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PHILOSOPHY : an esoterical thought
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 Message 1 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashgordGem  (Original Message)Sent: 9/4/2007 4:42 PM
a fractal universe?
 
what i go on to explain perhaps might seem abit far-fetched or out there,certainly difficult to fathom but the other week i took a consciousness test which was comprised of viewing sacred geometry paintings,1000 in 1 minute and was abit blown away!
it asked me after to close my eyes and then note what i saw.but i got distracted and by the time i closed my eyes i had already looked at something else.but when i went to bed 20 mins or so later i had loads of questions that i wanted to know the awnser to,things like how am i sure the world around me isnt a construct of my imagination and that its similar to the matrix!?
 
so i started questioning the origin of my conscious.and then all of a sudden i seem to have the awnser,or it certainly seemed like it! its like the awnser came out of the blue like what happens when you solve math.
 
i started to wonder about fractals ,there is infinite detail in them ,you can keep going forever.so i started to think what is smaller than the atom ect? i had thought this before and not come to any conclusions infact become quite stressed about it all and it made me feel unsettled,that was back when i was like 9 years old ,i tried to understand death and it freaked me out cos i couldnt fathom what lyes beyond death if i was conscious (dead) how would i know ect,all these questions suddenly appeared at around that time about limits and if there are limits and things are finite then what lyes outside/beyond those limits?
 
it spun me out and i was scared by not knowing any of the awnsers.over the last few years ive been a little more penetrating into this scary subject and i started thinking about it last night,i used my imagination and thought about something that had popped into my mind before and that was my reality is an infinite loop.but this suddenly made sense it was like a sort of physics had been born with my pyche!
it got me thinking also about mass consciousness as ive studied this before and saw there was proof of it availible online.

so my theory was that most of what we know of in the known universe is fractal based? so maybe earth is on a small scale within me ,within you,within our minds? is what im getting at.

so what is the purpose of life around me? why does other life exist? is it part of my mind,i asked myself? yes, i awnsered as i came up with the solution for that! they are the mass consciousness i have been thinking about before...

people have been trying to figure out mass consciousness and have thought that it works like a type of telepathy between beings on earth,so where do most people think this ability originates from? within the mind right? again its a loop or a fractal if we say the universe is inside us, do you see it?
 
ill explain, the abilty to tap into the collective consiouss is within all of our minds,why? because these are those that are living around us ,the collective consciousness is the inhabitants of earth. the people and beings around me are the collective minds.remember earth is within the universe which is within you .within you is the universe ,is earth ,is you.....the infinite fractal loop??

so maybe it is our duty on this planet to further our understanding on an earthly level of ourselves and each other ,by doing this we will connect with each other through our minds?
this is starting to become a theory i thought to myself? if i can awnser every question with the same explanation (that its a fractal loop) then i might have discovered something amazing.atleast for myself it offers re-assurance on my reality.so i asked myself more questions (im still doing that now) and seeing if this theory works on other levels and with other unsolved puzzles of the universe.
 
i carried on thinking.....
so space and time time they are fractals right? i figured that space can be explained as an infinite loop like i was talking about in terms of the physical/distance/size...ect 
there are theories that the universe is infinite or doughnut shaped,science has some evidence to prove this.
 
time also exists as a loop or as a fractal,this would go on to explain the big bang or the begining of it all....
the big bang is the begining of the cycle,the stage where the purpose of the loop begins:
 
