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| | From:  Freeborn551 (Original Message) | Sent: 7/10/2008 12:32 AM |
~~ By our LAW ~~ John 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him. John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. (Where is any law saying that if you make yourself the Son of God, you must die?) I know of none. Notice who said this. The Jews. Their chief priests cried, crucify him. The Jews said, We have a LAW, and by our LAW Jesus ought to DIE. What law were they speaking of? Breaking the Sabbath. They had accused him several times of breaking their Sabbath. So now, they use this LAW, of Sabbath keeping, to have Jesus killed, according to their law. He broke their Sabbath, so he needs to be killed. (They had no other they could have used. They could not accuse him of breaking any other law. He had fulfilled it ALL.) But, was this the end of that Sabbath law destroying the Lord? No, it was only the beginning. Watch: Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit. Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews six, is clearly speaking here about NT salvation. It speaks of the foundation of REPENTANCE, (not part of law)--; faith, (law is not of faith);--Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. NONE of these things were of LAW, but of the NT salvation. So, this is clearly speaking of those who have come into NT times. Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, There was no true enlightenment under that old law, for it blinds those who ‘read�?it, or hear it to live by it. They were never enlightened, nor did they ever taste the heavenly GIFT, for this GIFT is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, which was NEVER given to those under that old law. Neither did they ever taste the good Word of God or the powers of the world to come. So this is clearly speaking of those who came into the NT salvation. Watch now, what it says about these people who had done all of the above, which clearly could not be speaking about those under law, but those under Grace: For it is impossible for these people, Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. What is meant by, if they shall FALL AWAY? Let Paul answer this: Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. (Paul is calling the NT this liberty and in this Christ hath made us FREE. He tells them not to be entangled AGAIN with the YOKE OF BONDAGE. Peter clearly calls the law this bondage, in Acts 15; no guess work about this!) Ga 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. (Those telling the early Church they had to go back and keep the law of Moses, always linked it with this need to be circumcised, for this is the sign of LAW.) Ga 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. (Notice, here, how Paul makes this unmistakably clear that he is tying being circumcised with the need to keep the whole law! Again, no guess work, here.) Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. (So, there you have the meaning of ‘if they shall FALL AWAY�? If you think you must go back to keeping law, and being circumcised, then you FALL-- AWAY-- FROM--GRACE. And the result of this falling away, is that Christ is become of NO EFFECT unto you. You are thus lost. And according to Hebrews six, there is not hope of ever renewing you again to repentance. Why? Because by your LAW, YOU CRUCIFIED CHRIST AFRESH AND ANEW AND PUT HIM TO AN OPEN SHAME! That is exactly what your claiming you must needs go back to law, and keep some weekly Sabbath does to Christ, and to your own soul! And this is what is meant by the great falling away---so many denying Grace and going back to law.) Ga 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. (It is the Spirit, or the NT salvation, Holy Ghost, which gives us righteousness, by FAITH. THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH. Again, no guess work!) Ga 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. (In Christ, this law thing avails NOTHING. Only FAITH which works by love. Law is not of Faith, and shows no love. Again, no guess work!) Ga 5:7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? (These people started out well and ran well for a while. Who hindered them? And how were they HINDERED? By those who told them they had to go back to keeping that law of Moses, (Sabbath keeping), and to be circumcised. So this hindered these Christians in their walk with Christ. It made them guilty of CRUCIFYING Jesus all over again. WE HAVE A LAW. AND BY OUR LAW, HE OUGHT TO DIE. He broke their Sabbath! Ga 5:8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. (Paul tells them here that it is not of him or of Jesus, that they are led astray and hindered and deceived back into picking up that law again.) Ga 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. (Here Paul is saying that this little LEAVEN is their going back to law. That is the entire subject matter here. So going back to that law, by which Jesus had to die, breaking their Sabbath, is this leaven which has leavened their whole lump! Again, no guess work!) So, by your going back to the law of Moses, written and engraven on stone, you do crucify Jesus Christ afresh and put him to an open shame. So says these Scriptures! By: Jo Smith --- July 9, 2008 
