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Discussions : human evolution
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 Message 1 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«  (Original Message)Sent: 3/14/2004 8:11 AM
What does evolution mean to you?... a genetic.... social... or maybe spiritual change in yourself or mankind in general? What is it that will be the next cycle of mankind? It is no longer a matter of the strongest survive or nature culling the human herd... we somewhat have evolved beyond those but if so... then whats next?


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 Message 2 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLacedra1Sent: 3/15/2004 12:05 AM
 
This is something close to my heart Red. Is evolution just a human condition, or does it apply to all life forms?In the last couple of years Iv'e been interested in theoretical physics. Does consciousness go all the way down.Are we as humans more aware,more alive than other forms of life? Are we more valuable because we believe that we are a higher form of life?Evolution when talking in terms of strongest survive ,the insects have us beat.If we are talkng in terms of intelligence thats subjective.Mankind lives under the supposition that we are ordained to rule other forms of life. My therory is that life exist as one.No one form of life more superior than another.All life is made of matter,and energy,all coexist in a universe designed in perfection. No evil,thats subjective,no good,thats subjective.I can go deeply into this subject if anyone is interested.To answer your question. Mankind is no more important in the universe than any other form of life. It's neither spiritual,genetic ,or social. In my opinion.

 

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 Message 3 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLacedra1Sent: 3/15/2004 12:25 AM
I cut off my train of thought to soon. Evolution is the natural process of  matter and energy changing at rapid unseen rates. It's not social,or genetic.It's the natural,chaotic process of life itself.

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 Message 4 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«Sent: 3/15/2004 2:35 AM
Okay, how about if we try this road of supposition... If mankind can recognize its place in the Web of Life as an equal to flora and fauna (in the spirit of Oneness) and eradicate the less appealing traits of humanity... such as murder, abuse and poverty.... would this be considered the next evolution of man? Or is it a social condition?
 
Part 2 :) What about spiritual evolution?.... Does it truly exist (in your opinion) or is it a fabrication of mankinds need to Believe in 'something more, something better' ?
 

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 Message 5 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameWisdomsloveSent: 3/15/2004 3:58 AM
Well, young women are getting bigger breasts because of hormones to make milk cows produce more milk and have bigger tits. Accident, I think not. The Japanese are becoming tall, as well as many other peoples because of growth hormones in chicken and other meats. Accident, I think not. Worldwide we're all being dumbed down and de-sensitized by alluminum oxide, chlorine, floride, and who knows what else. Accident, I think not. Supposedly all the electric power cables hanging all over  our heads has a negative spiritual effect on mankind as well according to some. Television and music media corporate empires now control completely our social and cultural evolution and fashions. The human race isn't evolving or gaining any true enlightenment and freedom, its being more deeply and completely enslaved than ever before. Our potentials are slowly being squashed into non-existance. Boy have I been depressed lately, probably what is inspiring this depressing view. But still, its food for thought. Depression does serve a usefull purpose, it lets us know that we aren't on the right track in life.

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 Message 6 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknameimbas1Sent: 3/15/2004 2:08 PM
Accident? Perhaps not, Evolution though? Hardly. Merely physical cause and effect. History is full of cases like these where because of a certain diet or lifestyle regime, the parties affected were larger, lived longer, were smaller, or lived less. Regardless, mankind on it's own returns to a basic form. Physical evolution if it exists, takes a long time and requires multiple mutations that have to live and breed and make it by a lot of failsafes in the body in order to continue the line. Mutations are not evolution. We can't say that a beagle is the evolution of a wolf. The beagle is a mutation of a wolf. If you take some time to read Greek, Roman, early texts, it soon strikes you that these people while technologically different were just as we are today basically. If you could, you could converse with these 3000 year old people and find them no less intelligent than yourself in basic ability. And if the technology was explained to them, I have no doubts they would understand it. So as far as Physical evolution goes, I am still unsure of how and when modern man became modern man. And as wierd as it sounds, I tend to think there may have been some sort of alien crossbreeding that spured it, whether that was purely spiritual, or physical, I am also unsure of.
 
