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| | From:  nitegracee (Original Message) | Sent: 7/26/2005 4:28 AM |
 Greetings Bird Lovers, I have had McTavish 4 mths. He is about 9 mths old. I have 3 cats and a dog. Poor McTavish still hasn't gotten used to the animals. He is so frightened when out of his cage, that he will briskly nibble a wing or his chest, fluff-up, sneeze, and/or crouch down at the sight of any of them. When the dog is napping, and out of sight, AND I shut the cats up in the basement, McTavish will look around for them, and continue to display these signs. He can be on his boing, the playgym, or on my hand while I'm on the sofa, and there's no change in his behavior. I would have thought by now, he would have gotten used to the other critters somewhat, and it worries me. He is so sweet, and I love him so, it breaks my heart that he is nervous like this out of his cage. Have any of you encountered this type of situation, and if so, did your bird outgrow it? The breeder I got him from had no cats, but did have a dog. ~ IhopeIhopeIhope~ I also have a 6 yr old Quaker, and she is fine, has NO fear of anything at all. Perhaps it's because she was 9 weeks old coming into this new home, and he was months older, I don't know, but I need advice so my dear boy can feel comfortable, and learn to trust me! I feel like a horrible bird mama, and I'm desperate for any ideas.  Thanks, love&peace~ Pam |
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Just my opinion: Instinct is a powerful protector. Without it, there wouldn't be any birds left in the world. If McTavish will nibble feathers, fluff-up, sneeze, and/or crouch down at the sight of the dogs and cats, it's entirely possible that he's already had one bad experience or his instinct tells him bluntly to anticipate a bad experience. Overcoming instinctual behaviors is difficult. It's not that he doesn't trust you. He allows you to take him out of his cage, place him on boing or arm, and is sweet with you. It's just that Mother Nature is constantly whispering to him that a cat or a dog can kill him in a heartbeat and that makes him very nervous. That's comparable to you waking up and finding yourself in the middle of Jaws or Nightmare on Elm Street or something really scary like that. Since instinct serves a worthy purpose and is extremely difficult to overcome, I can only recommend that McTavish be kept in an area where the cats and dog are never allowed to enter. If he can't see them and doesn't hear them, he'll probaby settle down in due time. Otherwise, the stress will eventually overload the body and affect his health. |
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First off, I love the name. That's so cute.
I have to wonder if it's the animals he's afraid of. If he acts the same even if he can't see or hear them then it is probably something else. I have a housefull of dogs and cats and some of my birds are 'used' or preowned birds and some I raised from babies myself. None of them are afraid of the other animals. In fact, most of the dogs and cats are afraid of the birds. It's funny to see an Mtoo chasing a chihuahua down the hall. (It wouldn't be funny if she caught him, but I was right there.) If you have young children, that could be it. Most birds don't like small children. It's impossible to know what went on in his life before you got him. Most breeders, if they have alot of babies, do not have the time to spend a lot of time with each baby after they are weaned. He may just need more 'hands on' time. Try to hold him in your lap while you are watching TV, etc. with lots of head scritches and loving.
The bottom line is you are not going to get rid of the other critters or the kids if you have any so he must learn to live with them. JMO but I don't feel he should be separtated from them. He will never adjust that way. I would also suggest a good vet check if you haven't already done that.
You are not a bad bird mommy. If you were, you wouldn't be worrying about him. 4 months is not long in the life of a bird that could live to be 50 or 60 yrs old. Just hnag in there and I think he will be alright. Peggy |
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Just wondered...where is McTavish's cage? Sounds like he's comfortable in his cage, but NOT when he's out of it. Could it be when he's out of his cage (playstand??) he's in a high traffic area?? When I first brought Gizmo (CAG) home, the "ideal" spot I had in mind for him was indeed a very bad place..too much traffic. He is MUCH happier away from all the commotion (of us walking by him all the time), and away from the t.v. and stereo. So my thought is that perhaps he is in a high traffic area of animals and/or people. Just a thought. Dianne |
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I am thinking kind of like Dianne. Maybe just too much in his view. Is his cage near a window or does it set out away from a wall? If so, can you back it into a corner so he doesn't have to see "stuff" except on two sides? You may even cover the back and one side so he only has to remain alert to things nearby on two sides. Ekkies are usually pretty low key and calm about things going on around them, so I wonder if he had had some threats from children or animals before you got him. Maybe even another bird landed above him and scared him at some point in his early months. Where is your sofa? Same thing, he may feel way too exposed when sitting with you. It may be worth putting him in another area for a while and just see if his fearful appearance changes. Have you added any pictures to your walls, or changed your furniture? It's crazy the things that can scare the daylights out of them. My Murphy grey was terrified of a picture of himself I used to have hanging in the birdroom. Got that thing outta there and he calmed down. Do you have any animal sculptures or paintings? Think like a bird. If things could eat you, what in the room would be most likely to do it? That's what needs to be removed from his view. Annie |
