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Dake's Studies : Bible Proof That Old Covenant was Entirely Abolished
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 Message 1 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTweety134  (Original Message)Sent: 11/18/2007 12:29 PM
Dear Sechar,
Since you asked this question about when the Law of Moses was abolished. I would say that it was abolished when Jesus Christ died on the cross.  I will give you here just one study of the many topics on Sabbath and Law I have seen from my Bible.  Me and Freeborn were talking about it last night. I studied some things about the Sabbath awhile ago, when I got into a discussion about the 3 days and 3 nights. And if we ever do get into a study about that again, I would really like to ask a question about something that I read.  Tweety
 

Bible Proof That the Old Covenant Was Entirely Abolished

 

1. The whole law of God and Moses, including the ten commandments, and all the civil and ceremonial laws based upon the ten commandments, was done away with and abolished in Christ on the cross and the new covenant now takes the place of the old one. This is plainly stated in 2 Cor. 3: "Who hath made us able ministers of THE NEW TESTAMENT.... if THE MINISTRATION OF DEATH, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVEN IN STONES (the ten commandments); was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance WHICH WAS TO BE DONE AWAY.

 

For if THE MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION be glory, MUCH MORE doth THE MINISTRATION OF RIGHTEOUSNESS EXCEED IN GLORY. For even that (the old covenant) which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that (the old covenant) WHICH IS DONE AWAY was glorious, MUCH MORE that (the new covenant) WHICH REMAINETH is glorious.... not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that (the old covenant) WHICH IS ABOLISHED: But their minds were blinded: for UNTIL THIS DAY remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of THE OLD TESTAMENT; WHICH IS DONE AWAY IN Christ" (2 Cor. 3:6-15; Col. 2:14-17- Eph. 2:15). The word "vail" in this verse 14 is not in the original Greek, so it is not only the vail that is "done away," but it is the old covenant itself WHICH IS DONE AWAY in Christ on the cross.

 

Some people may need an interpreter to explain this simple passage, but to the common reader it is clear that the old covenant has been "done away" and "abolished" entirely and the new covenant has taken its place. The ten commandments were the only part of the law that was written and engraven on tables of stone so they were done away with on the cross (Ex. 24:12; 31:18; 32:15; 34:1-4, 27-35; Deut. 4:13; 5:22; 10:4). Some people argue that it was only the glory of the old covenant that was done away, but what good is an old covenant that has lost its glory? Why contend that we should keep it when we have a better and a new covenant that is more glorious and which remains in force? Paul argues that the old covenant was given in glory, so if its glory is done away the covenant itself is also done away. Leaving out the second "glory" in verse 7 and the second "vail" in verse 14, which are not in the original Greek, we have the fact plainly stated in both verses that it is "the old testament; WHICH IS DONE AWAY IN CHRIST." In verse 15 the old covenant is called "Moses" thus proving that Moses gave the ten commandments.

 

Note the following contrasts between the old and new covenants is 2 Cor. 3: the first is "old" and the second is "new"; the first brought "death" and the second brings "life"; the first was "glorious" and the second is "much more glorious"; the first brought "condemnation" and the second brings "righteousness" which frees from condemnation (Rom. 8:1-4); the first was of "the letter" and the second is of "the Spirit"; the first had "no glory" in comparison to the second "by reason of the glory that excelleth"; the first was "done away" and "abolished" and the second "remaineth"; the first came by "Moses" and was "done away in Christ"; the first required a vail to hide the glory because it was "the ministration of death" but the exceeding glory of the second can be looked upon with "open face" because it is "the spirit that giveth life"; and the first brought blindness and bondage while the second brings enlightenment and liberty and changes character by the Spirit of the Lord.

 

A mere change in administration of the old covenant, the failure of either party in keeping it, or the place where it is written does not change the covenant from an old to a new one. Nor does such change its glory in any sense, as some argue in trying to get around this plain Scripture which says three times that the old covenant was "done away" and once that it was "abolished" in Christ. Any change in the administration of a contract or the terms of a will would not change the will or contract itself. A will or a contract itself would have to be changed or a new one take the place of the old one if it would be "done away" and "abolished" as is here stated of the old covenant.

 

Why any cult, if its devotees had the slightest degree of honesty and faith that the Bible is the Word of God, would change the Word of God to fit some human theory is more than one can imagine. It would be much easier to accept the plain words of God and if human theories do not harmonize with them to throw such theories away and stick by God and His Word on all questions.

