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Reply
Recommend  Message 1 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSilken2004  (Original Message)Sent: 8/7/2007 5:01 AM
Okay.. I hafta admit that part of my reason for creating this forum is because I am attempting to truly change my life on a permanent basis.  It's one thing to change a clothing style, or even a habit but it's quite another when we find ourselves needing to change something that happens near the very core of our spirits.  Most of the time, we aren't even sure what it is but we can be certain of one thing.. If we don't grab it and either make friends with it or toss it out, we are in serious trouble!
 
Such is the case in my own life where despite my best efforts, I have tended to end up in relationships where I end up being a rescuer or a messiah of sorts to the kind of people who are constantly in some sort of desperate straits that they get into by making impulsive, self-centred decisions.
 
I realize that I may gravitate toward someone who visibly needs my particular skills and strengths but guess what?  Just because I am an excellent housekeeper, doesn't mean that's what I want to do with my life...
 
But it feels to me that the harder I try to get out of the domestic role, the harder others will try to push me back in.  I can't help but wonder why this is? 
 
This is true of other areas as well.  The more self-sufficient I become, the more I find people who want a woman to be dependent and committed.  The more I try to change, the more some people want me to stay the same.
 
Letting go is another terrible challenge for me.  When I do get into a committed relationship, with only one exception, it has been with every intention of doing my share to bring the wood in for the fire... I tend to end up with people who really appreciate that and appreciate it even more when they can just sit and watch... When it's time to end it (after I have tried every way I know to resolve it), I find that I am the one grieving while the other guy is off having a pretty good time within hours of being gone... Now WHY is that?
 
I hope that this forum will allow each of us to present our personal challenges knowing that many of us have led some very difficult lives...
 
And if anyone has any ideas about not only embracing change but HOW TO embrace change... I look forward to reading them...
 
Silken
 

I am
seeking
between
and
zip code
 

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Reply
Recommend  Message 2 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLadyinKansas2Sent: 8/7/2007 6:53 AM
Awww my dear Sis.  As you well know....I have been there and done that. 
 
All I can tell you is change comes from within ourselves...it is something we have to do on a day to day basis. 
 
 Remember, the people we are today were not created over night.  We are creatures that took literally our entire lives to make.  Changing ourselves will take time also.
 
    I think to embrace change we have to first truly accept it is not only what we need to do but what we want to do in order to have the lives we know we deserve. 
 
                           Trying to learn here also,
 
                                              Lady
 
 

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Recommend  Message 3 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname芦茠么庐莽茅d拢玫搂鈥犅睹宦o拷?/nobr>Sent: 8/21/2007 4:56 AM
Hey Silk,
 
First off.. I dont have all the answers.. if I did, I wouldnt be where I am either lol. We all know that most people fear change. Most of us get stuck in the RUT of life... you know... same thing day in day out. So no matter how bad or unattractive our lives are, we're use to it. Sure we may complain about it, heck we, might even know someone about to get into the same kind of life we have and are one of the first to tell them... "DONT DO IT!!"  yet we're in the same predictament and find it hard to leave. Mostly it comes from upbringing, a learned behaviour... you know... "You've made your bed, now lay in it".. that kind of stuff.
 
It's our comfort level... it has been lowered though time and tribulations that we have faced in life... beated down emotionally, physically, phycologically, intellectually, mentally etc. and we unknowingly have just adapted, cause that's who we are as caring human beings. I believe that one day comes along and well, smartens us up. Our brains and hearts say to us.. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!... I deserve better than this! That's where our challenge lies. Why? Cause even though we know it's toxic for us to be where we are in life, it's what we're use to... we dont know (or forgot) how to be anything else.
 
It must be (I'm guessing) like someone that has lost the use of their legs and then through some miracle, has gotten the use of them back. They dont just jump up and start running right away.... they have to learn all over again. Even though it's more exciting to know that they will be able to walk and run again, the scary part is learning to do so. All the staggering, trips and falls they must endure.... but for them, it's abit easier I'd say, cause it only encompasses the physical realm of themselves... they KNOW what the outcome will be.
 
In doing what you, I and others are doing or trying to accomplish, it's alot harder. It's not like dealing with only the physical part of ourselves, but ALL the realms of our very own being... mentally, emotionally, spritually, pycologically, intellectually and our very own soul.. That's alot to deal with. But just like the person that had to learn how to walk and run again, we have to start the same way......................... BABY STEPS. It's gonna take that, and alot of support from people in your life...... you know you have friends here!!
 
