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Surname S : ST. JOHN Thomas
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Message 1 of 9 in Discussion

From:

ConnemaraKate (Original Message)

Sent: 5/15/2007 6:56 PM

From: <NOBR>

lsaintj26</NOBR> (Original Message)

Sent: 2007/05/15 06:32 PM

Hello all

I am a new member and I figured I should start posting questions before I chicken out. Okay. I am looking for information on Thomas St John and his wife Johanna. Thomas was born in Ireland in 1865. I do not know which County. I have been researching Tipperary because when I researched the surname St John I found out that Tipperary had the majority of St John families. Johanna C was born in Ireland in 1867. I do not have a maiden name for Johanna. Thomas immigrated to the US in 1884. Johanna immigrated to the US in 1885. Thomas and Johanna C married around 1892. They lived in New York City. They had nine children that I know of. James (1893 - 1969), Catherine (1896), Elizabeth (1898), Patrick (1900 - 1972), Daniel (1901 - 1979), John (1903 - 1977) (My paternal grandfather), Anna (1906), Mary (1908) Margaret (1911). Thomas passed away between 1910 - 1920. (1910 is the last census listing Thomas. 1920 lists Johanna as a widow.) I would appreciate any information that you can find on Thomas or Johanna. Thank you.

Lynn

First Previous 2-9 of 9 Next Last

Message 2 of 9 in Discussion

From:

jelora

Sent: 5/15/2007 8:02 PM

Hi Lynn.. Welcome to the Group..

I just happened to be looking through the death index for NYC when I saw your post come through.

The following are on the index for Death of Thomas StJohn that fit somewhat into your search parameters.

Name _______ age___ DOD _____ Cert No._ Borough _ Birth years

StJohn Thomas 57 y_ Dec 25 1922 _1939_ Richmond __1864 - 1865

StJohn Thomas 47 y _Feb 1 1919 _5130_ Manhattan ___1871 - 1872

StJohn Thomas 60 y _Jan 30 1915_ 3405_ Manhattan ___1854 - 1855

The following is from the www.familysearch.org

IGI

Thomas St John

Male

Birth: 06 MAY 1894 Manhattan, New York, New York

:Parents:

Father: Thomas St John

Mother: Johanna Cantwell

Messages:

Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.

The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or

christening date.

Source Information:

Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C008896

You now know that there was another son born to Thomas and Johanna.

Now that you have the surname CANTWELL

More information maybe found on the family.

If a marriage certificate can be found it maybe the best source of information..

I'll be getting back to you soon.

jelora

Message 3 of 9 in Discussion

From:

lsaintj26

Sent: 5/15/2007 10:13 PM

WOW. Thank you. I have been trying to get information for months. I look forward to hearing from you again. If I find out any more information I will let you know. Thanks

Lynn

Message 4 of 9 in Discussion

From:

jelora

Sent: 5/16/2007 5:15 AM

Hi Lynn,

I tried to follow the family from the 1900 census forward..

I 'll have a few questions as I'm sure you will after I post these findings..

Johanna varies her age from _1872 _1875 and lastly 1867 _1920 census.

1920 United States Federal Census 1920 United States Federal Census

Name:Johanna St John

Home in 1920:Manhattan Assembly District 5, New York, New York

Age:53 years

Estimated birth year:abt 1867

Birthplace:Ireland

Relation to Head of House:Head

Father's Birth Place:Ireland

Mother's Birth Place:Ireland

Marital Status:Widow

Home owned:Rent

Year of Immigration:1885

Able to read:Yes

Able to Write:Yes

Image:356

Neighbors:View others on page

Household Members:NameAge

Johanna St John_53

James St John__27

Patrick St John__21

Daniel St John__18

John St John___17

Anna St John___14

Margaret St John_9

I couldn't find Johnana in the 1930 census and thought that I could find out more information by following the children.

I first found James since he was required to register in 1942..