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I was wondering Freeborn.... Do you go to church? If you do..why? DOVEY
What are you calling church? If you mean some building over yonder, The answer is no. Neither Freeborn nor myself, does not go to some man made building, made with hands, where Christ is not entered into the holy places. |
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| | | From: Dovey | Sent: 7/12/2008 4:01 AM |
Ok..I'm beginning to see the reason for the interpretations I've read in this forum. So, without attending any "Church" group you all just read scripture and pretty much assume that what you are interpreting is correct? Please don't get offended, since I know very well..that mainstream Christian Churches are NOT perfect. However, I find it pretty sad that you think the solution to the problem is to NOT attend any church at all. Freeborn and Larry seem to be in agreement. Do you all study together? You are not part of a congregation? If you are, who is responsible for teaching? So Tweety the answer to your question on message #18 is....There is no perfect church so even if you are part of a group here on the msn community, you are still at risk of being taught erroneous teachings. We don't have to belong to a "Church group" to be taught wrong. DOVEY |
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Dovey, you are certainly led into total darkness and error by the church you attend. If I teach EXACTLY what the Word of God says, and it fits all Scripture, and no church out there does this, why should I go listen to some false teacher, who also requires some big fat salary for teaching his lies? I tell you what, when you can show me one single scripture, where Jesus, Peter, Paul, or any other person of God, said, you need to go to church, to be taught God's Word, then I will immediately repent and go to that church. Which one is it? The one who is still under the bondage of keeping laws? thinking that going to church on saturday is going to make them righeous? shew! Ever hear of this: 1jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. What makes you think that God cannot and will not teach me? Answer all of my questions if you have any true answers. give me that verse which says i need to go to some church..especially in order to know some truth. and do not give me the one about forsaking not the assembling together...i happen to know that one..and i also know it does NOT mean i must go to some man-made 'church'. so now, where did any person in Scripture, tell folks that they must go to church? |
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So Tweety the answer to your question on message #18 is....There is no perfect church so even if you are part of a group here on the msn community, you are still at risk of being taught erroneous teachings. We don't have to belong to a "Church group" to be taught wrong. So Dovey, Which MSN Group is teaching me wrong? I do attend a church by the way. Not every Sunday. But most churches do teach wrong. I read in one of your other post that you do not agree with all of what the 7th Day Adventist teach. So may I ask, what relgion do you follow? |
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Dovey, who do you think the 'whore' is? Who is God telling us to come out of? Unless a church is fully faithful to God and His truth, they are a whore against God. So this takes them all in. God personally told me to leave every church I ever attended, and I took in quite a few. But I can truthfully say, that I never learned any truth, or had any faith, until I OBEYED GOD AND CAME OUT OF HER. I AM OUT TO STAY. God will destroy her with those TEN COMMANDMENTS. Yes, believe it or not, those ten kings will destroy that whore for they hate her. and that includes the adventist or saturday keeping churches. It is breaking God's commandment and at the same time claiming to be the ones who is keeping it. Now let me explain something here to all of you. Jesus Christ was NOT TEACHING THOSE TEN COMMANDMENTS. HE WAS NOT TEACHING LAW. HE WAS NOT TEACHING THAT FIRST TESTAMENT, WHICH GOD HAD ABOLISHED. HE WAS NOT TEACHING THAT TESTAMENT WHICH WAS WRATH AND DEATH. He came to give us LIVE, NOT DEATH. He came to set us FREE, NOT BRING US INTO BONDAGE. That old law is bondage. Jesus was teaching GRACE. HE GAVE US GOD'S GRACE AND TRUTH. He showed that righteousness is in the hearts of the people of Grace. He showed that we do not 'look and lust'. Now under that law, they could and did look and lust, and no one knew. But see, God looks at the HEART, for