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"Stigmata is spontaneous manifestation of bloody wounds on a person's hands, feet, forehead and back - similar to the wounds of the crucified Jesus. Those who describe stigmata categorize these experiences as divine or mystical. History tells us that many ecstatic bear on hands, feet, side, or brow the marks of the Passion of Christ with corresponding and intense sufferings. These are called visible stigmata. Others only have the sufferings, without any outward marks, and these phenomena are called invisible stigmata ..." Continued I've been thinking of saints and proclaimed heretics, which then led me to contemplating VISIBLE manifestations of divine ....what? channeling? (not sure of the best phrase) such as stigmata... what I do not understand is why this manifestation happens ... and what does it mean? divine favor? (ghastly) and according to the Catholic Encyclopedia, there are no recorded cases prior to the 13 century... I wonder why. Was it a case that stigmata happened but was hidden away or did something happen in the christian doctrine to trigger this phenomenom? So far I have found little but the same information over and over, I am deeply curious.... do you have an opinion on this unusual occurance or maybe even some informational links I could explore? |
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Hi Red, Stigmata is a phenomena I have pondered a bit over the years. Personally I feel it is a manifestation of a very intense empathy (i.e. devote Catholics with the suffering of Jesus). I think there are shamanic implications for sure. Another parallel could be what are termed "sympathy pains" between two individuals with a deep bond (husband and wife, twins, etc.) Do you think it's a possibility? I haven't visited The Universal Empath website in awhile but I seem to recall reading an article there on the subject. Hmm, maybe I'll try to find it this week... Blessings, Leila |
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| | From:  imbas1 | Sent: 7/19/2004 1:36 PM |
As I read the web site that Red provided, It really seemed very very amatueristic. Not the site per se, but the article. Like any unsolicited email that starts off by saying that this is no longer disputed and is accepted as truth, it instantly creates the impression in my mind that it is probably a hoax. Whether it is completely a planned hoax or a physical effect created by a unstable mind, I cannot say. I can say, that I personally have never seen it. Like aliens, bigfoot and the loch ness monster, I have read many articles from those who say they have seen it. Curious that the effect seemed to begin and reach it's height when the catholic religion was at it's strongest, and in areas where it's most fervent believers are. You don't hear of it much today, don't see it in the newspapers, or hear of anyone who has personally seen it up close. Only, occasionally, a special report here and there. Remember Alien Autopsy? That was a special report too..... It is also curious that the wounds occur, where the bible says the wounds were, not neccessarily, where historically, they would be. Now, I have heard that some people can do wonderous things with their minds, change their eye color, lower their heartrates, start fires, sense other people's thoughts etc. I haven't personally seen the first three, but I have seen the fourth to some extent. I will extend the possibility that perhaps a fanatical christian believer with an unusual control over their minds, perhaps even unknown to the subject in question, may be able to cause capillaries to burst in these areas. If you believe in alternate religions such as Wicca, then you have probably have seen some evidence that magic, or the control of something through thought, can occur. Surely then , this stigmata, could be a related self controlled action. But as things go, when the bulk of the occurances of anything is in the distant past, and is used for impact today, I tend to not believe in them. And if it is anyway connected with the Catholic Church, I believe it even less. just my opinionated opinion!!!! |
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Good Day, I tend to lean towards pyschosomatic on the idea of stigmata, becuase each of the listed saints afflicted with this condition didn't seem entirely right in the head either (if you follow me?) BUT by that same token was it the very mental state they were/are in that allows them to physical relive the wounds of christ in a symbionic way? What is the purpose of stigmata? Imbas, which link are you referring to? Crystalinks or the Catholic Encyclopedia: New Advent ? It was through the catholic site that I was reading about the various afflicted saints... some of which seemed to be rather scary individuals, I might add. |
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| | | From: imbas1 | Sent: 7/19/2004 7:40 PM |
Hi, It was the New Advent site I believe. My guess is that, if the wounds do occur and they are psychosymatic (sp?), then they're purpose is to show how guilty the person feels for being human and have crucified the son of a god (as if that was possible...) Similar to the whipping themselves that some of these people do, though a lot of that is simply to cause a relaease of the mind from the body, (there's lots easier ways to do that too!) |
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guilt ... hmmm.... or maybe Leila is closer in the sense of being 'one with the christ' ... He suffered so shall I.... or maybe it is an ultimate expression of piety. One thing I am thinking though... and it goes hand in hand with my ideas of a 'soul/spiritual agenda' and that is that the must be a reason a soul has chosen to do this .... nothing is truly accidental. I also wonder how many other christian paths embrace stigmata... or is it a thing of the catholic faith? As I mentioned earlier, the saints I have been looking at have been in a large proportion catholic... on an aside... for a path that actively denounces magic and witchcraft they sure have a lot of weirdness going on in their own closets. |
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| | | From: Devine | Sent: 7/19/2004 10:27 PM |
There was a tv program on a while back(like a couple years ago) that looked at psychic phenomenon and tried to prove some of them. Totally honest no tv tricks and the last one they showed or tried to was stigmata. This lady spoke to 'saints' or the virgin mary or something also and she couldnot guarantee the showing of stigmata but she tried. So they got the lady to go into her trance and sure enough there was something happening. Unfortunately they 'ran out of time' to see it totally develop and they were going to run tests on the 'fluid' that appeared to determine if it was her blood or some other substance. It was an interesting piece but I believe it was a willed event perhaps aided by some unseen item to produce the blood. She had to go 'prepare' unseen and then lay in her bed to begin her trance, so I am not convinced totally her stigmata is a sign of God. I believe its a psychosimatic thing as well. People go into catatonic states when in shock or lift enormous weight in an emergency so why not stigmata. If one concentrates hard enough or believes strongly enough physical things happen. What about 'spirits' who leave marks on people? Isnt that like stigmata? A mark made by will or energy? Perhaps its not God but a passing entity who produces stigmata. I am sure early people who had marks were exorcised to remove the demons who had made the marks until someone especially devout compared them to Jesus' possible wounds. It is not unlike Christians to liken stuff to fit their needs just look at the whole holiday thing. The Amazing Randy has not proved one incident of Telekenisis and I am guessing there has been no bleeding on demand proven either. Once under scrutiny many miracles have a simple explanation. Just my two cents Devine |
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LOL... okay... good points both of them. But in light defense of the soul notion... think of it, if you have a soul that resonates to the christian doctrines of what divinity is (remember each of us has our own soul beliefs) then why not the possibility of this soul creating physical manifestations in its belief of redeemtion (whether its agreeable to others or not is irrelevant) through suffering ... what higher suffering can man offer then to emmulate(sp) the christ? As far as reincarnation... whose to say these stigmatas are not reincarnated christian holy wo/men .... or... dare I say it... saints, blasphemy at its highest, no doubt ... but if other great avatars of mankind can return, why not the christian saints? Also... bear in mind that so far many reports indicate a trance state or state of ecstacy that transcends normalcy altogether ... granted, this is the part where the psychosomatic theory has the greater weight. I am curious as to just what is going on inside their heads at such a time ... a nuerologists dream, lol |
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Very interesting article...I like and I'm going to pass it around to a few folks... if they don't find it here first, lol. Actually, its a pretty neat site altogether... thanks Leila |
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Not to mention that the soul under it's own guidance, may often be drowned out by the old men in black robes and white collars insisting they know what the soul's path should be...la la la la requiem.....
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