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Discussions : Drum Work [Journeying]
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 Message 1 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«  (Original Message)Sent: 9/24/2004 5:06 PM
I've relocated this part from the other drum thread ...
 
 
From: »®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«                                                Sent: 9/20/2004 2:37 PM

Well the exploration into drumming continues...
 
Recently I aquired a shamanic drumming cd one journey is 15 minutes the other 30. Well I decided that after sitting on my bed and drumming on my small native drum that I would pop it in the cd and give it a listen.
 
I lit my altar candle and some abramelin incense, blindfolded myself to block out the light and any distractions ... It started with a heartbeat, then the tempo changed creating a kind of vibration that hummed along my skin, I had the impression that not only was my physical body reacting to this but so was my spiritual one. The sound beats its way into you then out again, it almost felt as if I was physically pulsing to the beat, although I know full well I was laying stationary.
 
Stray thoughts floated up and were literally fragmented by the sound, there was nothing but the drum... no thoughts, worries or distractions could withstand that insistant and steady pounding. In my minds eye, a tree apppeared and opened before me, I moved into its dark opening and found myself in a sort of carved tunnel moving quickly ...The impression of something big and dark slid up behind me and flowed over my head and away. Winged things fluttered around me in the dark ... not bats, but some kind of bird. I stopped moving and grew aware of a lessening of the dark, shades of shadow moved in front of me and became cats... some sitting others moving towards me and flowing past me like I was a rock in a stream.
 
I can't remember what happened after that, only that I became aware of a new tempo... then shortly after that I heard the 4 beat indicator that the drumming was near its end and that it was time to return. I came back to my now buzzing body and listened to the remaining beats. A heavy rattle sounded and seemed to shake my whole body... the way a dog shakes water off its fur. It was both electrifying and almost painful.
 
I took my time removing the blindfold, then tried to record my experience the best I could. I can still hear the drums in my head, and my head hurts now with a slightly hungover achey feeling. I'm tired ... that 15 minutes feels like it lasted hours.
 
I am going to continue exploring this avenue, I do wish however that there was someone of experience nearby that could monitor or mentor this journey. lol One of the drawbacks to working solo is that you don't have a group experience to draw on and observe, and sometimes the unexpected is unsettling.
 
Is there anyone in Betwixt that can add any insights to the art of drum journeying?
 


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 Message 2 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«Sent: 9/24/2004 5:06 PM
 
Sounds like a fantastic experience Miss Red, a definate Journey...
 
But to where, I wonder?
 
It sounds to me that you journeyed to the Lower World, that is where Animal spirits reside, and they were clearly present in this experience. But, it's strange that you didn't go downward (to the LOWER World). It's possible that you journeyed to the Middle World, which is indicated by your straight-forward walking. 
 
I'm intrigued by the thing that slid over you. I wonder what that could be... anyone else have any thoughts?
 
 

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 Message 3 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«Sent: 9/24/2004 5:07 PM
 
Hiya Fox,
 
I can't really say that I moved up or down, if anything I would say I moved along a serpentine corrider ... that kind of curving sensation. And although I expected to come out somewhere I never did ... was that because I needed more time or was it because it happened as it was supposed to, I'm not sure. I was going to do it again tonight, but I'm not on an even keel today and dealing with some emotional issues which makes me cautious about going under. So... a raincheck for tomorrow afternoon.
 
As to what the thing is that slid over me... again, I don't know. However, I have encountered something similar once before, except the previous occassion felt more like tendrils or snakes ... this one was big and heavy ... I felt it slid past my head then it was gone onward.
 
The birds I can almost rationalize as Hawk is my totem... but the cats mystify me... and there were so many!
 
Thank you for posting, I appreciate having a chance to discuss this and maybe find some insight into the experience. I realize that we all have different experiences and perceptions, but often a discussion table will bring new ideas or hidden meanings to the surface.
 
