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The Civil War : C.S.S. Virginia (Merrimac)
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Reply
 Message 1 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname-TinCan  (Original Message)Sent: 8/31/2003 1:47 PM
Have any of you good members read anything on the battle damage the Virginia suffered during it's battle with the Monitor? Why did the Confederates never put to sea in her again and what was the reason for this.
Any and all replies are welcome.
 
TinCan


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Reply
 Message 2 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB3Sent: 9/3/2003 4:18 PM
I can recall a documentary a year or so ago which was primarily about the raising of the Monitor, but it said something about the Virginia being battered beyond the Confederates limited means of repair and being abandoned when they evacuated Norfolk later the same year.

Reply
 Message 3 of 12 in Discussion 
From: sunnyboySent: 9/12/2003 4:30 PM
The Virginia was burned by the good people (confederates).  But it did not suffer any damage by the monitor.   The virginias ram had been damage earlier and this could have cause a leak causing the need for deeper water. Both ship just wasted ammo on each other.  I have never understood why the Virginia did not ignore the Monitor and go after the ships it knew it could damage.   Or draw the monitor out into ocean waters.
 
 
 
sunny 

Reply
 Message 4 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname-TinCanSent: 10/12/2003 6:12 PM
 
That's an excellent point Sunny. Why didn't the Virginia just ignore the Monitor and go about destroying the Union fleet?

Reply
 Message 5 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMOREREPETESSent: 10/12/2003 7:20 PM

Saturday, March 8, 1862

The following is taken from Catesby ap Roger Jones's (Executive Officer of the CSS Virginia) publication for the Southern Historical Society, October, 1874. [Mabry]


The frigates Congress and Cumberland temptingly invited an attack. It was fixed for Thursday night, March 6th, 1862; the pilots, of whom there were five, having been previously consulted. The sides were slushed, supposing that it would increase the tendency of the projectiles to glance. All preparations were made, including lights at obstructions. After dark the pilots declared that they could not pilot the ship during the night. They had a high sense of their responsibility. In justice to them it should be stated that it was not easy to pilot a vessel of our great draft under favorable circumstances, and that the difficulties were much increased by the absence of lights, buoys, etc., to which they had been accustomed.

The attack was postponed to Saturday, March 8th, 1862. The weather was favorable. We left the Navy Yard at 11 A. M., against the last half of the flood tide, steamed down the river past our batteries, through the obstructions, across Hampton Roads, to the mouth of James River, where off Newport News lay at anchor the frigates Cumberland and Congress, protected by strong batteries and gunboats. The action commenced about 3 P. M. by our firing the bow gun[2] at the Cumberland, less than a mile distant. A powerful fire was immediately concentrated upon us from all the batteries afloat and ashore. The frigates Minnesota, Roanoke and St. Lawrence, with other vessels, were seen coming from Old Point. We fired at the Congress on passing, but continued to head directly for the Cumberland, which vessel we had determined to run into, and in less than fifteen minutes from the firing of the first gun we rammed her just forward of the starboard fore-chains. There were heavy spars about her bows, probably to ward off torpedoes, through which we had to break before reaching the side of the ship. The noise of crashing timbers were distinctly heard above the din of battle. There was no sign of the hole above water. It must have been large, as the ship soon commenced to careen. The shock to us on striking was slight. We immediately backed the engines. The blow was not repeated. We here lost the prow, and had the stem slightly twisted. The Cumberland[3] fought her guns gallantly as long as they were above water. She went down bravely, with her colors flying. She went down bravely, with her colors flying. One of her shells struck the sill[E8] of the bow-port and exploded; the fragments killed two and wounded a number. Our after nine-inch gun was loaded and ready for firing, when its muzzle was struck by a shell, which broke it off and fired the gun. Another gun also had its muzzle shot off; it was broken so short that at each subsequent discharge its port was set on fire. The damage to the armor was slight. Their fire appeared to have been aimed at our ports. Had it been concentrated at the water-line we would have been seriously hurt, if not sunk. Owing to the ebb tide and our great draft we could not close with the Congress without first going up stream and then turning, which was a tedious operation, besides subjecting us twice to the full fire of the batteries, some of which we silenced.

