation. intense_female : Welcome Sar Kellog_bluff : whoever questions this approach - does not understand zen. CrystaBlue1 : Welcome Sar hooplight�?: simple has a close eye on the teacher Kellog_bluff : simple --- understands the basics of zen. Kellog_bluff : but he stll needs a smack on the rump . Kellog_bluff : CrystaBlue1 : well i dont i am sorry CrystaBlue1 : i am a softy Kellog_bluff : you are forgiven. SarIndia : hello folks CrystaBlue1 : hi sar Kellog_bluff : be welcomed here - to get hard CrystaBlue1 : i would like to learn though Kellog_bluff : you are. SarIndia : how is everyone tonight CrystaBlue1 : good and you Kellog_bluff : hi Sar SarIndia : i'm good. Simple_Dream : good sar SarIndia : been hard to get into any room tonight CrystaBlue1 : oh really sar? hooplight�?: well fellow friends and family i am off to bed...was a monday i will remember faceonmars9 : nighters hoop Simple_Dream : night hoop CrystaBlue1 : lol hoop SarIndia : night hoop CrystaBlue1 : (((((((((((((((((((((hoop)))))))))))))) intense_female : night hoop Kellog_bluff : nite s TheBMan_ : night hoop CrystaBlue1 : nite blessings hoop 8 hooplight�?/B> has left the conversation. 8 just_audra has left the conversation. Kellog_bluff : crystal --- yu will find that teachers in this room need to stand up to scrutiny Kellog_bluff : and it is ok. Kellog_bluff : it is as should be. CrystaBlue1 : well i sure couldnt handle simple intense_female : lol CrystaBlue1 : lol Kellog_bluff : I an often chided about my clumsiness at using both "nice" and "soft" in the same paragraph. CrystaBlue1 : i need to learn zen Kellog_bluff : you probably do, crystal Kellog_bluff : but we respect whatever path you choose. CrystaBlue1 : when i can handle simple on attack i can handle most of the badies in my life CrystaBlue1 : CrystaBlue1 : so now i want to learn zen Kellog_bluff : then start to practice. CrystaBlue1 : you got my attention Kellog_bluff : oh- Kellog_bluff : ignore the words" then start to" Kellog_bluff : practice. CrystaBlue1 : how CrystaBlue1 : spar with simple Kellog_bluff : that would not hurt/ CrystaBlue1 : ok simple you and me CrystaBlue1 : Kellog_bluff : but I can give you a few clews on how to start "training" ------ intense_female : lol intense_female : simple doesnt fight intense_female : simple always has healing in mind Kellog_bluff : but dont you have a training path already? CrystaBlue1 : cool kellog CrystaBlue1 : i know intense intense_female : and its ironic that he uses the same tactic to heal as kellog does to teach Kellog_bluff : ironic? CrystaBlue1 : yes i do Kellog_bluff : we use - what works. Kellog_bluff : so - use your [path] to train, crystal. CrystaBlue1 : i have a path i am using to heal my inner child Kellog_bluff : there ya go. CrystaBlue1 : ? Kellog_bluff : weight-watchers? Kellog_bluff : (kidding0 Kellog_bluff : geez.... CrystaBlue1 : that would also help me learn zen? Kellog_bluff : well - i gotta tell ya, crystal ----- ya can't 'learn" zen. Simple_Dream : I'm guilty of that yes CrystaBlue1 : you practice zen CrystaBlue1 : ? Kellog_bluff : well - ya can learn 'about" zen.... Kellog_bluff : ya can read about it... CrystaBlue1 : ok Kellog_bluff : ya can run circles around what other people call it - or think about it... Kellog_bluff : but zen is intensely personal... Kellog_bluff : and cannot be grasped or grabbed or throttled - by perscription. CrystaBlue1 : oh Kellog_bluff : you will be so busy defining what zen is Not - that you usually miss what zen IS. Kellog_bluff : but this is not to discourage you. Kellog_bluff : this is an introduction. CrystaBlue1 : ok Kellog_bluff : steer clear of folks who promise to "teach you Kellog_bluff : "zen" Kellog_bluff : they will approximate the true value Kellog_bluff : and in doing so - miss the mark entirely SarIndia : Kellog, from what i've read, isn't the whole point of zen simply to be in the moment? and don't all other words regarding zen just lead you to that concept? Kellog_bluff : that's a decent statement Kellog_bluff : and them the moment moves on ---- Kellog_bluff : and my question is ---- Kellog_bluff : where are you? SarIndia : if you're in the moment you don't ask you just are Kellog_bluff : and so. Kellog_bluff : where is the moment you arent asking about? Kellog_bluff : can I touch it? Kellog_bluff : can I spit at it? Kellog_bluff : can you? SarIndia : no, the moment you try. you stop. and are looking at the past Kellog_bluff : and waht are you looking for, sar? Kellog_bluff : crystal - welcome. CrystaBlue1 : thank you kellog Kellog_bluff : this is what students in zen talk about - all day SarIndia : i'm not looking for anything. i was simple adding to the conversation Kellog_bluff : oh - then did we miss the moment? SarIndia : lol Kellog_bluff : where did it go? CrystaBlue1 : lol Kellog_bluff : slippery it is, eh? SarIndia : you're very good Kellog Kellog_bluff : well - Im not soft, thanks to simple CrystaBlue1 : lol Kellog_bluff : and some decent teachers Kellog_bluff : may they fart in their graves 9h) Kellog_bluff : CrystaBlue1 : lol CrystaBlue1 ffffffttttttt SarIndia : i'm proud to be considered soft Kellog_bluff : powder puff SarIndia : i can step offline easier that way CrystaBlue1 : soft is good in its place Kellog_bluff : my favorite teacher was soft - in her persuation - but hard - in her protocol. CrystaBlue1 : but there comes a time when you must stand tough faceonmars9 : is zen similar to balance Kellog_bluff : soft - to her students in imparting data --- hard in the technique of teaching that data. SarIndia : Kellog, have you ever practiced aikido? Kellog_bluff : yep SarIndia : then you must know that the peaceful warrior has more control by being soft at all times Kellog_bluff : the soft you mention - is the hardest thing you will run into in a battle with that warrior</DIR>
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