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From: joie (Original Message)

Sent: 3/13/2004 10:26 PM

~~~~~~~~ LAW OR GRACE? ~~~~~~~~~

Here is the main problem with everyone:

They do NOT understand the DIFFERENCE between LAW and GRACE.

Now, this was Paul's MAIN theme. He wrote of this in all his epistles. He said this is a matter of salvation or being lost = the bond child = bound by sin = bound by law= bound by the yoke.

God showed me there is a message of law all the way through the word of God; from Genesis through Revelation. This is amazing to me; for I always thought there was law; then there was Grace.

That is not the way it is or was.

There was LAW in the beginning with Adam.

There was GRACE in the beginning with Adam.

He had a choice of either one of those trees or the other. One was life = Grace; the other was death = law.

Now Adam chose law = he chose death; for he did the thing God told him would bring death = he 'ate' of that tree of the knowledge of good & evil = law -- by the law is the knowledge of sin = evil.

Now, there is STILL LAW AND GRACE.

Each one of us have the choice still to make: choose ye this day whom you will serve; choose how you will serve him; choose life or death; choose law or grace ------ by warned--- you cannot have both----- you must break with law and choose grace (LIFE) --- or you will be bound by law and die and go to hell. For you have rejected God's way = the tree of life.

Law is bondage = a yoke.

Grace is freedom = not yoked = set free. = No restrictions = no law. = No sin = life. (Eternal life)

Moses, the lawgiver, was not under law = he was in Grace.

Noah was in Grace.

Law ---- says there are only certain ones who can serve God ----- it was the Jews -- no one else.

Law ----- says there is only a certain PLACE you can serve God ----- it was their Jerusalem.

Law --- says Gentiles cannot have salvation.

The LAW was NEVER given to the Gentiles --- only to the Jews.

The LAW prohibits the Jews from having anything to do with the Gentiles.

The LAW prohibits them from eating certain meats.

The LAW prohibits them from marrying certain people; only one of their own kind.

The Law prohibits them from working on Saturday.

The LAW kills those who break it.

The LAW limits how far they can travel on Saturday.

The LAW says 'Gentiles cannot come into the congregation of the Lord.

The LAW requires men to be circumcised.

The LAW forbids women to teach, or come into the inner courts of the tabernacle or place of worship. They must stand on the OUTSIDE.

Now, there are many more restrictions under the law; they are absolute COMMANDS. You must obey or be killed; that is IF YOU CHOOSE TO BE UNDER THE LAW.

But I will only list these now; you can find many other, if you try.

GRACE --- says, Peter you are to be blamed; for you eat with the Gentiles when the Jews are not here; but when they come, because they keep law, and therefore, say you cannot fellowship with Gentiles, therefore, you are breaking fellowship, because you think you are still under that LAW.

Then Peter came into GRACE -- and fellowshipped the Gentiles.

For under GRACE, THE PROMISE OF THE HOLY GHOST IS TO EVERYONE; ALL, THOSE WHO ARE NEIGH = THE JEWS --- AND ALL THOSE WHO ARE AFAR OFF = THE GENTILES.

GRACE - says we no longer must circumcise men = there is no difference; it does not matter now; it matters not if you are circumcised or not circumcised - this carries no weight in GRACE. Grace says only have faith in Jesus.

GRACE - says worship God and Work seven days a week; do it all the same; each day is just alike; work while it is day; work each and every day; preach daily.

GRACE --says all meats are now sanctified by prayer and nothing to be refused; for those strong in faith know they can eat anything. NOTHING is forbidden under GRACE; GRACE know those WEAK in faith = under law-- eat only herbs. Those who know the TRUTH = GRACE--- know every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused. Those under law still have to abstain from certain meats.

GRACE ---says they can marry whom ever they please; for to God we are all one.

GRACE--says everyone can now enter into the place of worship and worship alike. There are no restrictions.

GRACE --says worship anywhere; everywhere; worship all the time; anywhere, anyplace; do it in spirit and truth --- the days are come that the TRUE worshippers will not worship in this mountain; nor yet at Jerusalem; there is no certain place.

Glory to God, we are FREE.

LAW said stone her; BUT GRACE said neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.