Spiritual evolution though, I do believe in. It seems to be only a small percentage of people that question the basic religions of their surroundings. 99 percent are content to believe whatever they were raised with. Some lesser percent feel the need to continue any spiritual consideration after reaching adulthood, except in the basic historical sense of passing their religions to their children. So, I tend to believe that humans are not at equal levels in spiritual evolution. It's a tough question though because am I, or are we, any better for our curiousity? It certainly seems a lot easier road to travel to just go on your day to day activities content in your family, or national basic religion. The curiousity that leads us to exploring alternate religions, commonalities, the unknown, the magic of elemental manipulation, also makes one more sensitive to the pain and suffering that others feel, whether they be animal, vegetative, mineral or human. It also leads to a understanding that most, if not all, of this suffering, is pretty much out of our hands. We can try to make a difference in some cases, but the difference is mostly temporary, and there is always the question of karma. Should we even try to make a difference? The basic question becomes, Is it my karma to try to make a difference, or is it their karma to feel whatever distress they are going through. The overwhelming mental overload to these types of questions lead directly to Zen, where one just accepts all as it is. I can do that only for a short while and then my curiousity pushes me out again.
 
Evolution if it exist, must exist in multiple paths, dimensions and time lines. It is more complex than I am really ready for, and I have basically decided that I will continue to pursue knowlege along multiple lines. If this leads to my evolution, so be it. I only can accept that for now, I thirst for knowlege, and in between the drudgeries of common day to day tasks, I attempt to quench that thirst. In some ways I feel that we have dodged a bullet somehow. A few years ago, around the millinium,  I felt a strong closing of circles, so to speak. A coming together of friends from past and present. Lately though, I don't feel this is as critical, and I feel more people striking out on solitary paths again. I don't know why this is.
 
As far as the consciousness of other than human go. I feel it exists, and it can be intermingled with. But I feel that the majority of these consciousnesses are on their own paths. A world foriegn to the majority of us. I think that in the distant past, the worlds were closer but as human technology increased, these worlds grew far apart and have in most case, for their own protection, become adversarial. Perhaps the ultimate evolution, will be the coming together of all these and our consciousness.

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 Message 7 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»ºRPhxº«Sent: 3/16/2004 7:49 PM
Its interesting that one may or may not simply assume that mutations are not evolutionary... I would think that if the cause was wide spread enough it would indeed become a permant part of genetics... making it an evolution of the dna (for better or worse is moot) This line of thought brings me to point out that mankind has the power to deliberately design its evolution through gene-splicing, designer babies and cellular cloning. Have we then taken the reins  from Nature?
 
As to soul evolution I believe that the more we look to our spiritual or etheral self, the greater our chances are of exceeding the limits of our knowledge and physical shells and being able to reach into the energy state that our souls exist on. Once we are able to be spiritually aware of the real forces around us, we connect on a deeper more profound level in what we term sacred. Spiritual evolution looks at being past the confines of the body, past the need for a 'spiritual emmissary' (priest, rabbi, elder etc.) through recognizing your own divine connection, and into a state of existance that allows us to know without a shadow of doubt that we are all of One.... a sacred consciousness that encompasses and saturates the Web of Life.
 
 
 

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 Message 8 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknameimbas1Sent: 3/16/2004 8:39 PM
"mankind has the power to deliberately design its evolution through gene-splicing, designer babies and cellular cloning. Have we then taken the reins  from Nature?"
 
This is a bad bad thing in my opinion. What will inevitably happen is that someone or some group will define what should be the "perfect" human. And ultimately, this definition could come under the control of governments. Many of the people that have gone down in history as great for one reason or another would probably not been in the definition of "perfect".  This ability to clone, splice etc., is the ultimate Pandora's box. It is the variety of a life force that guarentee's it's survival ability. This taking the reins from nature is a prededication to only the physical aspect of life and is possibly akin to taking the reins of the horse from the driver but not knowing where to steer the horse while riding a very dangerous path.
 
 

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 Message 9 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknameimbas1Sent: 3/16/2004 8:51 PM
Oh, yes you're right about mutations. I didn't read that through. What I mean is that mutations fall into seperate groups I guess. Those that are evolutionary and those that aren't. Mnipulated mutations such as dog breeding or proteins in milk, don't affect the origional species. Wolves are not changed because of Pekinese. Also, if the wolf evolves, the Pekinese is not affected. I suppose that there is probably a range, +/- that man can affect a mutation without causing death.
 
