Build on the True Foundation

Important Announcement

The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More

From: joie (Original Message)

Sent: 8/24/2005 5:27 PM

~ Should preachers be paid a salary? ~

1Cor 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? 9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

Now do you see here that Paul said that if he partakes of this power of reaping their carnal things, that it would HINDER the gospel of Christ?

1Cor 9:16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel! 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me. 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

Now let’s compare the above with the present day preachers. How many of them do you suppose could say necessity was laid upon them to preach the gospel? How many of them just ‘decided�?this was a lucrative field of ‘work�? How many are truly sent out there with the true message of God, by God? I say it would be very hard to find any.

Notice verse 17..he said if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward. Verse 18.. What is my reward then? Verily that, I make the gospel of Christ WITHOUT CHARGE.

God just revealed this to me:

1Cor 9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?

I knew in my spirit this thing was not saying a preacher should be paid. I know that is against all true principals of God. Now I seek God until He shows me the truth. You all would do well to do so also. Seek and ye shall find. I just found. Read on:

What is this Scripture really speaking of? Money? No. The carnal minded always take it to that. But God never took it to that. The NT is never dealing with money. Even the OT was not dealing with money as I have already proven. The tithe was NEVER money. It was natural FOOD to feed those who laboured in that temple work.

The blessing God promised to pour out from the windows of heaven was certainly NOT MONEY. It was the Holy Ghost. Do you want this blessing? Do the preachers? No! They want mammon. { I meant to only do a short reply thing here; but with this revelation, I will do a full message.}

Now back to the Scripture. Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? Is he saying at his own money? No. Now I know it looks this way....but not spiritual. Who sends himself into battle? No one. His commander must charge him what to do, where and how to do it. God is our Commander. He charges us, or give us the orders and also he has the faith, as Paul did, to believe God would supply his needs for this warfare work.

Who planteth a vineyard and eateth not of the fruit? Now what is the ‘fruit�?of the NT vineyards? Is it money? No. It is the revelation of the Word of God. It is the fruit of the Spirit of God. So, it is saying that if one teaches these things of God, then he himself must also be partaker of them. In other words, he needs to live what he preaches. He should not say, do not commit adultery and then go out and do this sin himself.

If he preaches the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then he must also have received it. He must partake of this fruit himself.

Who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Now is this money? No! What is the milk of the Word? Is ‘money�?the milk of the word? Is money the milk we feed the flock of God. No! Milk is the foundational teachings of the Word. What is the ‘flock�? Is it natural sheep? Of course not. It is the babes of God. If one feeds this flock of God, then that one must also eat the very same milk he is giving out.

Now I am telling you, God himself just revealed this to me. I knew in my spirit this Scripture was not being interpreted right. So I could not let it alone. I had gotten off the computer to do some work, but this message was still on my mind. I started not to come back and write on it. But I knew in my heart that if I did not, I would forget what God was showing me. Then He opened this up to me, and I knew it was the real and true answer to this passage of Scripture. This is just like when He revealed the truth to me about tithing. It was never money.

See Scripture cannot cross any other Scripture. If God said by the prophet, come buy without money and without price, then all other Scripture must be true to this principle. And this is the true revelation of 1Cor. 9.

Now watch this:

1Cor 9:8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

Now ask yourself, is this verse dealing with money? No! Did the ox get money for their plowing? Of course not. Was he saying pay the ox or the plowman? No! He was saying the same thing here...that ox may eat of the corn, or FOOD he is treading out. So the preacher must also eat of the Holy Food he is treading out, as I am doing right now. Glory to my God. Praise your precious Name Lord Jesus, that you have mercy on me and feed me the Word of God. Evermore, Lord, feed me the daily BREAD.

Now-- 1Tim 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Now see that Paul went to the very same OT Scripture in 1Tim 5:18 that he did in 1Cor 9:9. But look at verse 17. It reveals what the reward is......double honour. And he said especially to those who labour in the word and doctrine = ministers or teachers. Their reward was NOT money, it was double honour. Now I just wonder why the people today have absolutely no honour for those of us who labour in the Word and doctrine to feed you? Where is mine honour? Now see that he linked the reward with being this honour? He never said a word here about money or pay for this labour in the Word. Where has money even once entered into any of this scripture? It has not been mentioned. Men have changed this Word again to suit their own lust and agenda.