Blessings,
Red

 


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 Message 4 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«Sent: 9/24/2004 5:08 PM
 
Sounds very interesting Red and definitely worth exploring more!!  I wish I knew more and wish I knew more native peoples to ask.
 
Devine

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 Message 5 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«Sent: 9/24/2004 5:10 PM
Drum Path

 

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 Message 6 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«Sent: 9/24/2004 5:53 PM
Yesterday I got another chance to explore the inner realms of drum journeying, and although the interest seems limited I'm hoping someone with long practice in trance work may weigh in on this discussion ...
 
I lit my altar candle, incense and smudged then got comfortable on the bed with my blindfold in place ... took a few cleansing breaths and relaxed.
 
I found myself listening very closely to the drum this time ... instead of riding it into the depths, I could feel it in a new way. Slowly I became aware that my inner Self was moving to the beat while my body remained motionless. I did experience a pins and needles effect up and down my body, which faded after a few minutes.
 
In the dark (its always dark it seems) I could see the drum beat ... a lot of stray thoughts at first as I watched and listened to the beat, but they kind of just slipped away as I became aware of watching a shape dance to the drum. It was human in shape, jumping, spinning and dancing in a circle (reminded me of native dancing) as I watched a rune faded in from the dark and the figure danced around that. But before the rune appearred I found myself dancing as well... first me then I'd watch, then I'd dance... back and forth but not together ... it was while I was watching that the rune appeared. Off in the dark I could make out the darker shape of a 4 sided dagger pointing downward and a bird.
 
The next part is odd ... I was watching things unfold when I felt a weight across my eyes. The same sensation one gets when someone lays their hand gently but firmly over your eyes, except it had a buzzing quality that startled me. It actually pulled me straight back to the 'here & now' and my eyes flipped one under the blindfold and my body drew a long shuddering breath. At the same time the top of my head started buzzing, it felt like I was wearing an electrical skullcap, a tight fitting sensation that buzzed so hard I should have felt it in my teeth.  I didn't quite panic, but I was startled enough to reach for my head, I fully expected to actually feel something on me.
 
That pretty much concludes that session, I was to unsettled to relax for a longer one,  and was to distracted to make myself cooperate.  Later last night I was inspired to paint both my sessions. The first is Drum Path, the second Transformation .... although I had intended to paint the single dancer in various positions, the painting morphed into the triad that you see here ... and somehow it just feels right.
 

 

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 Message 7 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLeilaOfTheWoodsSent: 9/30/2004 8:47 AM
I have done drum journeying several times and it seems no one time is the same as another. I thought to share one experience I had. It was one of my first few times using drums in this way.
 
I had come across a CD called Thunder Drums and knew it would be a good one to use for journeying. So, I lit some incense, drew the curtains, started the CD playing and closing my eyes, settled into meditation. (It was about 4 PM)
 
My heart seemed to beat in unison with the drums. I saw nothing but darkness but it was a warm and comforting darkness. I had the sense I was flying in it. Flying blind. I also had the sense of not being alone in my flight. The drums seemed further and further away but still their beat and the beat of my heart seemed like one and the same. So I just continued to go with it.
 
I had no sense of time but at some point the darkness began to change. It seemed tangibly filling with grief. It completely overwhelmed me the sense of it was so palpable. I will not say I heard crying audibly but weeping I did hear. Not just the sound of one but many. My mind did not understand the cause of the grief or the crying but in this place, wherever it was, I could not stop myself from crying, too. Crying as though I would never stop.
 
At some point I opened my eyes. My cheeks were wet with tears.  I was exhausted.  What had happened to me, I wondered? In fact I still wonder. I looked at my watch and it was 5:20 PM.
 
5:20 PM, September 10, 2001
 
I have to date only shared  this experience with one other person and I guess because I have yet to fully understand it myself.
 
Leila

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 Message 8 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«Sent: 10/1/2004 6:45 AM
Bringing this part of the conversation over from Pagan Pulse ...
 