 

2. Christ came to "fulfill" the law before He "abolished" it on the cross (Matt. 5:17, 18). The Greek word for "fulfill" is plero, to satisfy, execute, finish, end, make complete, and cause to expire. It is translated "fulfilled" in connection with many prophecies which came to an end when they were fulfilled (Matt. 1:22; 2:15, 17, 23; 4:14; 8:17; 12:17; 13:35; 26:54-56; 27:9, 35; etc.). That the law also ceased to be in force when it was "fulfilled" is clear from Matt. 11:13- Luke 16:16; 24:27, 44; Gal. 3:19-25. The law was only a shadow of things to come and when these realities came the mere type, picture, or shadow of them was no longer needed (Col. 2:14-17; Heb. 4:1-11; 8:1-6; 9:1-10; 10:1-18).

 

3. "The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:17). This not only proves that the law was not made known before Moses, out that it was replaced by the new covenant of grace and truth when Christ came.

 

4. Law keeping was not required by the apostles: "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful TO CIRCUMCISE them [Gentile Christians], and TO COMMAND THEM TO KEEP THE LAW OF MOSES. And the apostles and elders came together for TO CONSIDER OF THIS MATTER. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said . . . Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear.... Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, AFTER THIS [the church age] I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down, and I will build the ruins thereof, and I will set it up.... Wherefore my sentence is, THAT WE TROUBLE NOT THEM, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, THAT they abstain FROM fornication, and FROM things strangled, and FROM blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him [his law, the old covenant], being read in the synagogues every sabbath. THEN pleased it the apostles and elders AND THE WHOLE CHURCH to send men.... they wrote letters by them AFTER THIS MANNER; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren WHICH ARE OF THE GENTILES.... Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us [Jews in the early church who have been under the law from birth] have TROUBLED YOU WITH WORDS, SUBVERTING YOUR SOULS, saying, YE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED, and KEEP THE LAW: to whom WE GAVE NO SUCH COMMANDMENT.... For it seemed good TO THE HOLY GHOST, and TO US, to lay upon you no greater burden than THESE NECESSARY THINGS; THAT ye abstain FROM meats offered to idols, and FROM blood, and FROM things strangled, and FROM fornication [all fleshly lusts as in Gal. 5:19-21]; FROM WHICH IF YE KEEP YOURSELVES, YE SHALL DO WELL" (Acts 15:5-29).

 

The apostles here did away with all keeping the law and circumcision and stated in no uncertain terms that Gentiles were not to keep the law of Moses, which included the old Jewish sabbath. This is the Christian position in all this age. However, if this decision could have been made by some modern teachers it would have been law and sabbath-keeping as the sum total of salvation.

 

Included in this apostolic decree that Christians are not to keep the law in any detail, was the very sign of law keeping which was abolished - circumcision. Even those who keep the Jewish sabbath do not practice this, thus proving again their inconsistency in requiring men to keep a law they themselves do not keep (Ex. 12: 44-48; Lev. 12:3; John 7:22-23). Circumcision was required as a sign of the covenant that God made with Abraham (Gen. 17:9-14). The new covenant does not require it (Rom. 4:11; 1 Cor. 7:18; Gal. 2:3; 5:1-5). This change proves that the new covenant is not the same as the one made with Abraham as taught by some people today. If it is the same covenant circumcision would also be required in the New Testament.

 



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 Message 2 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTweety134Sent: 11/18/2007 12:30 PM
This is PART 2 of the above study:  Tweety
 

5. Concerning meats and sabbath days: "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. LET EVERY MAN BE FULLY PERSUADED IN HIS OWN MIND. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.... But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.... So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. LET US NOT THEREFORE JUDGE ONE ANOTHER ANY MORE" (Rom. 14:1-13; Gal. 4:9-11; Col. 2:14-17). If the law of Moses, including the fourth commandment, was in force in the new covenant the above statements would never have been written by Paul. Each Christian can do as he pleases concerning the sabbath and he is not to be judged by his brother "ANY MORE."

 

6. Christian experiences do not come by the law: "Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?.... the law is not of faith: but, the man that doeth them [things of the law] shall live in them.... how turn ye AGAIN to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire to be in bondage?" (Gal. 1:6-9; 2:15-21; 3:1-12, 19-25; 4:1-3, 19-31; 5:l-9, 11-21). Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years [that the law required]. I am afraid of you, Lest I have bestowed labour upon you in vain" (Gal. 3:1-12; 4:9-11). Going back to observe sabbaths according to the law is spoken of here as going back into the bondage of the law. If one does this "he is a debtor to do the whole law" (Gal. 5:3).