by the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. We do not kill, but it goes further than that with grace....we do not hate our brother or be angry with him without a cause. We do not have to strive to obey this....it is in our hearts. Jesus put it into our heart to love righteousness as he did. We do the work of God seven days a week as Jesus did. Jesus was not trying to keep any ten commandments. he certainly was not trying to keep the 4th one. If he had been, he would had done as Moses said, DO NO WORK ON THAT DAY.....STAY IN YOUR PLACE....DO NOT BUY ANYTHING ON THAT DAY... DO YOU ADVENTIST BUY FOOD ON THAT DAY? iF so you are guilty of breaking all of that law. Do you go out after your church and eat out? I bet most of you do. It is breaking that law. How can you all claim you obey that 4th commandment and get up, dress, probably fix breakfast, (working), and ride off to church, then probably go out to buy food afterwards? thus breaking every aspect of that commandment. Now if you say it was changed so you can now do all of these things, which were forbidded by the law giver, show me one single verse where it was changed and how? Do not try to go by what Jesus said and did, for he was not living by those ten commandments. He was living Grace. Holiness was in his heart. Jo Smith |
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| Tweety, I love that siggy. It is so cute. |
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Re 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) What made them desolate? What was the abomination? That old law, which works wrath and death. God is a merciful God. He hated them driving him to set up this law, by which he had them killed for their disobedience. It made that old nation of Israel desolate. Yet the stupid church has set that old law right back up and is bringing people right back into that bondage and desolation. When you see it sitting in that church, where is the seat of Satan, then know that your desolation is nigh. When you see that LAW again, crowned with power, then your desolation is come. Mt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: Mt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. Why pray that your flight be not on the Sabbath day? Because they crowned that law again and will kill any who break that Sabbath day by traveling. It brought about all the tribulation on this earth. It is the enemy of your soul. Jesus took that enmity, (law) out of the way, but this foolish church brought it right back up again. See, the early Apostles had to battle this same thing. They called it subverting their souls, to tell them had to go back to keeping the law of Moses. They called it bondage which none of them could bear. So why would a stupid church take it back up after Jesus set them free from that bondage? (Acts 15). Mt 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: Mt 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. Mt 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. Moses�?seat is that ten commandment law. It binds heavy burdens and grievous to be borne and lay them on men’s shoulders. They themselves do not obey it. But to be under that law is the bondage. It is the seat of Moses. Mt 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Mt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Mt 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: Mt 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Only a blind person could not see what the above is saying. Those Pharisees and priests, who held folks under that Moses�?law, were serpents, and vipers. They were headed to hell. They are the very ones who persecuted the New Church, who held to Grace. But notice Verse 35. Here is where Jesus clearly identified this law bunch, Jerusalem, Old Jerusalem, the bond children, as being the mystery Babylon…the one who is guilty of all the righteous blood shed upon the earth. Same words spoken to Babylon in Rev. 17. How long, oh you people, will you reject this clearly taught TRUTH? Love, Jo |
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| | | From: Dovey | Sent: 7/13/2008 10:33 PM |
Dovey, who do you think the 'whore' is? Who is God telling us to come out of? Unless a church is fully faithful to God and His truth, they are a whore against God. So this takes them all in.<Freeborn> This Harlot (the false church) is killing the saints of God Freeborn. That is why God tells His people to get out of her. His people are HIS church. Jesus' church. The Harlot is the false church who is persecuting God's Church ...the saints...who are OBEDIENT and who keep His Commandments. They are the ones who will have the "right to the tree of life" Because they DO HIS COMMANDMANTS. Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. God personally told me to leave every church I ever attended, and I took in quite a few. But I can truthfully say, that I never learned any truth, or had any faith, until I OBEYED GOD AND CAME OUT OF HER.