From: »®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«  (Original Message) Sent: 9/25/2004 9:31 AM

I'm currenting exploring drum journeying and trance work, its taken me a long time to drop the necessary walls and be even remotely successful ... but because I work and learn on my own I have questions and concerns that reading material hasn't or can't answer.
 
Is there anyone here that can offer insights or maybe explainations? I won't bore you with the details unless I get a response :o)
 
Blessings,
Red
    

 
Red Phoenix
 
Well, have never been active in trancing through drum work...however, hearing drums on some sites that have gone to, can go right into it...but then can trance at will....What are some of your questions regarding it, maybe can help in that area...I'm a Channeler and Medium, also do vision work...or some call it journeying too.  Its the 'feel' of the trance you need to get accustomed to so that you can enter the state at will.  Trancing is an area have been wanting to start teaching on my site, so maybe we can help one another here.
 
Blessings,
 LIGHT
 


From: ShadoWoman�?Sent: 9/26/2004 10:29 PM

Red,
 
This is a toughie...if it is an inner journey why should there be physical manifestations?  Inner and outer are not separate from each other...we only believe them to be.
 
I simply don't have the scientific mind to explain phenomena like this.  I've had experiences myself that have made me wonder if I was only making it up...knowing full well that I didn't.  Eventually you just learn that you don't need to validate your experiences...to do so is only for your own reassurance.  But why do you need reassuring that what you experience is or isn't real?  Or better yet...why question it at all?
 
Learn to ride out the experiences and learn to discern your fear of the unknown from things that should truly be feared and trust yourself.  It is very likely as long as you keep yourself well-protected that you'll not come across anything truly harmful.  But even in trance drumming, if you're leaving yourself open without protection, you'll draw all sorts of energetic beings to you....from the simply curious, to benevolent, to downright nasty.
 
I dream and I've had physical manifestations from things I've dreamed...such as being bitten by an albino snake in dream only to wake and find my wrist swollen from an actual bite. 
 
Dreaming is where all my work is done and my field of protection is very strong on its own, but when I first moved into the house I'm living in now there were dark dark energies here.  At one point I was dream-stalked.  I've never never had that happen before and I had to call on intervention to stop it.
 
Anyway..nuff rambles...inner is not separate from outer. 
 
Shad~

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 Message 9 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«Sent: 10/1/2004 6:47 AM
 
From: »®ed«·»Ph¤enïX« Sent: 9/27/2004 12:28 AM
 

Hi Shado
 
Eventually you just learn that you don't need to validate your experiences...to do so is only for your own reassurance.  But why do you need reassuring that what you experience is or isn't real?  Or better yet...why question it at all? Its not validation that I'm seeking, its a simple curiousity of learning... I don't accept everything as it first appears, whether thats a fault or not is debatable but its my nature. However, I readily admit that I am new to trance drumming, and am quite surprised at the quality of the energy. All I know about this method is what I have read and studied, and it still didn't entirely prepare me for the experience.
 
I understand what you mean about 'riding them out' lol... actually I tend to go into these explorations with rather loose expectations, that way I can accept what comes as I see it untainted by anothers 'say so'. I fully intend to continue my explorations into trance drumming, and I think that each experience will be unique to me. However, I have to admit that having experienced this other physical manifestation has made me more leary and maybe a tad more guarded. And that is what has prompted me to seek feedback on the events ... I'm curious to know if the boundries between inner and outer realms are always blurred or are manifestations like my own something that happens but just not often enough to be concerned with.
 
Anyways, I throughly enjoy learning and working on my own, but there are times when book learning isn't enough and I appreciate the chance to discuss these things  with other interested or experienced people.
 
Blessings,
Red
 

 
From: ShadoWoman�?Sent: 9/27/2004 8:33 AM
 

Ya know what they say...curiosity killed the cat...lmao!  But this is why it is important to protect yourself...your feeling more guarded is good and I would suggest that you don't close yourself off because of fear of what comes in.  These are wonderful experiences...and lessons that eventually you begin to see.  Being open to them is a good thing.
 
