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| | | From: Greensleeves (Original Message) | Sent: 1/12/2008 7:54 AM |
Jane Seymour....clearly the ugliest of Henry's six queens judging by her chinless portraits (& portrait painters usually flattered their subjects so she must have been a dog LOL). Yet she attracted the king's amorous attentions somehow! Do you think Jane had her eyes on the crown from the get-go? Was she an ambitious, scheming little wench eager to displace her mistress in the royal bed? Was she a pawn in the hands of her equally ambitious brothers, Edward & Thomas? Was she a helpless victim swept along by the king's insistence? Did she bat an eye when Henry killed Anne Boleyn to wed her so quickly? Opinions? |
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It had to be Edward and Thomas pushing her along. I have a sneaking idea that she wasn't too bright, maybe she just looked that way, but she had to be the most used of his wives by her family, to get them in higher places.  |
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Jane may have not been attractive, but I do believe she was smart. She attracted Henry for her complete oppossiteness to Anne. Yes, her brothers had something to do with her coming to court but so did Nicholas Carew. He was instrumental in having Jane serve as maid of honor to Katherine of Aragon. He also was trying to arrange a marriage between Jane and William Dormer. When that failed he got her a place at court. When she was Anne's lady in waiting I believe her looks and demenour were so different from Anne's that because of the differences Henry noticed her. As far as shooting for the crown, remember Jane was never coronated. Granted there didn't seem to be time, but I believe she really loved Henry and wanted to help him find the family life he so longed for. She was the major reason he brought Mary back to court. I really think Jane was tormented by the memories of Anne and Jane knew Anne was innocent, I am sure Jane felt remorse at Anne's death. I think for the most part Jane was a pawn to her family as women were in those times, I think she had genuine feelings for Henry and had she lived the history of England would have been much different. Tudorgalusa |
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I think Jane loved henry...I really do, as much as Henry allowed for a woman to love him. And I agree that what may have attracted Henry to her was the fact that she was so very opposite of Anne. She seemed to have a quiet devotion to him. Plus, was'nt she the one that he wanted to be buried beside? I'd bet she had a calming effect on him also. So maybe her beauty WAS in the eye of the beholder afterall...lol I've wondered too, if she carried around guilt feelings about what happened to Anne. She just seemed like a gentle soul to me. |
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He only wanted to be buried with her, I'm sure, because she was the only one of his wives with whom he achieved complete & utter satisfaction...she gave him a son & she obligingly died before he could tire of her. |
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You might think that Jane Seymour was the most unattractive of Henry's wives...but I think that he would not agree with you....what about Anne of Cleves |
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I think Anne of Cleves is one of the prettier wives; the only thing wrong with her is a long nose & who didn't have those with all the inbreeding going on in the European royal houses LOL Jane was nothing to write home about, that's for sure. I think the reason Henry made such a big stink about A of C is because the royal big boy started refusing to stand at attention around that time, & of course that couldn't POSSIBLY be Henry's fault, so he blamed it on her to get his annulment. I often wonder if he managed to have successful relations with ANY of the last 3 wives. I think Jane was probably every bit as scheming & manipulative as Anne Boleyn is often made out to be. What Anne had successfully done had NEVER been done before; whether or not Henry would even ever be able to marry her & make her queen at all was a crap shoot at best. Jane, who had served both of Henry's wives, observed, listened, & used it. Jane's ploys stood an even greater chance of success, as she knew Henry had already discarded one wife in favor of another; why would it not work for her as well, given the right encouragement? Jane may have thought that, like the first time, Anne would merely be divorced & removed from Court. By the time she realized that Henry could not & would not ever put himself in the same position (2 opposing queen camps, dubious legitimacy of heirs to the throne) & meant to make an end of Anne, it probably wouldn't've done for Jane to back out at suh a late date in the proceedings, even if she could, which I doubt. I'm sure that's why Jane is usually characterized as being "meek", "gentle", etc. She was probably terrified that one wrong move would send her trailing in Anne's footsteps. It couldn't've made for a very pleasant marriage, especially as it took Jane so long to conceive Edward. |
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O I nearly forgot....as per Nicholas Carew. He was actually a distant cousin to Anne Boleyn, but for some reason or other could not stand her. That may have had something to do with the fact that he was tight his entire life with Charles Brandon, the Duke of Suffolk, whose wife Mary Tudor (despite Anne having served her in France) despised Anne as well. Carew was also brought up in the royal nursery with Henry & Mary from the age of 6. He & his wife, Elizabeth Bryan (her brother Francis was another of Henry's favorites, her father Thomas was the comptroller of Catherine's household, & her mother Margaret was Princess Mary's Lady Mistress), are known to have sent letters to Mary through the Imperial ambassador, Chapuys, urging her to submit to Henry's demands as regards the religious changes & her own bastardization, for fear of her life. There's an incident where Henry was in a towering rage at his fool, Will Somers, for making remarks in Catherine & Mary's favor while terming Anne a "bawd" & Elizabeth "bastard". Carew sheltered & hid Somers until Henry's rage passed. He also (along with several others of the Privy Council) thought that Mary & not Elizabeth ought to be named heir if Henry & Jane failed to have issue. Jane spent the weeks of Anne's arrest, trial, & execution at Carew's manor in Suffolk, about a 15-mile ride from Greenwich, & Henry purportedly spent the night there on several occasions during these proceedings. While Carew of course wasn't stupid enough to oppose Henry in getting rid of Catherine & marrying Anne, once it was clear that Anne's star was no longer rising but plummeting rapidly, Carew was supposedly instrumental in working with Cromwell to be rid of her. So I have to wonder, considering the Carew connection, if Jane knew all along what Anne's fate was to be, though I'd like to grant her a wee bit of common decency in the matter & say perhaps not until it was too late. |
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