<Freeborn> I'm sure God wants all those He is calling to leave "mainstream churches" because most churches teach against His Commandments. Leaving all the churches and abandoning God's Commandments just doesn't make sense. The false church is going to face God's wrath because of her disobedience and because she perscutes the saints of God who do His commandments and have the faith of Jesus. Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. I AM OUT TO STAY. God will destroy her with those TEN COMMANDMENTS. Yes, believe it or not, those ten kings will destroy that whore for they hate her. and that includes the adventist or saturday keeping churches. It is breaking God's commandment and at the same time claiming to be the ones who is keeping it.<Freeborn> This is were you misunderstand Freeborn. The false church ...the Harlot.....DOES NOT have God's Ten commandments or obeys them. That is why God is telling us to get out of her. That is why she is drunk with the blood of the saints. The saints are those who keep God's Comandments and have the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Now let me explain something here to all of you. Jesus Christ was NOT TEACHING THOSE TEN COMMANDMENTS. HE WAS NOT TEACHING LAW. HE WAS NOT TEACHING THAT FIRST TESTAMENT, WHICH GOD HAD ABOLISHED. HE WAS NOT TEACHING THAT TESTAMENT WHICH WAS WRATH AND DEATH. He came to give us LIVE, NOT DEATH. He came to set us FREE, NOT BRING US INTO BONDAGE. That old law is bondage.<Freeborn> You say that a righteous heart will automatically obey. Then you say that Jesus didn't obey the Ten Commandments. What type of heart did our Messiah have Freeborn? You are the one totally mixed up my dear. You claim to have left the churches yet you are teaching against God's Commandments which is what most of the churches do in this world. They teach that Jesus was disobedient. That's what you just typed there. That He did not keep His Father's commandments. If that is true Freeborn..then Jesus cannot be the Messiah. The Messiah NEVER SINNED.!! Sin if you recall....if you have noticed ...is..."The transgression of the law" I John3:4. Jesus set us of FREE FROM SIN AND IT'S PENlATY..not from God's Commandments. God's commandments are NOT SIN. Transgressing God's Commandments is sin and it's penalty is DEATH. Grace is God's forgiveness through Jesus' sacrifice. Why??? because Jesus DIED IN OUR STEAD. He took the DEATH PENALTY for us. Why were we under the penalty of death???? Because " All have sinned!" Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;. All humans sin..and need repentance. God calls us to repent. To stop transgressing His Commandments and to start living by them. God's grace gives us that freedom to obey Him from the heart. If the desire of the heart is to obey Him..then that Freeborn is living by His Commandments. God said that He would put His laws in our heart. Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; God's Sabbath was kept by Jesus Himself and he taught us how to obey it. IT's the 4th Commandment Freeborn. You keep forcusing on how Israel kept the only on a physical level. On the physical ONLY...Freeborn. If a person broke a commandment they were stoned. We don't do that anymore because Jesus died in our stead. We no llonger need to go around stoning people. When people mess up and sin all they need to do is go to God and repent from the heart. God is always there ready to forgive a repenting heart. Do you see the difference??? God's people are NOT lawless. LOVE DOVEY |
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Dovey, do you read the Word of God? Or do you just listen to what your 'church' tells you? I truly do not think a person could read the New Testament much, and still believe the false stuff you believe. I did NOT SAY THAT JESUS DISOBEYED HIS FATHER'S COMMANDMENTS. You 'THINK' you know what I am saying, so you read things into it which is not there. That is exactly how people 'think' they are reading God's Word , but all they do is read 'words' and insert their own thoughts into it. That way, one will never ever find the truth. Do you think Abraham disobeyed God's commandments? Just answer me this, then we will proceed. Which one of God's commandments did Abraham disobey? No, Jesus was NOT keeping that 4th commandment. He never one time told anyone that the way of keeping it has changed from what Moses said. Moses got his words from God. They were God's words to a disobedient and sinful nation of rebels. Jesus did NOT change God's word. He gave us the true commandments of God, which Abraham had. but those ten did were not given until 430 years AFTER ABRAHAM was given the covenant which God gave to him by promise. Those who live by that LAW are not heirs to this promise, and that is why you do not OBEY OR TEACH GOD'S COMMANDMENTS, WRITTEN IN ACTS. Jesus had not died for sins when he lived on