Witan© : ok

Witan© : and those things would be?                                                 

Witan© : Are you asking how can you tell the difference or are you asking what the difference is

Witan© : during sleep the aura expands it basically doubles in volume, this is so that it can draw in nervous energy from the surrounding aether. During this we dream. we will either have a mind at play dream

laurelovely : what is aether?

Witan© : so what is the astral plane made of?

laurelovely : energy

Mantis__Knight : thoughts

Witan© : and that energy or thought is called?

laurelovely : aether

Witan© : Its the same thing the aura is made of

so the astral plane and the aetheric polnae are the same thing so while sleeping the aura expands and draws in nervous energy we have three types of dream

Mind at play - this is typically just as it says the mind having fun, relaxing unwinding and playing with possibilities

Mind at work - This is where the mind goes over the days events and attempts to understand them

Path Working -or- Astral Projection - In all its various guises.

During astral projection the surreal quality of dream is replaced by an impressionist feeling/seeing. All dreams occur in the 'astral'. During sleep you are projected its all projection. But most dreams, MOST have NO meaning. Most dreams are the mind playing. They have psychological meaning but spiritual its just sleep.

During 'projection' your aura doesnt actually leave the body your mind is projected out instead of in. Is the key difference.

Want to know if you are out of body, look at your hands, look at your feet, think of a familiar place and find it with thought, look for landmarks that validate you are in the world rather than in your own mind or in a pocket reality. Are we cool or should i clarify, if so what do you want clarified?

Question:

isnt it true though that if your on astral you may appear as a light rather than in your body, depending on the level/plane

Witan© : lol no and yes

Witan© : level plane etc is not relevant its all you

Witan© : if you dont require a body you dont have one

Witan© : many people project and never have a body or only have a body

Witan© : many are always amorphous. If you look to see if its there you are creating it. If you didnt need to validate the reality of teh experience you wouldnt look

Astral is aether its is universal it is therefore chi it is spirit its whatever the hell you want to call it

Your dreaming body is always in teh dream

Witan© : just because most people ignore the dream of being awake doesnt mean dreaming is not occuring

Witan© : heres a better way to imagine it

Witan© : 24 hours a day everyone is asleep and awake to a varying degree when you close your eyes and lay down you are more asleep but still awake and vise versa, when you close your eyes and go fully asleep we call that death

intense_female : so then..

Witan© : yes?

intense_female : seeing thru our third eye is actually

Witan© : Yes. Astral perception

intense_female : thank you Witan that makes alot of sense

Witan© : np

laurelovely : ok, may i ask part 2

Witan© : yes

laurelovely : how can i gain better control of my own astral travelling experiences in my awake state....let me explain

laurelovely : this has been happening recently.....

laurelovely : i am sitting at my computer....or wherever...but mostly when at the computer.....

laurelovely : and i will feel the sensation of floating....i go into a somewhat trancelike state... laurelovely : and sometimes i just go....

laurelovely : a couple of times i have called out for help ....like moon will take my hand ...

laurelovely : but i just want better control

laurelovely listening

Mindmeld�?: ok

Mindmeld�?: so when you center all you have to do is hold the intent to help

Mindmeld�?: when you do this spirit takes over for you

Mindmeld�?: what I do is I feel it grow in me then I send it out to who I am working with ..

Mindmeld�?: is this making sence? ...

laurelovely : yes mind, very much ...

laurelovely : but i am not doing anything at the point i feel the floating ....

laurelovely : i am not working with anyone

Mindmeld�?: ok

Mindmeld�?: be with it

Mindmeld�?: and alow it to take you but remember to ground

Witan© : laurel what mind i saying is when you float away you are floating into an abyss of unknown

Mindmeld�?: imagion a ambilical coard attached to you

Witan© : by clinging to an intent you have a rope around your waist

Mindmeld�?: yup

Witan© : it doesnt matter what the intent is or if there is another person

Mindmeld�?: intent is everything in aiding one in healing

Mindmeld�?: when you go off to play in the abiss then your intent is not important

Witan© : ok, are we all ready?

OK so laurel asked i question i said write it down, this opens a big ugly door that should have been the first thing everyone learned hwne it comes to parlor tricks.

So heres something most of ya wont like at all: Spirituality and astral projection are not directly related. In fact all the parlor tricks that are discussed here are just that parlor tricks. They arent spiritulal in nature just different. It does happen that developing a spiritual identity saves one from insanity, this is a good thing. hahahahaha.

So what are we doing, you wanna learn projection or increase your control you want powers or to identify with spirit you want to do any of this things great welcome to the club but, these abilities are not solely for those into love and light your religion isnt really relevant to the outcome it is only relevant to the process by which you get that. We are all psychonauts. A psychonaut is an explorer of the mind. Thats what these abilities are about. So you want to be a good explorer, thats really whats going on. So heres what every good explorer does regardless of the field :

Whats in your way laurel is simply fear, fear is called by many names: the first gatekeeper ... a demon ... whatever. It is still just fear.

You write down your fears and it becomes cognitive rather than emotional and loses the related panic. Fear good = Panic bad. Writing it down tells your subconcious that its important. It brings the experience into the intellect and improves your control as well as opening teh door for further experimentation. So you got anything you want to improve write it down. Keep your journal up to date and experiemnt. Whats the worst thing that could happen? Maybe you'll go insane? Well who says you arent already? Maybe youll die well guess what if you live afraid to try what you want you'll be miserbale right? But, really your not really risking much by experiemnting its when you dont that you risk everything.

Razeil_bp : Sanity is defined as the ability to decern right from wrong

Laurel: By stopping myself from floating...im feeling fear and panicing....so you are suggesting to just go and experiment and see where it leads ....then return and document it? Witan is that right ?

Witan :Write down everything that has happened and everything that happens when panic hits you can back away write it down then next time go a little further.

So a little clarification is in order... a parlor trick is not smoke and mirrors. It is a trick in that it is not our goal. It is not the end result to spirituality. It is a series of tools we explore as a means to further our understanding of ourselves and thereby the outside world. The important point is that this is a spiritual learning center and as such these skills are parlor tricks because you can gain enlightenment without ever learning to control projection. They are helpful skills but unneccessary