LAW said SHE cannot teach; but GRACE SAID THERE IS NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE IN CHRIST ------ IN GRACE, YOU ARE IN CHRIST ---- IN LAW YOU ARE IN MOSES' HOUSE-

IN GRACE, THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK ----- THEY MAY ALL COME IN AND WORSHIP THE SAME GOD.

IN GRACE WOMEN CAN TEACH, PASTOR, PROPHESY, PREACH,

IN GRACE THERE IS NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE.

GRACE says the Holy Ghost is your REST ----- NO MORE SATURDAY SET-ASIDE EVERYDAY IS THE SAME TO GOD AND THOSE UNDER GRACE.

Oh thank you my Holy Jesus, for giving me your unspeakable amazing GRACE!

GRACE, GRACE, MARVELOUS GRACE

GRACE THAT IS GREATER THAN ALL MY SIN; FOR UNDER GRACE IS NO SIN; FOR WHERE THERE IS NO LAW, THERE IS NO SIN.

THANK YOU JESUS FOR MAKING ME FREE; FREE FROM SINS; FREE FROM BONDAGE; FREE TO TEACH YOUR WORD; FREE FROM EVERY YOKE.

JO, IN GRACE, JO HERE TO STAY AND TEACH WHAT HE GIVES ME.

HALLELUJAH

This message shows why it looks as if there are contradictions in the word of God. There are no contradictions; for that would be error; which would be a lie; God cannot lie; just because your finite mind does not understand all this, does not mean there are error in the word. If there are errors, then it is not God's word; for God cannot lie.

There is a message of law all through the word of God; from the start to the finish.

There is a message of GRACE all through the Word of God; from the start to the finish.

They are opposites; they mean exactly the opposite things. Therefore, they certainly will make it look as if there are contradictions or lies.

That people of God is what is wrong: here; or anywhere else;

Many of us see the GRACE message; we will not be brought back under the bondage of that LAW message.

Many others see that LAW message; and they dare not turn it loose and accept GRACE;

FOR THEY FEAR THAT IF THEY DO NOT DO THE WORKS OF THE LAW, THEY WILL BE LOST.

RIGHT THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE; YOU WILL BE LOST IF YOU GO BACK TO LAW AND FALL FROM GRACE;

THAT IS UNLESS YOU CAN KEEP THE WHOLE LAW WITHOUT BREAKING EVEN ONE COMMANDMENT.

IF YOU BREAK ONE COMMANDMENT, YOU ARE GUILTY OF IT ALL.

IF YOU KEEP LAW, YOU WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW.

UNDER GRACE IS NO CONDEMNATION; THEREFORE NO JUDGMENT.

WE ARE TOTALLY FREE. WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANYONE CHOOSE LAW OVER GRACE?

DEATH OVER LIFE?

YET MILLIONS STILL DO JUST WHAT ADAM DID -- CHOOSE DEATH.

STILL CHOOSING GRACE WHERE I CAN PREACH OR TEACH OR GO INTO THE SANCTUARY.

From: joie

Sent: 3/13/2004 10:33 PM

God just keeps feeding me this message; this morning I was just meditating and He gave me this:

John 19:7--The Jews answered him, We have a LAW, and by our LAW he (Jesus) ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Now just look at this --- by the LAW Jesus, the Son of God ought to die ---- why? > Because the LAW demands death, if you transgress the LAW.

What LAW are they going by? Guess!!!!!

The SABBATH LAW.

John 9:14--And it was the SABBATH DAY when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.

V28--Then they reviled him (the blind man whom Jesus had healed on the Sabbath day)--and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.

Yep, there is the whole trouble ~~~~~ they were Moses' disciples. And anyone still bound by the law today is also a Moses�?disciple ---- not Jesus' disciples. You cannot be in Moses house; and in Jesus' house (see Heb.)

V16--Therefore said some of the Pharisees, (Moses' disciples)--This man (Jesus)--is not of God, because he KEEPETH NOT THE SABBATH DAY.

Others said, How could a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.

Same today ~~ yep~~~~~ that Sabbath law makes the same division today; And know what? Those who try to hold to the one day a week Sabbath, have that same old hate, murdering spirit just as those Pharisees had.

John 5:1-18~~~~~ read this whole part-- it is an eye opener.

Here Jesus had healed the impotent man on the Sabbath Day. This made Moses' disciples very angry. Angry with Jesus. Why? Because He broke their LAW.