 

7. The law was added because of transgressions, TILL THE SEED [Christ] SHOULD COME to whom the promise was made.... But before faith came [that Christ brought in the gospel and the new covenant, Heb. 12:1, 2], we were kept under the law, shut up unto that faith WHICH SHOULD AFTERWARDS BE REVEALED.... Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ THAT we might be justified by faith. BUT AFTER that faith is come, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER" (Gal. 3:19-25). Not being "under" law is here explained as being out from under its authority like one who is no longer under a schoolmaster when he graduates from school. The law is not in force and it has no claim or authority over the person under the new covenant. He is under the obligation to keep the new covenant laws and commandments, which include new laws that were never part of the old covenant, as well as those old laws that God saw fit to make a part of the new covenant.

 

8. The law, including the ten commandments, has been "CAST OUT": "Tell me, YE THAT DESIRE TO BE UNDER THE LAW, do ye not hear the law. For it is written, that Abraham had TWO SONS.... he who was of the BONDWOMAN was born after the flesh; but he of the FREEWOMAN was by promise. WHICH THINGS ARE AN ALLEGORY: for THESE ARE THE TWO COVENANTS THE ONE FROM MOUNT SINAI, which GENDERETH TO BONDAGE, which is Agar (Hagar).... and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and IS IN BONDAGE with her children. But Jerusalem which is above IS FREE, which is the mother of us all.... Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. BUT AS THEN he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that is born after the Spirit, EVEN SO IT IS NOW. Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN [the first or old covenant FROM MOUNT SINAI] AND HER SON [those under the law]: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, WE ARE NOT CHILDREN OF THE BONDWOMAN [the old ten commandment covenant and its many laws], BUT OF THE FREE [the new covenant]. Stand fast therefore IN THE LIBERTY wherewith Christ hath made us FREE, and BE NOT ENTANGLED AGAIN WITH THE YOKE OF BONDAGE [the old covenant].... For I testify again to every man that is circumcised [no man had any part in the old covenant unless he was circumcised], that he is a debtor TO DO THE WHOLE LAW" (Gal. 4:21-31; 5:1-5, 18).

 

Modern law keepers never mention this passage, for there is no possible way for them to explain such simple language as the old covenant "from Sinai" being "cast out" with all its sons who are under bondage and death. The old covenant of commandments that brought death has no more relationship to people under the new covenant than Hagar and Ishmael had with Sarah and Isaac. Abraham was the father of both Ishmael and Isaac, but Ishmael had no part in Isaac's inheritance (Gen. 21:9-21). God was the author of both covenants, but one was designed to bring death and guilt of sin, and the other was designed to bring life and freedom from sin. There can be no keeping of both, for the reasons given in Point 12 below.

 

9. The law was a covenant of types and shadows and was abolished when the realities of those shadows appeared. "Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity [the law of bondage and death], EVEN THE LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances... . BLOTTING OUT [making void] the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and TOOK IT OUT OF THE WAY, NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS.... let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of AN HOLYDAY, or of THE NEW MOON, or of THE SABBATH DAYS: WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body [or reality of which those things were mere shadows] is of Christ" (Eph. 2:15; Col. 2:14-17).

 

Followers of Moses today naturally attempt to explain away some of the Next Testament passages which state that the old law or covenant has been "abolished," but the more they attempt such an impossible job the more ridiculous their position becomes. It is like trying to sink a battleship with a blow gun. It cannot be done. In trying to explain away the passages mentioned above they say that "the law of commandments" referred to the ceremonial law, and that "the sabbath days" of Col. 2:14-17 were the ceremonial sabbaths and not the weekly sabbath.

 

It is strange that they take this position for wherever "commandments" and "sabbath days" are found at every other place in Scripture they argue that they refer to the ten commandments and the weekly sabbaths. This only magnifies the inconsistency of their doctrine as well as their plain and open rebellion against the Word of God. If they are the sole representatives of God on Earth as they claim it is strange that they would fight God and His own Word.

