Mantis__Knight : what are you planning on teaching?

Kellog_bluff : I never plan anything, mantis. The Deadies do the all the planning...

Mantis__Knight : well I wanted to know kellog, I only get another hour here.

Kellog_bluff : ah. Are you also chasing something, mantis? only one more hour? here?

Mantis__Knight : I got to go to bed early tonight.

Kellog_bluff : well - thanks for being here tonite then. Ah - go to bed?

Mantis__Knight : yes. I got me a job to start in the morning.

Kellog_bluff : so the 1 more hr - is your structure so you get enuf beddy bye? Keep the temple strong?

Mantis__Knight : no so that I get enough time to practice.

Kellog_bluff : don't you practice when you sleep, mantis?

Mantis__Knight : not that I know of.

Kellog_bluff : ah - then you perhaps practice when you don't know it? But not knowing it - you are only hearing about it, now?

Mantis__Knight : I think it does me no good if I don't know it.

Kellog_bluff : may I differ with you, mantis. The practice I speak of...does not require your conscious attendance, although it would assist things if you were there.

Mantis__Knight : I know, but I am not yet ready to learn that way.

Kellog_bluff :. Sure ya are. You're always ready.

Mantis__Knight : I'm not and I know it.

Kellog_bluff : it's not bad to know your limitations, mantis, but what else are you here for, if not learning? perhaps to play in the sand....

Mantis__Knight : that's just it I'm concisely learning and expanding.

Kellog_bluff : chase the caterpillars. beat up on the butterfly. Mantis - learning concisely - is not much good where words don't go, but it is ok for here, and now.

Mantis__Knight : and I'm learning to take that step.

Kellog_bluff : trying to try, to start to begin, to attempt. Do you also warm up for eating, by eating? chomp. chomp. spit/gurgle. gahhh/gahhh. swallow. gulp. hhmmmmm good. gimme gime gime gimee another.

Kellog_bluff : it's a dream, mantis my lad. It's a dream, and then..... you wake up.... and it's another dream!!!!!! and then,..ya wake up, but your still in a dream..

Mantis__Knight : I just know and admit to my current limitations while looking for the way out.

Kellog_bluff : oh. so you want to know where the door out, is?

Mantis__Knight : I'm not sure

Kellog_bluff : it's right behind that great big black shadow ---- over in the corner. or in your nightmare.

Mantis__Knight : I think I want to know how to open the door when I want to, not when it is opened for me. I'm not afraid of anything. Nor do I fear. I do know when I'm in danger. but death is only the beginning, so why fear it?

Kellog_bluff : that's reassuring. so you are much brave? but you don't use the sleep period for training, eh?

Mantis__Knight : I used to, but not in the way you are saying, I used hypnosis to program my mind while I slept. But I to put it lightly fucked up.

Kellog_bluff : after you started it?

Mantis__Knight : I screwed my self up for a bit.

Kellog_bluff : and so - you are now unafraid of nothing?

Mantis__Knight : became anti-social. No I saw what I did wrong; I tried to cheat to get rid of my fears, and all I did was make it worse. I became paranoid. I'm getting better and worse.

Kellog_bluff : by hypnosis.....

Mantis__Knight : that's the only thing I can think of.

Kellog_bluff : and now......you will not use the darkness to upset that balance, right?

Mantis__Knight : no I don't use hypnosis any more…I realized that you cant use just one…that you cant appreciate it without the other. Perfection isn't a goal when that all there is, so I admitted to my faults; that I had problems I need to work at.

Kellog_bluff : and that made you feel better? ah.

Mantis__Knight : immensely.

Kellog_bluff : and now -- how do you feel?

Mantis__Knight : was doing good but recent events have stopped me.

Kellog_bluff : stopped you? what event stopped you?

Mantis__Knight : its hard to explain but ill try. I'm a developing TK. but as I go I see what others can do.

Kellog_bluff : why TK?

Mantis__Knight : because its what I wanted all my life.

Kellog_bluff : and what does it matter, what others can do.?

Mantis__Knight : that's just it I see them doing it and say why cant I, so I try.

Kellog_bluff : you actually say that?

Mantis__Knight : and I might I might not. It doesn't make me mad when cant.

Kellog_bluff : you see birds fly by - and say why not? So you become a pilot.

Mantis__Knight : but I've started to see things. ppl I meet in my day. I see there lies and it hurt me to realize how much ppl lie. How much they cover up; how false ppl are and I have to learn to deal with it.

Kellog_bluff : and this is news to you?

Mantis__Knight : yes to me.

Kellog_bluff : geez. where did ya grow up? silver spoon, Arkansas?

Mantis__Knight : Arkansas

Kellog_bluff : ok - I get it now. Lies. No full-monicas for you, eh?

