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God and Jesus : Like unto Moses
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 Message 1 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551  (Original Message)Sent: 10/26/2007 2:49 PM

~~ Like unto Moses ~~

Ex 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Ex 7:2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.

De 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

De 18:16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. De 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

De 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

De 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

We have People in this land who are so arrogant and haughty and self-willed, that they actually look into Ex 7:1, and outright call God a lie. Then those same people call me proud and arrogant, just because I teach what God gives me. When I say that God speaks to me and teaches me, they call that proud and arrogant. But did not Paul say the very same thing? Of course he did. He let the people know that his teaching was not of man, but of God. I do the same thing. And I will continue to do so, as long as God lets me live.

The knowledge I have was not taught to me by man. God taught me. I say only what God tells me to say. If everyone had stayed with this kind of attitude, all these false doctrines would not have filled the earth. Why should it be considered proud and arrogant, to declare the truth, so others will know and understand? I do not see that as proud. It is giving the glory to God, where it rightly belongs. I posted that Scripture, in Ex.7:1, on another web site yesterday. A person in that group actually said this could not be true, that God did not make Moses to be a god to Pharaoh. Actually called the Word of God a lie, because he could not understand it!

But see, that the false teaching of Jesus being God, has blinded his eyes. He could not accept the fact that Jesus was a man, whom God had made to be God to us. But look at the above two Scriptures. In Exodus 7, God told Moses, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet, and you shall speak all that I command you. Then in De 18, God told Moses, I will raise them up a Prophet like unto you. He told both men they would speak all that I shall command him.

So see, these two references, together, prove that Jesus Christ was a human man, just like Moses. He was from among them. He came from those Israelites. He was one of them in every way. He was not God. He was a man. He was a Prophet. God did not say, I will raise them up a god, now did he? No. He said I will raise them up a Prophet, like unto you, Moses. See, God had made Moses to be a god to Pharaoh. I will not dare to call God a lie in this matter, just because some may not understand it. I do understand it. It is not hard to see if you know the truth.

God raised up a man, from among those Israelites, a son of David and Abraham, to be a god to this world. John the Baptist was his prophet, just as Aaron was a prophet to Moses. See, it is exactly the same way, as God said it would be…like unto you. I know I have written many messages on this subject. But it is necessary to try to help some of you come into the true light of God’s Word. Maybe placing these two Scriptures together, this way, will help someone see this truth. I hope so. Now I know the blind leaders say that this is saying that this is another god or two different gods. But no. It is the very same God, for they were both of God’s kingdom. God set it this way. God can do as he pleases. God was still the head over both Moses and Jesus. They were in total agreement, or ONE.

I truly cannot understand how someone could call me proud and arrogant just because I teach the truth which God gave me…just because I love people enough to spend so much of my time trying to help them see the truth which has taken me most of my lifetime studying to try to learn. If I claimed to have all this knowledge of my own accord, then, yes, that would be proud and haughty. But I do not say that. I give God all the glory for teaching me. I did not teach myself. I could not have taught myself things which I never heard of anyone.

All things in the NT have to have a type, or second witness, in the OT. This is the perfect type and proving that God can and did make a human man to be God to us. Now I am sure this is why the man and most others flat reject this truth that God made Moses a god to Pharaoh. I am quite sure that Pharaoh never worshipped this god, Moses. But just the same, Moses had full power and control over Pharaoh and his entire kingdom. What Moses told them happened. When Moses spoke for flies, flies filled Egypt. When Moses spoke for lice, lice filled Egypt. When Moses told Pharaoh, You shall see my face no more, then God sent the death angel and you know what followed. Then Moses left Egypt, as he had said he would. He brought judgment upon Pharaoh and his entire kingdom. Jesus Christ will do the very same thing to this evil and unbelieving and disobedient kingdom of Earth. You may not worship Jesus, but he is still God over you.

People do not wish to believe that Jesus was a human man, and not God. But see that this proves he was a man, just as Moses was a man. This other type or witness proves it. God also had an OT virgin born son, proving that Jesus was a virgin born human son. Now they cannot accept these truths, for it crosses all church doctrine. All churches today, teach that Jesus was God in flesh. No Scripture teaches this. Yet they cling to the doctrine of men instead of seeking and accepting the truth of God’s word. But God said Jesus will be a prophet like unto Moses. If God said that, it is true and I fully believe it. God said for everyone, angels and us, to worship HIS SON. If you must think that Jesus is actually God, in order to worship him, you are wrong and disobeying God and over-riding God’s authority to set his son up as God.