earth.....so if he were keeping that 4th commandment, he would have had to STAY IN HIS HOUSE AND NOT WORK ON THAT DAY. You flat refuse any truth. God's COMMANDMENTS are not those ten. Sure he gave them to Israel, but only so he could bring them to judgment and get rid of them. He will do the same to those of you who put yourself back under that BONDAGE. Jesus did not die to keep us under that BONDAGE. He did NOT change how to keep that 4th. It is NOT GOD'S SABBATH. God's seventh day is not saturday. It is not our weekly day. Genesis one is not about our earthly time. not at all. It is the new world which started with Jesus Christ. Jesus was keeping the GRACE SABBATH, NOT THE LAW SABBATH. He gave us grace, not law. Old Israel, with her laws, is that Mother of harlots. All the modern day churches are her daughters, including the Catholics. they are her daughter, not the mother. Read the discription of that harlot in Revelation, then go read the making of that old tabernacle in the wilderness. It is one and the same. There is nothing else in Scripture which fits this description. Your false church has blinded you to any truth. Answer this for me: why do you not obey the COMMANDMENTS IN ACTS 10? |
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| | | From: Dovey | Sent: 7/15/2008 12:34 AM |
Freeborn: Yes, I read my bible have been for years now. I know you read your bible too. Yet it's amazing how two people can read it and come up with different views and beliefs. Anyway, Just because you might not be attending any "church" or "congregation" doesn't mean you have obtained all truth. It doesn't mean that you know all there is to know.( I'm typed that with all do respect Freeborn)..but..it's fact. If any of us had ALL truth and KNOW IT ALL now...then that would mean we are perfect and we both know there are no perfect humans. I'm sorry but yes, you have stated that Jesus never kept those commandments and that He did not live by them. You might not have said it in this particular thread but I know it's in anyother thread in which you have replied. You are correct in saying that people read over words assuming that it says something it doesn't say. Well, my dear, Can you actually believe you are exempt from that mistake? We are both in agreement that Jesus never changed the Word of God. He even says..that not one tittle or dot would pass away. Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" God's Commandment have existed BEFORE Mt Sinai. Remember it was sin for Cain to kill Abel. So the Commandments that Abraham obeyed are the same exact commandments that have existed from the beginning. At time of Israel is when God gave those exact Commandments in WRITTEN form. He wrote them on tablets of stone. However, they have always existed and will exist forever because that is God's very character and way to life. You cannot say those "Ten Commandments" are NOT the same ones since it was God who wrote them on the tablets of stone gaving them to Moses so that Israel could learn to live by them. Remember, Israel was under God's authority. How can you say it's not the Ten commandments? Where are these OTHER so called different Commandments from Jesus Freeborn? Jesus lived by His Father's commandments. Jhn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. Jesus had not died for sins when he lived on earth.....so if he were keeping that 4th commandment, he would have had to STAY IN HIS HOUSE AND NOT WORK ON THAT DAY<FREEBORN> Jesus didn't die for sins???? 1Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; But yet you're telling me I"M refusing to accept truth??? Freeborn, now really..... If Jesus didn't die for the sins of humanity than what is it you think He did when He lived on this planet? If Jesus didn't die for the sins of the world..then we have no redemption. Don't know what you're saying there...doesn't make sense..Freeborn. I'm curious because I do see see you teaching Apostolic oneness doctrine. Yet, you say you don't belong to any church doctrine. I see you teaching what most of the Churches in the world teach. Which is Anti-commandments. Anyway, You focus on this "Acts 10" verse so passionately yet, reject God's fundamental moral standards(which are His commandments). Is your whole faith on that ONE verse? I understand completely about baptism. We are told to be baptized. When I was baptized it was in the name of the Father and Jesus our Messiah. However, I have this feeling that it won't be acceptabe to YOU. I think we should leave those things up to God. He knows who is a true repenting individual and it is God who knows whom to give of His Holy Spirit. I'm not going to sit here and judge you. That's not my job. I enjoy sharing and discussing God's Word. God has called us to change...and that is what we should be fighting for..NOT fighing against one another. There is no way you will convince me of abandoning God's Commandments and I know very well that I'm not here to convince you to accepting them. LOVE DOVEY |
