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British History : It is magnificent, but it is not war.
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 Message 1 of 111 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamemajorshrapnel  (Original Message)Sent: 4/24/2008 4:36 PM
These are the words of a French General watching the Light Brigade disappear into the Russian lines. So what else do we know about it?


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 Message 97 of 111 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemajorshrapnelSent: 5/10/2008 3:01 PM

As shot shell and bullet began to take away sections of the regiments, Cardigan could hold them no longer at the trot and was forced into a canter and the closer they came, the more devastating the fire. Eventually he could hold them no longer, the trumpets blew, lances dipped, swords went to arms�?length and hundreds of yelling, cursing men galloped at full speed, straight into the Russian volleys. Whole sections were swept away, but nothing was ever going to stop these men reaching their objective. And even amidst this horror of shot and shell, blood and gore, traditional regimental rivalry could not be stifled, with one Trooper from the 13th Dragoons yelling out, “c’mon men, don’t let those bastards of the 17th get there before us.�?/P>

In the book�?The Crimean War, a Russian perspective, by A Seaton, the Russian archives mention their leaders viewpoint, that all of the Russian officers were of the same opinion that nothing was going to stop these frenzied horsemen. They had already sampled British cavalry a few hours earlier and it had come as an unpleasant surprise to them, especially as they themselves were convinced they were unmatchable and the experience had severely shaken their belief in themselves. Not only were the officers convinced they were not going to be stopped, but also the Cossacks, sat as they were in front of a troop of infantrymen and when it was certain, nothing would stop the Lights, they turned their mounts about in a panic and hacked their way through their own men to clear themselves a path of retreat.

Cardigan had picked himself a pspot between two cannon and rode straight for it, but as he arrived almost between them, they both fired simultaneously. The blast of air on either flank of his horse actually fetched it to a halt, but Cardigan dug his heals in and passed through the gap, the first man to reach the guns. He rode through the smoke and when he suddenly came into a clear patch of ground, he found himself face to face with hundreds of cavalry and the whole of the Russian command. Some moved to attack him, but fortunately, one of the Russian aristocrats recognised him from a previous function and forbade them, otherwise Cardigan could have been killed or captured. Now that he had delivered his men to the action, he calmly turned about and rode as calm as you like, back up the valley from where he had rode. Fighting hand to hand with common soldiers was beneath him. He had done his duty, as far as he was concerned, he’d got his men to the action, it was now time to go back and wreck Nolan’s career.

The rest of the Lights surged through the cannon, slaughtering the crews as they did and charged on into the packed Russian infantry and cavalry It was now a frenzy of cut and thrust, with a hundred smaller engagements going on all around. Those dismounted fought feverishly on foot if necessary.

Meanwhile, back up the valley, help was to arrive from the French Chasseurs d�?Afrique, who charged the Russian’s right flank, silencing the cannon and putting the infantry to flight. The survivors of the Lights would now only face fire from one side of the valley on their return.

The withdrawal was just as costly as the charge, as both men and horses were utterly exhausted. Men refused to leave their horses, whilst others struggled gamely on, carrying their wounded pals and all the time under attack from Russian Lancers, who rode around attacking the stragglers. It was a scene of havoc as slowly men arrived back in singles and groups, to cheers from their fellow soldiers. Cardigan sought out the remnants of his regiment and addressed them�?“Men, it was a mad brained trick, but it was no fault of mine.�?A voice the ranks called out�?“Never mind my Lord, Go again sir?�?“No no,�?he replied, “you have done enough for today.�?/P>


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 Message 98 of 111 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemajorshrapnelSent: 5/15/2008 10:19 AM
 
The man himself

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 Message 99 of 111 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemajorshrapnelSent: 5/15/2008 10:21 AM
 
The 17th Lancers during the charge. This regiment suffered the most casualties 

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 Message 100 of 111 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemajorshrapnelSent: 5/15/2008 10:25 AM
 
This is the actual casualty figures, made out soon after the charge. The figures for the horses rose to over 400 

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 Message 101 of 111 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 5/15/2008 5:48 PM
Hummmmmmmmm
 
Too many officers killed. Any chance for a recount?

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 Message 102 of 111 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 5/15/2008 8:46 PM
May I , and I am being serious, congratulate you for a beautifully illustrated, and well divided therefore manageable account.
 
Thank you. At 60, I was dimly aware that something had gone on in the Crimea, but I have never read such a digestible history before.  
 
Something some of the paste and post school should adopt.

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 Message 103 of 111 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 5/15/2008 9:02 PM
I agree, if only I could arrange my riveting account of the genealogy of the Lords Stafford in such a manner.