They told the impotent man, It is not LAWFUL for thee to carry thy bed.

V11--but the man said the one who healed me, told me to take up the bed and walk.

See, this man had not walked for 38 years; he had lain on a bed. This bed represents those under the LAW; THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY LAME.

Jesus healed him (set us free from that LAW; which had us bound = impotent).

(This kind of message still stirs up hate and murder in Moses' disciples).

V15--The man departed, (left Jesus; backslid for a while)--and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.

V16--And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to SLAY HIM, because he had done these things on the SABBATH DAY.

See we have a LAW, and by our LAW, he ought to DIE.

They sought to SLAY = KILL JESUS BECAUSE HE BROKE THEIR SABBATH DAY.

Now what was their SABBATH Day? The seventh day rest.

V17--But Jesus answered them, My Father WORKETH HITHERTO, AND I WORK.

V18--Therefore the Jews sought the more to KILL him, BECAUSE he not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

See, by their LAW, they could not be God's sons. They knew something was wrong; how could Jesus by God's Son? He was under their LAW ~~~~ or so they thought.

But was He?

Read on.

John 7---- they are still 'stewing' over Jesus healing on the Sabbath Day ~~~~

V19--Did not Moses give you the LAW, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me? (See none of them were actually keeping the LAW).

They then deny seeking to kill Jesus. He told them by circumcising a man on the Sabbath, the priests profane the day and they are not guilty. Why are you angry with me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the Sabbath day?

V25--Then said some of them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill?

See it was common knowledge that they sought to kill Jesus; yet they denied this. At the very time they deny this, they are seeking to kill Jesus; there was no truth in them. See they think there is nothing wrong with lying; yet God demands truth - speak every man truth with his neighbor.

Every word of God is a command. We do not have a choice of obeying His voice or disobeying. If we disobey, we are in rebellion and He will give us damnation for this.

V 37--He tells them to come to him and drink; and out of their belly shall flow rivers of living water.

He spoke of the Holy Ghost = the true rest. This is where he was trying to take them; into the true rest; but they entered not in because of UNBELIEF.

V43--So there was a division among the people because of HIM.

See, this is the place of division today = because of HIM.

Those under LAW still hate those of us who let the Holy Ghost be our rest - because of HIM.

Now watch that 'broken' covenant.

In John 8: Moses disciples (Pharisees)-- are still bickering with Jesus. They never let him alone. Same today.

V33--The try to claim being Abraham's seed v37-- I know that ye are Abraham's seed;

But ye seek to kill me, because my WORD hath no place in you.

They were LAW keepers; yet Jesus said His Word had no place in them. So his Word was not the LAW.

They were still seeking to kill him; and he was still telling them the truth of the matter.

V39--They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

V40--But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard from God: this did not Abraham.

V41--Ye do the deeds of your father. (Now Jesus has taken the conversation over into Grace; he is speaking spiritual now; they are still speaking fleshly)- Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

See they had tried to go to the flesh for their justification - by claiming to be Abraham's natural children. This did not work -- Jesus took it to the spirit. They understood this; so they also switched and tried to go spiritual by claim God to be their spiritual Father.

Look at Jesus' answer to this:

V42--Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God;' neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Now, the Jesus only people deny this; and try to make Jesus a lie; by claiming Jesus is the father. See they all find some way to call Jesus wrong.

V43--Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my WORD.

See, under the LAW, one cannot hear the WORD.

V44--Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and father of it.

Now do you see, here that Jesus said that lies are the very property of Satan? Satan, the devil, originated lies and murder. So if you tell lies, you have in you the spirit of the devil. These LAW keepers had both lies and murder in their heart; yet they were accusing Jesus of breaking the Sabbath day. My, My.

Look at v59--Then took they up STONES to cast at him: ------

They were of the stony heart = the law. By the law they were to STONE offenders to death; so they felt justified to stone him to death; that was law. That is why they are forever throwing 'stones' at me; for I teach grace.

Now, let me see if I can take you into the true depth of this message:

********************************************************

They had brought a woman taken in adultery to Jesus and asked him if he would honor Moses law and let them stone her to death. Well, you know what happened; Jesus baffled them by calling on those without sin to start the stone throwing; but first he had convicted them all of their own sins.

He is smart.