We were accompanied from the yard by the gunboats Beaufort, Lieutenant-Commander W. H. Parker, and Raleigh, Lieutenant-Commander J. W. Alexander. As soon as the firing was heard up James River, the Patrick Henry, Commander John R. Tucker, Jamestown, Lieutenant-Commander J. N. Barney, and the gunboat Teaser, Lieutenant-Commander W. A. Webb, under command of Captain John R. Tucker, stood down the river, joining us about four o'clock. All these vessels were gallantly fought and handled, and rendered valuable and effective service.

The prisoners from the Congress state that when on [board[E9]] that ship it was seen that we were standing up the river, that three cheers were given under the impression that we had quit the fight. They were soon undeceived. When they saw us heading down stream, fearing the fate of the Cumberland, they slipped their cables, made sail, and ran ashore bows on. We took a position off her quarter, about two cables' length distant, and opened a deliberate fire. Very few of her guns bore on us, and they were soon disabled. The other batteries continued to play on us, as did the Minnesota, then aground about one and one-half miles off. The St. Lawrence also opened on us shortly afterwards[E10]. There was great havoc on board the Congress. She was several times on fire. Her gallant commander, Lieutenant Joseph B. Smith, was struck in the breast by the fragment of a shell and instantly killed.[4] The carnage was frightful. Nothing remained but to strike their colors, which they did. They hoisted the white flag, half-masted, at the main and at the spanker gaff. The Beaufort and the Raleigh were ordered to burn her. They went alongside and received[E11] several of her officers and some twenty of her men at prisoners. The officers urgently asked permission to assist their wounded out of the ship. It was granted. They did not return. A sharp fire of musketry from the shore killed some of the prisoners and forced the tugs to leave. A boat was sent from the Virginia to burn her, covered by the Teaser. A fire was opened on them from the shore, and also from the Congress, with both of her white flags flying, wounding Lieutenant Minor and others. We replied to this outrage upon the usages of civilized warfare by reopening on the Congress with hot shot and incendiary shell. Her crew escaped by boats, as did that of the Cumberland. Canister and grape would have prevented it; but in neither case was any attempt made to stop them, though it has been otherwise stated, possibly from our firing on the shore or at the Congress.

We remained near the Congress to prevent her recapture. Had she been retaken, it might have been said that the flag officer permitted it, knowing that his brother[5] was an officer of that vessel.

The Patrick Henry received a shot from the shore in one of her boilers and had to be towed out of the fight; she, however, soon returned and was again hotly engaged.[E13]

A distant and unsatisfactory fire was at times had at the Minnesota. The gunboats also engaged her. We fired canister and grape occasionally in reply to musketry from the shore, which had become annoying.

About this time the flag-officer was badly wounded by a rifle ball, and had to be carried below. His bold bearing[E14] and intrepid conduct won the admiration of all on board. The executive and ordnance officer, Lieutenant Catesby ap R. Jones, succeeded to the command.

The action continued until dusk, when we were forced to seek an anchorage. The Congress was riddled and on fire. A transport steamer was blown up. A schooner was sunk and another captured. We had to leave without [making[E15]] a serious attack on the Minnesota, though we fired on her as we passed on the other side of the Middle Ground, and also at the St. Lawrence.[6] The latter [frigate[E16]] fired at us by broadside, not a bad plan for small calibres against ironclads, if concentrated. It was too dark to aim well. We anchored off our batteries at Sewell Point. The squadron followed.