WW11 Draft Registration 1942

James Anthony St John

DOB; 19 Dec 1982

Address: 542 W. 51 st. St New York New York

Occupation: None

Nearest relative: Catherine Donnelly

3044 Kingsbridge Rd Bronx, New York

The mention of relative Catherine Donnelly led me to believe that this was his sister Katherine, born in 1896.

Social Security Death Index Social Security Death Index

Name:Catherine Donnelly

SSN:050-20-6891

Last Residence:11361 Flushing, Queens, New York, United States of America

Born:2 Dec 1895

Died:Sep 1987

State (Year) SSN issued:New York (Before 1951 )

The following can be found on the Italian Genealogical Group

website.

The certificate #'s are given after the date of marriage

You can request the certificate on-line from NYC or from the Family History Library in Salt Lake City as long as you have the certificate #'s with the film #'s.

StJohn Katharine Jul 26 1917 23039 Manhattan

Donnelly Thomas J Jul 26 1917 Manhattan 23039

Murphy Hugh E Jun 28 1918 Manhattan 21233

StJohn Elizabeth Jun 28 1918 21233 Manhattan

Ford Margaret Feb 18 1922 5487 Manhattan

StJohn James Feb 18 1922 Manhattan 5487

McManus Lucy Jun 20 1926 17206 Manhattan

StJohn Patrick Jun 20 1926 Manhattan 17206

StJohn Daniel May 13 1924 Manhattan 13623

No Bride's name was given with Daniel

The following may not be your grandfather. There were two choices and since Catherine was living in the Bronx.. I selected this John

StJohn John V Sep 3 1933 Bronx 7367

Kauff Helen C Sep 3 1933 7367 Bronx

Shuster William J Sep 21 1922 Manhattan 24209

StJohn Anna M Sep 21 1922 24209 Manhattan

I didn't find a Margaret St. John in the recrods.

Just a side note...

Our family lived on Kingsbridge Rd, about the same time as Catherine. We then moved to Jackson Heights, Queens. We went to school in East Elmhurst. Then another move onto Corona my last year in HS , Later my parents moved to Kissena Blvd ,Flushing.

Small world isn't it..?

Hope that there is a match to your family among these records..

Best,

jelora

Message 5 of 9 in Discussion

From:

lsaintj26

Sent: 5/17/2007 3:18 AM

Hi jelora

I was mixed up about the birth years for Johanna. I do know that the 1920 census you listed is my grandfather’s family. I read that when the censuses were done they would question whoever they met so the age and birth year discrepancies don’t really surprise me.

Now for my grandfather’s info. John St John married Elizabeth Kane. The 1930 census has a column for the age at first marriage. John was 20 and Elizabeth was 18. Below is what I think is the date of their marriage. It is not listed in the grooms index under John so I really can’t verify. (I might be doing something wrong???) It showed in the 1920 census that Elizabeth’s family lived in Manhattan. That is why I am pretty sure this is my grandmother.

Kane Elizabeth Mar 2 1923 11477 Manhattan K500

I agree with you. It is a small world. My Grandfather lived in Flushing Queens when he died in 1977.

I have all this history in NYC and I have relatives still living there. Unfortunately I have never spent any time there. I have only driven on a bus to go to the Statue of Liberty. I plan on taking a trip there sometime. Hopefully soon.

Thank you again for all of your help. I’m starting to enjoy the research again.

Lynn

Message 6 of 9 in Discussion

From:

jelora

Sent: 5/17/2007 7:32 AM

Hi Lynn,

I started checking the Thomas St.John that died in 1915.

There was a death notice in the NY Times___01 Feb. 1915

St John_Thomas, 402 1/2 East 56 St._Jan 30

Funeral Tomorrow 10 A.M.

This leaves St. John Thomas 47 y_01 Feb 1919_5130__ Manhattan_______1871-1872 as the next choice.

Birth years don't match.. but can't find any other..