And yes, reading is important, but it's not enough.  I'm solitary also...everything I've learned has mostly been trial and error..I only knew that I had a gift.
 
I also understand about not accepting the face-value of everything...that's my skeptical side...but once I became comfortable in that fact that what occurs is not a bad thing then things really began to manifest...in the inner and the outer.
 
Take care and have fun with this
Shad~

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 Message 10 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«Sent: 10/1/2004 6:50 AM
From: LightBearer741 Sent: 9/28/2004 7:13 PM

Red Phoenix
So sorry to be so long in answering this...came in and was going to answer, then got interrupted..problem at home, when came back on, msn wouldn't let me post...shut down twice and then and ran scandisk..sheesh!  I did get the signature before this happened and oh its beautiful too~Thank You so much
 
Reading your messages on Betwixt and in the beginning when your drumming, wanted to add here real quick that musical notes, and particularly our humming, sounds from drums too, has a vibration that can and does vibrate our energies.  Also has an effect upon the brain and other organs, including our skin, which a sensory organ.
 
Kind of like you, I go for facts too and don't take things for granted as theres a logical reason for everything.  Its good too you question things in certain areas, as well as have no 'expectations' when doing this or anything like it.  Oh expectations are hard to break.  Your experience too isn't going to be identical to someone else's either, and thats the beauty of our individuality.
 
Oh wonderful about the stray thoughts too and becoming fragmented...good focus you have!  Oh trees can take us so many different places!  Oh yes, the tunnel so many of those to travel through to different realms and dimensions....so happy you succeeded in this!  Since the tree has roots, that travel quite a distance and also connect to other roots of living things, much can be gleaned by connecting with a tree...many things taught, and the roots if you consider for a moment can be viewed somewhat like a 'tunnel'... these tunnels are connecting to others and are systems of traveling throughout the Universe.  Which you probably know...
 
Bird of course represents spirit and messages from spirit.  (Bird, the thing that slid over you, could this have been a Dragon?  Some water Dragons are huge, wingless and remind one somewhat of a snake) I mention this because you have Dragons around you...  Cats are highly psychic, highly evolved creatures...with different purrs they can send energy to chakras and body parts for healing.  Some purring is not heard by the physical human ear.  Empathic creatures as they are, they know our emotional, mental and physical states.  They are also messengers from spirit.  In meditations they can and do amplify what you receive.
 
Sounds as though you came into the body a little too quick, as your comment of shaking yourself like a dog shakes off water and electrifying and somewhat painful.  You'll adjust to this without any problems.
 
Yes, sometimes we will have headaches as our centers in the brain open more.  Since you were visualizing too, your Third Eye may have stretched some too...this does cause headaches.  The achyness and tiredness is due to the high vibratory rates or their spin in where you went, your body wasn't used to it, but it will adjust in time...sometimes too much energy all at once also causes fogginess or the slightly hung-over feeling you had.  All this is natural and part of opening, and expanding more.
 
Serpentine corrider, excellent description of some!  They do curve here and there and also connect to other tunnels, sometimes like a cross-roads.
Interesting about the human shape dancing and then your dancing, but not together...what did you sense or feel from this being?  then the Rune, dancing around it seperately ... a 4 sided dagger, haven't a clue?? Although consecrated tools yes...and 4 sided could be elements as well as seasons and foundation of some sort....bird of course is spirit and messenger of spirit...
 
aaah the weight across your eyes, like someone does .. and the buzzing quality...in your head..did you hear it with your ears physically or was the buzzing in your head...yes, the electrical skullcap and the tight fitting sensation..ok, sometimes you will feel like theres lightening going off in your head and this is centers opening and sending energy to other center points...no biggy, quite natural!  The feeling of the tight fitting sensation is the expansion within your brain and points opening, cells there being activated too! 
 
