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Coping with the Psychopath/Narcissist Child[email protected] 
  
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General : 14-yr old son w/NPD & BPD
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 Message 1 of 10 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknameAnnastasia333  (Original Message)Sent: 29/08/2008 7:34 p.m.
Hi I'm new & not sure where to start. I am a single parent of a 14-yr old son who was diagnosed with BPD 2 yrs. ago & recently with NPD. They say he's too young for an official diagnosis of APD, but shows all the signs. I kept hoping if the BPD was taken care of the rest would fall into place, but it's only gotten worse. I have been trying to get help for years and it took until his last hospitalization for them to see what I've been telling them. He has almost killed our dog, come after me, threatened me, threatened to kill others, etc. His therapist wanted me to tell him that I was afraid of him b/c of his violence - I've lived in fear for the last 2 yrs. and been a prisoner in my own home. I had to lock my door at night and sleep became something of a luxury. He shows signs of fixating on me & not respecting my boundaries - he presents as posing a sexual threat and has no regard for what is just WRONG or inappropriate - just what he wants no matter what. I have been having anxiety attacks for over a year now & when I told his therapist how his behavior has affected me, she thought that though he was extremely N - I need to let him know that I count too. Once I said he made me nervous - he got violent & had to be escorted out - he went postal. After that he threatened to kill me - he all the sudden told the Dr. that he owns me - that he deliberately chased off friends - there's no one left & that he was jealous of our dog b/c she could sit in my lap and sleep in my bed. There were more details that just make me sick. He thinks I exist for him & since I ticked him off he threatened to beat my face in & then said blandly - I guess I'd go to jail so maybe not. Then he said if they returned him home that he'll end up killing me b/c I'd probably say something at some point to tick him off- he said he'd probably kill the dog first since she'd try to protect me. No emotion, no realization of all I've given up, how much I've tried to help, how much I've stood by him. I walked on eggshells and tried to be supporting, tried not to set him off, avoided calling the police (when I should have - hindsight) - tried to stay positive when I felt like everyday was walking through "the valley of the shadow of death". I'm sorry this is so long - there's just so much that's happened and this has affected me so thoroughly, I don't know how to get back on my feet. He's temporarily in a Therapeutic Home - with a new Dr. & Therapist & they don't believe the history. He displays the good manners and the charm most of the time to them and they disregard his threats to kill. I can see he's still showing some warning signs, but they are not used to dealing with this degree of sickness - they think he's too young & it will go away. I am still scared of him and have to pick him up & I know he's dangerous. I hate this. I've lost so much & can't see how I can continue to deal knowing that at any point in time I will get the dreaded call that he's hurt someone or worse. Looking forward to connecting with others who have an idea what I'm talking about. Thanks, A


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 Message 2 of 10 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknamekellomalSent: 30/08/2008 3:14 p.m.
Hi Anna and welcome to the group. I wish I could say something to make it all better but sadly I cant. What a traumatic time you are having and he's only 14. These P/Ns have no conscience or soul and its awful to be living through this. There is no right or wrong in their world----it just is. I hope you will find some peace here.
Kel

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 Message 3 of 10 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknameunknownmsSent: 31/08/2008 1:04 a.m.
You are not alone. All of here understand. My only advice would be to protect yourself . . protect yourself . . and then protect yourself . . . emotionally, physically, financially.

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 Message 4 of 10 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknameAnnastasia333Sent: 31/08/2008 1:57 a.m.
Hi Kel & unknownms - thanks for responding. It's been a tough day!

