Thanks for replying so quick. I really didn't think it was abuse, but you are right. She has controlled the situation with my grandchildren for a long time. It has been a roller coaster ride, with me not seeing much of them or when she needed me to babysit I could have them. When she didn't need me or got mad I wouldn't see them or if I got too close to any of them she would stop letting me see them. My grandson showed up today out of the blue again, got a friends mom to drop him off. He is the only one who makes the effort he is going into seventh grade. I told my daughter that she would not be able to stop them when they got older anyway. When you have a grandbaby you can't see, I know how much that hurts, she did that to me I dont' have many memories of them then. If you can have rights as grandparents in your state that would be the way to go . I should have done that years ago. It will take the control out of your child's hand, as kids are just to be used to fill their needs.  I am going through stuff with my youngest son at home too, he is verbally abusive to me and has been getting into trouble not going to school, and drinking.  . There are so many issues going on in my home that It's a wonder I am not off my rocker lol. Sorry if I am saying too much, just need to let things out sometimes.