Since Paul used the very same Scripture connected with double honour that he did in 1Cor 9, then it has to be dealing with the same thing in both Books. He is not speaking of money in Corinthians and honour in Timothy.

Now here is what the men who preach for pay are: Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for REWARD, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Balaam went to do a work for earthly reward, or money. This is the error greedy people run after. Core lusted after those goodly Babylonian clothes and that golden wedge. See here was this greed for earthly goods and money again. God condemned it both time. So then, if He condemns this, how is it that He turns around and lets it be the reward for preaching the word? I say it is doctrines of devils.

Rev22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my REWARD is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Now those of us who work for God without earthly pay or reward, will be given our Heavenly reward when Jesus returns.

Lu 6:21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh. Lu 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Lu 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets. Lu 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. Lu 6:25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

Now this is clearly showing that those who are full and have riches in this life have already received their consolation. They will not have a heavenly reward. Money was their reward. It counsels out any heavenly reward.

Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Heb 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompense of the reward.

Now this shows that Moses chose reproach instead of the riches of Egypt. He had respect unto the reward. So was his reward money? Of course not. Money is what he turned his back on. Where are any ‘pastors�?today with this attitude? Are you really being fed by a minister of God?

1Cor 9:6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?

Now what is Paul saying here? Is he saying we have the power not to work so you can keep us up? No. What does ‘forbear�?here mean? It means to abstain from something being forced on them. So he was really saying that they had the faith to not go out and work so their needs would be taken care of this way. They had the faith to wait on God and expect him to provide for them. We know that Paul did work with his hands, yet he is saying I have the faith to not work when I need to be feeding the flock of God. Would he be saying this if he had a set salary coming to him from the churches? No.

1Cor 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

Now is the carnal things speaking of money? No. If money were the subject in this conversation, it would have been mentioned somewhere. Money is never mentioned in this entire chapter. Those running greedily after the error of Balaam are the ones who took this and many other Scriptures to money, when money was never brought into it. He is speaking of natural food or clothing or shelter. He is not speaking of money.

1Cr 9:12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

Here Paul said he had not used this power, lest he should HINDER the gospel of Christ. He is speaking of not looking to them for his food, clothes or shelter or other needs. He is not speaking of them paying him. It is not in focus in this chapter. Even the acceptance of these natural needs would have hindered the gospel, according to Paul, that is if he had expected this of them as pay for his labour among them.

1Cor 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

Now what was the things of the temple and the altar? Was it money? No. You cannot find anywhere in the OT that money was brought and placed on the altar. So what was? Food, those animal sacrifices and the fine flour, corn and wine they used in these feasts. It was never money. In fact they were told they could change these things for money, if they lived too far away from the temple, and then after they arrived, buy back the things they needed for their sacrifice feast. They NEVER took money in and gave it to the priests.

So what does this natural food type? The spiritual food, the Word of God. So...

1Cor 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

He is saying here that those who preach the gospel should partake of the very gospel they preach. This is clearly laid out in Scripture. Jesus said do not say one thing and do another.

So then what about this: 1Cor 9:15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.

Now that makes it look as if he is saying those who preach the gospel should have natural things given to them because they preach. But, no. He is saying in verse 15, that he did not mean for those things about the altar to be done to him. He is not looking to them to feed him. He is only wanting to feed them from heaven. He is not looking to anyone to pay him for preaching the gospel. Anyone who does is a Balaam and Core. They are not true ministers of God. They are greedy of filthy lucre.

By: Jo Smith -

August 24, 2005

From: joie

Sent: 8/24/2005 6:45 PM

<NOBR>1co 9:24</NOBR>	Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
<NOBR>1co 9:25</NOBR>	And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

If they accept money or pay, they are seeking a corruptible crown or reward for their labour. This will keep them from receiving the Heavenly reward, for they have already been 'compensated' with money.

Thus they were not truly doing a work for God, but to receive wages. Therefore the money is their only reward, and they are found to be selling the things of God, which is having the mark of the Beast. The beast church runs by money. The church of God runs by faith.

From: joie

Sent: 8/25/2005 9:13 PM

<NOBR>1pe 5:2</NOBR>	Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
<NOBR>1pe 5:3</NOBR>	Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
<NOBR>1pe 5:4</NOBR>	And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away

Feed the flock of God.......feeding them means giving them the Word of God....taking the oversight = seeing about them, taking care of their spiritual needs, not by constraint, but willingly.....we are not to do this because we feel forced or bound to do so......but because we wish to..,, NOT FOR FILTHY LUCRE.