The buzzing once again is your centers opening and expanding within the brain, the psychic centers.  Anytime during this or creating the artwork did you feel tingling or pressure at the base of the skull where it connects to the neck.  In the center there is a slight indention, this is the Zeal point and center for our Creativity and connects directly to the Third Eye. 
 
Oh, you are definitely opening Girl! Ooooh so happy for you and the hand over your eyes was so strongly felt you thought if you reached for your head you would feel someone there and behind you!!!  This is one of your Guides who will help guide you through these Journeys!  We all have them and they were making themselves known to you..and you sensed them too!  So next time try and sense their energies and vibratory rate.  In fact you can go in your Mind's Eye anytime and recall parts of this, maybe you can sense their energies and get the 'feel' of them. 
 
All things in existence vibrate at a certain speed and each of us have a unique vibratory rate of speed and feel to us from one to the other.  Hope this has helped you some, and opened yourself to more questions too!  But honestly believe you are doing just GREAT! 
 
Have to run now...but will check back tomorrow!  Love it when someone starts learning new things!  Of course, know you use protection and grounding, just added that here out of habit!  Always keep a glass of water by you too, drink a glass before and after these Journeys as it will help ground you and also help with the aches, pains, headaches from opening for the energies.  Water has crystals in it that hold Light, and it heals too as well as fills you with Light.  Really enjoyed reading about your Journeys and do keep going with them!
Blessings And Love To You,
              LIGHT   
 

 
From: »®ed«·»Ph¤enïX« Sent: 9/28/2004 8:33 PM

Good Evening, Light
 
Thank you so much for such an indepth look into my experiences, and your feedback accordingly. As I've mentioned, I am still learning this amazing method of experiencing the shamanic state of consciousness. I have indeed learned over the years that we all have our own vibrational state of existance, sometimes we harmonize with others and our environment sometimes not. However I wasn't prepared for how it would affect a trance state. Yes I have meditated often, but never experienced such as this ... and I found it odd and curious. It was so obvious to me that I would have thought that it could be heard by anyone else, lol
 
As far as expectations go ... well I try to keep them limited to: I expect to be safe, I expect to be as prepared as I know how to be and I expect to be able to draw conclusions based on both my experience and the knowledge I am basing my experiment on :o) Thats about it, I try not to create expections based on other opinions of what is 'supposed to happen' ... granted the shamanic studies emphazie the uniqueness of each journey to the individual.
 
The tunnel tree did not surprise me in the least ... mind you I'd like to know what kind of tree it was, lol Again it was no surprise that I entered the other realm through this kind of passage, though I do admit that I thought I would come out at some point, but alas I did not.
 
Birds, are in many many cultures guides to the otherworld so it seemed easy to accept their presence as they fluttered through the dark. The cats were a mystery though ... (it reminds me of a story I heard a long time ago about the death of the king of cats and hundreds of cats traveled across the cat to pay trinute ... yada yada) ... they didn't seem particularly interested in me, but thats a cat for you... I was simply something to walk around, lol. The big thing I have to admit still gives me pause, I can actually still remember the sensation of it sliding above me <shivers> I know I wanted it to just keep going thank you very much ... a dragon? Could you discuss this a bit further?
 
The headache was not a surprise, unwanted yes.. but no surprise (after the fact, it was like a ...yeah it figures, lol). I had to learn to deal with headaches in my third eye when I was learning to scry. Hopefully they will become less as my skill increases. Interesting that you mention water... I think I will accept your recommendation a glass before and after, something I hadn't mentioned was dealing with dehydration after journeying ... in both cases I was hot and bone dry in dire need of fluid afterwards. Plus I had not considered the unique properties of water itself... thanks for that!!
 
About the dancing figure... I dunno. It was like the time I watched a BC native perform a Raven dance, totally fascinating. I was literally compelled to watch, then my perspective changed and I was dancing to the drum, then zip... I was back to watching... back and forth. The rune simply appeared, as a rune-reader I will take it at face value.
 