I just got finished with a visit & it went well until the last couple of hours. From other stories I've read it's common for them to make up stories to get what they want - I had to take him back to his therapeutic home while he ranted and raved about how horrible it is, how they're hitting the other kid in the home (who's 6 yrs. old), how they don't care about him & are mean and antagonistic, they said he abused their dog (which he denies) and he portrayed a horrible image of everyday life which is making him worse. He seems to have crossed over into psychosis (paranoia) and is like a time bomb ready to go off - I know he wants me to just bring him home & I don't know what to believe. I know it's not safe for him to be here & his behavior today was not encouraging - he's on the verge of losing control & I still haven't gotten it together from all the stuff over the last couple of years - I am afraid he's going to seriously hurt someone there - he's gotten violent already with the 6 yr. old and the way he talks about the temporary guardians makes me fear for their safety. I hate to dismiss all his accusations out of hand, but I know at least some of it was manipulation. I've always put my needs aside to protect others - kept him close to home so I could try to keep things under control (if only), he's my son, my responsibility - I don't think I could handle it if he hurts someone (of course he knows this). I feel like if I don't do something or intervene (though I'm not sure how) that something very bad is going to happen. I feel like I have to make a choice between keeping myself safe or others. What a choice - I have always put others first including him and now I feel emotionally bankrupt - nothing left to draw on, but still feel my motherly instincts rise up when he presents unfair treatment or problems of this magnitude. Any words of wisdom or experience? Thanks again, Anna

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 Message 5 of 10 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknamefemfreeSent: 31/08/2008 2:21 p.m.
HI Annastasia. You are lucky to be alive.
 
Your son needs to be hospitalized for your safety and the safety of society as well as his own safety.
 
Please do accept the reality of his disorders - there is no cure. This is the most painful thing for a parent to accept. I wish I had more to offer you but cold reality is all I can give you and that's not a nice present at all.
 
HIs 'good manners' are part of the package with these personality disorders, but he can and will twist on a dime and your life or others could be in danger.
 
Hugs and love
femfree
 
 

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 Message 6 of 10 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknamesparkysmoonladySent: 31/08/2008 3:20 p.m.
Anna
 
I wish I could tell you things will get better but they won't
 
You do have a choice - you can put your son into an institution and leave him there - have him made a ward of the state and protect yourself and others from what he might do
 
There are those among us in this group that know a child like this can not see the rights of other people and are only alive for themselves and death is the only answer
 
I wish I had better news - I wish I could help but
 
Protect yourself - protect yourself - protect yourself and alfter all that
 
Protect yourself
 
Some of these kids die - mine did
 
Sparky

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 Message 7 of 10 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknameMyLadyMadonnaSent: 31/08/2008 8:43 p.m.
Hi~
It is unfortunate about what you are going through.I lived with an N for 26 yrs trying to 'manage' his aggression and tone down his behavior to protect myself and my children as well as others. I cowered after running away for 14 months to have my 4th child and tried to be free of him only for him to find me and I surrendered to his will for the next 16 yrs before starting to stand up for myself and divorce him . I looked for any excuse and justification to keep with him, for my childrens sake I thought.... I was wrong.
As a result my oldest 2 children adopted his nature, not wanting to be victims,as I had become. Now they are dysfunctional in their own families and their children are also affected. My middle children [ I have 5] became torn as their father manipulated them against me and after a while they saw me as being manipulative as well [ in self defense]
My youngest daughter found it hard to distinguish as I encouraged her to love her father and whenever I bought things for her , would give them to him to give to her,[hoping it would teach him to give as he never supported the family but leeched off me and them] That proved wrong as well as when we later had custody battles when I finally stopped making excuses for him and divorced him. He  managed to get her for 3 months but then she saw through him and came home, but he remarried to a bigger N than himself who wanted a ready made family for tax purposes,[unbelievable as that sounds!]
I finally had to send my daughter to my oldest daughter's home for a year to finish school out west away from all the insanity til he moved to Guam with his new military wife as her 'dependent'[he is a jigalow, what else is new?]
 
It saved her from being with them, but she also suffered at my oldest daughter's house since her older sister was always manipulative as well and jealous of her younger sister. She survived it to come back to me after her father left the country.
 
My oldest daughter is now having her own 8th child in 10 yrs and raises them like slaves and possessions and each one privately will tell anyone they want to leave. I felt bad and so when my youngest turned 18 and moved out, I felt obligated to go help my grandchildren and my oldest daughter had been asking me to come for over 4 yrs so I went.
 
The control she had was scarey.She also had 4 kids she was paid to babysit. When I arrived, her van broke so she took mine and went out every day leaving me with 9 kids[5 hers and 4 others] She also took my social security check and was abusive to me and her children.She went away for a week with her husband[also under her control] but when she came back she decided the kids needed a tune-up and began beating them in front of me.She also would get  her husband to beat the kids unnecessarily.
 
