Thank you femfree.  We didn't give her the satisfaction of us disagreeing; believed the old adage of not fighting in front of kids.  But if she is criticized she immediately turns it around and accuses me of doing the same thing with an example, and doesn't think of her own behavior. The mention of vindictiveness really scares me though mainly because of the seriously disturbed son in law.

Screaminside - Your husband sounds a lot like mine, always forgive anything and everything.  He was raised in a permissive home and thinks "just give kids a lot of love and they will turn out ok".  He didn't take the ODD diagnosis seriously and look to where it could lead; nor did he bother to understand the "cluster B" traits that led to that diagnosis.  I have always, as a former teacher/ school counselor. thought that natural consequences occuring was a powerful tool.  For example if our daughter didn't have gas money I would say she shouldn't have bought those cds  and my husband would say here's some money for gas.

In the last 3 years as the natural consequences have become serious (and we had several incidents of him not getting the respect and adulation he felt he deserved) my husband has moved a bit in his attitude toward my way of thinking.  By age 18 we should have produced a reasonably responsible young adult, right?  Hah! We have taken steps to protect ourselves financially and otherwise...I hope.