No wonder God said this last church is blind and naked and wretched and don’t know it! They defy everything God said. It is the blind leading the blind, and that is how they all want it. I say that the KJV is the correct Word of God, for English speaking people today, and not all those revisions, which men have brought up. Now a son of Satan grabs this statement and tells others that I am saying there was no pure word of God before the KJV. But see, I have never said that or thought it. I say that God has always had a pure Word and that he kept His Word pure and gave it to us as such. But that is how they distort every truth. They take it out of what is actually meant and make up lies to deceive others with and to keep them from listening to a true teacher of God. Satan does not want any of you to come out of his darkness into God’s light.

But God is dividing the darkness from the Light. Now if you reject it and choose to walk on in the darkness, know that you will stumble and fall of into hell fire. Men love darkness rather than light, because their deeds are evil.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

1pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

There. Both main Apostles blessed the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ. I say AMEN.

By: Jo Smith ~~ Oct. 26, 2007



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Reply
 Message 2 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameYESHUWAHsSent: 11/16/2007 2:10 PM
We have People in this land who are so arrogant and haughty and self-willed, that they actually look into Ex 7:1, and outright call God a lie. Then those same people call me proud and arrogant, just because I teach what God gives me. When I say that God speaks to me and teaches me, they call that proud and arrogant. But did not Paul say the very same thing? Of course he did. He let the people know that his teaching was not of man, but of God. I do the same thing. And I will continue to do so, as long as God lets me live.
 
Do you accept the same standard as Paul, though?
AC 17:10 As soon as it was night, the brothers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

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 Message 3 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 11/16/2007 8:42 PM
Certainly, I do.  I do not accept anything unless it is solidly proven by Scripture.  I have studied it enough that I know when I hear a thing, if it is true or not.  It is written in my heart.  I have hidden the Word of God in my heart so I might not sin against him.
 
I love His Word and it is the joy of my life.  I am not under bondage of Law.  I am under the law of the Spirit of LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS.
 
He has delivered me from all bondage.  I was never under the bondage of the OT Law.  Never have believed I needed to be under law.

Reply
 Message 4 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameShachar24Sent: 11/18/2007 7:48 AM
Freeborn: He let the people know that his teaching was not of man, but of God.
I thought Paul said he got all his doctrine from Yeshuwa/Jesus?

Reply
 Message 5 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameYESHUWAHsSent: 11/18/2007 2:46 PM
 
Certainly, I do.  I do not accept anything unless it is solidly proven by Scripture.  I have studied it enough that I know when I hear a thing, if it is true or not.  It is written in my heart. 
 
Are you of Israel, then?
 
I have hidden the Word of God in my heart so I might not sin against him. I love His Word and it is the joy of my life. 
 
I do not think this is true, in view of your statements below.
 
I am not under bondage of Law.  I am under the law of the Spirit of LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS.
 
I believe you are under the bondage of the 'law,' however.
 
He has delivered me from all bondage.  I was never under the bondage of the OT Law.  Never have believed I needed to be under law.
 
What of Paul's words?
GAL 3:21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
 
You deny the 'law,' but Paul says it is necessary for salvation. If you have never placed yourself under the 'supervision of the law,' then you do not recognize sin, because sin is breaking the 'law,' as John tells us.
1JN 3:4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

Reply
 Message 6 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 11/19/2007 3:41 PM
Jesus spoke only God's Word, so what Jesus said is God's word.  Jesus is our God, placed as such by God himself. Heb. one.
 
If you do not worship Jesus as your God, you will have no salvation.  God said we cannot come to him EXCEPT through Jesus.  Jesus is our head, and you cannot be saved apart from Jesus being your God.
 
After we come to Christ we are no longer under the law.  So by your own statements, you have not come to christ yet.
 
<NOBR>Ro 5:13</NOBR> (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Reply
 Message 7 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameShachar24Sent: 11/19/2007 7:36 PM

# 6: Jesus spoke only God's Word, so what Jesus said is God's word. Jesus is our God, placed as such by God himself. Heb. one.

If you meant "Jesus only spoke ElShaddai's word, so what Jesus said is, ElShaddai's word. Jesus is our human elohiym, raised up for this purpose by 'Adonai himself.' I agree.

However I do not as the word is translated today, Worship Messiah. Where is the commandment from ElShaddai that says to worship his Shelaich/Representative? Did the Hebrew worship Moses.......not on your life, they continued to serve YHVH/YHWH. ElShaddai's personal Shelaich/Representative is not ElShaddai himself. We are commanded to emulate this unique man, not worship him.

If words can be translated for their true meaning, then please do so. Otherwise I understand them in the light of which they are normally meant by Christians (their Greek to English transliterations). And according to the RCC and modern Protestant doctrines, you are not a Christian. Christians believe Jesus is ElShaddai incarnated in the flesh. If you do not believe this, you cannot call yourself a Christian. Nor can I. I lean toward the same Doctrine Paul claimed he was in Acts 24:14, of course not as is transliterated into English or Kione Greek. (KJV) But this I confess unto thee, that after "The Way" which they call [a] Sect, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Any good Lexicon will agree with the above translation, not certain about Strong's, for I don't consider it a very good lexicon for true deffinitions of Greek or Hebrew words.