When I saw the bruises all over the 2  yr old ~ hematomas!- I took the spoon she beat her with and slapped it across her face ~ the first time in 15 yrs I laid a hand on her.I did it to make a point, that hitting was wrong and told her I would defend the kids.She attacked me and her husband had to pull her off of me and the police were called.
 
The police took pictures of the baby's bruises but would not arrest me.I was ready to be arrested as I felt it was my fault she turned out to be such a monster since I was her mother!. It was 120 degrees out and since her name was on my bank account and she had an IRS levy, they took my money and she kept my van for another day.The  police made her return some of the baby sitting money to them to put me in a motel overnite.Next day I called one of her aquaintences who gave me a ride to get my van back. She had all my clothing in  the street but kept my appliances and kitchen equipment. I had a 1/2 tank of gas and no money so I went to the IRS office with papers from social security and the bank to prove that none of the money in my account was her and had to wait 3 days til it was partially refunded. I stayed parked at a local Walmart and slept in my van in over 120 degree weather in Phoenix.
 
I didnt speak again to my oldest daughter for nearly 3 years. She did however have to undergo parenting classes and can no longer beat her children as she did back then. We had a visit this summer and things are gradually  improving, but she is still somewhat close channelled, but more open now than before. She has had 2 more children since I saw her last and is now having another, her 8th. She has burned  many bridges over the last several years and now is more receptive to help so I will go visit more often and help her but never again will I live with her. Those 3 months were hell for me and her children back then.She has finally apologized which is hard for her to do and how sincere is another story, as it seems she is more up for round two now, only this time I wont be as vulnerable to her and her controls.
 
I called my oldest son who was in the Army and was invited to come live with him in Oklahoma so as soon as I had the gas money I drove 1000  miles to his house, being my next closest relative as my other kids were back in PA. He was living with another army girl who has a 2 yr old [not his] and said that if I babysat for her they would save $400 a month and that I didnt have to pay rent. His girlfriend didnt want that however and kept her daughter in day care so I became a Red Cross Volunteer at t he Army Hospital. I remained with them for another 3 months before heading east to Pa to be near my younger children. My youngest had been invited to her N dad's home in Va after he returned from Guam and was promised college through his wife as bait. She was trapped there for 2 months as asked  me to move her back to Pa ., so I did and we moved to a shared living arrangemet together and later got a small house and my younger sons moved back in as she went to California to get married.
 
The point to all t hese encounters, spoken and unspoken is hindsight being 20/20... It was hard to accept the fact that with all my good intentions over the years in trying manage my xN and N children, that I was actually their enabler ~ although I wanted to protect them and others, I was actually helping to perpetuate the problem and by the time they are 18 it will be too late.
 
My youngest son became incorrigible for a time and since he was under 18 I was able to have him placed in a court ordered behavior modification facility til he turned 18. He got his HS GED there and a trade and learned to manage his anger.It was hard to let him go and I feared retaliation and revenge, BUT it turned out  to be the best thing I ever could have done for him~! He learned to be more responsible and to work and is now very mellow and mild, although he still has some difficulties, but is motivated to be independent and has better self esteem and consideration for others, that was lacking as a teenager.
 
My middle boy was ADHD and bipolar schizo and very N demanding as he grew up and failed in school miserably. When I finally got the needed help for him the school system was going to put him in a small behavior modification class, usually reserved for miscreants, which he wasnt at the time, just disruptive and overly playful, BUT my xN signed him out of school convincing him they werent really helping, Once signed out the school district was free from their obligation to educate him and now he is almost 25 and has no diploma or future.He is on disability and lives upstairs from me .I still help him but he is fairly independent, also damaged by his dad and yet loves both of us.I still am trying to get him to get his license and diploma.
 
Had I placed him in a controlled environment at 14 when it was suggested by his therapists, he would have received the help needed and would have gotten his diploma and been better off than he is now. I didnt want to send him away at the time and regret that now since his younger brother who was also borderline personality disorder has done so much better than his older brother and has more advantages over him now because I let him go to the professionals to finish school and treatment.
 