Your comments about the buzzing sensation are really interesting, was simply chalking it up to the vibrational change that occurs (similar to astral travel) when your spiritual self literally surfaces through the energy bodies, or perhaps its a matter of exchanging your awareness from one level to the next...hmmmm But the buzzing on my head was distinctly different ... were as the body one was more of a low buzz, my head was experiencing a high electrical buzz (like an electric toothbrush, lol) and it fit exactly over my head the way you would pull a knitted hat on .. it appeared after the weight across my eyes. THAT really unsettled me... I was alone in the house and did NOT expect to feel ANYthing physically touch me !! When it touched me I felt the same high buzz but it was distant ... do you know what I mean? and then it rested firmly across my blindfold. Then within a minute the electrical skullcap appeared... by that time I was wide awake and back in the ordinary state of consciousness and on the verge of panic. I actually did touch my head and eyes before removing the blindfold, lol ... I do have to admit though that the 'feeling' I got when it rested across my eyes was a kind of amusement, no malice ... I was very startled but not necessarily frightened, but the combination did bring me one heck of an adreniline rush... fight or flight set in instantly, lol
 
Anyways, this is a looooong post, lol hope you don't mind :o) I have every intention on following the drum and expanding my skills, I would long to hear more from you in regards to trance states, its wonderful to be able to discuss this, thank you. Also, would you mind if I copy our posts on the Betwixt thread as well?
 
Bright Blessings,
Red

Reply
 Message 11 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«Sent: 10/1/2004 6:56 AM
From: MaryJaneV Sent: 9/28/2004 9:16 PM
Just to give a geeky little scientific interjection...
 
 
Drumming puts the brain in a relaxed alpha state, which is a pretty groovy state to be in....
 
 
Sorry   MJ the Brain wave chick had to be geeky...
 

 
 
From: LightBearer741 Sent: 9/29/2004 8:53 AM

Mary Jane
 
Oh Thank You, had forgotten the Alpha State and Nuts, have a meditation to take Members into it! LOL LOL  It is sooooo hard to teach others how to do somethings that you've done for so many years (usually more than their age LOL) just spontaneously!  Sitting and breaking it down step by step, with all the feelings you get physically from the vibrational sensations is not easy to do...
 
Have found the head to be such an experience and awesome sensations there outside on the scalp and whoooaaaaaa inside the brain is just unbelievable what happens!  Have never studied the brain and probably should as it would explain more about the sensations we feel in certain parts of it when meditating and journeying, doing Readings, and any divination work, not to mention just picking up intuitively throughout the day.  Visions would also be good to figure in this too, the waking ones, as their very similar to a trance state.
 
Blessings And Love,
      LIGHT   
 

 
From: LightBearer741 Sent: 9/29/2004 9:10 AM
Red Phoenix
 
Just going to leave a brief note and will back later, as need to get the Site up.  Yes, please if you feel it would help someone and just to have as reference (those keys within us sometimes pops up) do copy the messages I leave and put on Betwixt, and am a Member there too.  Will get back later today and reply in depth to your messageWill say that you have connected with your Journey Guide and that high buzzing around your head confirms it for me!  We are never left alone when learning these things and although I never saw mine, did sense them around me when traveling or what you call journeying. 
 
Being a lone Wolf, have never been taught by anyone here, but sure have been by Guides and Teachers!  98% of what I teach others is from experience...not from books and do feel thats the best route for anyone to go.  All of this is an individual thing, but there are some commonalities which can be shared and does answer some of those questions too!
 
Blessings And Love,
       LIGHT  
 

Reposted wirh permission of writers.



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 Message 12 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMaryJaneVSent: 10/2/2004 3:40 PM
Sorry I haven't been here lately and sorry I haven't contributed further. 
 