 

Regardless of what old covenant disciples say about these passages, it is certain that Paul was not one with them because he did not one time require men to keep any certain day, especially the old fourth commandment sabbath. The Greek word for "sabbath" is in the plural and the word "days" is not in the original language, so it should read "sabbaths." It is the same Greek word used of the weekly sabbaths in 59 other places, so it must refer to the weekly sabbath as well as any other sabbath of the old covenant.

 

The weekly sabbath as well as the other sabbaths is part of the ordinances given by God to Moses. The weekly sabbath was the first of eight feasts of the Lord in Lev. 23, "Concerning THE FEASTS OF THE LORD, which ye shall proclaim TO BE HOLY CONVOCATIONS, EVEN THESE ARE MY FEASTS. Six days shall work be done: but on the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, AN HOLY CONVOCATION; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD IN ALL YOUR DWELLINGS." After commanding this weekly "feast" and "holy convocation" the Lord next commanded the seasonal "feasts" and "holy convocations," which were to be kept "IN THEIR SEASONS" (Lev. 23:2-4). Thus we have a "weekly feast" and "seasonal feasts" and all were to be "holy convocations" and times of rest and holy worship.

 

In Lev. 23:38, after giving the seven seasonal feasts, which were given after the weekly feast, the Lord said, "These are the feasts of the Lord.... Besides THE SABBATHS of the Lord," referring to the weekly sabbaths, thus proving that the word "sabbaths" includes the weekly sabbath as much as it does all other sabbaths. See also Ex. 31:13-17; Ezek. 20:12, 20, or any place where "sabbaths" is found, and one will have to acknowledge that the weekly sabbath is included in the word "sabbaths" in Col. 2:14-17.

 

All these "feasts" were to be observed "for ever" (Lev. 23:14, 31, 41), so the theory of some that the weekly sabbath is the only eternal feast is unscriptural. All eight feasts were part of one eternal law that would have continued eternally if man could have kept his part of the contract. Since man could not keep it and there was no provision in it to make a man righteous and capable of keeping it, then it had to be set aside for the new covenant which does not have faults like the old one, as seen in Points 11 and 12 below. When the old law was "abolished," the weekly sabbath (the sign of the old covenant to commemorate the deliverance from Egypt) was done away, with all other sabbaths and parts of the old law. The fact is, that eternal terms are used profusely in the so-called ceremonial part of the law of Moses, but not one time are they used in connection with the ten commandments of Ex. 20:1-17, Deut. 5:1-21, so it can be proved with more authority that the ceremonial part of the law was external and the ten commandments were temporary if we are going to use eternal terms as the basis of proof.

 

The Greek word for ordinances is dogma, a civil or religious law (Luke 2:1; Acts 16:4; 17:7; Eph. 2:15; Col. 2:14). As we have already proved and will see more fully in Point X below, the ten commandments were part of God's law to Israel, and since the whole law has been abolished, there are no grounds to prove that the law of commandments in Eph. 2:15 refers to all the laws except the ten commandments. If such commandments were the basis of the whole law as all men agree, then they would have to be included in the law of commandments that was abolished in Christ on the cross. As we have seen in Point I above, it is the ten commandments that are singled out as having been "done away" and "abolished." As we have seen above, the weekly sabbath is part of the ceremonial law. Therefore, when men admit that the "sabbaths" in Col. 2:14-17 refer to the ceremonial sabbaths they state the truth, but this does not mean that the weekly sabbath is not included in all the old law ceremonial sabbaths.

 