Now filthy lucre means money received as pay for feeding the flock of God.

Any statement from God is a COMMAND. So he is commanding us here NOT TO DO THIS FOR MONEY.

Then he tells those who feed the flock that they are not to be lords over them.....being lord over them means ruling over them as all pastors do.

Then he shows that these will recieve their reward or crown WHEN JESUS APPEARS.......the reason? they did not receive compensation for the work here....in money. If they do, this is their reward,,,,and they will receive none when He appears. I fully believe they will not be saved....unless they have that crown given to them when Jesus appears.......I say based on this, that taking pay for this feeding the flock, cancels out salvation, for it is clear here, that it is NOT God's way; it is rebellion to God.....so it must be of satan.

Jesus told us as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the end.......so look at how it is today....that is how it was under Adam......up to Noah...they received pay for this work...it was the love of money. This is the ROOT of all evil. it started with Adam. These churches today are exactly in the condition they were in the time of destruction by the flood. If not, then Jesus told us wrong. Look at how it is today; that is how it was then. He said so....so it proves the way it is today is WRONG. He is not speaking of in the world; he is speaking of religion....things pertaining to worship.

From: joie

Sent: 8/25/2005 9:17 PM

OK, so you want Scripture? Sure. So here is one more:

Isa 45:13

I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

This is speaking of Jesus. He did the work of God without price or reward.......so did He teach us God's Way or not? Are we supposed to go by his example, or not? Why does your preacher not go by the example of Jesus?

It is the spirit of adam,,,the love of money.

From: joie

Sent: 8/25/2005 9:24 PM

Ok, one more:;

<NOBR>Isa 55:1</NOBR>	Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
<NOBR>Isa 55:2</NOBR>	Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

Now the waters are those who have the Word to feed the flock of God. He said to the thirsty, come and buy and eat [the Word] without money and without price.

Now, how much plainer could it be? Why do you not believe this Word? Because your false shepherds, with their love for money, have seduced your mind with their lies.

Why do you spend your money for that which is NOT THE TRUE BREAD? Hearken to me and eat ye that which is good.....the fatness of the Word.

That is true for us today.....if we have the true waters to give out.........they are supposed to come to us and drink without giving any money for it. You cannot change this. This is God's way.

Paying for it is buying it, which is the mark of that Beast, Adam. He is satan. He sells it. Jesus and his true ministers GIVE IT OUT.

From: joie

Sent: 8/29/2005 9:28 PM

Jazz, the answer to all those verses is in this message. I already explained each one of those verses right here WITH OTHER SCRIPTURE PROOF...

now you have not shown one single verse saying God's workers are to be paid. So go ahead, give us that verse. Where does it say give money to people who teach the Word? I just want to read that.

that earthly 'reward' cancels out any heavenly reward, which stops their hope for eternal life.

All of God's children are supposed to be workers in that vinyard.....see, this is one of the main sins of this 'paying' the preacher religion....>>>> it causes the 'congregation' to think they are exempt from studying, learning and preaching or witnessing for God.

Now I am going to show you another Scripture proving it causes one to become an enemy of God to do the work of God for PAY, OR REWARD:

<NOBR>Isa 1:21</NOBR>	How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.
<NOBR>Isa 1:22</NOBR>	Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:
<NOBR>Isa 1:23</NOBR>	Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.
<NOBR>Isa 1:24</NOBR>	Therefore saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:

The faithful city was the church. it became an harlot. It is that whore in Rev.

thy princes are rebellious, and companions of THIEVES. {who are they robbing? the people of God as they take money from them}

.....they follow after REWARDS....The rewards are money = pay. these silly preachers will take money for doing funerals, weddings, a little 30 minute sermonet (with maybe 1 minute of Scripture in it)...yet they expect big money for this mess.

and pity of it is they have successfully deceived the hoards or millions of church folks into believing that giving money to them is the way to serve God. such evil!

See that God said they have become his enemies or adversaries. No, as for me, I am not going to give them one penny. I teach more Scripture in one message than any of them do in a life time. I do it free as God said to do.

