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Law & Sabbath : Commandments Existed Since Creation
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Reply
 Message 1 of 13 in Discussion 
From: Dovey  (Original Message)Sent: 7/17/2008 9:45 AM
Commandments have existed since the creation of man, we need to understand the Bible definition of sin: “Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law�?(I John 3:4).
 
Romans 6:23 defines the penalty—the end result—of sin: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.�?/STRONG>
Death reigned from Adam to Moses. (Remember, death is the penalty for sin, which is defined as the transgression of the law.) The only way Adam and his descendants could sin—break God’s spiritual law—is if God’s law already existed!
 
Instead of rejecting sin, false religionists reject the law. They view the law as a burden—they want to be free from keeping it. But notice the key lessons found in Romans 7:7: “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. No, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, You shall not covet.�?/STRONG>
It is not the law that is at fault, but sin. God reveals to us what sin is. He does this by His perfect law.
 
In the Garden of Eden, God talked to Adam and gave him clear, understandable instructions. Adam needed this. He was an adult with an adult mind, but God had to reveal to him the spiritual boundaries that Adam could not discover on his own, without breaking God’s laws. Genesis 2:15 states, “And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.�?And Romans 6:23 states “the wages of sin is death.�?/STRONG>

Adam was given instructions on how to maintain the garden. He was also commanded not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (not to decide for himself what is right or wrong), and was told what the penalty would be for disobeying this command.

God revealed to Adam, and to his wife, Eve, right knowledge about how to live. But He gave them the freedom to decide whether or not they would follow His way. This was free moral agency, which God has given to all mankind.

Satan, in the form of a serpent, told Eve that if she took the fruit of the forbidden tree, “You shall not surely die: For God does know that in the day you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil�?(Gen. 3:4-5). Being gullible in the face of Satan’s shrewd tactics, Eve fell for his deception and ate from the tree, as did Adam.

Adam sinned by acting against God’s command. He broke God’s law. In doing so, he became the servant of the one whom he obeyed—Satan. This principle is explained in Romans 6:16: “Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?�?/STRONG>

Whoever or whatever someone obeys and serves is his god. In this case, Adam and Eve broke the First Commandment by putting another god before the Creator God. In doing so, they also broke the Fifth Commandment, by dishonoring their Parent, in the sense that Adam was a created son of God (Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God").. Their sin also involved stealing (the Eighth Commandment), in that they took something that was not theirs. Besides this, Eve lusted for the forbidden fruit. Lusting is coveting, which breaks the Tenth Commandment.

Breaking one commandment leads to breaking all of them. This is precisely what the Apostle James expressed in James 2:10: “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.�?/STRONG> God’s laws are interrelated and intricately woven together—if you break one, you eventually break them all.

In Genesis 4, Adam’s first son, Cain, became angry against his brother Abel, because God accepted Abel’s sacrifice, but not Cain’s. Notice how God admonished Cain in verses 6-7: “And the Lord said unto Cain, Why are you wroth [angry]? and why is your countenance fallen? If you do well, shall you not be accepted? and if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And unto you shall be his desire, and you shall rule over him.�?Cain murdered and broke the Sixth Commandment.

When someone is in the wrong frame of mind, sin does lie at the door, waiting to happen, because sinful thoughts lead to sinful actions. God commands us to rule over sin—to control those pulls and impulses to commit sin. Cain murdered Abel and lied to God about it. This is a direct violation of the Ninth Commandment, which forbids “bearing false witness against your neighbor.�?SPAN> Cain had sinned and he knew it.

This happened a few decades after Adam had first sinned. Adam and Eve’s expanding family knew that sin was the breaking of God’s law, else God would not have held them accountable.

DOVEY



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Reply
 Message 2 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTweety134Sent: 7/17/2008 10:13 AM
Dovey,
Do you truly know what sin is? How do you know how many types of deaths there are in scripture? Why did death reign from just Adam to Moses?
 
What lie did Adam tell EVE?
 
Adam was more powerful in mind and spirit than we are today. Why is that?
 
Think about these questions. And I will get back to you about it.
 
Tweety

Reply
 Message 3 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 7/17/2008 1:45 PM
Dovey, do you know what the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is?
 
You really need to learn this matter, for herein is the full answer to this question of being under law or being under Grace.
 
It is not a matter of God never having commandments.  It is a matter of which covenant you are under.
 
No one is disputing that it is sin to murder or steal or lie.  We are not teaching that.  BUT there is a higher way of living a Holy and Godly life than STRIVING TO KEEP SOME COMMANDMENTS.
 
While you are under that law, or the old, decayed covenant, which came to Moses on Mt Sinai,  you must still 'strive' to keep from sinning and  to keep some commandment.
 
there is so much here in your post, which you need to learn about, but being blinded by that law system, keeps you from learning these great truths.
 