But what was He really doing? Of course --- what He came here for --- Grace and TRUTH came by Jesus Christ. Now they thought, and most everyone still thinks Jesus was under the LAW; but was He?

He was MADE under the Law - meaning the Law time. Yet he himself, like Moses, the lawgiver, was under and in Grace. He is Grace.

So by Grace, what was his rest? Not the 7th day weekly Sabbath. That is why he constantly broke it. See he was KEEPING THE SABBATH DAY --- BUT HE WAS KEEPING THE GRACE SABBATH.

The 7th day, weekly, one day a week, Sabbath is the LAW Sabbath. But Jesus was of Grace; so He kept the Grace Sabbath of the Holy Ghost; was he not filled with the Spirit at his Baptism? Is not this the Grace way of doing things? Is not this the New Testament salvation? Did not Jesus refer to the New Testament in His blood?

So, he did keep the Sabbath Day; but not their Law Sabbath. That is what angered them; they could not understand the NT. Sabbath Day - a Day of salvation- for the Holy Ghost was NOT YET GIVEN TO ANYONE EXCEPT JESUS.

So, Jesus DID keep the whole law; but he was keeping it the Grace way. Glorious revelation! Thank you Lord Jesus for this great truth.

He was the very first one to enter in at the strait gate, which leads to eternal life; He was in Grace; He was resting from his own works and doing the works of the Father.

Jesus could not stone the lady; for he gave her grace.

Jesus could not stop working on the 7th day rest for he was in grace. This is why he said, My Father works hitherto and I work. See, Both the Father and the Son keep the Grace Sabbath; not the Law Sabbath.

Now, watch that broken covenant:

****************************************

Now, all of the above shows how Jesus was keeping and showing the Grace life; the Grace Sabbath BEFORE his Death. The other side of Calvary.

So now, watch him throw them for a loop, which lasts all the way down to our day.

Jesus first appeared to a WOMAN. He then reveals the message of the resurrection to Mary. Then he does the UNTHINKABLE - (according to the Law)---- He commissions this WOMAN to go tell this message to his disciples. Now these disciples were all men.

So, here goes Jesus again, throwing LAW MINDED people way off into utter darkness ---- why? Because they follow their father the devil = Adam. They are choosing death - law- bondage------saying only certain ones can serve God--- only certain ones can teach the Word----- only certain ones have a right to God--- only certain ones can be partakers---- only certain ones can do a work for God --- must be male --- must be Jew --- must be 7th day resters---- etc. etc.

Get the picture?

Only those of us who have the Grace covenant = the Holy Ghost, can understand - or hear - or see. The rest were and are BLINDED.

Then Paul continues this blinding of those who choose LAW --- he writes his words in such a way only those of us who have the Holy Ghost teaching us, can discern how it is to be interpreted.

He causes them to continue to believe that no woman can have or teach the revelation of God's word; of our Father.

But those of us in Grace know that Jesus still baffles those old Law keepers; and he still sends out the Mary's who have chosen that good part which not be taken away from us.

Praise your precious Name, my Holy Husband, Jesus for giving to this Mary, your handmaid, Jo, these wonderful words of Life to go and tell your disciples, male or female; for you do not see this flesh thing; to you we are all ONE.

Glory is too small to say -- but it is all I know

God just keeps revealing more of this to me. I thought I was finished, but as I went back to read this, more came to me.

************************************************

You can tell those who are still the old Jerusalem; those still under law today. They have many different clues.

1. They still believe you must go to a certain PLACE to worship = a church building.

2. They still believe you must go on a certain DAY. (Either Sat. or Sun.)

3. They still believe you must give a certain amount of your income - 10%.

4. They still believe you cannot have the Holy Ghost according to Acts today.

5. They still believe you must rest on that 7th day.

6. They still believe women cannot teach the word.

7. They still believe there are no gifts of the Spirit at work today.

8. They still believe you must be ruled over by a certain man (pastor, bishop, priest, etc.). We are all one.

They still believe you must be in that one certain place for God to contact you. For they believe He dwells there and no where else. I have actually had them tell me I will miss God if I do not come to their church. I was receiving almost more than I could handle right at home.

Well, I could just go on and on; but you can put some of it together; at least the Grace people can.