The Congress[7] continued to burn; "she illuminated the heavens, and varied the scene by the firing of her own guns and the flight of her balls through the air," until shortly after midnight, "when her magazine exploded, and a column of burning matter appeared high in the air, to be followed by the stillness of death" (extract from report of General Mansfield, U. S. A.) One of the pilots chanced, about 11 P. M., to be looking in the direction of the Congress when there passed a strange-looking craft, brought out in bold relief by the brilliant light of the burning ship, which he at once proclaimed to be the Ericsson. We were therefore not surprised in the morning to see the Monitor at anchor near the Minnesota. The latter ship was still aground. Some delay occurred from sending our wounded out of the ship; we had but one serviceable boat left. Admiral Buchanan was landed at Sewell Point.


[2] It killed and wounded ten men at the after pivot gun of the Cumberland. The second shot from the same gun killed and wounded twelve men at her forward pivot gun. Lieutenant Charles C. Simms pointed and fired the gun.[E7]

[3] She was a sailing frigate of 1,716 tons, mounting two ten-inch pivots and twenty-two nine-inch guns. Her crew numbered 376; her loss in killed and wounded was 121.

[4] His sword was sent by flag of truce to his father, Admiral Joseph Smith.

[5] One of the sad attendants of civil war--divided families--was here illustrated. The flag-officer's brother was paymaster of the Congress. The first and second lieutenants had each a brother in the United States army. The father of the fourth lieutenant was also in the United States army. The father of one of the midshipmen was in the United States navy.[E12]

[6] A sailing frigate of fifty guns and 1,726 tons.

[7] A sailing frigate of 1,867 tons, mounting 50 guns. She had a crew of 434 of whom 120 killed and missing.


Transcription Notes:

[E7] Footnotes 2 and 3 (as numbered here) are swapped in the United Service version.

[E8] "still" in the United Service version.

[E9] "board" in the United Service version, omitted in the Mabry version.

[E10] "after" in the United Service version, "afterwards" in the Mabry version.

[E11] "secured" in the United Service version, "received" in the Mabry version.

[E12] Mabry marked this footnote but omitted the text for it. The text here is taken from the United Service version.

[E13] This paragraph was missing in the United Service version.

[E14] "daring" in the United Service version, "bearing" in the Mabry version.

[E15] "making" is inserted here in the United Service version.

[E16] "frigate" is inserted here in the United Service version.


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Copyright 1996-1997 by Mabry Tyson <CSOBJ occur="43" w="357" h="19" t="Component" csref="../../../css-va.data/Components/tysonmail.html"> language=Javascript type=text/javascript> </SCRIPT> [email protected] <NOSCRIPT> (Tyson@CSSVirginia.org) </NOSCRIPT></CSOBJ>
Page Last Updated: <CSOBJ w="69" h="12" t="DateTime" format="MedDate" region="0">Sat, Mar 9, 2002</CSOBJ>

After the Battle of the Ironclads

The following is taken from Catesby ap Roger Jones's (Executive Officer of the CSS Virginia) publication for the Southern Historical Society, October, 1874. [Mabry]

See also Chief Engineer H. A. Ramsay's article.

Also see "The Fate of the CSS Virginia".


The ship was docked; a prow of steel and wrought iron put on, and a course of two-inch iron on the hull below the roof extending in length 180 feet. Want of time and material prevented its completion. The damage to the armor was repaired; wrought-iron port shutters were fitted, etc. The rifle guns were supplied with bolts of wrought and chilled iron. The ship was brought a foot[E1] deeper in the water, making her draft twenty-three feet.

Commodore Josiah Tatnall[E2] relieved Admiral Buchanan in command. On the 11th of April he took the Virginia down to Hampton Roads, expecting to have a desperate encounter with the Monitor. Greatly to our surprise, the Monitor refused to fight us. She closely hugged the shore under the guns of the fort, with her steam up. Hoping to provoke her to come out, the Jamestown[10] was sent in, and captured several prizes, but the Monitor would not budge. It was proposed to take the vessel to the York River, but it was decided in Richmond that she should stay near Norfolk for its protection.