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Hi Birdlady, Peggy, Annie, & Dianne, Thank you! The only place he’d be out of the way of animals is upstairs in a bedroom all alone and I want him here with us. This is an old house, 1,000 sq ft, and the main floor is like a circle within a square house. It’s living rm, dining rm, kitchen, and one can see the all rooms at once. In fact, the dog and cats chase each other around that circle in a square. I don’t have the luxury of a “family room�?at this point, wish I did, especially now. I was SO hoping he would outgrow this, get used to the other animals. I hate the thought of his health being affected; I have to act before that happens! He was vet checked completely when I got him, in every way, and he was perfect according to the Dr. I also weigh him weekly. He pretty much stays around 355 grams. It’s just my husband and me here, and the cages are in the dining room where there is less traffic, but still, it’s all open so we are all REALLY living together. I tell people who claim to live in a “zoo�?because they have so many pets, that I actually live IN THE CAGE with the animals!! LOL! His gym and boing are in the living room, not far at all from the TV. I did have the idea to buy an extra cage, just large enough for him to sleep in, and put him in a bedroom for the night so at least he can sleep all night interrupted. His cage is about 36�?wide, and I thought maybe I’d get a 24�?for bedtime and/or when we are out of the house. That way I wouldn’t have to shut the cats up all the time. We have caught the cats actually ON the cage. I just don’t understand, they didn’t do this to the Quaker before McTavish came along! And I thought the much larger bird may intimidate them a bit as you mention, Peggy, but NOOOOO. They are far more fascinated with him than the little Quaker. BTW, I often call him Sir McTavish Poopsalot. or, Tavi, which means beloved. The name suits him Peggy, his beautiful Emerald Isle color was the reason for the name, and I’m trying to teach him to say “I’m a handsome Lad!�?/P> It’s funny you should mention Annie, about what may be in the room, or changes because I thought of that. Nothing has changed since he came here at all. I do have one theory though that I didn’t put in my first post. When we first got him the cats were so bothersome, especially since he eats “people food�? and John and I would run in the dining room with the spray bottle chasing the cat out, could WE have frightened the poor thing ourselves?! Hmmmmmmm? I’ve even seen the dog at the cage, his head cocked to the side with his tongue between the cage bars licking up food fling-age!! My poor Sir Tavi!! I guess it’s mainly the fact that he is so very different from my Quaker, disposition-wise. What’s “good for the Quaker isn’t necessarily good for the Ekkie�?! LOL! So, it’s more likely a cat or dog trying to get at his flung food, or me running in there chasing out the four-legged beasts, than an incident before I got him huh? We don’t make such a fuss anymore when animals go in the room where the birds are, we just get up, go pick up the cat, and remove her or him from the room. Thanks! I think I’ll pull from this advice you’ve all shared with me, and make it my goal to make my baby’s life a little smoother the best I can. Love&peace~ Pam |
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OK, no guilt trips on this, but you certainly could have scared him if you really did run into view with the spray bottle. Most birds have the flight response to anything that suddenly appears when they are relaxed. Slow easy movements, so they see and hear you coming, are so much nicer. I know you were alarmed at the cats being up there so I understand the hurry to get them down. The cats have another potential problem. Cats, even healthy ones, carry pasteurella bacteria and just one little scratch can kill a bird. You need to find a solution to them getting on top of the cage. They are a predator to birds and must be really frightening to him. Think about what a bird does outdoors when a cat comes into view. They fly up into a tree to hide. He has no place to hide. I think a sleeping cage is an excellent idea. It can be smaller than 24 inches, too, if sleep is all you plan to use it for. Diana, a Vosmaeri ekkie, lots bigger than McTav, slept in a little 18 x 14 or so cage. Just be sure he has head and tail space above and below the perch. Some little cages aren't easy to put perches where we need them. You know those clear plastic runners that you can buy to put on carpet to prevent trails thru the house? Very flexible and has sharp prongs on the back. I got one for $5 at Walmart and cut it to fit Diana's big cage so that when the other birds are flying, she won't bite their toes off if they land there. I turned it upside down with the prongs up and punched 6 holes and tied it with leather strips. She can still climb around under it because it is so flexible that her toes easily go under it. She has never chewed on it, but I will remove it if she ever does. That may help keep the cats off because it really hurts me to bump up against it. Hard as the dickens to dust it because the cloth catches on the prongs, too. Annie |
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Hi Annie, Too late about the guilt trips. I really think I started the fiasco myself. The thing I didn't realize, was how sensitive the Eclectus is as opposed to the Quaker, which was my first bird. Plus the fact that the kitties all lost interest in the Quaker over time. That may save me, the cats losing interest in McTavish eventually. I am aware of the danger cats are to birds, including the bacteria, and that is why cats get shut up when we can't watch. I love the idea of the runner, what a great tip! I doubt very much if kitty will like the feel of those little spikes!! I have one exactly like it in front of the cages to catch food and such, and save the carpet. I also put a piece of plexiglass, cut to size, in the floor of each cage to make it easier to clean. I wipe up the poo at least half a dozen times a day. It sure beats scrubbing the bottom grate and disposing of the bottom paper every day. Thank you for the help Annie, I really appreciate it! I want all my beloved critters to live in harmony with us, and be comfortable, happy, healthy, loving and well adjusted! love&peace~ Pam |
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No bird will ever get used to a cat getting on his
cage. That is like if we were setting in a glass room with a V. Raptor clawing
at the top, after just watching Jurassic Park.