my guess is ,we as humans and beings ,all creatures great and small are assimilating knowledge to further our consciouness'es,once we have acheived a certain level (similar to acheiving enlightenment) it starts the loop again, in other words ,we need to acheive a god level within ourselves and then we can create and start the process over again.the big bang.it takes many lifetimes ,many re-incarnations ,millions of assimilations of all of us ,every being.once we are at that level we can create,maybe it is within us to understand the science behind gases/chemistry as this created the big bang (scientists say) so if we learn how to do this essentially we can create the big bang,? thats a guess, i dont know on that one...
i only came up with these estorical thoughts on where we are going.maybe once we acheive god level with ourselves we have that ability to create,perhaps consciousness itself? it could then be born whereever the first forms of life in whatever form it is.this again is the loop, to begin and evolve /learn and then acheive a level that can again create.remember we stated the universe is inside you so you are creating something within your mind,expanding it to reach the next pinacle,to create another loop.
this supports the theory of re-incarnation as the purpose is to learn and experience everything universally possible,this is so to achieve the ability to create ,to create the loops themselves,this was acheived through many, many,experiences being assimilated and imprinted onto the collective unconscious to understand the universe and the laws of everything that exists.again, it relates to a loop.
 
astrology can also be intergrated into this theory to a certain extent.the theory of astrology is that events in the cosmos and in space reflect a change within us and our phyche,this makes sense if the universe is inside us as it merely a reflection ,like looking into a mirror but on another scale.
 
so the meaning of life is to create life,the awnser lyes within the question as it is a loop of the question itself!

im thinking really this theory is more along the lines of a fractal, fractal would suggest its partly loop based but not soley stuck within the confines of a loop. there is an atricle that talks about this here:
http://www.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw/NOF.HTM
it states that:
Bearing in mind that physically meaningful self-similarity does not require analogues on different scales to be exact replicas, but only to be similar in shape and motion, and related by consistent scaling relations
this means that what im talking about dosnt have to be a carbon copy so explains when you search deep into the human mind or brain you wont find an exact copy of the universe.
If cosmological self-similarity is verified, then it would seem more likely that additional scales underlie the atomic scale and encompass the galactic scale. According to the new paradigm the Big Bang does not involve the expansion of the entire universe, but rather just one metagalactic object with dimensions far exceeding our current observational limits. Also, a new fractal geometry of space-time-matter would appear to be called for.


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 Message 2 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 9/4/2007 6:21 PM
this supports the theory of re-incarnation as the purpose is to learn and experience everything universally possible,this is so to achieve the ability to create ,to create the loops themselves,this was acheived through many, many,experiences being assimilated and imprinted onto the collective unconscious to understand the universe and the laws of everything that exists.again, it relates to a loop.
 
 
I think that is so., along these lines.
 
Ralph never liked getting into or letting himself "go" as Edgar Cayce did as a matter of course each day....subconsciously.
Because he said the answers lie beyond the finite mind.,and it's (as you say) "scarey"......to go t here.
 
So his mind doesn't work like mine does.  For him, it's not a simple thing, but takes each & every step to then freak out a finite mind.
So in effect, he "avoids" doing it everyday......going into this framework or mindset.
 
In other words, YES I think you are on to the correct theory.,but the job for us as "aspects" of our soul, is to be in the here & now, and do what we came to do, learn our lessons, and take them back as a success story.,adding to the "Whole".
 
My understanding is that each of us has an obligation to add to the whole.
 
I don't know anything about nor read about Fractal theories; but David Bohm, a Quantum Psyicsist was one who seemed to go that route, taking ideas, into that area of his understanding:
 
From Wikipedia:
 
The holonomic model of the brain

Bohm also made significant theoretical contributions to neuropsychology and the development of the holonomic model of the functioning of the brain.[1] In collaboration with Stanford neuroscientist Karl Pribram, Bohm helped establish the foundation for Pribram's theory that the brain operates in a manner similar to a hologram, in accordance with quantum mathematical principles and the characteristics of wave patterns.

 

These wave forms may compose hologram-like organizations, Bohm suggested, basing this concept on his application of Fourier analysis, a mathematical method for decomposing complex waves into component sine waves. The holonomic brain model developed by Pribram and Bohm posits a lens defined world view�?much like the textured prismatic effect of sunlight refracted by the churning mists of a rainbow�?STRONG> a view which is quite different from the more conventional "objective" approach. Pribram held that if psychology means to understand the conditions that produce the world of appearances, it must look to the thinking of physicists like Bohm.

