MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
ALL MY TUDORS...history chat[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  ♦Greetings!  
  ♦Bits & Pieces  
  ♦Death & Burial  
  ♦Brasses & Monuments  
  Read this BEFORE you apply for membership!  
  ♦Group Guidelines  
  ♦To the Boards  
  ♦Message Board  
  
  General  
  
  The Dark Ages  
  
  The Normans  
  
  The Plantagenets  
  
  The Tudors  
  
  The Stuarts  
  
  Mysteries  
  
  Book Talk  
  
  Tudor Topics  
  
  Crusades  
  
  RBOR  
  
  WOTR  
  
  Right Royal Xmas  
  
  Royal Holidays  
  
  Misc Pages  
  ♦AMT Member Map  
  ♦AMT Member List  
  ♦This Week in History  
  ♦Castle of the Day  
  ♦AMT Goes to the Movies  
  ♦Lovely Links  
  ♦Brilliant Books  
  ♦Royal Begats  
  ♦The Royal Book of Records  
  ♦The Crusades  
  ♦The Wars of the Roses  
  ♦Six Wives  
  ♦Off With Her Head  
  ♦The Reformation in England  
  ♦The Tudors and the Tower  
  ♫Tudor Music  
  ♦Tudor Limericks  
  ♦Elizabethan Insults  
  ♦Elizabethan Dressing  
  ♦Elizabethan Makeup  
  ♦The Invincible Armada  
  ♦The Great Fire of London  
    
  Pictures  
  Manager Tools  
  
  
  Tools  
 
The Plantagenets : The Last Plantagenet
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 3 in Discussion 
From: Greensleeves  (Original Message)Sent: 11/28/2002 12:08 PM
TDIH states that today in 1499, Edward, Earl of Warwick was executed on Tower Hill, as a result of the aftermath of the Perkin Warbeck affair.  The poor thing had been under lock & key for 16 years, since the age of 9, received no education or training, & finally at age 25 got this ignominious end to the male line of the Plantagenets due to Tudor paranoia.  From all accounts, & I don't know if it's because of the lack of care or because he was genuinely "slow", this last Plantagenet sprig was zero threat to the Tudor throne.  I wonder how Elizabeth of York felt to have yet another of her family sacrificed on the altar of Tudor ambition?  I find it difficult to believe she & Henry VII had anything near a "happy" marriage with all the dynastic problems that arose.  Also, if the Princes in the Tower were such a threat to all parties concerned, what was the reason young Warwick was initially spared, as his claim was equally good?  One has to wonder if Edward IV's boys really didn't die a natural death & it was hushed up in a panic!


First  Previous  2-3 of 3  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 3 in Discussion 
From: ForeverAmberSent: 12/21/2002 7:12 AM
They probably died of upper respiratory infections from all those nasty Tower draughts!!! 
 
But hmm, how DID Henry manage to convince Elizabeth that this unnecessary execution was a good thing?  I wonder if maybe Elizabeth wondered whether Perkin Warbeck really WAS her younger brother?

Reply
 Message 3 of 3 in Discussion 
From: O'hUiginSent: 12/31/2002 10:30 PM
Historians are clear that Edward, Earl of Warwick was mentally slow, but he still was a threat to the Tudor dynasty, if not personally, then genetically.  Please don't forget that England just come out of the Wars of the Roses, where anyone with a remote claim to the throne had every reason to hope they could secure the throne.  H7 is an example.  Edward's claim was better than H7's and even a slow "Prince of the Blood," in that day and age, could have married and begat more Plantagenets.
 
Although the Yorks were a very tightly knit family, Edward's father was the exception.  George, Duke of Clarence, was insidiously unreliable and continuosly scamming to usurp the throne from his brother.  Further, Elizabeth of York was fully aware of the role that a woman was supposed to take in her world, which was very different than today's world.  Additionally, Edward was slow.  Due to the highly superstitious nature of people in that era and their lack of medical knowledge, maybe they felt Edward's seed was tainted.  At any rate, because of all this I really doubt that Elizabeth felt anything deeper than pity for the man.  As for her marriage to H7, it was a different world back then.  Even if Edward hadn't been executed, the marriage probably wouldn't have been very happy by today's standards.  I am guessing it worked very well and was probably a happy marriage because both parties thought from a late midaevil point-of-view and not a Twenty-First Century point-of-view.
 
Warwick was probably spared because his father had been attainted, he was retarded and there were more important things for H7 to be doing from 1485 to 1499.  I very much support the theory that H7 had the Princes in the tower done away with because I believe that E4's pre-contract to marry Eleanor Butler was probably true, given E4's character.  When R3 had E4's children declared illegitimate I believe he did it to strengthen England's government.  To give his claim an added lift, H7 had to reverse that declaration.  Marrying Elizabeth of York would have been dynasticly pointless unless she was a legitimate child of E4.  When he did that then E5 and Richard, Duke of York became legitimate, thus a another threat to his claim.