• In Matthew 28:19 it says, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" (KJV)
• In 2 Corinthians 13:14, Paul writes, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen" (KJV)

If these two verses do not indicate the allusion to a three person in one god, then I don't know what does. It's obvious in these two verses, God is the Father, God is the Son (the Word of God), God is the Spirit. Three in one. Do you not see this?

Jesus was human and God, in the flesh.

• John 1:1-4, 14 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men." "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (KJV)

Jesus is the great God, Savior, God over all, as LORD (YHWH - God's personal name), God's equal, creator of all, is above all, God with us.  

• John 8:58 - "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM." --- Exodus 3:14 - "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." (KJV) 
• Titus 2:13, - "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;" (KJV)
• Romans 9:5 - "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." (KJV)
• 1 Corinthians 1:2 - "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:" (KJV)
• Philippians 2:5, 6 - "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" (KJV)
• Colossians 1:12-16 "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:" (KJV) 
• John 3:31 - "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all." (KJV)
• Matthew 1:23 - "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." (KJV)

There are many more verses that support the fact that Jesus is God, the spoken Word of God in human flesh (I just picked a few).

Here are 2 examples of the trinity at work.

• Matthew 3:16-17 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (KJV)
• 1 John 5:6, 7 - "This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (KJV)

Still believe that the Bible is wrong?

Yes I read your message throughly.  In fact I know the trinity doctrine fully.  I was raised in it.  I also know the Jesus-only doctrine fully.  I once believed in that.  But one Day God spoke to me and told me different.  Since then he has opened the Scriptures up so clearly to me.

Now let me tell you one thing, you need to learn.....the Scripture does not 'allude' to anything.  Nor does it insinuate it either.  The Scripture is purely the Word of God, which he commands us NOT TO ADD ONE WORD OR TAKE AWAY ONE WORD ....ELSE HE FINDS US A LIAR AND WILL CUT YOU OFF.

It is dangerous stuff to add thoughts to God's Word.  I have NEVER AT ANY TIME SAID I DO NOT BELIEVE THE SCRIPTURES.  I BELIEVE IT MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE.  .....for I do not add false doctrine to it.....I accept it only as it says it......I know of no other doctrine which can do this.  especially that false trinity doctrine.

Now you seem to think that I deny the Father [God],,,,and his Son, Jesus  or the Holy Ghost.  That is FAR from true.  But they are NOT A TRINITY OF GODS.  They are not three persons in one god.  this is false.  It is not taught in the Word.

Jesus is NOT the Word.  Jesus is NOT GOD.  Jesus is a human man.  He was made in all points like unto us.  Only after the resurrection was he ever in the image of God.

The Scripture does not say TRINITY,  so you need to start looking for another answer to the Word.  If God were a trinity, God would say so.  How can you teach this WITHOUT ADDING TO HIS WORD?

Do you realize that you are saying God was BORN........birthed by a woman......?  then God died???killed by man???  No, this is certainly not taught in the Word of God.

God is an entire kingdom of beings.  all spirit......this is the Father.

Jesus the Son, is a human being.  He is the mediator between GOD AND US. 

If you will stay here and study with me,  you will find the truth of all this.....but only if you are willing to allow God to show you something.  If you insist on holding to that false Catholic doctrine, you will miss God.

Jo

• 1 Corinthians 8:6 - "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." (KJV)
• See? There is only one Lord, Jesus the Christ, "by whom are all things." 
• Ephesians 3:9 - "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:" (KJV)
• Again, this verse says that Jesus "created all things."
• Colossians 1:12-17 "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." (KJV) 
• And again! It is clear that "all things were created by him," that is, Jesus the "Son." The "Son" is Jesus "who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature."
• Hebrews 1:2, 10 - "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:" (KJV)
• And here again! Jesus, the Son of God, is "appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds!" Do you not see this? Jesus is creator of all things!
• Revelation 3:14 - "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;" (KJV) Again, Jesus is the "beginning of the creation of God." Jesus is God, the first Words spoken from the breath of God that spoke the world into existance (Genesis 1:1-3). 

What do all of these verses say? Have I changed any words from the KJV? They all say that Jesus:

• is the creator of all things
• created all things are by him
• made the worlds
• is appointed heir of all things

Am I adding to what God's Word says? No, I'm simply repeating it, so you will get it.

Therefore, if the error-free truth of God's Word says plainly and clearly that Jesus is the creator of ALL things, then if the Bible says that God created ALL things, would you be wise enough to hear and understand that Jesus is God, in the form of a man?