But, if North America, by virtue of genetic mutation of it's food sources, creates generations of stronger bigger humans who through their aggression manage to destroy the weaker countries, is that evolution? If the mutated species kills off the origional species, is that evolution?

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 Message 10 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLacedra1Sent: 3/16/2004 10:26 PM
 "Have we then taken the reins  from Nature? Mankind has the power to deliberately design its evolution through gene-splicing, designer babies and cellular cloning. This is a bad bad thing in my opinion.
 Okay, how about if we try this road of supposition... If mankind can recognize its place in the Web of Life as an equal to flora and fauna (in the spirit of Oneness) and eradicate the less appealing traits of humanity... such as murder, abuse and poverty.... would this be considered the next evolution of man? 
If the mutated species kills off the original species, is that evolution?"
 
My opinion is that nature works as it wills. If man can think it, then it exist. Mankind can design because nature allows it ,or wills it. Nothing bad, it just is.
What is less appealing? Starvation, abuse, and poverty are found throughout all forms of life. It is subjective opinion that makes it bad or evil.  Dogs will eat their puppies. It offends us, but is it unnatural, or does it just violate our senses? The web of life just is. We are taught in different cultures what's right or wrong. It varies from man to man. Physiology can play a part in mental illness. People will murder, have sex with children, a wide variety of things that man would call evil. My theory is that a scientific physical imbalance is present in most if not all cases, because of chaos. Religion would call it evil, but its very much present in all of nature, and a wide range of species. Mankind is no more evolved than any other form of life. It's all just a natural process of life, and death. The universe at work. It's CHAOTIC, but normal. We as humans attach labels to everything. Some say that they want a utopian society. Well, how would you know it's utopian? What we term bad and good walk hand in hand. You would not recognize one without the other. This I know seems a simple explanation for all that's wrong in the world, but what if it's not wrong, what if it's perfection? I'm not saying that we shouldn't right what we see as injustice. I'm not saying don't feed the poor. I just feel I should tread carefully. Life is perfection, as is death. From all death, life is born. I'm no more entitled because I'm a human, than any other being that exist in the universe with me. Only society, or religion tells me I'm more devine.
Whats a mutation? Again thats an individual judgement  in my opinion. How is gene splicing bad? That very well could be what we are evolving to. A higher, smarter, more compassionate being. This very well could be what the devine universal plan is.
Aye?
Opinion and debate are always fun.
 

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 Message 11 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»ºRPhxº«Sent: 3/17/2004 1:56 AM
I definitely agree that Life is life... but just as everyday we draw breathe, we interact with it and change it. Granted, how we see it change is viewed through our ego and therefore we make a judgement as to whether it is good or bad. Whatever happens, happens from the events that preceded it, thats an everyday reality. The neat thing is that as cognitive beings we can look ahead, down the length potential futures and choose... consciously choose where our evolution can go. Mind you, trying to figure in the genius of humanity with the inarguable forces of nature into our (subjective) plans for the future makes me very curious :) Its my opinion though that our futures really do hinge on our awareness of the world we live in. One of the greater misfortunes was the seperation of man's consciousness from nature.
 
  

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 Message 12 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameWisdomsloveSent: 3/17/2004 3:21 AM
I think evolution is more under the control of will power, knowledge, and faith rather than accidental mutation. I also think that higher realised consciousnesses can influence the evolution of others. Well, actually, I know so. If a population as a whole believes certain physical traits are neccessary than that population will eventually realise those physical traits for themselves. Creator and Manipulater consciousnesses play with things all the time.

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 Message 13 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname£ÔRÐ×ß4ÐG3R�?/nobr>Sent: 3/24/2004 4:56 AM
All species constantly mutate into different forms. Humanity follows this same path both genetically and spiritually. Imo the human species has physically and spiritually morphed into an unstable form since the advent of the Abrahamic fanatic cults as 'world religions'. I think the species will face a trial by fire unlike anything in history soon and the result will be either a radically different new and improved version of humanity or even extinction if the challenge to adapt isn't met.
 
                                                         -L.B.

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 Message 14 of 14 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameThe_Wolf-HoundSent: 4/4/2004 5:54 PM
I'm surprised that no one has even briefly mentionned the Indigo children. I'm not going to mention anything about them, but if you want proof of the 'next step of human evolution', there's the topic you should search for.
 
Tadhg Laoch

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