Are you even interested in learning these great secrets of God's Word?  If not, then you will never learn them, nor get into grace, where is the only means of salvation.
 
Why do you just keep jumping about like this, trying to prove we are still under law, instead of dealing with the Scriptures I gave you,  PROVING SOLIDLY THAT CHRISTIANS ARE NOT UNDER THAT OLD COVENANT OF TEN COMMANDMENTS.
 
why believe that ten is all  there is to God's commandments   And if you kept all ten of them perfectly  YOU STILL WOULD NOT HAVE SALVATION.
 
That is the pity of it.  Only by obeying the NT COMMANDMENT, written in Acts 10,  will you ever find or have salvation.  Yet you never even mention this one GREAT COMMANDMENT, WHICH ALONE CAN BRING YOU INTO THE GRACE COVENANT.
 
Please give me scripture proving what that tree was or is.  Which commandment was that commandment,  eat not of this tree?  which of the ten is this one?
 
If you do not know, then you will never learn this great truth about that old, abolished covenant, given to Moses on Mt Sinai.
 
Jo

Reply
 Message 4 of 13 in Discussion 
From: DoveySent: 7/17/2008 10:02 PM
 
Dovey,
Do you truly know what sin is? <TWEETY>
 
Yes Tweety, I keep posting the biblical definition of SIN, but it seems to be ignored. Scripture says...."Sin is the transgression of the law..." I John 3:4.
 
Simple and direct. Don't you think?
 
DOVEY

Reply
 Message 5 of 13 in Discussion 
From: DoveySent: 7/17/2008 10:15 PM
Freeborn:
 
I am under the New Covenant which is based on "BETTER PROMISES". Hbr 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises  
It's method of administration is different from the Old Covenant.
 
You will not find anywhere in Scripture where it says that the New Covenant is based on different laws or no laws. The Old Covenant had an administration of death.  When the commandment was transgressed people got killed.
 
In the New Covenant which carries the same commandments has a better administration of forgiveness and mercy. When a person transgresses a commandment, they are no longer stoned to death.  The individual can now go before the Father, repent and is FORGIVEN. God shows MERCY. We all know this is possible because of Jesus' sacrifice.
 
So, yes..Freeborn, I am under the New Covenant. It is a better Covenant because it gives us Mercy, forgiveness, God's Spirit and eternal life. NOT DIFFERENT LAWS!.   The New Covenant which is of GRACE (undeserved pardon)....is NOT license to sin. Our faith in Jesus' sacrifice gives us the assurance that God will forgive a repenting heart. Paul says it wonderfully....Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
 
DOVEY

Reply
 Message 6 of 13 in Discussion 
From: DoveySent: 7/17/2008 10:42 PM
why believe that ten is all  there is to God's commandments   And if you kept all ten of them perfectly  YOU STILL WOULD NOT HAVE SALVATION.<Freeborn>
 
I don't obey God's commandments because I think they will save me Freeborn. I believe in them and live by them because they are God's Commandments and He gave them for our own good. To keep us safe.
 
The first 4 commandments tell us how to love God and the last 6 tell us how to love our fellowman.
1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous
 
That is the pity of it.  Only by obeying the NT COMMANDMENT, written in Acts 10,  will you ever find or have salvation.  Yet you never even mention this one GREAT COMMANDMENT, WHICH ALONE CAN BRING YOU INTO THE GRACE COVENANT<Freeborn>.
 
Being baptized and rejecting God's Commandments does not make any sense what-so-ever. A baptized person who has been given God's Spirit will be an OBEDIENT child of God.  A Baptized individual will have God's commandments written in his/her heart and will live by them.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].
Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness
 
You see that in Romans? It says our BODY is dead. NOT THE COMMANDMENT.
 
Please give me scripture proving what that tree was or is.  Which commandment was that commandment,  eat not of this tree?  which of the ten is this one?<Freeborn>
 
I have no idea what you're asking me here. The tree of the knowledge of good & evil are not God's Commandments if that is what you're saying.  Can you give me scripture saying the "Tree"is God's Commandments?
 
DOVEY

Reply
 Message 7 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 7/19/2008 3:08 PM
Dovey, I hate to say this,  but the more you say, the more ignorance of God's Word and ways you do show.
 
total ignorance.  Yet you refuse to try to hear one word of truth.  I do not know how the adventist originators managed to get such a tight hold on so many people and bind them hand and foot, but they did it.
 
I have not met one yet who did not hate all truth.
 
You are NOT in the New covenant.  You are only deceived into thinking you can be in both.
 
