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| | From: Berengaria (Original Message) | Sent: 3/9/2004 6:04 PM |
Recently read an unenlightening passage stating that when William the Conqueror invaded England, he did so flying the papal banner, with papal sanction, & that Harold had been excommunicated for allowing England to "indulge in peculiar religious practices". Anyone know anything more about this subject? |
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Hmmmm.....I can't think of an answer here but I am bumping this up in case someone else can & may have overlooked the question! |
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I'm wondering if, instead of THE papal banner it was rather A banner that had been blessed by the Pope. I doubt that William would have been allowed to use the personal banner of the Pope or that of the Papacy. Just my idea. Sanglier Blanc (ranger 243) |
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I wish I could find my book "Harold, the Last Anglo Saxon King" written during the last few years that at one point deals with the issue of the Papal Banner, but it's buried somewhere in my ad hoc library stacked in boxes in the spare bedroom closet and my back is out at the moment and not up to the necessary digging. If memory serves me correctly, the Pope at that time was no friend of Normans, having been taken captive by them at one point and subjected to their typical strong-arm tactics in order to win his freedom during their takeover of the the southern Italian peninsula--and was defineately at outs with them in 1066 and not likely to be sympathetic to anything which would further any Norman's cause. The dealings with the Normans and the Pope on this issue had more to do with the Pope being angry at William and having him to do penance for attacking and usurping the crown of an annoited king. The Papal Banner story seems to have been invented later by William of Poitiers (and you know how reliable a source he is), or some such Norman apologist, to give William's invasion after-the-fact legitimacy and has been repeated as gospel ever since. (The victor, as they say, writes the history books). The book is very well researched and has the dates and facts to back this up, and when my back is better I'll dig it out and post the particulars. |
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Ohhhhh...someone else posted not too long ago that they were reading this very book...was it Terrilee??? |
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Thanks to all who responded for the information! |
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Nope, not meeee I enjoy reading about the Normans, but not nearly as exahustively as the Tudors, War of Roses, MQOS, French Revolution, Russion Revolution...oops! got off-topic here! Just as a side comment ~ it's really neat to see the membership growing again so we can share our obsession with these historical figures. The world today is not nearly as intersting - despots, stong men, Presidents-for-life, and those boring old folks in Windsor! Can you imagine H8 being patient all those years if H7 had ruled as long as Liz2!!! |
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| | From: Frank | Sent: 7/15/2005 4:43 PM |
One of the issues involved was that the Archbishop of Canterbury in 1066 was Stigand, who had been chosen without papal approval through an irregular procedure after the demands of the Anglo-Saxon earls for the deposition of Robert of Jumieges (a Norman and friend of Edward the Confessor), and was thus considered unfit for the office by the authorities in Rome. William wanted him out because, if he were to make good on his conquest, he would sooner or later have to be crowned by the Archbishop (which he was, on Christmas Day); and Harold had been crowned by Stigand on January 6, a fact that William could use to assert that Harold was never rightfully king - being crowned by a usurping Archbishop. The Pope saw an opportunity for himself in a Norman victory, and was willing therefore to allow William use of the papal banner. And no, there's no real distinction between "a" banner and "the" banner. |
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Thanks for clarifying that, Frank! |
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