Well, God showed me what some of those stones are that they, (the law minded) attempt to stone me to death with are:

************************************************************************

1. This stone is hurled at me constantly ~~ You better keep the law. You better keep that Sabbath day of going fishing on Saturday; or something else you like doing; but not go to your job.

Now I have been pounded with this 'stone' so much since I started computering (and some before that)-- that if these stones really could physically kill, I would be in the grave. But they try to spiritually kill by making others think I am a liar and evil. It will not take away from the TRUTH.

2. A woman cannot preach, teach, or even open her mouth and utter something out of the Word of God. Women are seducing spirits. Yes this big, bad old 'stone' has been slung at me as long as I can remember. This one attempts to destroy my good relationship with my Jesus and His wonderful, marvelous word. Satan saw years ago how much I love His word, so he gets almost every man, and lots of deceived women to cast these stones at me almost daily.

But by the grace of God I am still going stronger than ever.

3. Another stone, which is hurled at us whom God has called out of Babylon, is this one: You cannot be saved outside the church. You had better get somewhere in a building and assembly yourselves together. Yes that is a big bad stone they club us with.

4. You better pay your tithes somewhere. Yes, others love to throw this stone at us. They still have that murdering spirit of their fathers, the Pharisees.

5. You better get to some local 'assembly' and support it; or you will be lost. You cannot live for God two weeks outside the church. I have been hit a few times with this stone.

More 'stones' the disciples of Moses -= Law keepers --- throw at us - to try to cause us to be carried away from our steadfastness in Grace and Faith.

*****************************

1. JESUS is no longer the Name of JESUS.

2. The Word of God is full of errors ---- you cannot depend on what it says in English; for it was not originally written in English ------ so you cannot believe what it says.

3. Women can dress like men and cut their hair like men -- it matters not; but they better not try to speak any Word to anyone.

4. You do not have to live a Holy, Godly life; for indeed you cannot. You can sin everyday and still be a Christian and on your way to Heaven.

5. Speaking in tongues is of the devil; witchcraft, and witch doctors -- so you better not seek the Holy Ghost.

6. You better not Baptize people in the name of Jesus Christ - you need to usurp His authority and use the name of His Father; which you are not authorized to use; for only Jesus in under the headship of the Father.

7. Or they will say Jesus is the only one; you better not believe in His Father.

8. Then others hurl this stone at us: you have to have an Old Testament prophet to receive anything from God now.

9. And of course their pet one -- Grace is not enough - you must also keep the Sabbath and the rest of the law.

On and on I could go; but you can see the essence of this message now. God has opened up wide the door and revealed the whole truth about Law and Grace -- why so many think they can prove their false teaching by the Written Word ---- they are seeing the message of law written for those of you who go the route Adam went - and choose Law instead of Grace.

See, even in OT. times, some of the people found Grace.

I have really enjoyed doing this message and hope some of you will be blessed and enlightened by it.

Praise the Name of Jesus who sent His Spirit and revealed this great truth to me, His handmaid.

You can clearly see that in saying these stone things, they show they have no faith. For the law is not of faith. That is the real purpose of their stoning us -- they want to destroy our FAITH for they have none.

By: JO Smith

Since this is about the most important message in the world, I think we should study on this:

From: joie

Sent: 5/30/2005 2:23 PM

NOBR>2co 3:3</NOBR>	Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.
<NOBR>2co 3:4</NOBR>	And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
<NOBR>2co 3:5</NOBR>	Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
<NOBR>2co 3:6</NOBR>	Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
<NOBR>2co 3:7</NOBR>	But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
<NOBR>2co 3:8</NOBR>	How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
<NOBR>2co 3:9</NOBR>	For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

<NOBR>2co 3:11</NOBR>	For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
<NOBR>2co 3:12</NOBR>	Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
<NOBR>2co 3:13</NOBR>	And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
<NOBR>2co 3:14</NOBR>	But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.
<NOBR>2co 3:15</NOBR>	But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.

Now, I ask you, What was written on STONE?

Is not this CLEARLY saying that Moses, written and engraven on STONE was ABOLISHED?

Does not ABOLISHED mean done away with?