Mantis__Knight : to me its hard.

Kellog_bluff : mantis - the fact that people Lie - has nothing to do with your progress in TK.

Mantis__Knight : I know that; I just meant that I see now that I can do what I want.

Kellog_bluff : so what is the deal, squeal? You could Always do what you want.

Mantis__Knight : its just hard for me to know that ppl lie so much and I want to know why.

Kellog_bluff : get over it. They Lie - because they Can.

Mantis__Knight : that's what I'm trying to do, to get over it...... but it takes time.

Kellog_bluff : you got burned, huh?

Mantis__Knight : I'm not sure I understand you.

Kellog_bluff : it takes the time it takes, ta write this sentence.

Mantis__Knight : for you maybe

Kellog_bluff : cop-out, kid.

Mantis__Knight : I have to work through it

Kellog_bluff : geez.

Mantis__Knight : see if there is a point its the way I am and it works for me…

Kellog_bluff : is this a construction job, or what?

Mantis__Knight : I may take longer getting to the end but ill get there…

Kellog_bluff : of course there is a point. The point is; if people wanna Lie - they are responsible for what they do - and the freedom to be able to lie - and the fun - and the pain - and the gain. Don't take it personally, mantis. I'm just gagging ya a bit. Ya been spoon fed too much. Ya gotta get through that stuff.

Mantis__Knight : considering for the most part I've had to feed myself I don't thing a spoon was involved.

Kellog_bluff : mantis ---- it doesn't matter if people are peachy or not. Until ya get to where ya can Soar. then ya realize All People matter.

Mantis__Knight : I'm not sure you understand I don't care that its wrong to lie or anything; I just want to know why they do it instead of the simple truth. I lie, its a part of life.

Kellog_bluff : I didn't bring morality into this.

Mantis__Knight :. ok

Kellog_bluff : simple truth - is usually anything but... and if it affects ya so much...ya been dragged in also. Your etiquette should allow for this. It doesn't matter - if people lie. You address them the same way. What they Do- does not affect Who you Are.....unless you allow it. But you are curious...and that is not all bad at all. Just don't get mucked down by the 'why" of it all...people do things - for as many reasons as there are people. Ya spend a goodly time trying ta catalog it.

Mantis__Knight : yes I've been told that and I'm trying, that knowing and doing are not completely linked.

Kellog_bluff : well - let's see. my knowing, and doing - are well linked because my doing - is based on Intent. And intent - is based on Knowing. Not-Knowing...is based on Knowing but not caring. Not-knowing is not ignorance.... it is the realization of something outside understanding. It's illumination in the subtle things, mantis - that you will find this Not-knowing and it will help you find the calmness for your question on Lies. capishe?

Mantis__Knight : not completely but I will think on it.

Kellog_bluff : at least - you are working on it and your best - will be fine for us. The test has started...there is No time limit. "no looking at your neighbor's paper."

Mantis__Knight : I do have a question…

Kellog_bluff : of course you do...

Mantis__Knight : lol

Kellog_bluff : and it is?

Mantis__Knight : I always have a question.

Kellog_bluff : it's ok. I did too, when young. now I just drool, and ask - when is Hollywood squares on?

Mantis__Knight : I've asked someone about it but cant remember; do you have any tips on astral projection?

Kellog_bluff : astral projection? tips? is the Pope catholic? Tips? like - when do ya use the second fork?

Mantis__Knight : well actually I work with spoons… but I can go in my mind any where ive been from memory.

Kellog_bluff : mantis - have ya been to the SLC site? Many writing there on astral caca. some of the writings aren't under "out of body" but still address it. so - what specific 'tip' are you screeching for?

Mantis__Knight : I cant concisely do it. Just curious.

Kellog_bluff says: "quiet down Mr. Baso" .....concisely, eh?

Mantis__Knight : yes

Kellog_bluff : curious?

Mantis__Knight : I cant spell either.

Kellog_bluff : whatever IS your question, grasshopper?

Mantis__Knight : but I know why I cant spell

Kellog_bluff : see the pebble in my hand?

Mantis__Knight : no

Kellog_bluff : you're pretty good - if ya can see the pebble, Since I'm sitting on it. Mr. Baso says your chomping.

Mantis__Knight : I missed the chomping part.

Kellog_bluff : mantis - what is your question on astral caca? what kind of tip do you seek?

Mantis__Knight : just how to do it or how you know when you are…

Kellog_bluff : that is two questions.

Mantis__Knight : I said or.

Kellog_bluff : we have talked ad nausea about how to do it, here : but I'll give you a quick simple portent for 'when" ya know. I refer here to lucid travel; travel in the conscious versus dream/sleep travel or dream travel, when ya grab the Portent and make it lucid. If ya don't understand the terms, ya gotta refer to SLC site. This way - I keep it simple.