I guess your leaders know more than Peter?  Here is what he said, though I have already showed you many times.  It is a total waste of time to talk to anyone any more.  Satan has you all so bound that you do not want any truth.
 
but I must, as a God-sent teach of TRUTH, I must do it.
 
so here it goes again,.  (not going to take the time and work to put this into my word precessor, so as to take out the gobble-d-gook),  for you will not hear it anyway.
 
<NOBR>Ac 15:1</NOBR> And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

<NOBR>Ac 15:5</NOBR> But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses

<NOBR>Ac 15:10</NOBR> Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

<NOBR>Ac 15:24</NOBR> Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


Now if you can't hear that,  go on in your darkness, for ellen white and her crowd knew more about God than Peter did.

But I am telling you that keeping that 4th is not God's sabbath.  Having the baptism of the Holy Ghost is the sabbath to the new covenant people.

It is the REST given to us by Jesus. He did not give you going to church on saturday as a rest or sabbath.

It is of satan to call this keeping God's sabbath.

It is of satan,  it is demonic,  it is evil to deny the Baptism of the Holy Ghost in preference to going to church on saturday and claiming this is God's sabbath.

It is evil, evil, evil.

Your false doctrine, and mockery of God's truth, is making me truly DESPISE THIS FALSE TEACHING.

 

Yes, I do HATE YOUR FALSE DOCTRINE.  GOD HATES IT ALSO.  IT DENIES EVERYTHING OF GOD'S HOLY WORD,  IT DENIES THE RIGHT WAY OF KEEPING THAT 4TH,  TO THOSE WHO ARE STILL UNDER THAT BONDGE OF LAW,

 

AND IT IS SATANIC MOCKERY OF GOD'S GRACE SABBATH.  IT IS SO EVIL,  EVIL, EVIL.

YES IT DO HATE THE EVIL JUNK YOU ARE ADVOCATIN.  I HATE THE DARKNESS IT HAS YOU IN.

 

YOUR CONTINUED REPEATING THESE LIES, LIES, LIES, AND REFUSING TO EVEN READ THE SCRIPTURES WHICH PROVE THIS FALSE TEACHING IS OF THE DEVIL, HAS MADE ME   HATE  IT VERY MUCH.

 

JO


Reply
 Message 8 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 7/19/2008 3:11 PM
I am going to show you think  ONE MORE TIME.  If you refuse it and continue to say such ignorance as you said,  that this is not God's commandment, I will let you alone.  NO use even talking to someone this determined to remain in satan's false religion.
 
here it is;; proof that this was a COMMANDMENT GIVEN TO ADAM,  CARRYING THE DEATH PENALTY.
 
<NOBR>Ge 2:16</NOBR> And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
<NOBR>Ge 2:17</NOBR> But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now, Dovey,  you read that a dozen times.  and then tell me that is not God's COMMANDMENT.

 

If not, then who commanded that to Adam?

You are in such ignorance and disbelief of God's Scriptures, till it is scary.

JO


Reply
 Message 9 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 7/19/2008 4:56 PM
I want to ask you a question >>>> which day is the Day of Salvation? >>>S, M, T, W, T,F, or S?
 
Please tell me and also how many hours are in this Day?

Reply
 Message 10 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 7/19/2008 5:21 PM
Your question: 
I have no idea what you're asking me here. The tree of the knowledge of good & evil are not God's Commandments if that is what you're saying.  Can you give me scripture saying the "Tree"is God's Commandments?
 
DOVEY

Me:  Yes, I most certainly CAN.  Here it is, (but of course you will deny this also, since Paul did not know what he was talking about.....as it does not fit adventists false doctrine),  but here it is anyway:

<NOBR>Ro 3:20</NOBR> Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
<NOBR>Ro 3:21</NOBR> But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
<NOBR>Ro 3:22</NOBR> Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


And now, for a chapter you  seem to dote one, but totally miss its truth:

<NOBR>Ro 7:7</NOBR> What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
<NOBR>Ro 7:8</NOBR> But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
<NOBR>Ro 7:9</NOBR> For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
<NOBR>Ro 7:10</NOBR> And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
<NOBR>Ro 7:11</NOBR> For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.


3:20==by the law is the knowledge of sin.

By the  LAW is the KNOWLEDGE  OF  SIN  (EVIL).

mORE proof:   7:8--For without the law sin was dead.

when they (man) were without the LAW,  sin  was dead, for where there is no LAW, there is no sin.  Man was alive, once, WITHOUT  THE LAW.......but the law came, and sin revived, and man DIED.  The DAY  you eat, thereof,  you will die.

Eat of what?   partaking of the LAW.  the LAW, came, sin appeared sinful, and man,  under Adam,  died.  By one man,  Adam,  sin entered this world.  by what?  He took them into LAW.  that is exactly what he did, else you must call all of the above Scripture and Paul an outright LIE.

Noah found Grace, and brought them back into GRACE.  Now, man was alive again, without law.