No wonder he is afraid. do you not realize they
can get most of their front legs through those bars.. Even if you do not see it,
they could be hanging on the cage swiping at your bird inside his home. One nail
hook in skin and you could have a deadly infection... You have to do something
to keep the cats away from him.
I know you love your cats, and trust them, but
they are predators first and pets second. The cats may begin to accept him
as part of the pack eventually, and they may leave him alone then, but by then
he will be so afraid of them that he will never forget it. It may be too late
already if he is afraid he may have a reason to be..
Good Luck, Crow. |
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Yes, Crow, I do realize the possibilities here, that is why I am so upset over this situation. Previous experience with the Quaker wasn't like this...who knew! In the 6 yrs I've had Gracee, the cats didn't do this to her! At first I thought we'd risk maybe a bitten paw, and the cats would leave him alone, but I don't believe that's happened. He is in a large cage. The cats don't bother Gracee like this, I just can't figure it out! It must be McTavish's food they are after. I do indeed love all my critters, and since many, many people have cats with birds with no problems, I am determined to do the same. My only solution, I'm afraid, will be to have a contractor to come and put doors in the archway (lrm & dng rm), and charge me a pretty penny!!  ~sigh~ I would prefer that to harming my bird, and MY having a nervous breakdown! Thanks Crow, Pam |
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I have thought so much about your situation since your first message. I wonder if the reason the cats are so interested in McTav is that they can sense fear in him. Since Quakers are such little bulldogs in the bird world, maybe Gracee isn't interesting. We are sure that birds can sense our fear after a bad bite, so why not a cat sensing a bird's fear? Makes sense to me. (Goodness, that's a lot of sense up there.  ) Surely between all of us we can think of something to try without you having to remodel your home permanently. This may be completely out of the question for your home, but I had a dog who could jump the doggie gate at night. We lock them in the kitchen and she would sail right over the gate. We bought a taller gate and she sailed right over it too. So we stacked the two gates and she was locked in. Looked awful but it worked. There still will be a space above the gates that a climbing cat could go over, but if yours aren't climbers, it may work. These gates are the kind that are adjustable to fit many doorway widths and lock into place with rubber bumpers, without being screwed into the woodwork. They are each 32 inches high, so two stack to 5 and a half feet high. I bought the plastic coated wire mesh kind because I had one dog that could chew thru plastic mesh in hours. Another Walmart purchase, this time from the infants' department. Annie |
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When we first got our english bulldog Angel she loved to try stick her nose up to the cages if we weren't looking. Unfortunately for her and fortunate for the birds she encountered Tweetie the macaw at the bottom of her cage. Tweetie is not timid or shy with dogs and one nip on Angel's nose and she doesn't mess with birds anymore. |
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You make such a good point Annie. I'm sure the cats sense the fear. I call Quakers the "Siamese cat" of the bird world. they are so ornery and confident. Gracee (the Quaker) has NO FEAR, and the cats really don't pay any attention to her. When birds are out, John and I watch them like a hawk, but that Gracee, she couldn't care less about the cats and dog. We get McTavish out when kitties are napping, or shut up, and he does ok for a while. When I get the clue he's not happy, I take him back to his cage. I want him to be content no matter what I have to do. I am so envious of people with a blended pet household, and am very determined to have one here! I have seen the gates in a pet catalog that would fit the entire doorway, and would do anything that worked, but I think I'll put one of those swing doors between the dining room and kitchen, it would look better, and I'd never have to put it up, and take it down all the time. The dining room to the living room doorway is much wider, and would look pretty with a pair of arched doors made to fit, but I know it's going to be expensive. I should just get an estimate and see what it would be and go from there. I do feel terrible about shutting up the kitties all the time, but until I get off my duff and do something here about poor McTavish's discomfort, that's my only solution. I adore that big green lad! You are so thoughtful coming up with ideas for me, and I really appreciate it! Thanks! love&peace~ Pam |
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