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The Tudors : Killing Queens
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 Message 1 of 14 in Discussion 
From: Greensleeves  (Original Message)Sent: 2/17/2008 6:09 PM
It's said that Anne Boleyn's remains were placed in an arrow chest (into which she fit neatly with her head tucked underneath her arm so to speak) & hauled off to St Peter ad Vincula because Henry had made absolutely no post-mortem arrangements for his soon to be late wife, not even the provision of a coffin.
 
Things that make you go hmmm.....
 
WHAT IF Henry never meant to kill her at all?  You don't make burial arrangements for someone who isn't going to be dead. 
 
Anne's execution was delayed for a day, reportedly waiting on the French swordsman to arrive from Calais.  Was it really meant to take place at all?  What was the deal on that rather than the axe? 
 
Some biographers & writers state Anne constantly looked over her shoulder as she was being taken to the scaffold.  Was she expecting a last-minute reprieve from Henry?  Had Cranmer or Cromwell led her to believe the king would show mercy before the sword flew?  Had Henry told them he was just going to torment her & then send her back to the queen's apartments in the Tower prepatory to being packed off to a nunnery or something?  The marriage had, after all, been annulled.  Mayhap Henry didn't mean for it to go so far?  If not, what could have changed his mind at the eleventh hour to go through with killing her?  Was he too busy looking for Jane Seymour's chin & then said ooops darn it I knew I forgot to do something today? LOL
 
Also, what do you think Catherine of Aragon would have thought of her one-time rival's spectacular demise, & of the husband who sent her to it?
 
And Catherine Howard....there's the tale of how she asked for the block to be brought to her rooms so she could practice laying her head on it & make a good queenly end of herself.  How come Anne got the French swordsman & Catherine got the axe?  Henry was besotted with Catherine; it's said she was deliberately removed from Hampton Court so that she could not appeal to the king & receive forgiveness for her transgressions.  Why wouldn't he want his child bride to have the same "mercy" he showed the "witch"?
 
And Anne of Cleves, who Catherine displaced, battened down in her bolthole at Richmond....what did she think of her replacement's fall from the king's grace, & of her ex for doing away with a 2nd wife in such a shocking manner?


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 Message 2 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamepainter1295233Sent: 2/19/2008 3:10 AM
From: Greensleeves  Sent: 2/17/2008 1:09 PM
And Anne of Cleves, who Catherine displaced, battened down in her bolthole at Richmond....what did she think of her replacement's fall from the king's grace, & of her ex for doing away with a 2nd wife in such a shocking manner?
 
 
I had no chance for wedded bliss
Because of this dim-witted miss
Who caught my spouse's roving eye
And so the dame deserved to die!
 
He loved me not! I was dismayed!
I brushed my mane, but wasn't laid!
"How now, my love?" I wept, "What's wrong?
Do you not like my bridle thong?"
 
"As soon as me and you were wed,
This rosy beauty turned my head
And I looked  back and at stared at YOU,
And thought, "This marriage will not do!
 
I stomped my hooves! I shook my mane!
I neighed, "I want MY turn to rein!
But Hank said, "Anne, she turns me on,
I won't be happy till you're gone.
 
Go back to pasture! Off with you,
Or I will use your feet for glue!
We must divorce or else you die,
Go whinny at some other guy!"
 
And so I left and hung my head
And mused, "I hope she ends up dead."
And thus devised a witty plan
And trotted off to find a man.
 
I spied Culpepper in the hay
Exhausted from a maiden's lay,
And said, "I got the broad for you!"
He mounted me and off we flew.
 
I dropped him off at Henry's place
And so began the fall from grace.
He hid himself in Cathy's bed
But Hank found out, then they were dead.
 
Revenge was sweet! I liked it lots,
I hatched one of the Tudor plots!
Remember when this tail you share,
You heard it from the Flanders Mare.
 
pony
 
 
 

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 Message 3 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamepainter1295233Sent: 2/19/2008 4:54 AM
From: Greensleeves   Sent: 2/17/2008 1:09 PM
What do you think Catherine of Aragon would have thought of her one-time rival's spectacular demise, & of the husband who sent her to it?
 
"So sad", is what I'd think, "A shame,
To lose her head without a blame.
She never really was a whore
With men behind her chamber door.
 
Our lots were very much the same
When we took Henry Tudor's name,
And shared the fate to have no joy
When we could not produce a boy.
 
She had a daughter, just like me
And couldn't help her sorry plea;
Twas not her fault she had no son
Because her husband wanted one.
 
I'd pray for her, get on my knees.
This was a man you couldn't please.
This poor girl never had a chance,
A victim of sad cirumstance.
 
 
"HEY WAIT A MINUTE! THAT'S A LIE!
YOU GOT MAD WHEN I STOLE YOUR GUY!
YOU CALLED ME NAMES LIKE WITCH AND SLUT
AND HOPED SOMEONE WOULD KICK MY BUTT!"
 
"Now calm down, Anne! That isn't nice!
A sweet "Hail Cathy" should suffice!
Join me in prayer and quiet thought
And let's forget we ever fought!
 
"HECK NO!! I GOT NO BRAINS AT ALL
AND IT'S YOUR FAULT THEY TOOK A FALL!
IF YOU HAD GIVEN HANK HIS HEIR
I'D HAVE MY HEAD OF RAVEN HAIR!"
 