As usual, I started babbling again but I hope that I made some sort of sense and in some small way have helped you abit. I was gonna keep it simple and only leave you with a saying. It's something that for the longest time now, I have it on the way beside my bed so I read it daily when I was just starting my changes in life about 4 years ago.... I was really messed up then (well maybe abit now as well lol). It was something to remind me of my goal and helped me to start a new day.  I truly hope with all my heart this works for you too.
 
 
This is it....
 
 
The degree to which you will change is in direct proportion to the amount
of truth you can accept about
yourself.
 
Your Bud,
Andy
 
With a BIG HUG for you!!
 
 

Reply
Recommend  Message 4 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameEmeraldlassie0Sent: 8/21/2007 9:31 AM
You are grieving and he is not.  You may never have the answer to why that is. I grappled with it for years and drove myself further and further down in the process.  Let go for you.
I haven't really spoke in the group of where I have come from in terms of how much I lost, how ill I was and how I reached a fork in my road and had to decide either to give up and spend the rest of my life without my kids and probably living on the streets, or to fight back.  I'm still fighting back Silk.  I've told you, Lady and Andy some of what I went through but not all.  I know how it feels to be so devastated, hopeless and distraught that life doesn't feel worth living.  But I came back slowly. Always knew there was a light at the end of the tunnel but used to question why the friggin tunnel was so long!
It's only now some 8 years later that I feel the light shining on my face! And I don't care any more that he doesn't grieve.  You told me you were a Survivor and I believe that.  We all are right!
Quietly behind you!
Em

Reply
Recommend  Message 5 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSilken2004Sent: 8/21/2007 12:38 PM
My dear Sis.. I know that you have also experienced the crisis of change at many times in your life and I know that you know what you're talking about...
 
It's strange tho'.. When I was growing up, every young girl I knew was being "sculpted" to be a wife, mother, homemaker.. etc.  In order to convince a little girl that these were her "areas of importance", a lot of work went into making us people who would find it natural to give up our own hopes, needs, dreams and wishes for the people she would eventually create a sense of family for... From the play dollhouses to the fairytales that never told us what happened to Cinderella after the Prince rode off with her to the little tiny collection of bride dolls, we were all learning that "nurturance", "sacrifice" and "compromise" would be the order of our lives. 
 
And then.. all of a sudden in the 80's and 90's, everything we'd ever learned about being wives and mothers suddenly became a disorder that the experts tagged "co-dependency".  It was a shock to many of us to find that our whole upbringing and how many of us had spent the first 20 or 30 years of our adulthood was now considered a "disorder"... They even went so far as to call it an "addiction" to "fixing other people's lives".  In short, we got to spend the first years being trained to be co-dependent.. then we got to spend the next 20 years taking care of our homes and our families without earning any kind of paycheques, job references or pensions and nobody seemed to mind.. and THEN, we get to spend the next 10 years or so feeling STUPID for how we spent the first 30 or 40 years... I mean... how is that for backlash???
 
These inner changes we are all called to make with the transition of cultural thinking and the tremendous need to call those of us who lived as we had been molded to live, are causing a tremendous conflict for a lot of us.  We can already see what is happening in society by our NOT being co-dependents and now the question becomes, "Who's minding the kids?"  Marriages are collapsing at a fierce rate, children are ending up as latch key kids, the crime rate is on the rise and narcissism is rampant everywhere we look...
 
I dunno.. We can talk about these inner changes but it doesn't change the fact that a whole bunch of us are really messed up and simply don't know what the hell we're supposed to be doing...
 
Don't you think???
 
Thoughtfully and with love,
 
Silken
 

Reply
Recommend  Message 6 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSilken2004Sent: 8/22/2007 12:27 AM
Andy, my dear dear friend... You make some excellent points here... And it's interesting to see this from your male perspective!  Funny how people say that each gender looks at things so differently when I find it is more often the case that we agree on many points in so many issues.
 
I agree that so many of our weaknesses come about simply because we are less frightened of the demons we know as opposed to the demons we don't know.  Regardless of how "really bad" any particular situation is, if we've been there a few times before, it somehow is far more digestible than a new situation that is less bad. 
 