Following is the info on the other Thomas St. John family.

Notice, besides the wife's name being Johanna the children seem to have the same name pattern.

Address 1910:

984 1st Ave near E. 55 st.

Not far from Thomas and Johanna..your family who lived on W. 50th St.

1910 United States Federal Census 1910 United States Federal Census

Name:Thomas St John

[Thomas Stjohn]

Age in 1910:55

Estimated birth year:abt 1855

Birthplace:Ireland

Relation to Head of House:Head

Father's Birth Place:Ireland

Mother's Birth Place:Ireland

Spouse's name:Johanna

Home in 1910:Manhattan Ward 19, New York, New York

Marital Status:Married

Race:White

Gender:Male

Year of Immigration:1898

Neighbors:View others on page

Household Members:NameAge

Thomas St John_55

Johanna St John_50

James St John_27

Katie St John_24

Mary St John_21

This family arrived in 1898

Thomas and son James arrived Feb 1898_Campania_Queenstown

Johanna and daughters arrived 1898 Apr 17_Campania_Queenstown

Last residence in Ireland [best read]: Templemore Co. Tipp

Going to husband Thomas_693 E. 1st Ave.NYC

Not found so far in 1900 census.

If you decide to send for certificates the url for the Archives is:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/vitalrecords/death.shtml

This is for the online form for requesting certificates, from NYC

Since you have the certificate # the cost is $10.00

You can also order certificates from Salt Lake City Family History Library.. The cost is four dollars for one certificate.. $2.00 ea if you order more than one. You can order up to eight certificates at one time.

If you haven't done this before I can help you fill out the form..

I'll check on the marriage of Elizabeth Kane..

Later,

jelora

Message 7 of 9 in Discussion

From:

jelora

Sent: 5/18/2007 5:29 AM

Hi Lynn,

The Elizabeth Kane that you found was your Grandmother.

Your Grandfather was listed as John and not St. John

John John H Mar 2 1923 Manhattan 11477

Kane Elizabeth Mar 2 1923 11477 Manhattan

DEATHS

The following is the son born to Thomas and Johanna

StJohn	Thomas	1 y	Mar	22	1896	9891	Manhattan	1894 - 1895

This is Johanna wife of Thomas

StJohn	Johanna	y64	Nov	26	1928	29110	Manhattan	1863 - 1864

The following __1930 Census

James Stjohn

Home in 1930:Manhattan, New York, New York

Age:38

Estimated birth year:abt 1892

Birthplace:New York

Relation to Head of House:Head

Spouse's name:Margaret

Race:White

Household Members:NameAge

James Stjohn_38

Margaret Stjohn_28

James Stjohn_8

Catharine Stjohn_6

Margaret Stjohn_5

Thomas Stjohn_2

Josephine Stjohn_1 5/12

I have Questions about the relationships and absence of Hugh and Elizabeth St. John Murphy.

1. Did Hugh and Elizabeth die by the year 1930?

2. Who is the FATHER of James St. John Listed as nephew age 8?

Father was born in Ireland mother New York

1930 United States Federal Census 1930 United States Federal Census

Name:Margaret St John

Home in 1930:Bronx, Bronx, New York

Age:19

Estimated birth year:abt 1911

Relation to Head of House:Sister-in-law

Occupation:

Parents' birthplace:

Household Members:NameAge

Thomas Donnelley-36 .. b. NY parents England.. is a Vet of W W1

Kathyrn Donnelley_34

Frances Murphy_10 .. female neice

Hugh Murphy_8 _ nephew

Thomas Murphy_5 _ nephew

James St John_8 nephew b. NY Father b. Irish Fr State_Mother _NY

Margaret St John_19... sister in law.

Source Citation: Year: 1930; Census Place: Bronx, Bronx, New York; Roll:

1490; Page: 13B; Enumeration District: 703; Image: 576.0.