"I give up Annie! Have your way!
Now shut up and I'll have my say!
I wish you didn't lose your head,
But got burned at the stake instead!"
 
never mind.....
 
 

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 Message 4 of 14 in Discussion 
From: GreensleevesSent: 2/19/2008 7:02 AM
PMSL HA HA HA HA
 
Especially over the A of C one LOL
 
"How now, my love?" I wept, "What's wrong?
Do you not like my bridle thong?"

Reply
 Message 5 of 14 in Discussion 
From: ForeverAmberSent: 10/8/2008 2:57 AM
I don't know how I missed this....Painter slays me ROFL
 
You know, even though C of A wasn't the least bit fond of AB, I think she would've been appalled at the lengths to which her precious husband had gone & also glad he didn't send a French swordsman in her direction.  If C of A had lived long enough to see the dissolution of the monasteries & what happened to Catholicism in England because she refused to step aside for a more fecund queen, she might have rethought that whole mortal sin suicide thing.
 
I think A of C sweated right till Henry died & prayed it wouldn't be her ticking him off next.  The last 15 years of Henry's reign were soaked in blood, & one never knew who was going to be next.  Look at the slim "evidence" he had on Sir Nicholas Carew, one of his best friends.  Carew had the stupidity to open his mouth & insert his foot after Exeter's arrest, & Henry was happy to have him join his cousin in the Tower simply for saying he might be wrong about Exeter.

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 Message 6 of 14 in Discussion 
From: ForeverAmberSent: 10/8/2008 3:11 AM
I completely neglected the 1st bit....intriguing indeed how Henry's "Rose Without a Thorn" got a common axe while "The Witch" was privileged enough for a French swordsman.  I'm wondering if that may have something to do with the old lore that Evil can only be killed with silver.  Though I suppose it's not the best metal for a nice sharp sword & alas I don't know a thing about it except that Toledo steel seemed to be highly prized as a good sword material.

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 Message 7 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMuckypup_1981Sent: 10/8/2008 9:20 PM
I think Henry knew that Anne was innocent, but believed she had to die, for the sake of the country.  He was paranoid that his sonless state would lead to civil war, so he probably justified Anne's execution by telling himself it was for the greater good. He was, of course, angry with her, as he felt she had made fool of him by not coming up with the goods after all her promises.  He no longer loved her, but I don't think he wanted her to suffer unduly, just to be out of the way, hence the "merciful" sword.  Catherine Howard, on the other hand, had devastated him.  He was deeply in love with her, and believed she felt the same way.  She broke his heart and totally humiliated him; the axe was his revenge on her.  He was also a smidge more tetchy by that time.  
 
Maybe Catherine should think herself lucky she didn't suffer the same fate as Cromwell, for whom's execution Henry intentionally chose an inexperienced teenage executioner, who made a right mess of it.
 
As for Anne of Cleves, I read that she actually convinced herself that Henry was going to take her back after Catherine's fall, and was disappointed when she realised this was not the case.  What was she thinking?  "Yes, OK, he had two of his wives heads chopped off, but he's just misunderstood, really."

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 Message 12 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamepainter1295233Sent: 10/16/2008 4:31 AM
From: Muckypup_1981 Sent: 10/8/2008 4:20 PM
I think Henry knew that Anne was innocent, but believed she had to die, for the sake of the country.
You got that right! The broad was duped!
She had no boy and I got pooped,
So I devised a lovely plan
To prove she boned another man.

I got my cronies and I said,
"I want that dreadful woman dead
She lied and said we'd have a son
But it's too late and now there's none.

So find some men and we will say,
'They rolled with her in beds of hay!'
And I don't care if it's not true,
But proving it is up to you!

Put Smeaton in the dungeon room
And torture him! He'll seal their doom!
That guy's a wussy! He'll confess;
If you make sure his hair's a mess!

Get Brereton! Norris! Rochford, too!
They’re bound to run away from you,
So try them quick without delay!
I want another wedding day!

That Seymour girl who has no chin
Is fertile, so she’ll give me kin.
As soon as Anne Boleyn is dead
I’m making sure that we get wed�?BR>

Poor thing was doomed right from the start,
She had my son, then fell apart!
Her innards failed and took a leak
And then she croaked within a week.

Fie fie! I ended up alone
Without a spouse to love and bone
And so I said, “Find me a bride
Who has some stonger parts inside!�?BR>
I ended up with Anne of Cleves
Who proved to be the worst of peeves.
I liked her not! She wasn’t fine,
I said to her, “Die or resign!�?BR>
We got divorced real quick so I
Could give the Thornless Rose a try.
I thought the girl was pretty hot
Alas, she thought that I was not!

She pricked me bad when she got laid,
And so I says, “A spade’s a spade!�?BR>I got real mad! It made me sick,
And had her head cut off real quick

By this time, I was really old,
My leg was green and full of mold,
And when the end was not afar,
I made a queen of Kathy Parr.

I killed her not! She did survive,
Then wed when I was not alive
And proved to be just like my Jane
Who couldn’t take a labor pain.




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 Message 13 of 14 in Discussion 
From: GreensleevesSent: 10/19/2008 9:00 AM
Poor thing was doomed right from the start,
She had my son, then fell apart!
Her innards failed and took a leak
And then she croaked within a week.

 
 

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 Message 14 of 14 in Discussion 
From: ForeverAmberSent: 10/25/2008 4:07 PM

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