ALL MY TUDORS...history chat

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Masterpiece Theatre - The Virgin Queen
Sunday, November 13 at 9 PM & Sunday, November 20 at 9 PM PBS CH 4

Anne-Marie Duff stars as The Virgin Queen in a lavish new two-part drama based on the improbable rise and tumultuous reign of one of England's greatest monarchs: Elizabeth I. The series explores the full sweep of Elizabeth's life: from her days of fear as a potential victim of her
sister, "Bloody" Mary); through her great love affair with Robert Dudley; into her years of triumph over the Spanish Armada; and finally
her old age and her last, enigmatic relationship with her young protégé, the Earl of Essex.

Yea!!! Thanks for the heads up!

So did anyone have any comments/quibbles on the broadcast last night? I was working at my computer while watching, so I may have misunderstood, but I thought that they had the character of Lettice Knollys with Elizabeth at the beginning, when Mary was queen and Elizabeth was in danger because of Wyatt's rebellion. Wasn't the Knollys family in Holland (or somewhere on the continent) because of their religion until Mary's death? If it was Lettice with Elizabeth, they didn't go to the trouble of explaining their family ties, just had her crawling into bed with Dudley by the end of the program. (Even tho they really didn't get married until 1578, 20 years after E became queen.) {Never mind Lady Sheffield, guess her illegetimate child with Dudley didn't happen!}

Which leads me to my usual complaint about historical dramas. They condense the time - it seemed like everything from E's attack of smallpox to MQOS's marriage to Darnley to Lettice & Dudley getting together happened one after the other. No one aged. And the character of Elizabeth had the disconcerting habit of running madly about, with her hair hanging around her face, like a young girl.

Also, when Randolph came on behalf of MQOS, he brought a portrait of her, which looked like the ones painted of her when she was in captivity. An older woman, with the larger ruff of later Elizabethan times and the white lace cap drooping over her forhead. You would never have guessed that MQOS was younger than E! Also, E had an intimate dinner with the Duke of Norfolk and accused him of writing letters to MQOS and then sent him to the tower. And this right after she talked to Randolph about MQOS marrying Darnley! Nevermind that this didn't happen until after Kirk O'Field and Langside!

Now, I know that they can't show everything that happened, that's not what I expected. I just felt that history was misrepresented when all these events kept happening right after another, with no feeling of time passing for the characters. {grumble}

Am I too picky, or did anyone else notice this kind of stuff?

They did seem to run events one after the other, but that is what happens in a movie or something important is completely left out. I think the casting was very good except for Philip, the person playing him was too old and too heavy. Wasn't Philip at least 12 years younger than Mary? The picture of MQOS looked like one of her much later in life, but it wasn't shown that well. All in all I really enjoyed it and am looking forward to part 2......Judy

That's my main complaint about historical dramas too, apart from when they make things up etc. They condense events to make it appear they all happened in the space of a few weeks. Still it's nothing new, Shakespeare did it too.

I taped it and am watching it now. I am enjoying it but will keep in mind the things others are saying as well. It's good to see historical dramas or the monarchy but good to when others reminded us of what is authentic and what is not. Thanks

Brat finally coughed up the tape of this & I got to see it. O Terrilee, you are so right! There was no explanation at all of who Lettice was in relationship to Elizabeth, & the entire Knollys family DID run off to the Continent when Mary came to power, so it was impossible for Lettice to have been with Elizabeth either in the Tower or at Woodstock. All they did was slyly hint that Lettice wanted everything Elizabeth had, including Dudley, with having her see how Elizabeth's earrings looked on herself & the sort of eye rolling faces she made. I don't ever recall seeing anything that Lettice & Dudley were an item prior to her marriage to Walter Devereaux. And you're right, where was Douglass Sheffield & Dudley's son by her?

Plus it made it seem as if Elizabeth was an isolated prisoner at Woodstock right up until Mary died, when she had been summoned as heir-presumptive to be present at Mary's "confinement", & was also receiving courtiers in a steady stream at Hatfield while Mary lay gasping her last.

The whole time I kept thinking why on earth does she look so unkempt, besides! What they did was create a caricature of Elizabeth....I was expecting elegance & style & instead there were just really bad wigs & ugly gowns.

Also, it did have everything run together without so much as showing a "Greenwich 1565" for example in an opening scene to show that time had passed, which was very disorienting to say the least.

What I found really bizarre was how the characters were not subtly aging....Elizabeth lookd the same when Alencon was courting her as she did on her coronation day nearly 20 years prior to that! Then all of a sudden Cecil had a white beard & could barely walk, while Elizabeth & Lettice suddenly became a pair of raddled old hags...& is it just me or was that REALLY bad makeup for that?? I mean, the lines carved into Elizabeth's forehead never moved LOL Yet as Terrilee pointed out, they made MQOS look like she was in her 40s right from the start....weird.

I thought the casting was pretty awful myself. As Judymar pointed out, Philip was more Elizabeth's contemporary than Mary's, & he was short, slight, & fair-haired....so they cast him as a tall, dark, graying, fat 50 year old? Mary was also a short, slight redhead, yet they had her a tall brunette towering over Elizabeth. Dudley was the worst....he looked like a high school kid & hardly aged at all even though he was in his 50s when he died! He did NOT look like he was the same age as Elizabeth....Elizabeth, who was 20 when the movie started, looked more like she was on the hard side of 30. Whereas Essex, I thought, looked a little TOO old, as he WAS the age of a high school kid when he came to Elizabeth's notice. Plus he looked so greasy-haired & sloppy all the time....yuck!

If they could do enough research to have Robert Cecil walk with a limp (though they forgot his hunchback LOL), why couldn't they have done a little better in casting everyone to suit what was historically accurate?

I absolutely hated the Tilbury scene....Elizabeth screamed her speech in this horrid scratchy voice that made you want to tell her to shut up already. And that annoying singing in the background whenever there was a significant plot point.....GRRRRRRR

Now I know a lot of "historical" films aren't totally accurate....Anne of the Thousand Days is one of them....but sometimes you can get beyond that if the casting, costuming, makeup etc. is fabulous & just settle in to enjoy even as you're going ok that didn't happen like that but damn that Genevieve Bujold is the quintessential Anne so who cares LOL I don't think Anne-Marie Duff embraced the character of Elizabeth fully enough to be believable was the problem here.

I don't know when or even if you'll get to see this in the USA, but Elizabeth I starring Helen Mirren is fantastic. She is superb but my favourite character is the wonderfully lugubrious Francis Walsingham. There's a short thread already about it under "Elizabeth on UK Telly" on this page.

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