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Dovey, where have I ever said that I know everything? Why do people always jump to this absurd conclusion, just because I do KNOW A LOT OF TRUTH AND TEACH IT WITH AUTHORITY? Wait until I make that claim to go rebuking me for it. Now you said this:Jesus had not died for sins when he lived on earth.....so if he were keeping that 4th commandment, he would have had to STAY IN HIS HOUSE AND NOT WORK ON THAT DAY then you say: Jesus didn't die for sins???? 1Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; But yet you're telling me I"M refusing to accept truth??? Freeborn, now really..... If Jesus didn't die for the sins of humanity than what is it you think He did when He lived on this planet? If Jesus didn't die for the sins of the world..then we have no redemption. Don't know what you're saying there...doesn't make sense..Freeborn. But see, you did NOT read what I wrote. You again jumped to some absurd conclusion. Is this how you 'read' Scripture? I think that is your problem. I am not fighting you. I am trying to show you what both Paul and Jesus and all apostles taught. I did NOT say that Jesus did not die for our sins. Go back and read what I did say. I said, at the time he LIVED ON EARTH, he HAD NOT, at that time, yet died for our sins. While he lived on this earth, he had not yet died. Does that make any sense to you at all? If he had died, then he was not living on earth. Is that sensible to you? So I was saying that at the time, while he was yet alive, on this earth, the price for sins had NOT been paid, so Jesus would have had to still be living UNDER THAT LAW, IF THAT IS WHAT HE LIVED. HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO STILL KEEP THAT SABBATH ACCORDING TO HOW GOD TOLD MOSES TO TELL PEOPLE HOW TO KEEP IT. But see, that Jesus did NOT KEEP IT THAT WAY, FOR HE WAS LIVING BY grace...not law. will finish this later. gotta go for now. Jo |
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I'm curious because I do see see you teaching Apostolic oneness doctrine. Yet, you say you don't belong to any church doctrine. I see you teaching what most of the Churches in the world teach. Which is Anti-commandments. Anyway, You focus on this "Acts 10" verse so passionately yet, reject God's fundamental moral standards(which are His commandments). Is your whole faith on that ONE verse? [ dovey]
Me. >.No, Dovey. You do not see me teaching that oneness doctrine. I fight that false teaching just as I fight this having to live by law false doctrine. I am focusing YOU to the COMMANDMENT in Acts 10--because you harp about God's commandments, while ignoring this ONE COMMANDMENT, which has to do with receiving SALVATION. You can go to church on saturday, and never miss a single service, but it will never, never, ever give you salvation. It has no power at all. Jesus Christ and all the Apostles were in the ministry each and every single day,,,,,ALIKE. that is the grace way. Not one day is above another. It has not one thing to do with Sabbath. It is not rest to go to church on saturday. nor any other day, for that matter. I fight the false 'trinity' doctrine also. None of this stuff is in God's Holy word. God is a many, many, membered kingdom. No, I most certainly do NOT rejects God's moral way of life. But keeping laws is not God's moral way of life. God's way of life is to have LOVE, LOVE, LOVE IN OUR HEARTS. tHE LAW forbids that. If your neighbor slaps you on one cheek, slap him back. If he puts out your eye, put his eye out. If he commits adultery, go stone him to death. if he knocks your tooth out, knock his tooth out also. if you pick up a stick on saturday, stone him to death.......AND THAT IS LOVE? NOT HARDLY. BUT IT IS LAW. Where is one word about FORGIVENESS? It is not there. There is no forgiveness associated with LAW. You better not forgive your mate's adultery, or you will also be stoned to death. one member of a family sins, they all get stoned to death. And you want that? And don't go telling me that Jesus said you are still bound by that law, but no longer have to pay the penalty. show me one verse of Scripture which says that. You say a lot of stuff for which there is no scripture. Why? You are trying to mix up grace with law. It cannot be done, for the Word of God says that if you go back to LAW, YOU FALL FROM GRACE. (Why do you not deal with this?) wHY DO you ignor this Scripture? Why do you ignore almost every Scripture I show you? No man has the authority to baptize you in the name of the Father. That is a place only for Jesus Christ. You do usurp the authority of Jesus to do that or accept it. Why did none of the Apostles do that? Have you never wondered. I sent the message to the top with that explained in it. Why do you not read some of these things? Do you think that Peter and Paul just ignored what Jesus told them