From: joie

Sent: 8/29/2005 10:04 PM

Do you consider paying the preacher part of your worship? or christian life?

Now I do not have to show any Scripture saying do not pay the preacher....for it was never commanded by God to be done. That settles it.

Now when you can show one Scripture saying we are supposed to pay preachers, then you have it. I will conceed. But just because you do not have the right interpretation of the verses you quote, does not say we should pay the workers of God. I am a worker and a teacher and a preacher.......so why am I not being paid?

I would refuse such a thing.

I am not a hireling.

If God did not say pay the preachers, then it is not supposed to be done. That settles it.

From: Isaiah

Sent: 8/30/2005 2:04 PM

yet in 2 cor 9 paul sends a letter to the corinthian church ahead of time to let them prepare for his arrival so they will have time to set money aside to present to him.( jazz)

Jazz, you are so wrong on the above statement. Paul at no time in Scripture had money set aside to present to him. He said he took no money from anyone, but he worked, tolling with his hands, both day and night still while preaching the gospel. You are very much in errow on the above statement. You have taken from what Paul was saying and you have added your own thoughts.

Now to show you what Paul was saying, we will go to 2 Cor. chapter 9, the one where you so falsely stated that Paul was collecting this money to present to him.

2 Corinthians- 9:1-2-- �?For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:�?/FONT>

009:002-- “For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many�?

( Paul also said in chapter 8:24--“Wherefore shew ye to them, and before the churches, the proof of your love, and of our boasting on your behalf.�? In other words these people had such a zeal that he caused other people to get in the same spirit of giving and love.

009:003-- “Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready:�?( Paul wrote and told them these men were coming and I have been boasting to them about your liberality and your love of giving. Now when they get there don’t make me out to be a lie, you make sure you’ve got a good bounty.)

009:004-- �?Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting�?( In other words Paul was saying that I have been bragging to the people in Macedonia about your love and liberality he said these people may come with me and if you’re not prepared and have this money made up to send to these poor Saints then �?we not you) should be ashamed in this confident boasting.�?/FONT>

009:005 -- “Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness�?( In other words Paul was not going to be a fool so he sent some brothers ahead before he went in there. He sent these brothers ahead of him to tell these people to get the money together, to get their gifts together ahead of time before Paul and these other people got there. So he wouldn’t be ashamed because he had been boasting about how liberal they were. He send them notice ahead of time so that they might have their bounty ready. If you notice Paul went on to say not of covetousness. In other words nobody was coveting their money he just wanted them to show forth the love of God.)

009:006-- “But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully�? The sowing and reaping law is in on this thing. If you don’t want to give much then God is not going to bless you much. If you give a lot, remember the little widow they gave to mites it wasn’t how much she gave it was how much of what she had that she gave that he counted. It’s how much you give of what you have or what you are able to give that God counts.)

009:007-- �?Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver�? You see it is what you purpose to give it was not no law, not no Commandant, not anything else but what you willingly in your heart to give. �?so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.�?( The New Testament way of giving is what you purpose in your heart, what you want to give out of love. There is no law, no commandments, there’s no constraint, you don’t give grudgingly.

009:008-- �?And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:�?( What Paul is saying here is that you give and give and your faith is in God that God is going to supply your needs right back again. He said that if you sew bountifully you’re going to reap bountifully. So if you’re giving more than you can you are living by faith and expecting God to replace it and he will. That blessing Is going to be spiritual and natural. He said “that ye, always having sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work.�? These good works are going to lay up your awards in heaven.)

009:009-- (“As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.�?( Giving to the poor lays up righteousness forever for you a reward in Heaven.)

009:010-- �?Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness�? In other words, I am sowing this seed (word) to you as it was sowed to me, so you take this word and abide by it and it increases your fruitfulness to God and your righteousness. You take this word that you sow it also and it helps you to lay up treasures in heaven because you have heard and listen to the one who sowed this seed (word) to you. Paul in this vs. was talking about himself but right now I’m talking about me because no one else has ever told you this or tried to teach this. They told you that you had to pay some preacher. I’m telling you that you don’t have to pay for nothing under the New Testament . Freely you have received, freely give. You’re under no commandment to give. I’m telling you to give willfully out of a heart of love and give because you love the Saints of God and you have got faith enough in God to believe that he will reward you back again. This in the New Testament way of giving.)