 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 

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 Message 3 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 9/4/2007 6:23 PM
Thought (en masse) in what Bohm called, "Sustained incoherence"
(sounds mightily like the human raceto me)
 
 
David Bohm

David Bohm (1917-94) was one of the foremost theoretical physicists of his generation and one of the most influential theorists of the emerging paradigm through which the world is increasingly viewed. Bohm's challenge to the conventional understanding of quantum theory has led scientists to re-examine what it is they are doing and to question the nature of their theories and their scientific methodology. He brought together a radical view of physics, a deeply spiritual understanding and a profound humanity. In the years before his death in 1992, Bohm lectured worldwide on the meaning of physics and consciousness.

In an interview in 1989 at the Nils Bohr Institute in Copenhagen, where Bohm presented his views, Bohm spoke on his theory of wholeness and the implicate order. The conversation centered around a new worldview that is developing in part of the Western world, one that places more focus on wholeness and process than analysis of separate parts. Bohm explained the basics of the theory of relativity and its more revolutionary offspring, quantum theory. Either theory, if carried out to its extreme, violates every concept on which we base our understanding of reality. Both challenge our notions of our world and ourselves. 

He cited evidence from both theories that support a new paradigm of a more interrelated, fluid, and less absolute basis of existence, one in which mind is an active participant. "Information contributes fundamentally to the qualities of substance." He discussed forms, fields, superconductivity, wave function and electron behavior. "Wave function, which operates through form, is closer to life and mind...The electron has a mindlike quality."

In his groundbreaking theory of "wholeness and the implicate order", Bohm proposed a new model of reality that was a revolutionary challenge to physics. In this model, as in a hologram, any element contains enfolded within itself the totality of its universe. Bohm's concept of totality included both matter and mind. 

Bohm also mentioned the dangers we face as a society and the changes we will have to make in our thinking in order to have a future. He said we need a more holistic approach to the ecological problem and must find something else in life besides economic growth; if it continues unchecked, it will destroy the planet.The emerging change in consciousness is the challenge and the key: "Our future depends on whether we feel like part of this one whole or whether we feel we're separate."

 

from this link:

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~sai/Bohm.html

 


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 Message 4 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 9/4/2007 6:26 PM

Bohm redefined physics. To him it was not about mere prediction and control, nor even mathematical equations. Though central to the enterprise, they are not its essence. Physics is about nature and our understanding of nature. For Bohm, its meaning and its message were creativity, the signature of an infinite universe. He saw it an undivided wholeness enfolded into an infinite background source that unfolds into the visible, material, and temporal world of our everyday lives.

He said that thought can grasp the unfolded, but only something beyond thought - intuition, unmediated insight, intelligence - can EXPERIENCE the enfolded. At some point deep within the implicate order, thought and language fail us and only sacred silence can reveal truth. That silence is the language of the whole, the universe expressing itself through us in a life of integrity rather than fragmentation.

Bohm envisioned a transformation for those who grasped quantum mechanics in depth:a world of interconnection and interdependence, of direct and instantaneous communication, in which we have learned to harness the energies of compassion. Giving voice to the marvelous possibilities of a new future, he was himself an example of his ideas.

Many who knew him thought of him as a sort of "secular saint." He had a visionary quality that drew others to him and inspired them. He was transported by the clarity of his vision and energized by it to such a point that he swept his listeners with him into the orbit of the possible. He believed in a world that was meaningful, clear, intelligent andspiritual, where the implicate order is expressed as a living force in our explicate lives.