• Genesis 1:1 - "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (KJV)
• Genesis 5:1 - "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;" (KJV)
• Exodus 20:11 - "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." (KJV)
• 2 Kings 19:15 - "And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth." (KJV)
• 1 Chronicles 16:26 - "For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens." (KJV) 
• Nehemiah 9:6 - "Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee." (KJV)
• Psalm 96:5 - "For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the LORD made the heavens." (KJV)
• Proverbs 3:19 - "The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens." (KJV)
• Ecclesiastes 3:11 - "He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end." (KJV)

There are many, many more verses in the Old Testament that explain and claim that God created all things. There are many more verses in the New Testament that state that Jesus created all things.

Is this a lie? Is the Bible a giant contradiction of the facts? How can the OT say that God is the creator of all thing and the NT say that Jesus is the creator of all things?

The only logical and revealing humanly possible plain and clear conclusion is.......that Jesus is God! Just as the inerrant Scriptures say. Did I add to them or take away? No, the Bible says plainly, without a doubt, that Jesus is God!

Not one verse you gave said that Jesus created anything or all things.  No not one.  Now I know you have been led to see it this way.  But when you come into a fuller realization of the TRUTH, you can see that it is NOT saying that Jesus is God or that he created all things.

I will say you gave a good message, so far as your understanding goes.  So just listen a bit.  I perceive that you are truly into the Word of God.  So I hope you can allow the Spirit to open these things up to you.  I    believe that you are sincere with God.  I see a good spirit in you.

Now to explain what it truly said:

It said that God created all things.  Didn't it say that?  Yes.  But.....it said BY Jesus Christ.  It did NOT EVER say that Jesus created.  It said that God CREATED....BY....JESUS.  Jesus was the PATTERN which God used to create his world by.

That is the truth of all this.  God made a Holy Word by the PATTERN of Jesus Christ.  ....and Jesus Christ is the RESURRECTED GLORIFIED SON OF GOD.....NOT THE FLESH MAN BORN TO MARY.

If you will study the many messages in this group which I have written on this subject it will help you get to the truth. 

<NOBR>Heb 8:5</NOBR>	Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the PATTERN showed to thee in the mount.
<NOBR>Heb 9:23</NOBR>	It was therefore necessary that the PATTERNS of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Moses was told to make all things by a PATTERN which God had showed him.  He went EXACTLY by that pattern.  The Word proves that Moses made it all exactly by the PATTERN which God showed him.

Now this is exactly what God  went by  when HE created all things.....he went by the PATTERN of His Holy son, Jesus Christ.

<NOBR>Ro 8:29</NOBR>

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

We are destined to become conformed to the image of His Son.  By this Holy glorified son, God is making a whole new world into the image of or by Jesus.

but when Jesus was on earth he was in the image of SINFUL MAN.  do you think we are in the image of God right now?  No of course not.  That comes at the resurrection.

<NOBR>Ro 8:3</NOBR>

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

God sent his son here in the likeness of sinful or fallen man to redeem us back to God.  God is making all things after the pattern or image of his RESURRECTED Son.

Each verse you gave is understood this same way.  None of them say that Jesus is God.  Not one of the Say that Jesus created.

Go back and carefully read them and you will see.

Joie,

Thank you for pointing out what I was hoping you would see. I wanted you to understand that Jesus was the Word of God and you made my point for me. Let me explain. For example:

• 1 Corinthians 8:6 - "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him." (KJV)

This verse says that "there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things." So, we understand and agree that there is only one God, the Father, and He created the universe and all things, right?

OK, this verse also says that there is "one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things." So, we can agree that there is only one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, right?

If we agree on that, then we must sgree that this Scripture does not tell lies, right?

Read John 1:1-3, 14 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (KJV)

See? Jesus is the Word and "by him," all things were made. The Word is a "him." This is NOT referring to God, the Father but to the "Word," who "was made flesh." John says that we [disciples] "beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father."

Jesus is the spoken Word of God and when the Holy Spirit concieved in her a son, the one who is called Jesus, is when the Word "was made flesh." For example;

• 1 John 5:7 - "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (KJV)
• Revelation 19:13 - "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."

I'm sorry to disappont you Joie.

Jesus IS the Word of God. The Bible does not lie and these verse clearly state the truth which cannot be denied.

Clearly, when one looks at the whole context throughout the Bible concerning the "trinity" (for lack of a better definition), the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are equal in spirit but have different roles throughout the Bible and they always work together and never independent of each other.