009:011-- �?Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God�?(See they’re not going to be lack if the Christian people take care of each other and do it in love because God is going to supply everyone’s needs back again, if everyone is giving out of love. He said if you sow bountifully everyone will be reaping bountifully and there would not be anybody lacking. The glory of God will be manifested, there’s no glory of God when you think that you have to pay some preacher for preaching the gospel. All these things that the church world had been caught up in and they are missing the glory of God. This what we have been reading here in second Corinthians chapter 9 is how we make it work in love. That’s how we make it glorify God.)

009:012-- �?For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;�?( can you not see that this bounty was not for Paul but it was for the saints of God. You’re not just supplying for the needs of the Saints of God you’re causing a lot of Thanksgiving which is worship and praise world had been caught up in and they are missing the glory of God. This what we have been reading here in second Corinthians chapter 9 is how we make it work in love. That’s how we make it glorify God.)

009:012-- �?For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;�?( You’re not just supplying for the needs of the Saints of God you’re causing a lot of Thanksgiving which is worship and praise two-way glory here. You’re not only supplying for the needs of the Saints but you are also causing Thanksgiving which is worship and praise to go up to God.)

009:013-- �?Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men�?( In other words this was an experiment that they were doing and that they were showing the world that they believed in the gospel of Jesus Christ. That they were liberally giving to every man’s need and this was going to cause great glory to go up to God.)

009:014-- “And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.�?

009:015-- “Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.�?(That’s the gift of love. You send this out and you send this liberal gift to people and by them praying for you and by God answering their prayers and the blessings will come back to you and it will just keep rolling. It’s the most glorious thing in the world. We all ought to long to see God raise up a church with this kind of love and glory in obedience to the real gospel. This is the real gospel, not paying some preacher. That is a dead law. I say again that is a dead law. The Saints of God consider 100% of what they have to be in God’s hand.)

If they hear of a need over yonder or a saint over here or a saint over there that has a need. They get together and make up a bounty and send it. That’s why we cannot do and see the 009:013-- �?Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men�?( In other words this was an experiment that they were doing and that they were showing the world that they believed in the gospel of Jesus Christ. That they were liberally giving to every man’s need and this was going to cause great glory to go up to God.)

009:014-- “And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.�?

009:015-- “Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.�?(That’s the gift of love. You send this out and you send this liberal gift to people and by them praying for you and by God answering their prayers and the blessings will come back to you and it will just keep rolling. It’s the most glorious thing in the world. We all ought to long to see God raise up a church with this kind of love and glory in obedience to the real gospel. This is the real gospel, not no tithing. That is a dead law. I say again that is a dead law. The Saints of God consider 100% of what they have to be in God’s hand.)

If they hear of a need over yonder or a saint over here or a saint over there that has a need. They get together and make up a bounty and send it. That’s why we cannot do and see the signs, wonders, and miracles that would cause people to believe in God again.)

From: Isaiah

Sent: 8/30/2005 2:21 PM

Now for more let's also go in to 1 Corinthians 4:11- 12....

1 Corinthians 4:11- 12-- “And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:�?/STRONG>

004:013-- “Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day�?(Once again Paul is showing us that he went through all the sufferings and that he never demanded money from anybody, he labored with his own hands wherever he went. There were times he has nothing, and there were times he had plenty which ever way it came he took it and went right on preaching the gospel. That’s the way true ministers and true people of God should live. Paul never asked for no money from anyone, he self-supported his self.)

Now to

1 Corinthians 16:1-4-- “Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye�?(Let’s go back to this and pay close attention to what Paul is saying here, he did not say collection of the Saints or from the Saints he said the collection for the Saints. Paul never said that this collection was for him but he was for the saints, ministers have twisted this to get your money.)

016:002-- �?Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.�? What Paul was saying here whatever you have prospered or what you can spare to give you give it. This money was not for Paul but for the Saints. He said that there will be no gathering when I come. In other words when Paul got there he was to preach to them and to help them he did not want them to be taking up any money collections. In our day and time that is about the first thing that happens. I’ve heard ministers said let’s go ahead and take up the collection and get that out all our way. What they wanted to do is to get all they can before somebody walks out on them. Taking up money collections in church is wrong. We come to church to worship God. Taking a money collections has nothing to do with worshiping God.)

