Introduction to Buddism
�?Concept of Self and Other
taught by Mykkyo
intense_female : MYKKYO !
intense_female : Welcome
Mykkyo_ : hey all
Máidën : hi Mykkyo
Laurelovely01 : welcome Mykkyo
Mykkyo_ : how is everyone tonight
Mantis__Knight : beaten
Rûthlëss_VÃllÃ¥iñ : abra cadabra
intense_female : wonderful !
Máidën : mykkyo what does your name mean
Mykkyo_ : secret teachings or esoteric
Máidën : cool Mykkyo
Mykkyo_ : Japanese
Mykkyo_ : who has had some experiences in Buddhism?
Laurelovely01 : I’ve had a very little explained to me
intense_female : well Mykkyo I shared my limited experience
Rûthlëss_VÃllÃ¥iñ : I have
Mykkyo_ : extensive or just a passing fancy?
Rûthlëss_VÃllÃ¥iñ : in between
Mykkyo_ : ok then much of this topic will be new then for you all
intense_female : yes
intense_female : Mykko begin when you choose
Mykkyo_ : what I intend to do is run off with the mouth for a bit, so if you have questions just hold them for a few
Mykkyo_ : Well I would like to preface everything we are going to talk about with a few little things that I would like everyone to understand.
Mykkyo_ : I don’t consider myself a teacher in anyway, this is because I feel I still have so much that I must learn and come to understand myself.
Mykkyo_ : Nor do I consider myself enlightened, although that is where I wish to be someday, so its important that you understand that what I will say is from an intellectual point of view, not the wisdom mind of enlightenment.
Mykkyo_ : I decided to accept the request to speak about Buddhism for the sole reason that imparting this knowledge to those who wish to here it, is part of the path to enlightenment.
Mykkyo_ : ok everyone with me?
intense_female : yep
Mantis__Knight : nope but that’s a good sign for me
Laurelovely01 : yes
Mykkyo_ : OK then, as many of you may know, there are many topics in Buddhist thought that in some ways can be very difficult to relate to
Mykkyo_ : The most common of these is self and other. The general consensus with individuals that are unaware of the teachings of
Buddhism tend to believe Buddhists think that nothing anywhere including ourselves exist,
Mykkyo_ : in some ways this is true but not on the Nihilist level that most take it to mean.
Mykkyo_ : So then today we will talk a little about self and other, what it means, how it effects each of us and how we might benefit from applying this concept to our daily lives.
Mykkyo_ : Before we dive in though I need to define for you what is meant by the two words, self and other as they relate to Buddhist thought.
Mykkyo_ : Self: this is the belief in a part of you that exists inherently without relationship to anything, a permanent abiding ‘thing�?like Christianity’s ‘soul�? If you believe in this concept please take a moment and locate it for me.
Mykkyo_ : If you happen to find exactly where it is, please let me know. JJ
Mykkyo_ : well thats that =)
Mykkyo_ : ready to continue?
Mykkyo_ : Other: now like self, things/others are described in the same way. They have no inherent existence of there own, meaning without their relationship with your mind or you they have no means to effect you in anyway.
Mykkyo_ : Its important to understand we are not talking about your physical body or physical objects here in terms of whether you are really siting there reading this.
Mykkyo_ : But in terms of anything’s ability to effect you in some permanent way without its dependence on you for its existence to begin with.
Mykkyo_ : That concept maybe a little hard to grasp, but here in a minute I will clarify what I mean by that.
Mykkyo_ : so then we will get to the good stuff =)
Mykkyo_ : So then, have you ever had a dream that you became so involved in that you forgot you where dreaming? Because you dreamed, ignorant of the truth that it was just a dream.
Mykkyo_ : The thing that we call “self�?in the dream seamed as completely real as the objects/others and even time itself in the dream.
Mykkyo_ : In fact the self of the dream was so deeply immersed in the dream that, if in the dream, someone would have told you that you are just dreaming you would have never believed it.