More examples of the preexistance of Christ (pre-flesh) and in unity of the Father and the Son:

• John 10:30 - "I and my Father are one." (KJV)
• Genesis 1:26 - "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." (KJV)
• John 6:62 - "What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?" (KJV)
• John 8:56-58 - "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." (KJV)
• John 17:5 - "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." (KJV)
• Romans 11:36 - "For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen." (KJV)
• Philippians 2:5-7 - "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:" (KJV)
• Colossians 1:16-18 - "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." (KJV)
• Revelation 4:11 - "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." (KJV)
• Hebrews 13:8 - "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."
• 1 Peter 1:19-20 - "But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you," (KJV)

Joie, shall I go on? These verses [and others not listed] all suggest, imply, insinuate, allude, say, state, list, claim and declare that Jesus is the beginning and the end, the Alpha and the Omega, the Word of God, the lamb of God, the Messiah, the Christ, the Son of Man, and a hundred more or so names, appellations and titles. I can list ALL of them if you wish. 

Jesus is the spoken Word of God that has power to create all things through and by him, who, was made in the flesh when Mary concieved by the Holy Spirit of God. Jesus, the man-God, was in the beginning with God before he was in the flesh as the Word of God.    

Can you see this now?

Now where was any GLORY in the human man, Jesus?  Isaiah tells us that when we see him, there is no BEAUTY that we should desire him.  Glory and Beauty mean the same thing.  There was NO BEAUTY OR GLORY UNTIL THAT RESURRECTION.

Why do none of you ever read Romans 1:3&4?  It shows when this GLORY was beheld......at his resurrection,,,,,,when he came out of that grave,,,,from DEATH, (glory?)  unto the image and GLORY of God.  That is the first time any GLORY was ascribed to Jesus.

So the word was not made into a human man, as everyone supposes.  No, Jesus was NOT THE WORD OF GOD.......THE WORD WAS GIVEN TO HIM BY HIS FATHER.  HE GAVE US THE WORD, OR THE TRUTH.

God, being ONE, means the innumerable beings who make up that one God are all in a perfect harmony.  They are all ONE.  Jesus prayed that we ALL MAY BECOME ONE   ......AS.....THEY ....ARE ....ONE.

sso are we all just   1?  Better grow up some in your understandig.

Know why they say Mary gave birth to a 'divine' son?  Because the Catholic popes picked back up on their ancient idol trinity god, where the queen of heaven was said to have given birth to a divine son.  Mary, Jesus and God (as the fake church teaches it) is only that pagan trinity renamed.

Jesus was not divine.  He was and still is a human MAN.  There is ONE God and  ONE  mediator BETWEEN   GOD  AND MEN.......THE   ....MAN......CHRIST JESUS.........DID NOT SAY THE GOD, JESUS, NOW DID IT?

Even though graverobber has unjoined us here, I still wish to comment on the above for the sake of any others who might just happen to read this.  (I am sorry that I did not see this last post of his until a few days ago, after he had unjoined.)

[they can't take the pure word being shown to them ((almost no one can)) so they do not hang around long)

Now to show how people are just accepting twisted versions of the Scripture, read the above.....Jesus is the spoken word.....Now I ask you,  how in this world could Jesus, the son of Mary, be the spoken word of God?  People never even stop to think of what they are saying and believing.  The word of God clearly and plainly declares over and over that Jesus is and was a  MAN.

How is this world did Satan manage to deceive the whole world into believing that Jesus is or was God or the spoken word of God?

How could Mary have conceived the spoken Word of God and bore it?  Such utter foolishness.

This would make Mary be greater and more than the eternal God, since she would have 'birthed' the spoken word of God!  shew!  The catholics really pulled the wool over everyone's eyes!

Notice the other statement in this one little paragraph which are certainly NOT WRITTEN ANYWHERE IN GOD'S WORD:

Jesus the man-god.  Now I ask anyone where is THAT in the Word?  You know and I know that it is not written.....

was in the beginning with God before he was in the flesh as the word of God?   HUH?  where is such a thing in the Word....and he said this is clearly shown in the Scripture......I  ASK  WHERE AT?  Give me a verse.  someone.. anyone.

When a doctrine must bring in as many statements which are clearly NOT written in God's Word as this one does,  there is no way it could ever be true.  If all of this were true, surely there would be at least ONE SINGLE VERSE SAYING SOME OF IT>  don't you agree.  (wish I had seen this before he unjoined)