1 Corinthians 16:3-- “And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem�?( We see here that this collection was not for Paul but for the poor Saints in Jerusalem under persecution. You will never find in the word of God were Paul collected any tithes or collected any money for himself. Paul worked with his own hands to supply for his own needs and the people around him.)

From: Isaiah

Sent: 8/30/2005 2:29 PM

Sorry Talitha_koumi, but he reason that I deleted the above post that you did, the rose was very beautiful but it made the tread to wide. I had to scrool bak and forth to read the threadbut I put the message that you had there back. Wht a beautiful rose that was. Thank you very much for posting with us here on Build On The True Foundation.

From:

Talitha_koumi

Sent: 8/30/2005 3:18 PM

Hello...Jazz...You quoted

EVEN SO HATH THE LORD (THE LORD) ORDAINED THAT THEY WHICH PREACH THE GOSPEL SHOULD LIVE OF THE GOSPEL...

I personally took this to mean that my say should be the same as my do...In other words...If I Preach the gospel I better be appying the gospel to my own life as well..Or even better said..Lets say I came on here and preached you a whoopen good Gospel message, on Kindness, or Love, or something of that sort...then I got off the net and cussed out my whole family and kicked the dog...hmmm.... my say aint matchen my do is it?

I dont know..just a thought...(SMILE)

I was truely interested in Pauls choice of words when he says Robbed...And I wondered why he choose that word to describe receiving money...

Ps..almost all of my dictionarys liken bounty to Fair speech

Strongs...

G2129 εὐλογία eulogia yoo-log-ee'-ah From the same as G2127; fine speaking, that is, elegance of language; commendation (“eulogy�?, that is, (reverentially) adoration; religiously, benediction; by implication consecration; by extension benefit or largess: - blessing (a matter of) bounty (X -tifully), fair speech. G2129 εὐλογία

KJC

eulogia

Total KJV Occurrences:

19 blessing, 12 Rom_15:29, 1Co_10:16, Gal_3:14, Heb_6:7, Heb_6:14, Heb_12:17, Jam_3:10, 1Pe_3:9 (2), Rev_5:12-13 (2), Rev_7:12

bountifully, 2 2Co_9:6 (2) bounty, 2 2Co_9:5 (2)

blessings, 1 Eph_1:3

fair, 1 Rom_16:

18 speeches, 1 Rom_16:18 (2)

God Bless You....Jo Marie

From: joie

Sent: 8/30/2005 7:37 PM

. yet in 2 cor 9 paul sends a letter to the corinthian church ahead of time to let them prepare for his arrival so they will have time to set money aside to present to him. check verses 5 thru 8. in verse 5 u see the word BOUNTY. bounty means money offered or generous in giving. check your dictionary. and then in phillipians 4:10-15 paul is thanking the phillipian church for the money [jazz]

Jazz, I see you do not read anything we write. You are so blinded with this 'love' of money, that you cannot see anything spiritual. And I also see that you do not wish to see any truth.

You are totally changing the Word of God in this verse. You are doing a dangerous thing to change the Word of God so blazingly. You are trying to lead the young saints astray with your blackened doctrine. Your teacher is Satan.

Isaiah explained this fully, and you ignored every word of it, repeating again and again your lies.

Paul has NEVER in any Scripture told anyone to make up money for him. That is a black lie. Your hireling has so totally deceived you, that the word of God has no place in you.

Now here is the CORRECT reading of 11Cor. 9:1--

2co 9:1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:

Can you read? [you little sheep of God, who think I am too hard on some folks, you will see someday, down the road, that I am trying to protect you from harm from a murdering wolf]

that said, the ministering TO the saints. Now can you read? It was money or some sort of gifts to help poor SAINTS, NOT FOR PAUL.

God did not say one thing in one place and something totally DIFFERENT in another verse. God does not contradict himself. When Peter said do not do the work of God for filthy lucre, that is for every person in this world.

If one expects to be COMPENSATED here for their doings, then they are not working for God, they are working for themselves and their lust for money. If they are compensated here is this life by carnal money, they will never be compensated by Jesus with eternal life.

From: joie

Sent: 8/30/2005 8:09 PM

2co 9:12

For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;

Again proving this was for the help of SAINTS, NOT PAUL.

Jodi, you were absolutely right in your understanding of that verse.