You claim you desire to "reason" with others, then turn around and claim they know nothing. This is not reasoning! This is attempted domination. Domination is not reasoning, and only one that is dominate Almighty Elohiym himself.

So, if you desire to reason as equals, then I would be most happy to comply.

Are you a teacher of reighteouness, or a tyrant, set to demean all others who question your self-proclaimed doctrine?

Is your doctrine the only true one? Seems I have read this before, claims made by others who only wish is to dominate others, by their true or false knowledge. No person, not even you have all the answers, so please truly reason/discuss. Don't attempt domination on me, for I will not be dominated by a human other than Yeshua/Jesus.

I have been amazed at how many beliefs you have that are very similar to my own (their only problem is in their translation/transliteration, which I am unsure of, I am totally blind because of this. When you say Jesus is God, are you saying ElShaddai appointed or as most Christians claim, "true Almighty of true Almighty")?

Many others that drift into some doctrines that are not in my knowledgebase. I do not agree with the mixing of Paganism, Gnosticism, or Mysticism into the true Doctrine of ElShaddai's inspired word. And this is mostly where we disagree. Plus the translation and transliteration of many words in our present day Canons.

As far as I am concerned we can quit discussing, or we can continue as equals.


Reply
 Message 8 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 11/20/2007 2:49 AM
From: <NOBR>MSN NicknameShachar24</NOBR> Sent: 11/19/2007 2:36 PM

# 6: Jesus spoke only God's Word, so what Jesus said is God's word. Jesus is our God, placed as such by God himself. Heb. one.

If you meant "Jesus only spoke ElShaddai's word, so what Jesus said is, ElShaddai's word. Jesus is our human elohiym, raised up for this purpose by 'Adonai himself.' I agree.

However I do not as the word is translated today, Worship Messiah. Where is the commandment from ElShaddai that says to worship his Shelaich/Representative? Did the Hebrew worship Moses.......not on your life, they continued to serve YHVH/YHWH. ElShaddai's personal Shelaich/Representative is not ElShaddai himself. We are commanded to emulate this unique man, not worship him.

********

Me:  Here is the Scripture: (This is after Jesus ascended to heaven, and God set Jesus on his own throne, to rule there as God to this earth)...

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

 


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 Message 9 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 11/20/2007 2:53 AM
If words can be translated for their true meaning, then please do so. Otherwise I understand them in the light of which they are normally meant by Christians (their Greek to English transliterations). And according to the RCC and modern Protestant doctrines, you are not a Christian. Christians believe Jesus is ElShaddai incarnated in the flesh. If you do not believe this, you cannot call yourself a Christian. Nor can I. I lean toward the same Doctrine Paul claimed he was in Acts 24:14, of course not as is transliterated into English or Kione Greek. (KJV) But this I confess unto thee, that after "The Way" which they call [a] Sect, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Any good Lexicon will agree with the above translation, not certain about Strong's, for I don't consider it a very good lexicon for true deffinitions of Greek or Hebrew words.
 
*******
Me:  I do not believe that Jesus was God incarnated.  True Christains did not believe this.  It is not taught in Scripture.  So those who teach this, and 'claim' to be Christains, are not really Christians.  The Word of God does not teach such a thing, as God incarnate.  It is truly a lie of RCC.
 
But since Paul was serving God according to that old law system, and believing it,  please explain why he had to be changed, and come into the NT Salvation, of worshipping God's Son?
 
See, Paul completely denounced that way AFTER Christ met him and revealed the real truth to him.  That was BEFORE he came to Christ and knew the truth.  That is where you are right now...deceived by that idolatrous system of law covenant.

Reply
 Message 10 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 11/20/2007 3:00 AM
Shachar,  How is it that you claim I am not discussing as equals?  or trying to dominate over you?  You are saying just as much as I am.  I am only answering the things you bring up, as you answer the things I bring up.  Where do you see any difference?
 
My doctrine is not mine, but that of God.  What I teach, I know that it is true, because it is given to me by God and comes directly from the Holy Scripture.
 
I have never said that I have it all.  I am falsly accused of this, but I have never stated it.  I do say with full assurance, that what I do teach is FULLY TRUTH.
 
It cannot be proven wrong or condemned.  I am sure.
 
Now, I say that Jesus was not God.  He was born a man.  He was set up as God by God.  God calls Jesus God, and himself God to Jesus in Hebrews one.
 
Before His resurrection, Jesus was not God.  He was a man, who obeyed God in all things.  He is one with God now.  That is their goal for all of us.  God is still the God and Father of Jesus.  He was not a physical father as most church folks  believe.  Jesus was not part man and part God, or as the false churches claim  fully man and fully God.
 