Commodore Tatnall commanded the Virginia forty-five days, of which time there were only thirteen days she was not in dock or in the hands of the Navy Yard. Yet he succeeded in impressing the enemy that we were ready for active service. It was evident that the enemy very much over-rated our power and efficiency.[11] The South also had the same exaggerated idea of the vessel.

On the eighth of May a squadron, including the Monitor, bombarded our batteries at Sewell Point. We immediately left the yard for the Roads. As we drew near, the Monitor and her consorts ceased bombarding, and retreated under the guns of the fort, keeping beyond the range of our guns. Men-of-war from below the forts, and vessels expressly fitted for running us down, joined the other vessels between the forts. It looked as if the fleet was about to make a fierce onslaught upon us. But we were gain to be disappointed. The Monitor and the other vessels did not venture to meet us, although we advanced until projectiles from the Rip Raps fell more than half a mile beyond us. Our object, however, was accomplished; we had put an end to the bombardment, and we returned to our buoy.

Norfolk was evacuated on the 10th of May. In order that the ship might be carried up the James River, we commenced to lighten her, but ceased on the pilots saying that they could not take her up. Her shield was then out of water; we were not in fighting condition. We therefore ran her ashore in the bight of Craney Island, landed the crew and set the vessel on fire. The magazine exploded about half-past four on the morning of the 11th of May, 1862. The crew arrived at Drury's Bluff the next day, and assisted in defeating the Monitor, Galena and other vessels on the 15th of May.[E3]

Commander Tatnall was tried by court-martial for destroying the Virginia, an was "honorably acquitted" of all the charges. The court stated the facts and their motives for acquitting him. Some of them are as follows: "That after the evacuation of Norfolk, Westover on James River, became the most suitable place for her to occupy; that while in the act of lightening her for the purpose of taking her up to that point, the pilots for the first time declared their inability to take her up. * * * That when lightened she was made vulnerable to the attacks of the enemy. * * * The only alternative, in the opinion of the court, was to abandon and burn the ship then and there, which, in the judgment of the court, was deliberately and wisely done."


[10] French and English men-of-war were present. The latter cheered our gunboat as she passed with the prize.

[11] Some of the Northern papers estimated her to be equivalent to any army corps.


Transcription notes:

[E1] Mabry has "four feet", apparently incorrectly, while the United Service version has "a foot".

[E2] Correctly spelled as "Tattnall".

[E3] See the article in America's Civil War, Nov. 1997 and Jan. 2003. John F. Mackie, US Marine Corporal aboard the USS Galena; Charles Kenyon, a fireman aboard the USS Galena; and Jeremiah Regan, a Quartermaster aboard the USS Galena, were given a Medal of Honor for the battle at Drewry's Bluff, 15 May 1862.


General Josiah Gorges, CSA, wrote in his The Civil War Diary of General Josiah Gorges:

"No one event of the war, not even the disaster of Fort Donelson, created such a profound sensation as the destruction of this noble ship [CSS Virginia]. It was intended to bring her up the James River as far as her draught would permit after the evacuation of Norfolk. For this purpose she was lightened by throwing her coal overboard; but after all had been taken out she could not pass the bar at the mouth of James River. She was now in a condition nearly defenceless. Her iron sheathing had come up to the water line, and even above it, and her fuel was gone; nothing was left but to blow her up, which was done with 36,000 pounds of powder on board. It was indeed a fearful blunder, and one which came very near being fatal to us. There was nothing now to prevent the gunboats from reaching Richmond. The battery at Drury's Bluff had but three guns mounted; the obstructions were wholly incomplete, and the enemy could have made their way right up to this city. Fortunately they waited until a week after her destruction before making the attempt. The obstructions were completed, and when they did make the attempt on the 17th of May they were signally defeated. It was the turning point in our fortunes."