From: joie

Sent: 5/30/2005 2:24 PM

<NOBR>Ga 5:1</NOBR>	Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
<NOBR>Ga 5:2</NOBR>	Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
<NOBR>Ga 5:3</NOBR>	For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
<NOBR>Ga 5:4</NOBR>	Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

From: joie

Sent: 5/30/2005 2:25 PM

NOBR>Ga 5:11</NOBR>	And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
<NOBR>Ga 5:12</NOBR>	I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
<NOBR>Ga 5:13</NOBR>	For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
<NOBR>Ga 5:14</NOBR>	For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
<NOBR>Ga 5:15</NOBR>	But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
<NOBR>Ga 5:16</NOBR>	This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
<NOBR>Ga 5:17</NOBR>	For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
<NOBR>Ga 5:18</NOBR>	But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

From: joie

Sent: 5/30/2005 2:26 PM

Ga 4:3

Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Ga 4:4

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Ga 4:5

To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

<NOBR>Ga 4:9</NOBR>	But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
<NOBR>Ga 4:10</NOBR>	Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
<NOBR>Ga 4:11</NOBR>	I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Was not the days, months, and times and years a thing under the LAW? Sure it was. Show me these things set up in the NT. It is NOT there. Does not this clearly call these things of law BONDAGE? Sure it does.

Did Not Paul say here that his labour to bring them to Christ was in VAIN because of their returning to THE BONDAGE OF LAW? Study the word.

<NOBR>Ga 4:21</NOBR>	Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
<NOBR>Ga 4:22</NOBR>	For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
<NOBR>Ga 4:23</NOBR>	But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
<NOBR>Ga 4:24</NOBR>	Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
<NOBR>Ga 4:25</NOBR>	For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
<NOBR>Ga 4:26</NOBR>	But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
<NOBR>Ga 4:27</NOBR>	For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
<NOBR>Ga 4:28</NOBR>	Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
<NOBR>Ga 4:29</NOBR>	But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
<NOBR>Ga 4:30</NOBR>	Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
<NOBR>Ga 4:31</NOBR>	So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

This bondwoman and her son are those serving under law.

Maybe you will read some other Books of the Word if I paste them here for you. Maybe you can see that you have not heard the true Word taught before.

Now take the time to carefully read the above verses. Paul is clearly saying those who went back under that law, was in the bondage, and that this bondage is the bond child [the Jerusalem which now is; the natural Jews and their law]

is this bond child which WAS CAST OUT NOT TO BE HEIR WITH THE FREE SONS OF GOD, THOSE IN GRACE WHO HAVE CAST OUT THAT LAW. WE SERVE GOD BY LOVE, WHICH IS HIS ONLY ACCEPTED WAY.

Under LOVE, we do NOT commit adultery. Those still under law will do it and pretend they do not do it.

Under Love, we do not steal. Those under law will. See, Love fulfills the righteousness of the law, but not by law, we do it by LOVE.

From: joie

Sent: 5/30/2005 2:27 PM

Galatians 3

<NOBR>Ga 3:1</NOBR>	O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
<NOBR>Ga 3:2</NOBR>	This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
<NOBR>Ga 3:3</NOBR>	Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
<NOBR>Ga 3:4</NOBR>	Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
<NOBR>Ga 3:5</NOBR>	He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
<NOBR>Ga 3:6</NOBR>	Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
<NOBR>Ga 3:7</NOBR>	Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
<NOBR>Ga 3:8</NOBR>	And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
<NOBR>Ga 3:9</NOBR>	So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
<NOBR>Ga 3:10</NOBR>	For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
<NOBR>Ga 3:11</NOBR>	But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
<NOBR>Ga 3:12</NOBR>	And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
<NOBR>Ga 3:13</NOBR>	Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
<NOBR>Ga 3:14</NOBR>	That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
<NOBR>Ga 3:15</NOBR>	Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
<NOBR>Ga 3:16</NOBR>	Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
<NOBR>Ga 3:17</NOBR>	And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
<NOBR>Ga 3:18</NOBR>	For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
<NOBR>Ga 3:19</NOBR>	Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
<NOBR>Ga 3:20</NOBR>	Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
<NOBR>Ga 3:21</NOBR>	Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
<NOBR>Ga 3:22</NOBR>	But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
<NOBR>Ga 3:23</NOBR>	But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
<NOBR>Ga 3:24</NOBR>	Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
<NOBR>Ga 3:25</NOBR>	But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Now I know this is a lot of Scripture for one post. But so what? Most people never read the Word any other way. I cannot prove the truth without the Written Word. There is no other proof of truth.

Those who teach any other way are not God's true ministers.