Okay, here it is:

One of the simplest ways ta be Aware that astral traveling is happening, Now, is the awareness of the 360 degrees. When ya get Out there - it's like ya can See --- all around ya. In 360 degrees. Its a trip it takes getting used to. That's where your focus comes in. Otherwise ya get overwhelmed by the seeing of everything the 360 degrees AND YA BOUNCE Right back inside. Bummer. I went ta an ECK meeting once and described this ta the teacher. Thinking it was normal for everyone, right? Then discovered Not everyone does this automatically... duhhhhh. Got kicked out of meeting.. My teacher back then set me up on that one. Sent me ta the meeting with the blubber-boy story so I would get stomped ----- verbally speaking.

So- the 360 degrees... look for it, cuz it's a sure-fire portent. Another thing.. If ya can get past the WHIZBANG of that event, it's like wherever ya next think of.... that's where ya go. Bamm. Beam me out Scotty. Way cool. But most of the time....until ya get organized... ya really just go anywhere your emotions take ya. If your horney,- ya go to the sex wheel. If your sad - ya might go to a funeral. No telling where ya go --- but ya Go. Ya come back with a strange but wonderful dream.

A final thing - and another Portent for astral traveling: This one is for when ya have gone to the far Side. Maybe near Causal. You'll have a dream - maybe not remember alot of it. But you'll be talking/working with someone. And ya Won't wanna leave. You'll come back - and you'll feel like crying, real bad crying. You'll be sorrowful, but not really sure why --- and the reason will be fading as you awake. So that all your left with - is the sadness. It's a trip. Very hard to describe. But if/when ya get that experience, come see me.

Cuz I'll then be able ta share mine better with ya and you'll give me an understanding of mine as well. But that SADNESS ..... geexz.....it tears ya right up. Much more than losing a loved one......

It's like the Most Perfect anguish, is the only way I can describe it....is to explain that I was in the Presence of the Creator........ and I had to leave. That explanation is not very good - but hopefully you get the drift. Once you experience it- you'll come back and tell me, "hey Kellog..Wow!" No way to describe it , until then, mantis - ok?

Mantis__Knight : I see

Kellog_bluff : I surely hope you will, as you really wish to. And I think you will. --- but stop chomping.

Mantis__Knight : must learn to crawl before I fly; I missed the chomping part

Kellog_bluff : Chomping means you're taking too many big bites at the Astral McDonalds. J babies know how to fly before they learn to crawl tally -ho

Simple_Dream : How can one seek to develop greater empathy for humanity as a whole, and at the same time remove yourself from caring about other people's falls and imoralities? Why would you even want to remove yourself? Intense says detachment-- and I can see some purpose in that, but not all the time.

Kellog_bluff : all the time, simple. all the time. There needs to be a Balance.

Simple_Dream : ok, this is why I have some problem with that--- detachment is something I practiced most of my life-- always looking inward-- and it brought much wisdom-- however...

Kellog_bluff : I didn't say always looking inward. s'ok.

Simple_Dream : true spiritual awakening did not begin till I started to break down the spiritual wall between myself and the rest of the world, universe, and people…

Kellog_bluff : gulp. chomp. address/accept/release. Question: What part of that equation - holds empathy?

Simple_Dream : all three

Kellog_bluff : and what part holds detachment?

Simple_Dream : the last two-- but only in part

Kellog_bluff : I don't say - don't have empathy. I say - be aware the need for balance. Ya can't solve anyone else's spiritual issues, until you are at peace with yours.

Simple_Dream : but is seemed earlier-- you were telling mantis that he needed to detach himself from caring at all whether other people lie.

Kellog_bluff : yes I did. It matters not - if people lie. What matters - is that he is truthful with himself.

Simple_Dream : but I care--- and it is that sort of care-- that has finally allowed me to awaken

Kellog_bluff : you may think so. I would not say caring is "bad". If caring works for you- and gets you to your Mind's eye destination.....then buy the ticket. But be aware just where that destination is.

Simple_Dream : its difficult to accept that in other people--- and that is part of the process-- but accepting it so that you may love them anyway--- and accepting lying as the best way of life for them-- are two very different things

Kellog_bluff : yes. Difficult, but you have a basic grasp of the difficulty... and that is a step. A long step outward. Just don't trip on the righteousness of the empathy.

Simple_Dream : I think you should accept the people, but not the lies

Kellog_bluff : accept whatever you can handle, then. lies matter about as much as honesty-

Simple_Dream : you accept the lies as part of the people--- but you work against the lies-- not the people--- you get into a little bit of paradox here-- but nothing wrong with that

Kellog_bluff : nothing at all, lies are always so bothersome for the righteous, ya ever notice? If you accept the precept that one is responsible for their Intent, then let the chips fall. If they lie--- it's their lie. Their responsibility. Their etiquette.