SELECTED PUBLICATIONS:

    "Quantum Theory," New York, 1951
    "Causality and Change in Modern Physics," London, 1957
    "The Special Theory of Relativity," New York 1966
    "Wholeness and the Implicate Order," London, 1980
    "Unfolding Meaning," (record of a dialogue with David Bohm), London, 1985
    "Science, Order and Creativity," New York, 1987
    "Thought as a System," London, 1994

Reply
 Message 5 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashgordGemSent: 9/4/2007 7:19 PM

wow, this is really fascinating:

Bohm believes the reason subatomic particles are able to remain in contact with one another regardless of the distance separating them is not because they are sending some sort of mysterious signal back and forth, but because their separateness is an illusion. He argues that at some deeper level of reality such particles are not individual entities, but are actually extensions of the same fundamental something.
To enable people to better visualize what he means, Bohm offers the following illustration. Imagine an aquarium containing a fish. Imagine also that you are unable to see the aquarium directly and your knowledge about it and what it contains comes from two television cameras, one directed at the aquarium's front and the other directed at its side. As you stare at the two television monitors, you might assume that the fish on each of the screens are separate entities. After all, because the cameras are set at different angles, each of the images will be slightly different. But as you continue to watch the two fish, you will eventually become aware that there is a certain relationship between them. When one turns, the other also makes a slightly different but corresponding turn; when one faces the front, the other always faces toward the side. If you remain unaware of the full scope of the situation, you might even conclude that the fish must be instantaneously communicating with one another, but this is clearly not the case.
This, says Bohm, is precisely what is going on between the subatomic particles in Aspect's experiment. According to Bohm, the apparent faster-than-light connection between subatomic particles is really telling us that there is a deeper level of reality we are not privy to, a more complex dimension beyond our own that is analogous to the aquarium. And, he adds, we view objects such as subatomic particles as separate from one another because we are seeing only a portion of their reality. Such particles are not separate "parts", but facets of a deeper and more underlying unity that is ultimately as holographic and indivisible as the previously mentioned rose. And since everything in physical reality is comprised of these "eidolons", the universe is itself a projection, a hologram.
In addition to its phantomlike nature, such a universe would possess other rather startling features. If the apparent separateness of subatomic particles is illusory, it means that at a deeper level of reality all things in the universe are infinitely interconnected.The electrons in a carbon atom in the human brain are connected to the subatomic particles that comprise every salmon that swims, every heart that beats, and every star that shimmers in the sky. Everything interpenetrates everything, and although human nature may seek to categorize and pigeonhole and subdivide, the various phenomena of the universe, all apportionments are of necessity artificial and all of nature is ultimately a seamless web.
In a holographic universe, even time and space could no longer be viewed as fundamentals. Because concepts such as location break down in a universe in which nothing is truly separate from anything else, time and three-dimensional space, like the images of the fish on the TV monitors, would also have to be viewed as projections of this deeper order. At its deeper level reality is a sort of superhologram in which the past, present, and future all exist simultaneously. This suggests that given the proper tools it might even be possible to someday reach into the superholographic level of reality and pluck out scenes from the long-forgotten past.
What else the superhologram contains is an open-ended question. Allowing, for the sake of argument, that the superhologram is the matrix that has given birth to everything in our universe, at the very least it contains every subatomic particle that has been or will be -- every configuration of matter and energy that is possible, from snowflakes to quasars, from blue whales to gamma rays. It must be seen as a sort of cosmic storehouse of "All That Is."
Although Bohm concedes that we have no way of knowing what else might lie hidden in the superhologram, he does venture to say that we have no reason to assume it does not contain more. Or as he puts it, perhaps the superholographic level of reality is a "mere stage" beyond which lies "an infinity of further development".


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 Message 6 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 9/5/2007 12:08 AM
Re:   Everything interpenetrates everything, and although human nature may seek to categorize and pigeonhole and subdivide, the various phenomena of the universe, all apportionments are of necessity artificial and all of nature is ultimately a seamless web.
In a holographic universe,
even time and space could no longer be viewed as fundamentals. Because concepts such as location break down in a universe in which nothing is truly separate from anything else, time and three-dimensional space,
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 
Edgar Cayce always insisted there are 3 Dimensions to Reality.
The three (3) he spoke of always, were "Time, Space & Patience"
 
Of course this means nothing to one who isn't deep enough to begin to understand what he tried to tell us. David Bohm would have recognized immediately what Cayce was saying.
That without "Patience" to explore the inner self, the inner universe of self; one can never "get" or understand that we've (en masse) created the other two dimensions, being "Time &^ Space" both illusions of the SAME creation.
 