<CSOBJ occur="55" w="106" h="30" t="Component" csref="../../../css-va.data/Components/icontag.html">CSS Virginia</CSOBJ>
Copyright 1996-2003 by Mabry Tyson <CSOBJ occur="62" w="426" h="27" t="Component" csref="../../../css-va.data/Components/tysonmail.html"> language=Javascript type=text/javascript> </SCRIPT> [email protected] <NOSCRIPT> (Tyson@CSSVirginia.org) </NOSCRIPT></CSOBJ>
Page Last Updated: <CSOBJ w="86" h="16" t="DateTime" format="MedDate" region="0">Sun, Feb 9, 2003</CSOBJ>


Reply
 Message 6 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameThriftmeister2Sent: 12/21/2003 5:15 AM
At the Mariner's museum in Newport News, VA you can see parts of the Monitor.
The CSS Virginia was aground in very shallow water not far from Hampton roads (don't know if above water or just below it) until after WWII where you could go and actually see it which many people did and took little pieces of it with them when they left.Companies made these little pieces in to small medallions for advertising purposes and gave to customers. Eventually the Virginia was picked over until there was nothing left of it. Today it lives on in the form of many little medallions which are now valuable pieces of history. I saw one a gentleman had who was helping with the Monitor display at the museum.
The museum also has a few articles that were aboard the titanic.
You can view a share of stock in IMM which owned the White Star Line which owned the Titanic at         http://www.thriftmeister.com/scripo.htm
and read a brief history of the White Star Line 
 

Reply
 Message 7 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamevicbc6Sent: 1/4/2004 10:53 PM
CSS Virgina could have gone for the fleet but USS
Monitor interposed itself between her and the forces on station. Monitor dod little more than dent Virgina
& vice versa . What we a century and a half later have to remember is that this was the frst time 2 ironclads had clashed and both were really experimental designs, which prooooooved good designs give the number of similar vessels built between 1862 & 1865

Reply
 Message 8 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFenian_soldierSent: 10/26/2004 3:58 PM
but to answer your question, the confederates, pulled out of the area when the brave boys of the union army took control of the area by land, the confederates burned the CSS Virginia, and scuttle her to help slow the union adavnce on the james river. now this wasn't the end of the fight between the monitor and merrimac, those two crews would again face each other on the james river, guns and crew of the Virginia where placed at a bend in the river on land and soon engaged the monitor once more, resulting in the monitor falling back, because it couldn't elavate it's gun that high, to engage the crew.  Legionnaire

Reply
 Message 9 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFenian_soldierSent: 10/26/2004 6:09 PM
and thriftmeister, I was there when they brought the turret back, I was one of the honor escorts that escorted the turret from the james river to the museum. and I was there in Union Blues for the Ground breaking ceremony last weekend. I support the museum, with reenactors when they do thier living history. Legionnaire

Reply
 Message 10 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman10771Sent: 12/1/2005 5:13 PM
Gentlemen
 
I read a fascinating book by a well known American writer called Nelson about the naval war mainly around Chesapeake Bay. It was also set around the new Orleans battles.
 
It featured the armament and propulsion of a lot of these ship; the rifled Parrot shell-gun, the 32 pounder smoothbores, Starr percussion revolvers, etc.
 
Amazing how much new technology was crammed into such a short period, but of course, neither side could have done so well without British products.
 
Again, we take a bow as we remember  how you begged us to help you develop steam propulsion, and the screw and paddle configurations. And successful evasions of the Colt and Rollin White pistol patents.
 
Cheers
Peter

Reply
 Message 11 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknametommytalldogSent: 12/1/2005 6:55 PM
Flash, could you help us with our crumpets and marmalade now?

T-Dog

Reply
 Message 12 of 12 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman10771Sent: 12/2/2005 12:54 PM
Talldog
I did promote you to TopDog on another site earlier today, but I can see your hubris cannot be restrained, so back to Talldog you go.I also note you are a pervert. When I emigrated to England my masters told me  you can always tell a bent person because he joins the US police and eats marmalade with his crumpets, while playing with his black talons.
So your trick question is answered.
Cheers
Peter the Pure.
 

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