(Im blaming Ivan, its been crazy here for about 3 weeks now) 
 
Red, I have a question for you.  Are you aware of the possibility that you may be breathing deeper and faster than you normally do?  The reason that I ask this is very simple.  When we perform EEG's on healthy individuals we have them 'overbreathe' for a peroid of 3 minutes.  Flooding the body and the brain with oxygen irritates the brain and may cause changes that could prove seizures, that's why we do it.  However, other physical and mental manifestations do occur with hyperventilation and those include symptoms of numbness and tingling, perhaps a little lightheadedness, and in some cases hallucinations.  ( we actually explain to patients that they will most likely expereince some of these parasthesias prior to the test so that they don't become afraid)
 
As a matter of fact, some cultures have used hyperventilation for meditation and vision quests since the beginning of time.  Perhaps this helps explain the physical manifestations you are experiencing?  
 
However, when I was shuffling my tarot cards for your reading a few weeks ago... I knew it was time to lay the cards out and stop shuffling them when my hands grew very warm and were sort of buzzing.. 
 
So I don't know..  I was trying to give you a scientific/medical explanation.    but thats just me... mj the science geek..  Though I can't explain the warm buzzing feeling of my hands when I was shuffling the tarot cards.   Maybe these acts of channeling, meditation and so forth, draw our familiars close to us and thats why we are experiencing these strange sensations. 
 
Sorry I left ya with more questions than answers.
 
mj

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 Message 13 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«Sent: 10/2/2004 4:50 PM
Good Day MJ,
 
Its great to see you again, I too had attributed your absence to hurricane issues and simply hoped that you and yours were well and safe.
 
Hmm, I'm glad you clarified your post, I was thinking that you were referring to the various brain waves induced by sound or sleep patterns. But in response to your inquiry ... no I was breathing  evenly (when I was aware of it), in fact my relaxation techniques require breath awareness and control.
 
I had forgotten about the tarot card thing, but I now remember you mentioning it ... no the question I would ask might be... was it my guide you experienced or your own? lol Or something altogether different? Hmmm
 
Never fret about weighing with your scientific opinion, I for one always value it and appreciate you taking the time to do so :o)
 
Blessings,
Red
 
 
 

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 Message 14 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«Sent: 10/2/2004 4:59 PM
more amazing input from Light ...
 

 
From: LightBearer741 Sent: 10/2/2004 10:36 AM
Red Phoenix
 
Probably one of the major reasons that visions and trance states seem easy to do is because of years in doing Transcendental Meditation.  Which the state itself can be acquired in many others ways, thats certainly not the only one.  But it does lay the groundwork nice and neatly which can open you to that 'silence' within that allows all sorts of things you want to work on or do come to the fore.
 
As Mary Jane stated and agree, the Alpha Beta state itself is the key to it!  Once you have the 'feel' of it, you can and will do all sorts of things.  Another thing have found is that sometimes no matter what I'd planned to do, it seems my Guides had different ideas LOL  So in the beginning of training in this area you will find yourself where you should be according to what it is you need to learn. 
 
Once you become more adjusted to this state, comfortable with and have initially learned somethings that was needed, then you'll find you can enter a trance state, and simply by 'willing' through focus to see what you want.  You don't have to meditate or do anything physically to trigger it. 
 
Read a couple of articles back in the early 70's on some Parapsychologists and Doctors (MD's) that used LSD to enter into states like this similar to what the Native American Indians do when they smoke their Peace Pipes.  Some of the things they felt and saw really cracked me up!  You can do the samethings through Transcendtal Meditations LOL  Why would someone want to mess their bodies up by using drugs to get this state?  Indians probably had a good chuckle over that one too! 
 
Some of these trances are so very real, that you do have the feeling of actually being there.  Its the same with visions and those clairvoyant things and scenes which come to you.  There is however one type of vision which is rather peculiar, that is until one views it according to the 'feel' of it.  Thats when have been talking to someone and suddenly a vision comes to me and the scene plays out in front of me.  Now am totally consciously aware of whats being said and going on around me, the 'feel' of it is still the trance state.  Have had people ask me, "Are you alright, your eyes look like your far away."  LOL The vision is superimposed over anything physically am seeing, so can see both simultaneously, now thats a mind-blowing twist.  What is seen and heard physically however, is like far away, but nonetheless totally aware of it.
 
