MSN Home  |  My MSN  |  Hotmail
Sign in to Windows Live ID Web Search:   
go to MSNGroups 
Free Forum Hosting
 
Important Announcement Important Announcement
The MSN Groups service will close in February 2009. You can move your group to Multiply, MSN’s partner for online groups. Learn More
ALL MY TUDORS...history chat[email protected] 
  
What's New
  
  ♦Greetings!  
  ♦Bits & Pieces  
  ♦Death & Burial  
  ♦Brasses & Monuments  
  Read this BEFORE you apply for membership!  
  ♦Group Guidelines  
  ♦To the Boards  
  ♦Message Board  
  
  General  
  
  The Dark Ages  
  
  The Normans  
  
  The Plantagenets  
  
  The Tudors  
  
  The Stuarts  
  
  Mysteries  
  
  Book Talk  
  
  Tudor Topics  
  
  Crusades  
  
  RBOR  
  
  WOTR  
  
  Right Royal Xmas  
  
  Royal Holidays  
  
  Misc Pages  
  ♦AMT Member Map  
  ♦AMT Member List  
  ♦This Week in History  
  ♦Castle of the Day  
  ♦AMT Goes to the Movies  
  ♦Lovely Links  
  ♦Brilliant Books  
  ♦Royal Begats  
  ♦The Royal Book of Records  
  ♦The Crusades  
  ♦The Wars of the Roses  
  ♦Six Wives  
  ♦Off With Her Head  
  ♦The Reformation in England  
  ♦The Tudors and the Tower  
  ♫Tudor Music  
  ♦Tudor Limericks  
  ♦Elizabethan Insults  
  ♦Elizabethan Dressing  
  ♦Elizabethan Makeup  
  ♦The Invincible Armada  
  ♦The Great Fire of London  
    
  Pictures  
  Manager Tools  
  
  
  Tools  
 
The Plantagenets : Berengaria of Navarre
Choose another message board
 
     
Reply
 Message 1 of 13 in Discussion 
From: Berengaria  (Original Message)Sent: 9/22/2002 3:15 AM

Berengaria of Navarre


(1163/65-1230)
Queen of England

Berengaria was the Queen of Richard I of England. A Princess of Navarre, Berngaria was the daughter of Sancho VI of Navarre. She was said the have been very beautiful and well educated. It was said that Berengaria saw and fell in love with Richard when he was still a prince attending a tournament held by her father. It was as a result of this first "meeting" that she became affianced/betrothed to Richard, to whom she was devoted.

Richard's mother, Eleanor of Aquitaine travelled to Navarre to escort Berengaria to Sicily to join Richard, who had already arrived with the Crusade. There Berengaria was left in care of Joanne/Joanna Plantaganet, widow of King William II of Sicily and Richard's sister. With Joanna, Berengaria travelled by ship toward the Holy Land - but fate stepped in, and the fleet that carried the two women was shipwrecked off the coast of Cyprus. Here they were treated with base discourtesy by the usuper Isaac Comnenus.

Richard arrived with the rest of the Crusader fleet and rescued the two women from certain dishonour. Richard and Berengaria were married in Limassol, Cyprus (1191). After the wedding, Berengaria followed Richard to Holy Land, and stayed in Acre with Joanna. After the failure of Third Crusade, Berengaria set sail, reaching Aquitaine (Poitou) ahead of Richard. It was from here that she learned of Richard's capture and imprisonment, and it was here that she remained during Richard's imprisonment (1192 - 1194), helping to raise the enormous ransom.

Berengaria never went to England - she is the only know Queen of England never to have actually stepped foot in England. When Richard was freed four years later and returned to England to be re-crowned, Berengaria remained in Aquitaine. There was said to have been some marital disharmony - she had to put up with the snide rumours of Richard's alleged homosexuality (though he did father a son). Berengaria was reconciled to Richard on Continent (1196), and from this point onwards they were never parted for long. There were no children from this marriage. When Richard died in France, Berengaria was present at his death (1198). So devoted to Richard, Berengaria never remarried. Instead she entered a convent, and from then-on devoted her life and (considerable) income to charitable works. Berengaria built the Abbey at L'Epau, where she was buried after her death.

I wonder if it was Berengaria's DEVOTION to Richard which kept her from remarrying, or perhaps DISTASTE for the married state in general after this disastrous mesalliance?  Certainly it has not been said that her devotion was in any way reciprocated, and with the persistent rumours of his sexual preference, perhaps that side of the marriage was either nothing to write home about or nonexistent in general.  Has anyone else heard anything about this reference to Richard having a bastard?

 


First  Previous  2-13 of 13  Next  Last 
Reply
 Message 2 of 13 in Discussion 
From: GhislaineSent: 9/24/2002 6:47 AM
I've seen allusions to Richard actually having a relationship with Berengaria's BROTHER, Sancho of Navarre, as well as Philip of France, but I have not come across any mention of him siring a child out of wedlock.  Certainly he did not seem overly enamored of poor Berengaria, and I have yet to see any account of Richard's having a mistress as so many kings did.  Speaking of mistresses, Richard's original bethrothed, Alice, Philip's sister, was rumored to have had an affair with Henry II.  I remember seeing somewhere that she was supposed to marry Richard and go on Crusade as well, but then all of a sudden Eleanor of Aquitaine has fetched Berengaria, and Alice is out of the picture.  Whatever became of her?  Anyone know?