Mykkyo_ : Both the world of the dream and the self and others of the dream felt real and concrete and appeared to exist completely separate from the creation of your mind.
Mykkyo_ : It wasn’t until you woke up that, shocked, you realize it was nothing more then a dream. During sleep an individual is ignorant of the truth of the dream or the apparent reality of the dream,
Mykkyo_ : much like hallucinations the individual believes that the mere appearances of the mind truly exist.
Mykkyo_ : In many ways it can be compared to the effect encountered when an individual takes LSD, the drug-effected mind becomes completely removed from the truth or true nature of the illusion appearing to the mind as a result of the drug.
Mykkyo_ : And in the same way, a person becomes trapped within a dream because they are ignorant of the cause.
Mykkyo_ : For example, if the blades of grass under the feet of a person in a drug induced state suddenly turn to worms, that person cannot separate from the belief in the inherent existence of that appearance.
Mykkyo_ : In other words the worms are completely real and not just a creation of the mind. Now, the mind believing this illusion to be true attaches conditioned responses to these appearances,
Mykkyo_ : so if your normal response to worms is fear or repulse then POOF, like magic, these quality filled feelings appear.
Mykkyo_ : Then immediately the hallucinating mind, unaware of its sole role as the creator of this loathsome scene, grasps at the images as ‘real�?and responses with fear and dread.
Mykkyo_ : Now, much in the same way as a person dreaming or people on LSD, we through the conditioning of our minds, have come to place these same qualities to things and others we contact in our waking lives.
Mykkyo_ : Although they appear to be real or existing in a way separate from the actions of the mind of the perceiver,
Mykkyo_ : in actually every appearance of every object and other is completely dependent on the mind of the perceiver for its existence.
Mykkyo_ : everyone with me, anyone totally confused?
whofeelslove0 : not yet
intense_female : I'm here
whofeelslove0 : so am I
Mykkyo_ : then we will go on
whofeelslove0 : k
Mykkyo_ : There are two elements to every illusion, the appearance of the object or other and the self of the observer who believes the illusion and reacts to it.
Mykkyo_ : The self is established only In relation to objects and others. So if lost within the illusion, the self, identifying itself in terms of its relationship to those things and others-
Mykkyo_ : i.e. “I like this, not that�? “this is good, that is bad�? “this is mine, that is yours�?and so on - is also an illusion. How both elements of the illusion exist is dependent on the mind of the perceiver of the
illusion.
Mykkyo_ : Because the perceiver is ignorant or not aware of the true nature of what is appearing and the self of the illusion becomes stuck within that ignorant state.
Mykkyo_ : Every individual is truly doing the best they can within the limitations of the conditioned existence that grasps at the dualities of life.
Mykkyo_ : It is the natural action of the conditioned mind that when positing the position of “here�?the position of “there�?is simultaneously implied.
Mykkyo_ : It is the belief in the inherent existence of the separateness of these things, from one another
as well as from self, which is the reference point for all concepts.
intense_female : wait
Mykkyo_ : k
intense_female : the last paragraph
intense_female : laymens terms?
Mykkyo_ : the separateness of things and others, there is no difference between them
Mykkyo_ : and it is our belief that they are separate that causes much of the illusion we live in
Mykkyo_ : better?
intense_female : yep
Mykkyo_ : k
Mykkyo_ : Thus causing living beings to remain locked tightly within the conceptual prisons of they’re own minds, and the continuation of the cycle of death and re-birth.
intense_female : ty
Mykkyo_ : everyone still here or need a break?
Laurelovely01 : I’m completely lost
Mykkyo_ : well that to be expected somewhat
intense_female : yeah I'm kinda lost too
Mykkyo_ : i will explain more on the topics you need clarification on
intense_female : okay can i paraphrase what i think ...?
intense_female : and you can correct me
Mykkyo_ : k
intense_female : okay so we are submerged in a reality
intense_female : that is a shared reality
intense_female : but its an illusion?
Mykkyo_ : no
intense_female : ack
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