That is simply not possible or taught in Scripture.

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 Message 11 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameAxs2-381Sent: 11/20/2007 11:00 AM
Nu 23:19 - God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

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 Message 12 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameShachar24Sent: 11/20/2007 11:51 PM

God and Jesus: Like unto Moses

Exodus 7:1 (KJV) And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Exodus 21:6 (KJV) Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

Exodus 22:8-9 (KJV) If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges, to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour's goods. [9] For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.

Psalm 82:1 (KJV) A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Psalm 82:6 (KJV) I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Each of these above are describing men's role in God's plan, they are called elohiym in it's plural sense, they consist of judges, rulers, angels, gods.

The translater's of the verse quoting Yeshua/Jesus in John 10:34-35 very plainly shows their Graeco-Roman/English bias , "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;" he is very plainly speaking in the third person here, he did not seperate himself from his Jewishness, but was very scarcastic towards these other Jewish men. Hebraic reasoning must be used to understand this verse, not Graeco-Roman or English. By incorporating the use of a good OT Lexicon other people can understand what Yeshua/Jesus was saying, but not using Western reasoning abilities. All Jewish I know fully understand this verse. When the word god is used, it always refers to men, or women, not to the most High God. The Graeco-Romans Greek does not contain this concept, and called all gods, goddesses, Gods...kurios. However in the above verse, they are all translated as Theh'-os. See what I mean by translation bias?

Not so in Hebraic thought and language. Elohiym when referring to humans is always plural; rulers, judges, angels, gods, however when referring to our one ElShaddai (Almighty God) it is considered plural entensive - singular meaning; a. god, godess b. godlike one c. works or special possessions of God d. the (true) God e. God.

Elohiym is plural when is used in reference to mankind, those whom the most High appointed, it not only includes judges, rulers, kings, prophets, but also his personal Sheliachs/Representatives of which Yeshua/Jesus was one, so was Mosheh (Moses), and many other Prophets. And it is understood by Jewish the word LORD is used, the translaters removed YHVH and replaced it with LORD. Creating a false impression, and this impression is used in the NT. They removed the Jewish National name YHVH/YHWH for Supreme Elohiym, and replaced it with their own language's transliteration as just another of their common Gods. To the devote Jewish this one Elohiym chose them. In turn they gave him a name YHVH/YHWH. The removal of his Jewish name is similar as the USofA removing all Biblical literature from public places, especially those incorporated as freezes in and built within the structure Government buildings.

Now you should more understand the direct insult the Greeks and Roman accomplished by removing the Hebrew Supreme Elohiym from Jewish Scripture.


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 Message 13 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameShachar24Sent: 11/20/2007 11:57 PM

#11:

Nu 23:19 - God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Totall agree with the above Axs2 !!! It is true Scripture


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 Message 14 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameShachar24Sent: 11/21/2007 12:00 AM

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Whoever wrote or added to Hebrews did not remember or even know that Jesus said, "I can do nothing of my own self..." I believe Jesus first. Nor did they know all Jesus' power came from G-d's Presence within him. Whoever it was that write or translated this verse did not have this basic Hebraic  understanding.


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 Message 15 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 11/21/2007 1:32 AM
Shachar, I think you are the one who does not understand.  Jesus did say that he did nothing of his own accord.  But the one thing he did, according to the will of his Father, was to purge our sins himself.
 
God did not die on  that cross.  Jesus, a human man died for us.
But because of his sinless and perfect life, and full obedience to God, his Father,  God then gave Jesus the exclusive and sole place there on the very throne of God to rule this world as God.
 
You are in rebellion to God by rejecting His decree, that now Jesus is God to this world and even the angels of God are commanded to WORSHIP JESUS.
 
God's own decree is that no one can come to God EXCEPT THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.  So seems to me, you are again in total rebellion to the true and living God.
 
You refuse God's own choice of  how we are to live and come to him.  Do you think that you know more than God knows?  You certainly are setting yourself up there, same as Adam did.
 
You will also fall, as did Adam.  No one can rebel against God and live.  You do not know what you think you know.
 
and the reason the translators brought up English words, is because that is what they were doing......translating the Word into English for English speaking people.  Why do you hate this so much?  What is your gripe?  I happen to know that LORD means the same as all the OT names for GOD.
 
I also happen to know,  I (learned it studying the KJV),  that Lord refers to Jesus, the Son of God.  wonder why you have not learned this simple thing?  and why would you think those Jews knew any truth?  They full well rejected all the truth of God, misinterpreting everything Jesus said,  and demanding to crucify him.
 
and yet you stake your everything on 'their' knowledge.  foolish.

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