You have had 14 yrs with your son and things are only getting worse for both of you.You can not 'help' him while he seeks to intimidate you with retaliation and his manipulations. You can not resist the pattern he has grown accustomed to with you since birth.You see the direction in which he is heading and you cant wish it away nor can you stop him .
 
You need to get intensive counselling for yourself to explore the reasons you allow him to do this to you as you have hidden things in your subconscious ~ guilt, fear of rejection, fear of punishment , fear of failure, fear of not being loved, low self-esteem, low confidence in your own 'right' judgement and willingness to feed into his delusions of omnipotence over you. 
 
You need to let him go, to others who he cant manipulate the way he has manipulated him so he can if possible make the changes needed to become a functioning 'normalized' person as he becomes an adult.You can not do that for him!~
 
If his temporary situation isnt helping matters, then you need to say so, so that those he is under care with can make the needed adjustments and become his advocate for right mental health treatments while you still have a say so. When he turns 18, only a few short years away, it will be too late and you wont be able to change a thing about him anymore!
 
You have the chance now to really help him and yourself and save your future relationship.If you can resist bringing him back home and instead find a proper long term care for him, such as a boys school that can be court ordered, he would obtain structuralized treatment that would be spread over several people in charge of him so that he would not be able to manipulate just a few as the others would catch on and point him in the right direction.My youngest son came home so much more understanding and considerate compared the the monster he had become by age 16.
 
No mother wants their child to be unacceptable and sometimes you have to let go in order to love them the right way and help mold them into a decent adult later on.
 
I can not impress it enough how sending my boy to the Cornell Abraxas boys program, how it helped him and actually saved our relationship into making it a healthy one. I was initially full of guilt and remorse that I failed as a parent, but he will tell anyone otherwise as he recognized that it was necessary since he had gone out of control and would possibly be in jail today had I not got the intervention needed for him when he was a teenager.
 
Be open with your counsellors, read up on NPD and BPD as well as anything that resembles your sons behavior and look for why he does what he does and try to find the right solution for him. Be pro-active in his treatment so he can  not fantisize abandonment and build resentment towards you. Reinforce that you care and will always 'be there' for him~! Emphasize that you want what is best for him and that doesnt include allowing him to get away with his negative behaviors that he has learned to operate from and that he needs to come to understand why he does what he does and that it is unacceptable and will only lead to trouble as an adult so you have to do what you are now doing, even though it hurts both of you to go through this.
 
If he is N he can learn emotional behavior modification now before it is too late so that instead of being solely self centered he can learn that it is also in his best interest to put others first and learn to care for others as well so his life will balance out.
 
Imagine if you dont help change him now, how many failed relationships he would be doomed to have and also what kind of parent he may someday become without this intervention! You may be saving your own potential grandchildrens lives someday~! 
Break the cycle and do what your gut is telling you that you need to do.
 
Dont allow guilt and emotionalism to rob you of the chance to help straighten your son's life out.
GBU~!
Ave

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 Message 8 of 10 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknameAnnastasia333Sent: 2/09/2008 12:30 a.m.
Hi everyone & thanks for sharing your insight & experiences. It really does help a lot. This seems like a roller coaster ride, but at least there are little ups now & again whereas before it seemed to be constantly downhill. I know I need to insulate myself so I don't react to his manipulations - I talked to him today & he was having a good day & told me to forget all the bad stuff he said b/c he might have been wrong about some stuff (in other words he lied & doesn't want me to tell the Dr. at his monthly appt. tomorrow). I am going to talk to the Dr. & his Therapeutic Foster Parents tomorrow without him being present & see if they will agree to hospitalize him or at the very least tell them about his threats.

I also need to distance myself emotionally & am not sure how to do that. I was told before that if he needed further long-term hospitalization that I might need to sign off my rights as a parent to ensure placement in a state facility since he has already exhausted his insurance policy.