10. The old law was imperfect and had to be changed. Christ came "after the order of Melchizedek" and not after the Levitical priesthood which could not bring perfection and under which "the people received the law.... For the priesthood BEING CHANGED, there is made of necessity A CHANGE [abolishment] ALSO OF THE LAW.... For there is verily A DISANNULLING OF THE COMMANDMENT going before for THE WEAKNESS AND UNPROFITABLENESS THEREOF. FOR THE LAW MADE NOTHING PERFECT, but the bringing in of a better hope did.... By so much was Jesus made a surety of A BETTER TESTAMENT. . . . For the law maketh men priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, WHICH IS SINCE THE LAW, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. . . . But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry [than old covenant priests], by how much also he is the mediator of A BETTER COVENANT, which is established upon better promises. For if THAT FIRST COVENANT [from Sinai, Gal. 4:21-31] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for THE SECOND. But finding fault with them, he saith . . . A NEW COVENANT, he hath made THE FIRST OLD [obsolete]. Now that [old covenant] which decayeth [is obsolete, discarded] and waxeth old is ready to vanish away [to be abrogated]. Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... Which was A FIGURE FOR THE TIME THEN PRESENT. . . . Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal [human] ordinances, imposed on them UNTIL THE TIME OF THE REFORMATION [setting things right of the new order] . . . for this cause he is the mediator of THE NEW COVENANT, that by means of death, FOR THE REDEMPTION OF THE TRANSGRESSIONS THAT WERE UNDER THE FIRST TESTAMENT, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth [the new covenant was not in force until Christ died]. Whereupon neither the FIRST TESTAMENT was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken EVERY PRECEPT [including the ten commandments] to all the people ACCORDING TO ALL THE LAW, he took the blood of calves and of goats.... and sprinkled both THE BOOK and ALL THE PEOPLE, Saying, THIS IS THE BLOOD OF THE TESTAMENT which God hath enjoined unto you.... For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, and NOT THE VERY IMAGE OF THE THINGS can never ... make the comers thereunto perfect.... Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He TAKETH AWAY [abolishes] THE FIRST [old covenant], THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND [new covenant]" (Heb. 7:11, 12, 22, 28; 8:6-18, 9:1, 9, 10, 15-22; 10:1-18).

 

The word "establish" here means to enact the laws of the new covenant, while the word as used in Rom. 3:31 means that the righteousness of the old covenant is upheld in the new covenant by fulfilling that righteousness in men, not by the keeping of the old law, but by faith in Christ provided by the new covenant (Rom. 8:1-4; Gal. 2:15-20, 3:1-14; 5:1-26).

 

The many passages in Hebrews and in the other points above are clear in themselves that the old covenant with the ten commandments and all the laws given to Moses were abolished, abrogated and annulled.

 

—Dake's Topics

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 Message 3 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameYESHUWAHsSent: 11/18/2007 2:32 PM
Since you asked this question about when the Law of Moses was abolished. I would say that it was abolished when Jesus Christ died on the cross.
 
Your premise is flawed, so there is no believing your words.
MT 5:17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
 
The only way top believe you is to disbelieve the Messiah.
 
Bible Proof That the Old Covenant Was Entirely Abolished
 
There is a difference between the old covenant and the Torah. We are told as much here:
HEB 8:7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. But God found fault with the people and said: "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws [Torah] in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
 
The Torah remains. The hearts of the people of Israel is what God changes.
EZE 11:17 "Therefore say: `This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will gather you from the nations and bring you back from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you back the land of Israel again. They will return to it and remove all its vile images and detestable idols. I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh. Then they will follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws [Torah]. They will be my people, and I will be their God. But as for those whose hearts are devoted to their vile images and detestable idols, I will bring down on their own heads what they have done, declares the Sovereign LORD."
 
This is also told to us by Paul:
RO 8:3 For what the law [Torahwas powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so He condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law [Torah] might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
 
Your assumptions are all wrong. It is nothing more than christian dogma.

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 Message 4 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 11/19/2007 3:51 PM

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Here we see proof that Jesus brought all of God's people into one body, or building of God.  There is no difference in any peoples today.  Until you can see this truth and accept it,  you will most certainly interpret all Scripture wrongly.

This plainly states that Jesus abolished that old law.


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 Message 5 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameTweety134Sent: 11/19/2007 4:25 PM
Amen to that Freeborn!  Tweety

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 Message 6 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameYESHUWAHsSent: 11/19/2007 6:40 PM

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Please notice that Messiah abolished the ENMITY all people have for God's 'law.' Have you ever read this?

ISA 27:2 In that day--Sing about a fruitful vineyard: I, YHWH, watch over it; I water it continually. I guard it day and night so that no one may harm it. I am not angry. If only there were briers and thorns confronting Me! I would march against them in battle; I would set them all on fire. Or else let them come to Me for refuge; let them make peace with Me, yes, let them make peace with Me."

Here we see proof that Jesus brought all of God's people into one body, or building of God.  There is no difference in any peoples today. 

I agree. All have sinned and fallen short of the Glorious One of God.

Until you can see this truth and accept it,  you will most certainly interpret all Scripture wrongly.

I do not interpret Scripture, though. I leave that to christians. You people are so absorbed by it.

This plainly states that Jesus abolished that old law.

Actually, it plainly states Messiah abolished the enmity for the 'law,' found in every unbeliever. Stop interpreting and you might start believing the truth instead of your christian dogma.


