Spirital Learning Center

Introduction to Buddism

�?Concept of Self and Other

--taught by Mykkyo

Mykkyo_ : we are in are reality that we see as inherently real due to the conditioning of our lives and the belief that everything is separate

intense_female : gotcha

Mykkyo_ : well if you compare your waking like with your dream life and see how in dreams we think everything is so real...you will begin to understand
Mykkyo_ : Now, some of you may agree some may not, but the question is how do I effect the change so that I might end the suffering of life?
Mykkyo_ : suffering being all suffering
Mykkyo_ : So then you might think what’s the benefit in spending a lifetime on this path? Well that is simple...complete and absolute freedom from suffering of all forms
Mykkyo_ : and freedom from the circle of death and rebirth that keeps you locked in this state of suffering from lifetime to lifetime...sound good? JJ
Mykkyo_ : little more then we can get the questions answered
Mykkyo_ : It would like to briefly say a word about Buddhism that few understand.

intense_female : wow
intense_female : sounds good to me

Mykkyo_ : hehe

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : few indeed

Mykkyo_ : Buddhism is in general terms considered a religion, but the method of Buddhism, and this is absolutely important to remember, is dialectic.
Mykkyo_ : That is to say it doesn’t teach a doctrine. You cannot anywhere find what Buddhism teaches, as you can with Christianity or Judaism or Islam.
Mykkyo_ : Because all Buddhism is a discourse and what most people suppose to be its teachings are only the opening stages of the dialog.
Mykkyo_ : People believe that because a Buddhist goes to a temple that there is some amount of worship in a traditional western sense of the word.
Mykkyo_ : It is true that respect is paid to the Buddha’s of the past and future but not as a deity, as a representation of the ideals of enlightenment.
Mykkyo_ : The point of the ritual side of Buddhist life is to postulate the right attitude and atmosphere for enlightenment, and that is what is seen as the religious side and what it is truly about.
Mykkyo_ : Above I mentioned that the path has been laid out, I haven’t elaborated yet on that course because it is important that the basic idea of the Buddhist view on reality become understood.
Mykkyo_ : If after our talk today if there is interest in what the path entails, further discourses can be scheduled or a general discussion on the topic could be started on the message board.

intense_female : sounds good Mykkyo

Mykkyo_ : so that’s that, and I'm sure there are questions. I ran through it quick

Laurelovely01 : lol
Laurelovely01 : so now your going to explain what you said earlier?

Mykkyo_ : understanding this way is very difficult I’m sure....so as questions and I will explain
Mykkyo_ : well yes, is there something specific you didn’t get?
Mykkyo_ : questions?

intense_female : no questions here Mykkyo
intense_female : Worm you have any?

Mykkyo_ : I know it couldn’t have been that clean

Laurelovely01 : I got the concept of self...I think
Laurelovely01 : but I’m not sure I got the concept of other

Mykkyo_ : other is very similar to self...things or others exist only as a creation of your mind meaning

Mykkyo_ : that the way in which you perceive things is only as your mind is conditioned to see them
Mykkyo_ : better?

intense_female : conditioned by what?

Laurelovely01 : so a spoon is only a spoon because I’ve been told its a spoon?

Mykkyo_ : by our current and passed lives and experiences
Mykkyo_ : yes that’s true

intense_female : woohoo Laurel

Mykkyo_ : if you had never seen a spoon, and one was handed to you...what would you call it
Mykkyo_ : you would call it whatever you where told it was called

intense_female : right
intense_female : gotcha

Laurelovely01 : ok but are you really talking about labels?
Laurelovely01 : labels simplify our lives that's all
Laurelovely01 : commonalties
Laurelovely01 : or have I missed your point?

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : so the goal of Buddhists is to realize this word is an illusion?
Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : world*

Mykkyo_ : where did those labels arise? Are they truly what they seem to be? and can a label tell you what a trees essence really is?

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : our perception of it I mean

Mykkyo_ : no its to awaken from this illusion to true blissful reality

Laurelovely01 : and reality is what exactly?

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : then the suffering and enjoyment we experience here is an illusion?

Mykkyo_ : that I cannot answer, as I said I am not enlightened. but maybe one day I will be able to

Laurelovely01 : so you are saying that everything is an illusion but you don’t know what reality is?

Mykkyo_ : let me finish with Laurel then ill answer V

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : of course

Mykkyo_ : no that what enlightenment shows you....
Mykkyo_ : this is a good example
Mykkyo_ : all of you write a very brief description of what God is

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : is

intense_female : everything and the void

Laurelovely01 : universal energy

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : is

Mykkyo_ : ok then out of those three which one is God or are all three/

intense_female : all three

Laurelovely01 : all 3

Mykkyo_ : all three and everything else including each one of you

intense_female : agreed

Mykkyo_ : what you can see by this though is that saying what is reality is not so easy...its all perception and each view is distorted

Laurelovely01 : ok

Mykkyo_ : now for V's question
Mykkyo_ : yes both are illusion, but like the example above is there really any difference between them
Mykkyo_ : ok

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : isn’t any difference between them?

Mykkyo_ : suffering is caused by those things we believe can cause us happiness

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : by the belief of happiness?

Mykkyo_ : nothing can cause you to be happy, a flower cant effect you from its side in any way
Mykkyo_ : its only your perception that creates the happiness
Mykkyo_ : and when the flower dies you suffer, because of attachments to things

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : so by taking enjoyment in such things is an illusion?

Mykkyo_ : no, but not seeing them for what they really are is...you should enjoy a flower but it should not cause you suffering
Mykkyo_ : when it dies
Mykkyo_ : its kind of like the coin post on the message board right now
Mykkyo_ : happiness and sadness are complementary sides of the same coin, through knowing one you will know the other....and eventually you will see them as the same and the suffering will subside

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : but then wont the enjoyment?

Mykkyo_ : no, you see your still making them separate

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : pleeze let me elaborate

Mykkyo_ : k

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : if suffering and enjoyment are one in the same as u say they are
Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : how can one diminish with out the other diminishing?

Mykkyo_ : neither diminishes, neither increases they simply change to reality

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : there we go

Mykkyo_ : you don’t want to try and eliminate the bad things in life
Mykkyo_ : you want them to change
Mykkyo_ : like pounding on a piano
Mykkyo_ : makes a horrid noise
Mykkyo_ : but removing the keys
Mykkyo_ : does not make for better music
Mykkyo_ : though enlightenment it will change, its still there but it no longer effects you in the same way, you see it for what it truly is
Mykkyo_ : understand?

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : lol
Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : sure
Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : ty

Mykkyo_ : there are hard concepts to teach this way, Buddhist Philosophy is very hard to grasp

Laurelovely01 : I can see how it would be easier to talk it than type it
Laurelovely01 : if that makes sense

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : laurel you know detachment is when Kellog and such speak of it
Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : what*

Mykkyo_ : it is much easier in person yes, but we will do our best here

intense_female : okay Mykkyo I have a question........

Mykkyo_ : k

intense_female : If life throws you a total piece of shit
intense_female : and you cant get away from it
intense_female : what do you do with it?

Laurelovely01 : yes wormy I recognized that part

Rûthlëss_Víllåiñ : that’s all there is

Mykkyo_ : if the situation can be changed why worry over it, if it cant be changed will worrying help?

intense_female : okay so emotional detachment
intense_female : I got it

Mykkyo_ : so

intense_female : now what about what I call flow....

Mykkyo_ : no, no detachment at all

intense_female : you just know that all will be better soon?
intense_female : no?

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