Signing on here is like a first step in trying to get back on my feet - finally communicating with people who know the devastation wrought by people with these illnesses - trying to come to terms with the harsh reality and hopefully accepting the situation. I'll see if I can find a good therapist who understands these types of issues to help me move on as much as possible. It's hard to start over after everything has revolved around him for so long - I thought a good parent should hang in there no matter how hard, how tough, I thought I had to work 10x as hard to prove that I didn't make him this way (people love to find a logical explanation and assign blame b/c the reality that some people are just wired wrong is too hard to accept). I've proved to myself that I gave & gave & gave and did everything imaginable, now it's time to care for myself - I'll still try to ensure he gets the best care possible, but need to think about my future too. One step at a time. At least I'm not constantly living in fear anymore.

Anyway, thanks again. Look forward to future correspondence. Best regards, Anna

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 Message 9 of 10 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN NicknameMyLadyMadonnaSent: 2/09/2008 12:28 p.m.
Although it is scarey to sign away your rights in order to obtain state care for him, it is necessary unless you are a millionaire~!
When I went to court over my son, I had to tell them that I couldnt change him or manage him as I tried and knew I was failing, what was most important to me was what was best for him, which I knew I couldnt provide, based on what he was becoming.
His mindset is bigger t han you can handle. It needs to be stopped or curbed if you want to try and make a last ditch effort on molding his character into someone that can be someone someday.
Once I relinquished custody and had him placed at Cornell Abraxas Boys School, he got the intense counselling and monitoring he NEEDED.
Visits were limited initially while he adjusted to being there. It was a good facility with many benefits and a very controlled atmosphere, which he definitely needed.. No more running away, sneaking out, skipping school, smoking pot etc.
He no  longer could hang out with the bad influencing friends  he was so used to relying on, as they too were manipulating their parents. He went first.Then when he completed his schooling there, graduated and was trained in a career he now works at, then his friend went in for a year and it was better that they were separated as it gave him a chance to change his ways.
Once his friend came out , we let him live with us for a long time as his father was the blame for his bad behavior, or so we thought.
By the time his friend came to stay, my son started seeing through the bad influence the other guy had.
I sent  my son away to my oldest son who is in the Army and had a house off base and my youngest son worked t here a while while I tried to help straighten his friend out more.. He did get a job for a while but didnt learn as much at CA because he was sneakier and more narcissistic. What my son began to see was that his 'friend' who mentored him into being so deceitfully self serving was not who he imagined him to be or that he was 'cool'' after all.
Now it is 5 yrs later and my son is 'functioning' without getting in trouble. His 'friend' had come to stay with us a few different times when he was down and we helped him but he decided to get into drugs and later we couldnt allow him back again. Soon after he was arrested and went to jail for dealing... My son on the other hand has grown up and keeps out of trouble now.
I really believe that had I not allowed the courts to intervene with him when they did that he could have ended up like his former friend.
You will always be your sons mom... a few years now in getting t he help he needs, will save both of you alot of heartache in the long run.. You will still be his mom when he turns 18 and have the rest  of your lives to interact and hopefully be on track instead of living the way you are now with him threatening you and behaving so badly.
I found that detaching emotionally was easier when I got counselling as well and the positive reinforcement I needed to modify my own behavior to not be enabler. It is okay to help, but not when it only fuels the fires in the mind of a budding narcissist!
He must be made to realize that he can not get over on you nor is it acceptable to intimidate you.It is wrong for you to live under such circumstances. You need the time to get to know yourself again and be able to set new goals and accomplish them. He needs time to grow up the rest of the way in an environment that will be best suited to modifying the monster within him.
GBU
Ave

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 Message 10 of 10 in Discussion 
From: XtraMSN Nicknamepandora721Sent: 23/09/2008 7:39 a.m.
Hi. Pleased to meet you.
 
I would say 14 was a turning point in my own circumstances.....I wondered just what had gone wrong cos it felt like I had been hit by a train. I wondered if this was just an extreme form of  teenage/hormonal behaviour and hoped if we hung on in there it would pass......but it didn't and if I thought it was bad at 14, it declined dramatically by the time P kid was 20.
 
Before puberty, life was interesting but not bad.....after puberty it became a nightmare.

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