Paul was saying they that minister the gospel, must also 'eat' of the gospel. They that give milk to the flock, must also drink the same milk. The ox never ground out money; he was grinding out CORN. = the word of God.

We must also eat the same CORN, WE TREAD OUT........means I must live by or of the same word I teach.

Now only a carnal, lustful mind, loving money, could take any of this to money.

The things of the altar and temple were NEVER MONEY. It was natural FOOD = we must eat spiritual FOOD, THE WORD OF GOD.

Jesus said in Isaiah 55, we come and drink without PRICE AND WITHOUT MONEY.

How are they going to change it now? anyone who changes the Word of God are liars and God will destroy them eternally.

From:

SearERIC

Sent: 9/9/2005 1:24 PM

I say all preachers should be paid a salary from their job, place of labor, none of them are qualified to preach the Gospel, if they were, I would know.

Now Jazz get to work.

Eric

p.s. from me, joie. I just love this answer from Eric. He was saying that since preachers are not qualified to preach the Gospel, they should have a public JOB and get paid a salary for their manuel labour, not for preaching.

That is the only thing they should be paid a salary for.

From: joie

Sent: 9/9/2005 4:05 PM

From:

jazz8787

Sent: 8/30/2005 9:16 PM

im just a bit surprised no one has yet spoke about the scripture below:

1 Corinthians 9 (King James Version)
14Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Jazz, either you do not read what we say or your mind is slipping. Both Jodi and I addressed this very verse. I did it several times. You just flat refuse to listen to any truth. You are sooooo set to uphold your paid hireling and your cult's way of doing things.

There is absolutely NO RECORD in the Word of God that preachers are supposed to be kept up by those who listen to them. Show it if you can.

If a man stops working at a job, then he should be ready and able to live by faith, not become a hireling by having the mark of the beast, which is accepting pay for his labour in religious work.

God said they must first be partaker of the same fruit or milk, or bread which they give out. This is what that verse means......they must be living by the same things they preach......= do not say don't commit adultery and then go out and do it yourself...etc.

Is that above your mentality? What does your 'cult' teach on a child's level? I am quite sure any normal child could easily understand the above verse and its meaning.......so why are you having such a hard or impossible time of getting hold of this simple truth? I say it is because you want no part of TRUTH.

Eric has told you the truth several times that the law was NEVER given to Gentiles...yet you and your cult insist that we all must live under the ten commandments...now why is this? The apostles told Christians NO, DO NOT GO BACK TO LAW. WHY ARE OPPOSING THIS TRUTH?

Righteous people need no law. It was never given to a righteous man ,,,,or a gentile.......so what are you and your cult? Rebel jews?

From: joie

Sent: 9/9/2005 10:16 PM

Do you know what made the foolish virgins be foolish? It was this very thing of buying and selling the things of God. sure it was.

Jesus came and shut that door. Then the foolish came knocking and asking to be let in. They went asking the wise virgins to GIVE them some of their oil. See, they knew these wise ones had been GIVING OUT THE THINGS OF GOD FREELY AS HE TOLD US TO DO.

They were told no. go back to those who SELL.........and BUY. . yourselves some oil. ......so while they went to try and BUY some of it....for they really thought it should be bought and sold.....Jesus shut that door. Then those foolish ones came and tried to get into the wedding.....

But know what Jesus told them? He said depart into everlasting darkness, for I KNOW YOU NOT.

See this entire message is about BUYING AND SELLING THE OIL OF GOD.

Now do you not realize that when you PAY a man, you are BUYING HIS SERVICES? So if you PAY a man to pastor a church and preach, you are BUYING HIS SERVICES. .......so it is not a work for God,,,,,,it is a secular JOB.

when he accepts the PAY, he is SELLING HIS SERVICES. He is selling the oil of God.

I am telling you all, THIS IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST.......ALL WHO HAVE IT ARE DOOMED TO HELLFIRE.......THAT IS WHY JESUS DID NOT OPEN THAT DOOR AND LET THEM IN.......HE WILL NOT KNOW YOU UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES.

Now I ask you Jazz, is it worth it to you .....to LOSE your soul.....to pay that hireling...who is not really giving you any BREAD FROM HEAVEN.....HE IS ONLY GIVING YOU SOME SILLY .....CRUMBS.

This one should be studied again by everyone.

Important Announcement The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
Build on the True Foundation	[email protected]