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 Message 7 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameShachar24Sent: 11/20/2007 12:34 AM
Amen Yeshuwah's, well stated
Shalom!

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 Message 8 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 11/20/2007 12:51 AM
No, You are the one who is changing the Word of God to try to fit your false teaching.
 
You changed the true wording of of Eph 2:15. When he said,  EVEN the law of commandments, this is explaining what the enmity is.
 
See , you cannot accept the truth of Written Scripture.  You do as all who are into false doctrine  = change the Word of God to suit yourself.
 
I do not.  I learn from Scripture exactly as it is written.  That is my truth and my safety.
 
If Paul were serving God, under that old law, and believing it as he stated,  then WHY DID HE HAVE TO CHANGE AND COME INTO THE NEW COVENANT,  if that old covenant belief were sufficient?

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 Message 9 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknameepe1129Sent: 11/20/2007 2:42 AM
the ' enmity ' is not for the ' law ' neither is it he  '  law ' . The ' enmity ' was the hatred between the Jew and the Gentile. Read the passage of Eph. 2. Notice that the two were made one by the blood of Christ. Christ fulfilled the law so we did not have to.
 
epe
 
p.s.  That is not interpreting Scripture by Christian Dogma, it is reading it ' as it is written ' ( as Jesus said many times ).

Reply
 Message 10 of 13 in Discussion 
From: DoveySent: 7/7/2008 1:42 AM
It's an absolute shame how main stream Christianity has been taught that God's Holy and perfect law is no longer ruling over humanity. It's right down mind boggling.
 
It's as if Almighty God, ruler of the universe, enforced a faulty law which no human can ever learn to obey. Does that really make sense??? Think about this for a moment.  If all God had to do was throw away His Commandments for man to be justified or be rigtheous before Him, there would have been no need for God to send His only Son to die in our stead.
 
The reason why God had to send His Son was because  "ALL" sinned. Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;What is the BIBLICAL definition for SIN??? I John 3:4 "Sin is the transgression of the LAW....".   That's it!!!! How plainer can that possibley be???
 
EPE..made a good point which I hadn't really looked at in that exact manner..but it makes absolute sense! The "emnity" most assuredly has been destroyed through the sacrifice of the Messiah. For those who will accept and believe.  Those who teach against God's law haven't gotten to that point of understanding because if they did understand..they wouldn't be teaching AGAINST God's holy and perfect law.
 
The main reason for all this anti-law teaching is to try and get rid of the 4TH COMMANDMENT.  The 7th Day Sabbath commandment to most is just TOO JEWISH.  Here is the "emnity" which EPE has pointed out.  Under Jesus....there is no Jew, Gentile, male or female.  ALL are one ...guided by ONE Spirit.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
 
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.
They can go on teaching against God's Commandments but God will have the last word when all is said and done.  IN God's coming Kingdom  His Law will be taught to all the world.  Humanity will learn to live by God's righteous laws.
 
Mic 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.     AMEN!!!
 
LOVE DOVEY

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 Message 11 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 7/7/2008 2:06 AM
It is a shame you adventist can't read the Word of God,  all of it.
 
The only people who do keep God's commandments are those of us who came into the New Covenant and do not try to undo what God did, by abolishing the old covenant.
 
we have taught enough here on the truth of this, to save the entire world,  if they could but READ.
 
But as you do not wish to have the truth,  you will remain in your darkness.
 
the 4th commandment,  4th commandment.  4th commandment.
 
Why don't you all get on some of the others  for a change?  Surely to goodness it would  much more good to get people to keep the first one.  or the second.  or the third?  etc?
 
 
Ok, I ask again,  TELL US WHAT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS    --- HOW  DO WE GO ABOUR  KEEPING THAT 4TH COMMANDMENT?
 
iF You can't or won't tell us,  the forever shut up about it.

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 Message 12 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 7/7/2008 2:08 AM
The law went out from Jesus.....and it is NOT that old covenant.   the Apostles gave it out.
 
whom none of you who PRETEND to keep the 4th  will not even acknowledge.
 
If you can acknowledge the SAVING  COMMANDMENT, GIVEN IN ACTS 2, 10, AND 19----  DO IT NOW.

Reply
 Message 13 of 13 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname®Larry_W_B_1©Sent: 7/7/2008 3:40 AM
1 Corinthians 14:37
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

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