I was unable to find Daniel nor Anna St. John married to William J. Shuster

The death Certificate of Johanna St. John , should provide further family connections in Ireland

The marriage certificate of your Grandparents John and Elizabeth Kane St. John should give parents information.

I'd also suggest that you send for the death certificate of the Thomas St. John that died in 1919.

Once you have this information, you can trace the family back to Ireland.

Hope this helps..

Take care,

jelora

Message 8 of 9 in Discussion

From:

lsaintj26

Sent: 5/18/2007 5:56 PM

Hi jelora,

I just wanted to let you know that I am still trying to sort through all the infomation that you have given me. Wow. My head is spinning. The 1910 census with Thomas St John at age 55 is not my family. (they may be indirectly) the reason I know this is that my grandfather John was born in 1903 and is not showing up with this family.

I will get back to you with more updates once I figure things out. Thank you so much for all this info.

Lynn

Message 9 of 9 in Discussion

From:

jelora

Sent: 6/14/2007 10:12 PM

The following is a post that I received from Lynn.

She was unable to find any further information on Thomas St John

jelora

I received the certificates that you helped me order from the LDS. I was so excited when I received them. Thank you again for your help.

Listed below is what I have learned about my family.

Death Certificates:

Thomas St John

Birth Date: None Listed

Death Date: Feb 1, 1919

Age: 47

How long in US: 35 Years

How long in NY: 35 Years

Birthplace: Ireland (no county listed)

Name of Father: Thomas

Birthplace of Father: Ireland (no county listed)

Name of Mother: Mary Gleason

Birthplace of Mother: Ireland (no county listed)

Johanna St John

Birth Date: None Listed

Death Date: November 26, 1928

Age: 64

How long in US: 45 Years

How long in NY: 45 Years

Birthplace: Ireland (no county listed)

Name of Father: Thomas Cantwell

Birthplace of Father: Ireland (no county listed)

Name of Mother: Elizabeth Sheehan

Birthplace of Mother: Ireland (no county listed)

I tried searching Thomas and Johanna in the lds database. I did not find anything on Thomas. I did find Johanna. Listed below is the information that I found. I think that it is probably correct.

Johana Cantwell

Birth: 10 Nov 1866 0694, Kilcooly, Tipperary, Ireland (one of the censuses list November for her birth month)

Father: Thomas Cantwell

Mother: Eliza Shehan

I did searches on the common names that I have found in my family. Listed below are her siblings:

I'm a little confused with Eliza.

Eliza Cantwell

Birth: 2 Feb 1865 0805, Kilcooly, Tipperary, Ireland

Father: Thomas Cantwell

Mother: Eliza Shehan

Eliza Cantwell

Birth: 22 May 1872 Tipperary, Ireland

Father: Thomas Cantwell

Mother: Eliza Cantwell

Thomas Cantwell

Birth: 12 Oct 1876 Commons, Tipperary, Ireland

Father: Thomas Cantwel

Mother: Eliza Cantwel Shehan

The marriage certificate of

John St John and Elizabeth Kane

They were married on 2 Mar 1923

The best man was Thomas Donnelly (Katherine's husband)

and the maid of honor was Margaret Kane (Elizabeth's sister)

Grooms parents: Thomas St John and Johanna Cantwell St John.

Brides Parents: Edward Kane and Elizabeth Reilly Kane. (Reilly, a new name)

The marriage certificate of

Katherine St John and Thomas Donnelly.

They were married on 26 Jul 1917

Thomas Donnelly was still a soldier. The

maid of honor was Elizabeth St John (Katherine's sister).

Brides parents: Thomas St John and Johanna Cantwell St John.

Grooms Parents: John Donnelly and (looks like) Audrey Brown Donnelly.

Death certificate of Elizabeth St John Murphy

Death Date: 17 Aug 1926

Edward Murphy was her husband.

Do you have any suggestions on finding more information on Thomas St John?

Thank you again for all you help. I really appreciate it.

Lynn

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