Simple_Dream : so then as a spiritually awakened person who understands that lies and honesty are no more important than one another--- do you not monitor the tendency to lie in yourself? do you allow your lies and truths to flow freely unchecked?

Kellog_bluff : monitor? Ya mean like------ what's up in MY head tonite? Yee gawds

Simple_Dream : monitor or shape the intent of that which you speak? based on truth?

Kellog_bluff : my etiquette shapes my Intent

Simple_Dream : why not the other way around?

Kellog_bluff : I have found I can use honesty without lies. but if I needed to lie - and it was Proper -- I would. I learned I don't have to lie- if I am impeccable. so it became a matter of form, like covering your mouth when ya burp.

Simple_Dream : when is it proper to lie? give an example? one of consequence-- not a simple white lie to make someone feel better about their appearance

Kellog_bluff : for me - lies are a clumsy gesture. give an example? rather demanding aren't we tonite?

Simple_Dream : not demanding at all. you can choose to speak what you wish

Kellog_bluff : read everything I have just read....and an example will easily come for you.

a lie about dying, a lie about reading someone's future, a lie about pain. To decide to spare one from suffering - as a gesture of empathy. It is a gesture only - that person may require the pain, to grow.

Simple_Dream : but do you spare them with lies? or simply keep them from falling when they need to-- keep them from learning to seek the true answers within?

Kellog_bluff : my point.

Simple_Dream : I gotcha

Kellog_bluff : cool

Simple_Dream : so--- are you ever irritated by other's poor etiquette?

Kellog_bluff : irritated? Only when they interrupt, as I perpetuate the monologue and bring it to a new level of boredom

Simple_Dream : lol

Kellog_bluff : art form. It takes yrs to learn this.

Simple_Dream : so it is your job to bore us till we have no escape but to look inward?

Kellog_bluff : sitting at the feet of teachers....(gawds what smelly feet they had) Bore you with a 4-by-4. yada... yada ... yada

i_m_whitedragon : and we will smile and thank you like usual

Kellog_bluff : till you stop chomping

Simple_Dream : so-- why even teach? why not let each person learn everything on their own?

Kellog_bluff : and as usual, your welcome. who says you don't learn on your own? Who feels the pain, in the early hours of the morning? who has the grief? Who is lonely - who needs the companion....

Simple_Dream : what makes you wish to teach?

Kellog_bluff : the very thing that makes you come to this room. See....it's a due paying thing. Someone helped me..... now I pay back

Simple_Dream : the very thing that makes Mantis care if other people lie

Kellog_bluff : not exactly, but you get the idea. There is no empathy in it. There is only a feeling of "this is what I do".

Simple_Dream : no empathy in teaching? ok

Mantis__Knight : I already got my mouth crammed full don't bring me back in

Kellog_bluff : you asked Me why..........

Mantis__Knight : yes I asked you

Kellog_bluff : I'm sure others have other reasons. but my reason - is personal - and has to do with a giving back. Time and sweat spent...... and a request to pass it on. I am fulfilling the request. I suspect you'll find others with a similar idea. It doesn't have to do with Caring, exactly; it have to do with doing what is Proper, based on my etiquette.

i_m_whitedragon : so we asking to be hit with the 4by4?

Kellog_bluff : I've heard it from some myself. Dragon - part of you IS asking and that is the part I address. As usual - it is a subtle connection, and my privilege.

Simple_Dream : so you do community work for purely objective reasons-- and none of that silly self destructive and still selfish humanitarian bull?

Kellog_bluff : community work ----- pro Bono.

Simple_Dream : well we are glad you are here kellog

Kellog_bluff : I have a debt to repay. Period. It's always nice to work a crowd. Mr. Baso says " yada" but he likes to hear the thankyou's just the same.

i_m_whitedragon : so there is always a debt to be paid by someone who is taught something "valuable" to them?

Kellog_bluff : I wouldn't know.

Simple_Dream : is it pro bono-- if there is a debt being repaid though? I mean there is no money exchanged-- but it seems to still be about an exchange of energy or power

Kellog_bluff : you're right, dream - yes. exchange - power. Sharp. Good catch. T's got a few sharp Babes.

intense_female : yes Kellog we do thank you for coming by

Kellog_bluff : again - thanks Room, for the opportunity to smack you with my teachers' yowling and my farting.

Mantis__Knight : yes thank you kellog

i_m_whitedragon : thanks for the beating, may I have another? lol

Kellog_bluff : as always - a privilege.

Mantis__Knight : lol

intense_female : lol