Reply
 Message 3 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLadyoftheGlade1Sent: 9/25/2002 4:11 AM
If memory serves me correctly (keep in mind I suffer from CRS [that stands for: can't remember shit] !)
 
The affair between Henry II and Alice of France was more than rumor.  There was quite a frackus over the fact that she was "ruined".  Richard couldn't be expected to marry her and she didn't want to go back to France in "shame".  I think she was finally married off to a lesser French noble (for political reasons of course) who still deemed it an honor to marry a Princess of France even though she was "ruined".
 
The only reference to Richard I having a bastard is, I believe, a small line from Shakespear.  (and we all know how reliable a source Shakespear is with his hunchbacked, deformed, cripple of a Richard III  !!!!).
 
NO mention of any mistresses for Richard, not even an interest in any woman is ever mentioned anywhere!  But there was MUCH speculation about his relationship with Blondel as well as Philip of France. (Sancho too?)
 
At one point after his marriage to Berengaria and the fact that they had not had a wedding night yet and it had been quite some time...well, the Pope had actually threatened Richard with excommunication if he didn't start "sleeping" with his wife!
 
The number of times they shared a bed can be counted on one hand (and you don't need all your fingers)!

Reply
 Message 4 of 13 in Discussion 
From: atabekârSent: 9/30/2002 8:50 PM
How old was Berengaria , especially as compared to Richard ? - If she were young enough , even with variables accounted for by her relative maturity ( or lack their of ) , she might well have been devoted to Richard , and not missed the lack of marrital activity ..

Reply
 Message 5 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLadyoftheGlade1Sent: 9/30/2002 11:50 PM
Richard I was born in 1157 and Berengaria was born somewhere between 1163 and 1165.
 
They were married in 1191 so that would make Richard 34 and Berengaria 26 - 28.
 
So they were both definately adults and not to much of an age difference.

Reply
 Message 6 of 13 in Discussion 
From: GreensleevesSent: 10/1/2002 4:34 AM
Hmmm.....why was Berengaria on the marriage market for so long?  That is positively middle-aged by Middle Ages standards.  Was there a betrothal prior to Richard that perhaps fell through?
 
 

Reply
 Message 7 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLadyoftheGlade1Sent: 10/1/2002 5:00 AM
Berengaria had seen Richard in a tournament (in Navarre) before he became King.  Mabey six years or so before and she fell in love with him (of course he didn't know she existed).  She refused all suitors and finagled to have Richard.
 
It was something like that...sorry, I'm really tired...it's 12:30am and I have to get up at 5:30am so will have to do a more coherent post about this tomorrow after work (unless someone else can flush this all out...any takers?


Reply
 Message 8 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameWillowCircleSent: 2/20/2005 11:14 PM
Some info on RI's bastard.  According to the book "The Royal Bastards of Medieval England"  he had a son named, ironically, Philip, called Philip de Cognac, born to an unknown mistress some years before Richard became king.  Little is known of him for certain, and he is the bastard referred to in Shakespeare's King John.  Richard gave him the castle and honor of Cognac, and probably married him off to Amelie, daughter of the lord of Cognac, hence the name.  It seems his only noteworthy contribution to history was the murder of the vicomte of Limoges, who he held responsible for his father's death, since RI died while beseiging Limoges castle.  In 1201 he sold his lordship to King John and disappeared forever from the records.   The same book has this to say about Richard's sexuality: "one contemporary said that '"he carried off the wives, daughters and kinswomen of his freeman by force and made them his concubines; and when he had sated his lust on them, he handed them over to his knights for whoring."' 
So Richard was evidently capable with women and was maybe bi, depending on his mood and the availability of partners at any given moment?  That seems the most likely to me.

Reply
 Message 9 of 13 in Discussion 
From: BerengariaSent: 2/21/2005 2:05 PM
Thanks, Willow, for looking that up!  Who is the author of that book?  Sounds interesting.

Reply
 Message 10 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameWillowCircleSent: 2/22/2005 6:18 AM
The book "The Royal Bastards of Medieval England" is by Chris Given-Wilson and Alice Curteis, first published in 1984 and then again by Barnes and Noble Books in 1995, which is the copy I have.
It's got all kinds of stuff in it that I hadn't heard of, not that I'm a great authority, like the bastard SON of EIII and Alice Perrers (I'd heard of their two daughters), who evidently caused a bit of trouble for big brother Thomas of Woodstock.

Reply
 Message 11 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameButterflyCorrineSent: 6/26/2006 8:41 PM
She was reknown for being very beautiful.  I believe that her eyelids were slit in the Saracen manner.  Richard didn't know what he was missing.

Reply
 Message 12 of 13 in Discussion 
From: GreensleevesSent: 7/2/2006 6:18 PM
I believe that her eyelids were slit in the Saracen manner. 
 
There's a custom I've never heard of   Can you elaborate on that, Corinne?

Reply
 Message 13 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLadyoftheGlade1Sent: 7/5/2006 2:55 AM
I too have not heard of such a custom at that time.  Please give us some info on it.
 
As to Berengaria being beautiful...just look at her effigy.  She seems, even by todays standards, to have been very lovely indeed.

First  Previous  2-13 of 13  Next  Last 
Return to The Plantagenets