Now if you call me wrong for denying the Law for today, then you surely must condemn Paul along with me; for I am only quoting Paul here. Surely, we can trust Paul. If not then, who?

Here, Paul clearly states that if we are under the law, we are not in faith. You cannot have law and faith, for the law is not of faith. You cannot please God by law. Only in FAITH do we please and serve God.

No one will ever be justified by keeping laws. It is a bondage Jesus DELIVERED us from. This is the redeemption. Have you been redeemed? If you are still under law, you have not been redeemed.

Paul said it was to be bewitched to go back to law. He said being under the law was a CURSE! Are you under a curse? You are if you think you must still keep law.

Paul said the law was ADDED because of transgressions. He said if you are still under the law, you have not come to Christ. The law was only added until Jesus came and delivered us from it.

Now, who does not know the true God?

From: joie

Sent: 5/30/2005 2:29 PM

<NOBR>Ga 2:15</NOBR>	We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
<NOBR>Ga 2:16</NOBR>	Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. [this says we are not justified by the works of the law.]
<NOBR>Ga 2:17</NOBR>	But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
<NOBR>Ga 2:18</NOBR>	For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
<NOBR>Ga 2:19</NOBR>	For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. This says you must be dead to law to live unto God. If you go back to law, you make yourself a transgressor.
<NOBR>Ga 2:20</NOBR>	I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
<NOBR></NOBR>	I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. This is a strong indiction against law. If righteousness come by law, Christ died in vain! If you go back to law, you do despite to the Spirit of GRACE.

Maybe you should pray for God to OPEN the Book of Galatians to you!

From: joie

Sent: 5/30/2005 2:30 PM

Ac 15:1

And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Ac 15:2

When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

These men were trying to take the Christians BACK to law, and saying without law, they could not be saved. Well Let's just see what the Apostles say about this:

Ac 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

Ac 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Ac 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Ac 15:9
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Ac 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Ac 15:11
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Now see that Peter called this law a yoke of BONDAGE on the neck of their fathers. They were not able to bear it. So He said why tempt God to place this yoke back on our necks? So I ask you the same thing........why are you trying to bring the Grace......free.....Christians....back under this yoke of BONDAGE.

Ac 15:23
And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

Ac 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Now you best listen to this: this is all the early Church leaders in agreement on this subject of Christians having go keep the law. They called it subverting their souls to be told they must go back to the law of Moses [the Ten]. They said WE GAVE NO SUCH COMMANDMENT.

To say Christians must be circumcised and keep the law is troubling them. All the Apostles agreed that this is not for the NT Christians.

So who are you to try and bring us back under that bondage? Do you not believe the Apostles? If not, then why even bother with the Word of God and religion? Are you trying to subvert the souls of Christians? You are if you try to bring them into the bondage of LAW.

Jesus nailed that law to his cross and took it out of the way. I will give you Scripture for this also. Now in the face of this much Scripture PROVING that law is done away with now, how can you continue to deny this truth? Bring forth Scriptrue proving your words.........that we must still keep law. Where is your Scripture for this?

From: joie

Sent: 5/30/2005 2:31 PM

<NOBR>Col 2:10</NOBR>	And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
<NOBR>Col 2:11</NOBR>	In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
<NOBR>Col 2:12</NOBR>	Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
<NOBR>Col 2:13</NOBR>	And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
<NOBR>Col 2:14</NOBR>	Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
<NOBR>Col 2:15</NOBR>	And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
<NOBR>Col 2:16</NOBR>	Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
<NOBR>Col 2:17</NOBR>	Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Now this says we are complete in Christ. We need not law. We are complete with the circumcision made without hands = Baptism in the NT way.

This plainly says that Jesus took that law out of the way, nailed it to his cross and delivered us from it. When he said let no man judge you by these things, it is the things of that old LAW. It plainly says these were only shadows of the true things to come of Christ.

So do you wish to have shadows or the real thing? Salvation does not come by LAW. If you deny this much Scripture, you do not believe the Word of God.

From:

SearERIC

Sent: 5/31/2005 8:56 AM

Very good post Jo.

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From: joie

Sent: 5/31/2005 12:16 PM

Thank you, My Dear Friend. I am always so glad to see you come in and visit us here at Bottf. May you have a great day and find some delicious Peanuts.

Love to you,

Hey Jo, I am truly looking foward to some peanuts.

Me too. ........and smile......right back to you....and

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