But, they continued to live sinful and ungodly, so God gave them the LAW, BY MOSES,  again  the LAW CAME, and sin revived, and man DIED.

stayed dead in trespasses and sins,  UNTIL JESUS CAME AND GAVE US GRACE AGAIN......setting us FREE FROM THAT TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL,  THE    LAW,

But men took that law right back up,  AND AGAIN, SIN REVIVED AND MAN DIED.

 

All outside GRACE are DEAD in trespasses and sins.  You cannot be in Grace, and have law, it is impossible.  it is a lie of the devil.

mAN DID not not know,   get that,  KNOW,  what sin was, WITHOUT THE LAW

  

<NOBR>Ro 7:7</NOBR> What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


sO,  the LAW gave them the KNOWLEDGE of sin and of good.

Can you not see this?  If not, forget every learning any truth.  You have no ability to see spiritual truth.

It could not get any simpler or plainer.  Anyone who cannot see this, or eat of grace,  simply does NOT WANT GOD'S TRUTH.

You are EATING OF THAT SAME TREE WHICH TOOK ADAM AND MANKIND INTO   DEATH.

Sins are by the law.  You must be DEAD TO THE LAW,  (DIVORCED)  IN ORDER TO BE MARRIED TO   CHRIST >>

<NOBR>Ro 7:4</NOBR> Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
<NOBR>Ro 7:5</NOBR> For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.


By the LAW, comes the fruit unto  DEATH.

sO THEN, DEATH IS BY THE LAW, OR THAT TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL    THIS IS EXACTLY WHY NO ADVENTIST CAN OR WILL EVER SEE THE TRUTH OF WHAT THAT TREE WAS OR IS.

You could not take this truth.

Jo


Reply
 Message 11 of 13 in Discussion 
From: DoveySent: 7/20/2008 1:27 AM
By the LAW, comes the fruit unto  DEATH.<FREEBORN>
 
None of those verses are telling us that God's law CAUSES US TO SIN.  The Commandments of God DO NOT cause us to sin.  Scripture tells us that "The transgress of the law is sin.." I John 3:4.
 
By the law/commandment comes the fruit(knowledge) of WHAT SIN IS.  Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
 
WE don't obey God's commandments because we think the law saves us. We obey the commandment because if we don't then we SIN. And Scripture tells us that "the WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH'. Romans 6:23 
Through the Commandment God tells us what sin is.
 
Obeying God's commandments IS NOT SIN.
1Cr 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak [this] to your shame.
 
DOVEY
 
 

Reply
 Message 12 of 13 in Discussion 
From: DoveySent: 7/20/2008 1:30 AM
 
I want to ask you a question >>>> which day is the Day of Salvation? >>>S, M, T, W, T,F, or S?
 
Please tell me and also how many hours are in this Day?<Freeborn>
 
God is offering salvation to some now. This has nothing to do with the 4th Commandment. However, when God offers salvation He tells us to REPENT.  From what? SIN.  What is sin?  "Sin is the transgression of the law..."
I John 3:4.
 
Simple and to the point.
 
DOVEY

Reply
 Message 13 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 7/20/2008 3:16 AM
Nope, not simple and not to the point.  You think that REPENT is all of that verse?  It is NOT.  repentance alone will never give you remission of sin.  You are leaving out an important part of being saved.
 
keeping law will never remit your sin.  that old law is NOT LIFE, IT IS DEATH.
 
but the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD ARE LIFE AND THEY ARE SPIRIT.
nOW WITH THAT I will prove to you that law is not commandments.
 
No, we do not try to keep law, because if we do not we sin.  That is not true for a Christian.  the blood of Jesus Christ has cleansed us from ALL SIN, and given us a new nature, by which we now love righteousness and keep God's commandments by the Spirit which he gave us.
 
it is not keeping that old law.  that law is death.  it is not God's commandments.
 
Under the new covenant, there is no sin.  get that.....no sin. there is no law to transgress.  We are not under law, so we are not in sin, nor worring about committing sin and being lost.
 
Transgressing law and sinning is only to those of YOU who flat refuse to come into the New Covenant of Grace, by OBEYING GODS COMMANDMENT, WRITTEN IN ACTS 10;  ACTS 2:38.
 
sO you do not think that keeping or obeying God's commandment saves us?  How very silly.  how else then can one be saved?  there is no other way.  obeying God's COMMANDMENT is the only way possible to be saved.
 
you are in such error and darkness that it is really scary.
 
Here is PROOF that the COMMANDMENT OF GOD IS LIFE:

JohN 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Jesus also said, the WORDS I SPEAK ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE.

sO, it is not the law of Moses which is the commandment of God.  It is the teachings of Jesus Christ, and that is what saves us.

So you are into much error and darkness, and death.

Now this is simple and to the truth.

Jo


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