and did something totally different? Do you not believe in the Book of Acts? I take in all of the Word of God, not just some of it. I only point out these things to you, because they would help show you that you are believing a false doctrine, IF YOU WOULD BE HONEST AND SEARCH THESE THINGS OUT. Why did Peter say, Baptize in the name of Jesus Christ? Do you think that perhaps Peter lied? or maybe that is not truly Scripture? You must deal with it somewhere along the way. it is the plan of salvation, not going to church on saturday, or any other day. Not one single Scripture say, go to church. It is man's doctrine, not God's. Why did Paul also teach this? and Phillip? and all the rest. It is not one time named in Scripture that anyone ever did it in the name of the Father, for only Jesus Christ is authorized to use the name of the Father. We are all under the head of Jesus, not the Father. So see. You do not know all about baptism. Answer me this: if you think Abraham was under that law, why did God say the law was given 430 years after Abraham? |
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Dovey, how is it that you think God only has ten commandments? How can you just ignor all the other commandments and think that is all there is to God's moral way of life? How did that false church convince so many people of this stupid reasoning? I am going to quote Acts 10 here for you. Now, you tell me, is this a commandment of God, or did Peter tell us a lie? And if it is a COMMANDMENT OF GOD, why do you not believe it and obey it? Ac 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Ac 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? Ac 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. Here is another one of GOD'S COMMANDMENTS: Ac 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: See, that is TWO commandments of God, which pertain to receiving SALVATION, yet 'saturday keepers' ignor them? Why? Do you not believe this part of God's Holy word? and yet you think we do not obey God's commandments? Do you? Have you obeyed those two above? They are the ones which will get you salvation, not that one you claim to keep, but are certainly NOT KEEPING. |
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Tell me what you think about this Scripture: 2Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: Best be mindful of the commandment of the apostles of the Lord and Saviour. Why do you not care about obeying and keeping THEIR COMMANDMENT? It is the one which gives salvation. Now, here is the words of Jesus Christ. see if you believe this: Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Now, Jesus said to observe all things which JESUS COMMANDED US. So, now you show me where Jesus commanded us to go to church or saurday. or whatever it is you think you do, to keep the 4th of those ten. I want to see it. |
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Mr 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? Mr 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Mr 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. Mr 10:20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. Mr 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. Dovey, read the above. This man was a law keeper, from his youth up. He knew he was missing something. He asked Jesus, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life. He knew he did not yet have eternal life. Now Jesus first takes him into what he is living---.those commandments. He shows this man that this is not enough to get eternal life with. (Jesus did not tell him, you need to be keeping the 4th, now did he? Why didn't he tell the man this, if that is what the man needed to do? why? why? answer this.) For the man said, I have observed all of these from my youth. Jesus then said to him, you lack one thing. What did this man lack? Grace. Love. New Testament salvation. He did not know this way. Jesus told him, go sell what you have, give to the poor, and you will have great treasure in heaven, and come, (come to Jesus) take up the cross and FOLLOW ME. Is that the ten commandments? No. But it is the way of eternal life. Jesus shows right here, that keeping those ten commandments will never give you eternal life. Only one way to get eternal life--- leave that decayed abolished old covenant , take up your cross and FOLLOW JESUS. Jesus does not lead you back to that decayed, old abolished covenant, which he called the enemy and nailed it to his cross. Why take you back to what he destroyed? No other way to have eternal life. You are walking in DEATH. Moses ministered DEATH TO THOSE PEOPLE. Death was riding on those stones. Now this is the true gospel, by which you may find eternal life. There is no life back there on those stones. If so, that young man already had it. But see, he did not ever find it. He walked away sorrowful. So will you. Jo |
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