I am not a "rut" type of person in my recent years.  I spent ohhh-so-long in the domestic rut in the earlier years while my children were still young but I have a strong aversion to it now.  I think if I have a "problem" characteristic, it is that I steer so hard away from anything that has the potential to put me back in the "rut" situation and that is just as bad because as you say, there are some things about the "rut" that are pretty comfortable and I am rather lost without them.
 
I think in my own particular situation, I came to a point where "learned helplessness" became the appropriate title for my condition.  Over time, I learned that each and every one of my attempts to "get up" or "get out" was going to be defeated.  For example, I would start a new job and the friction at home would get so bad that I would be going to work exhausted and always afraid of the "smear campaign" he kept offering to conduct if I would not "play ball" according to his rules.  Inevitably, something would happen that would cause me to lose whatever I'd gained and the disappointment and heartache that came with it was almost intolerable... So.. I just got to the point where I was unwilling to "get up".  That's what living with someone who has his disorders will do to someone.
 
I like the saying you've chosen as your daily credo but I have to say, if I accepted any more "truths" about myself than those that have been disclosed in the past few years, I would be drowning in 'em....
 
I am determined to go forward... And this time, I am not scared to recognize and separate the people who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves from the people who do... I don't care who it is.. They won't last long in front of me if I find out they lack conscience and empathy. 
 
Thank you for taking the time to offer me your valuable thoughts about my upcoming changes my dear friend.  Your insights and perspectives are right on the money and your caring adds to my strength...
 
Thank you for being you...
 
With luv n hugggs,
 
Silken
 

Reply
Recommend  Message 7 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameSilken2004Sent: 8/22/2007 12:57 AM
Em.. I thank you so much for contributing your thoughts to this issue.  I know that you have been through a great deal in your life and it is a testimony to your tremendous strength that you are still in there swinging.
 
I have, however, identified what his problem is.  He is a narcissistic psychopath and one of about 300,000 who have actually been identified to have this disorder in Canada alone.  I have actually joined an MSN group that has a surplus of information about this disorder and it is incredible to me that it took me until I was 52 years old to realize that this was the kind of person I found so fascinating through the years. 
 
I grew up with a father who was a handsome and charming alcoholic who somehow managed to win my mother's complete devotion regardless of the fact that he was incapable of being faithful, honest or supportive.  He was often gone for years at a time.. But somehow, my mother's love for him remained through the years.  They ultimately divorced and in his older years, he ended up living in an apartment beneath hers.  It was just a wonky situation but because of his abuse and cruelty, I ended up with a lot of questions as well as being brought up admiring my mother's huge love for him. 
 
As a child, I heard her sobbing into her pillow at night and saw her standing at her window in the middle of the night with tears streaming down her face.  She was always so very lonely for him.  On the other hand, he was off partying, buying nice warm clothes, enjoying different women and laughing through the months.  I grew up being more like my mother but WANTING to be more like my father.  I wasn't insane enough to want to hurt my way through life.
 
And as life does, it brought me full circle with this relationship.  I now understand that my father had a very very serious disorder and one that kept my mother invisibly chained.  She never knew when he was going to show up and he never left without warning her of what he would do if he found her with anyone else, when he decided to return.
 
My questions have been answered where my father and mother were concerned and I thank God, that like my mother, I knew to get a solvent career under my belt.  It will ultimately be my saving grace... And as I go forward, I will work hard myself within my own legal arena to educate those who like me, don't really understand "why she stays".
 
At the end of the day, I believe that if the person I have been with could fully understand that he is suffering from a disorder that makes him incapable of loving anyone else, he would probably want to change but the disorder itself makes that impossible... I can only leave him in God's loving hands as I move forward and be thankful for own ability to feel, care and love.
 
I am... sadly.. at peace... And I have various members of this wonderful community to thank for holding me up when I fell apart...
 
God bless all of you for stumbling along this road with me...
 
Luv n hugggs,
 
Silken
 

Reply
Recommend  Message 8 of 8 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameEmeraldlassie0Sent: 8/22/2007 2:43 AM
One line of TITANIC summed up he end of your post to me Silk.
 
"You jump..............
I jump."
 
But in our case it's we instead of I, with  the close knit people in the group. We're all in this together, Think my ex was Narcisstic too but doesn't see that.
I stopped trying to change him when I realised that this was just the way he was."
Love
EM

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