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 Message 104 of 111 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman191Sent: 5/15/2008 10:25 PM
Change it to Strafford; there won't be much to write.

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 Message 105 of 111 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemajorshrapnelSent: 5/16/2008 9:23 AM
101...well, as you know Flash, officers are always the first to go, as they lead from the front. I've had quite a few run-ins with rabid pinko's over this fact in my time, as they all to a man believe every officer sits 25 miles behind the lines. A fact they want to believe, because it suits their warped view.

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The number of members that recommended this message. 0 recommendations  Message 106 of 111 in Discussion 
Sent: 5/16/2008 9:56 AM
This message has been deleted due to termination of membership.

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 Message 107 of 111 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemajorshrapnelSent: 5/16/2008 10:07 AM
Thank you for your kind words. I suppose I will deal with the aftermath now. Many of the men were taken prisoner by the Russians and to their credit, treated very well. Liprandi, the Russian general, went amongst them afterwards and asked them what they had been given to drink, to induce them to make such a charge. Private Weightman of the 17th replied “Drink! Why, if we had taken so much as a sniff of a bottle, we’d have taken half of Russia by now.�?Liprandi admired their humour, as well as their bravery. The divisions of infantry had finally arrived on the plain and the Heavies were ready to go again, but once more, the French refused point blank to go into action, so Raglan did nothing. Therefore the jewel of a dozen Royal Navy cannon were towed off to Sevastopol, the roads were not secured to the fortress, which allowed the Russians to reinforce it and the troops would have to endure a winter, in which many of them would die of disease and cold brought on by malnutrition. Cardigan remained upon his yacht, but Lucan, as always, suffered alongside his men. Raglan died in the Crimea, it was said, of a broken heart, after witnessing the terrible conditions his men endured before dying. Cardigan returned home a hero, whilst Lucan was castigated from all quarters. Eventually, matters took a turn and Carddigan found himself the butt of rumours to the effect that he’d never reached the guns in the first place. He took the instigator to court and won, but the mud stuck. Lucan was finally cleared completely by a board of enquiry and went onto outlive Cardigan, who died aged 71 after falling off his horse with a stroke. The Crimean war was to change so many things in the military. It was the first war to be extensively reported on and as a result, the private soldier went from uncultured thug to national hero. Facilities and conditions improved out of all recognition from that point, with army welfare and medical corps being started, along with colleges, where the new officers would have to learn their trade and rise through merit, not purchase.

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 Message 108 of 111 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemajorshrapnelSent: 5/16/2008 11:19 AM
 It is said that it was a disaster, but was it the kind which is the common perception? Casualty figures vary slightly, depending on whose account you read, but around 115 is quite average. It is a lot, but not by the standards of the day and consider this; there were 673 men charging straight down the barrel of a cannon. They had riflemen to both sides and front, yet they managed to reach the Russian lines despite all this, where then they found themselves outnumbered by 25 to 1. Yet, they slaughtered the artillery crews and put the Cossacks to flight, as well as many of their cavalry and infantry. Artillerymen in Russia were not easy come by. They had proved once again what a formidable fighting force they were and utterly shattered the Russian’s confidence and morale. The reputation of the Cossacks was in pieces and trust between their forces was severely damaged. When you consider that 16.000 men died of cold and disease alone, the figure pales by comparison.

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 Message 109 of 111 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemajorshrapnelSent: 5/16/2008 2:17 PM
On the contrary Tiger, Lord Cardigan led from the front, when it came to the charge. The pinko's I refered to will not concede that officers do that. Whatever Cardigan was, and he was a not too savoury character, one cannot impune his personal courage. If required, he would have led a hundred charges. I have no record of any British officer of the day ever being cashiered for cowardice. In the words of the great American author, William Manchester, talking of British officers.... 'no braver officers ever led men into battle.' All I want is for that fact to be recognised by their predudiced detractors, who wish to believe they somehow skulk in the background.
 

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Sent: 5/16/2008 3:32 PM
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 Message 111 of 111 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamemajorshrapnelSent: 5/18/2008 10:35 AM
Last year I began  research into my, and my wife's family tree, and a fascinating exercise it was. I discovered so much, but it took over our lives for quite some time. Anyway, tracing one of my wife's relatives, we found she was born in an army barracks in Yorkshire and it turned out her father was in the 5th Dragoon Guards and this was in the 1850's. So, when we return to the hunt this year, I am going to attempt to find out if he took part in the charge of the Heavies, as the regiment was there.

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