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| | From:  bumblenanny (Original Message) | Sent: 5/25/2007 8:17 AM |
Hi, i wonder if you will be able to help me solve the problem of my disappearing family. My fathers name was Richard SUCH b.1917 in Rotherhithe, and my grandfather was also called Richard SUCH, he was b.1889 in Rotherhithe. I have my grandparents marriage cert which gives my g.grandfathers name as John SUCH. I also have the original marriage cert for my g.grandfather to Elizabeth Daniels in 1878 which gives his fathers name as John SUCH.
When i started doing my family history i thought with a name like SUCH and with the certificates i already had it was going to be really easy, at the time there were only five SUCH'S in the phone book and four of them were my relatives. However, having found them in the 1891 census i found that my g.grandfather was born in birmingham, and thats where it got difficult, there were loads of them. Anyway i think i have found them but as i cant find a birth certificate for my g.grandfather who was b.1857, (this is according to his marriage cert, 1891 census and death cert), i dont have his mothers name.
In the 1861 census for Rotherhithe, i have found a John SUCH, b.1828 in Stratford on Avon, with wife Fanny, b.Stafford and their children, Jane b.1855, John b.1857, and Harriet b1860. Jane and John were both born in Birmingham and Harriet was born in Plaistow, Essex. In the 1871 census they appear with another son Jonathon, b.1852. I have found birth certs. for Harriet and Jonathon, which give their mothers maiden name as Fanny Noden, but i haven't been able to find a marriage cert for John and Fanny, Fanny died in 1874 and it looks like John remarried to a Caroline Robinson. Sorry to go on so long but without John's birth cert how can i prove i am following the right line. I cannot find them in either the 1881 or 1901 census either. If you can help with this i would be really grateful, Sue Hammond |
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Hi Sue Thank you for your message. We are on the case, and will post on here when we have something to report. Here's hoping that we can help you in your latest search. Marian |
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Hi Sue I am checking out the censuses, and I notice on the 1871 that Jonathan, Jane, John and Harriet are all down as being born in BERMONDSEY. It could be a mistake by the census enumerator, but if not it could make a difference. Please let me know what you think. Marian Living at 7 Surrey Place, Rotherhithe: John Such b1828 England Fanny Such wife b1821 Staffordshire Children: Jonathan b 1852 Bermondsey Jane b 1855 Bermondsey John b1857 Bermondsey Harriet b 1859 Bermondsey |
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These are the only two marriages of a John Such to Fanny (Frances) that I have found. I realize the year could be slightly out, but then again the ages of their children on the censuses may not be accurate. Marian Marriages Dec 1852 (>99%)
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Adey Frances St George in the East 1c 942
SUCH John St George in the East 1c 942 *************************************************************** Marriages Dec 1844 (48%)
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JEFFREYS Elizabeth Marylebone 1 169
KEEN Frances Marylebone 1 169
SUCH John George Marylebone 1 169
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Hi Sue I think that Fanny Noden was also known as Hannah. On the 1861 census at 8 Silver Street, Rotherhithe it says she was born Weston, Staffordshire. I find her age 18 on the 1841 census living in Weston with her parents Emmanuel age 50 and Ann age 55, and her siblings George age 16 and John age 10. Marian |
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Hi Sue Sorry about the marriages I sent. Please ignore LOL Marian |
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Hi Sue A bit more info for you. Could this be a first marriage of Fanny Noden? Marriage Fanny Noden = Abraham Bradshaw 7 Oct 1839 Weston-upon-Trent, Staffs. **************************** More on Hannah Noden:- Marriage Hannah Noden born abt 1823 = George Walker 28 Dec 1845 Stockport, Cheshire Christening Hannah Noden 13 July 1823 Weston-upon-Trent, Staffs. Parents (Em)manuel and Ann Noden 1841 Census Name: Hannah Noden
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1823
Gender: Female
Where born: Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Weston Upon Trent
Hundred: South Pirehill
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: Occupation: View image
Registration district: Stafford
Sub-registration district: Colwich
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Noden 55
Emanuel Noden 50
George Noden 16
Hannah Noden 18
John Noden 10 |
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Hi Sue Are you aware of a link with the Ranson family? Please let me know as I have made an interesting discovery. Marian |
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Hi, I have an Elizabeth Ranson who was married to John Such in Nevenden, Essex, but i havent been able to connect them with my line as yet. I found them in the 1861 census and it looks like John Such was her second husband. Sue H |
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I think this is a mistake by the enumerator or John snr. just said they all came from the same area as that was easier. In the 1861 census Jane and John are both down as b.Birmingham and Harriet is b.Plaistow, Essex. Then as you say in the 1871 census they are all down as b. Bermondsey, Surrey and then in the 1891 census John is down as b. Birmingham again. I have not been able to find them in the 1881 or the 1901 census. I have the birth cert for Jonathon and he was definately born in Rotherhithe in 1861, and I have the birth cert for Harriett who was born 1859 in Plaistow Marsh, West Ham, Essex. These are the only two i have been able to find. I have a death cert. for Fanny Such who died 1874 in the Camberwell lunatic asylum age 53 years. They also seem to be unsure of their ages as in 1861 Fanny is 3yrs older than John and in 1871 she is 7yrs older. Sue H |
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Hi Sue I found them on the 1851 census: John Ranson Head 71 born 1780 Elizabeth Ranson Wife 67 Sarah Ranson Daughter 36 unmarried Elizabeth Ranson Daughter 26 unmarried Elizabeth Ranson Granddaughter 5 John Such Son 25 unmarried I also found a marriage record of John Such and Elizabeth Ranson in London March 1846 quarter. And yet they are both listed as "unmarried" on the 1851 census here, and Elizabeth still uses her maiden name. Strange. And a marriage of John Ranson Such in Woodbridge, Suffolk in March 1890 quarter. Marian |
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Hi Connie, This family of mine just gets harder to figure out. I have John Such and Elizabeth on the 1861 census. John Such, head, 38, Nevenden Elizabeth Such, wife, 36, West Tilbury Stephen R Such, son, 5, West Tilbury Ann R Such. dau, 3, West Tilbury John R Such, dau, 1, West Tilbury Elizabeth Ranson, dau in law, 15, West Tilbury Sarah Ranson, sister in law, 46, Chadwell st Mary As the children all have R as the middle name i assume this to mean they are all Ranson, Elizabeths maiden name. Why would Elizabeth Ranson age 15 be down as daughter in law? Looks more likely she is the illigitimate child of Sarah. I hadnt found them on the 1851 census, so thankyou for finding them. It is strange they are both listed as unmarried if they were married in 1846. The other marriage in Woodbridge must be John R Jnr. Might have to order a couple of certs just to prove something, although i'm not sure they are connected as yet. Still you never know, could be money well spent. Thanks again Sue |
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Hi Bumble Yes, it looks like you will have to order more certs. I know it can become expensive, but they are essential in order to prove who is who. Just make sure you prove one generation before going back further to the next. I am sure you know this anyway. Let us know how you get on. Marian |
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Hi again I have just been comparing those two censuses again, and I am wondering if Elizabeth junior b1846 is in fact SARAH Ranson's illegitimate daughter? I notice that both Sarah and young Elizabeth are still called Ranson in 1861. Marian |
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Hi Sue Sorry, I see you came to the same conclusion. We must be right! Marian |
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