I'll post a seperate thread both for David Bohm's Natal Chart as well as his various YouTubes we can explore him more in depth.
I think he was the more fascinating one in the modern Quantum Psychics realm because Einstein said of David prior to Einstein's own death..........that
"If ANYONE is going to discover the missing link, or the Key to everything, it will be David Bohm"
 
That missing link that Einstein looked for his entire life to explain life.......he felt that David Bohm had both the wherewithal and the intellligence to get to it.
 
Unfortunately for David, (or perhaps fortunatly for us), he suffered from depression his entire life, therefore, (the fortunate part) is that this depression of his, caused by a very stern father, in his childhood, made David seek out Krishnamurti, and "adopt" him, as almost a father figure in his later life.
 
This then led David to becoming (late in life) even more "disenchanted" by this close relationship he forged with Krishnamurti, after David found out that this guru, this philosophical giant who he "revered" as higher then, was simply just a man.
He found this out when he learned that K's relationship with a married woman, who they both knew well; was an illicit affair that K had his entire life.
 
This "hurt" David very much, because he put "K" (Krishnamurti) up on a pedastal, as thought he wasn't human, (again the complex father image he constantly tried to place onto him, psychologi cally)
But again, fortunately for the rest of us, this deep need that David had, (to replace in his psyche a father with Krishnamurti) led him to various resovoirs he perhaps never would have drunk from had he had the perfect childhood.......and didn't have a very "emotional Need".....that led him beyond the walls of normal scientific thinking.
 
 
Check the new thread for more on David Bohm.
 
 

Reply
 Message 7 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashgordGemSent: 9/5/2007 9:52 PM
good idea for a new thread.
 
going back to my original post ,just incase you are interested and want to take the consciousness test the address is here ,its also on a youtube video.
 
 
havnt watched the 5 min one yet

Reply
 Message 8 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 9/6/2007 4:35 AM
I watched the 5 minutes one , it was amazing!
 
Really cool .........I loved it, and will watch it over & over again I'm sure.
 
I do wonder however, what this person said, (on the comments section) and IF it was ever answered satisfactorily??..............
I'm not sure, but I DO think I saw something.....with words in it.
 
 
 
Whats the subliminal message in the middle

Reply
 Message 9 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashgordGemSent: 9/6/2007 4:03 PM
possibly the watermark from the program he was using to create the vid? other than that im not sure
i didnt notice it myself. was it only on the 5 min one?

Reply
 Message 10 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashgordGemSent: 9/6/2007 4:20 PM
i just watched it and its the watermark from the program,although i couldnt make out the words as the video resolution wasnt quite high enough for me.
i am having abit of a problem actually seeing something when i close my eyes. often when ive done this all i see is shape that the light from my monitor has impressed upon my eyes,much like if you catch a glimse of the sun quick you have this blob in your eye when the suns image made an impression image.so i cant actually see anything other than the screen lights.
although before when i watched it it did make me think deeply afterwards.

Reply
 Message 11 of 11 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCaringLeomoonSent: 9/6/2007 8:25 PM
I don't know, as it wasn't me who inquired about a "sublminal" message, but one of the viewers of the site...........
 
But I think it's FUN to both watch, muse over and even begin to think that the world, and indeed the universe, has all of these geometric shapes and forms, (even the ant in the back yard on the ground) but we do not percieve the shape or magnitude of what we cannot see....
 
Each atom, each corpuscle, has a geometric form.and perhaps we'll walk into nature now, realizing this, when we observe anything, hence, a consciousness change can occur.
 
 
 
 

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