This brings up the old saying about Shamans, who have one foot in this world and the other foot in other dimension/realms/worlds....beyond the physical.  Although not a Shaman do have the genes of the old Bards from my family.  Personally believe anyone can learn to do this!
 
Have also noticed that out in Nature when seeing trees, plants, flowers, rocks, etc., and 'feeling' the beauty of them, then focusing upon one in particular that seems brighter, and stands out among the others that seeing this beauty and a deep feeling of love is felt, also at times will see its Aura and the pure joy, Unconditional Love comes to me from it!  Then communication seems very easy between you and whatever it is your viewing.  This too is part of that 'feeling' of the Silence.
 
When we go through some of those tunnels, we don't always come out somewhere.  Why has always aluded me?  Although have determined somethings regarding it,and my state of consciousness, level of conscious awareness, as well as what am actualy ready for and not ready for...now sometimes have seen designs in them...and also picked up emanations not only from the tunnel itself, but also where it comes out of.  Perhaps this is a way of learning to know how to pick up on 'where' your heading and whether or not its the right one your looking for.  As in those times when you come to the connections in tunnels which branch off in four directions.  You will need to know by 'sensing and feeling' which one it is you need. 
 
Also one needs to determine at the onset whether or not their a see-er or a feeler.  I sense before seeing or hearing anything.  So am a feeler.  Before anything from the outside gets to me in thought/feeling its sensed as incoming.  Always on guard regarding energies, will hold them outside of my electro-magnetic field or Aura, viewing them. 
 
When one is in a trance state or the Silence, they are very well protected.  To me the Silence is the place within us, where our Light is, where our spirit and that of Spirit dwells together. (Spirit being God/God-Goddess/Buddha, Source etc.)  In the training days of Warrior, learned also to use this energy when traveling and battling on different planes.  Understand too, that in training periods we are never alone, so there is added protection there in case its needed.  This energy is also used in the physical when needed, as in healing or even exorcizing a spirit who has possessed someone...In the Silence ego is put aside...self is not thought of....
 
Wondering about the thing that slithered over you going by....Dragon energy comes to mind in this.  Shamans do work with earth and universal energies, all the Nature Kingdoms and this includes the Dragon energy which flows through earth as in those ley lines to central points of earths energy.  Stone Henge is one!  Earth's energies and points are changing and sense that you may also be working in this area in the future.  Serpent energy...Dragon energy are the same. 
 
You'll find Dragons on the higher levels of each plane of existence which keeps them in balance so to speak.  They are of pure energy form.  Dragons and Faeries, all Nature Spirits work together in energies and dispersing them in proper order and balance.  There are those who are here to help with this change of energies in Earth.
 
Need to do, but will return...
 
Blessings And Love,
        LIGHT

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 Message 15 of 15 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname»®ed«·»Ph¤enïX«Sent: 10/2/2004 7:40 PM
words of caution from Shado ... please read

 
From: ShadoWoman�?/FONT> Sent: 10/2/2004 2:08 PM
It's recently been brought to my attention that astral travel is not something to do these just for fun or practice, etc.  The reason being and I don't know if anyone else is noticing or experiencing an increase of the negative energies and troubles more than normal which are being brought out and purged right now, but these energies are scattering.  To astral travel without EXTRA protection can be dangerous cuz these energies need something to attach to.
 
We're seeing an example of the purging most prominently with the hurricanes, which supposedly came about as a result of the stargate opening on 8:8, but many many many people and myself included are experiencing tumultuous but healing shifts going on as these negative energies are being cleared. 
 
I guess the advice right now is to stick a little closer to 'home' and not venture too much for no reason into the astral realms.
 
Shad~

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