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| | | From: joie (Original Message) | Sent: 8/17/2005 1:52 AM |
| From: joie (Original Message) | Sent: 8/29/2001 2:38 PM |  What is Grace? What is the purpose of Grace? Who has Grace? These are important question which need to be answered and understood by God’s people. I will attempt to bring some light on this important subject. Who was the first person in the Word of God to find ‘Grace�?in the eyes of God? Genesis 6:8--But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. Noah was the first person recorded to have found grace in the eyes of the LORD. What advantage was this to Noah? He alone with his family was saved when the destruction of that first world came. Noah closed out that age and started another age. Gen.19:19---Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shown unto me in saving my life: and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die: This is Lot talking to the Angel of the Lord who came down to Sodom to deliver Lot and his family from the destruction coming to Sodom and surrounding cities. So Lot was the second person recorded to have found grace in the eyes of the Lord. What advantage was this to Lot? He was saved from the destruction of Sodom. Now, for a great surprise ! Who was the third person recorded to have found grace in the eyes of the Lord? Ex. 33:12---And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people; and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me, Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight. v13--Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, show me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people. v14---And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest. (so, His presence and rest is part of the meaning of having GRACE). v15---And he said unto him, If thy presence go not with me, carry us not up hence. v16---For wherein shall it be known here that I and thy people have found grace in thy sight? is it not in that thou goest with us? so shall we be separated, I and thy people, from all the people that are upon the face of the earth. v17---And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken; FOR THOU (you) hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name. Now, see that Moses had tried to procure grace for the people, too. But God reiterated his first statement to Moses that he only had found grace in God’s eyes. Now, a marvelous thing happens: v18---And he said, I beseech thee, show me thy glory. v19--And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. (here God is telling Moses, I will grant GRACE to those I choose; not your people). v20--And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. v21--And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: v22--And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:�?/FONT> v23--And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. Now, a lot of revelation is in these passages of Scripture. The rock Moses is placed on is Jesus. We are said to be in his hand; so Moses was covered in Jesus�?hand. ` Now, the assumption here, by most churches, is that Moses was shown the law side of God’s dealings; that he was shown the O.T.; the ‘dark�?side; but right the opposite is true. FACE----in the Heb. dictionary--#6440 (Strong’s)---is used to mean fore time, against, anger, battle, fear of, front, heaviness, of old time, upside +down. Now, the fact of this is, Moses was actually NOT shown the first covenant, the law, the O.T., which was the first move, the old time, the time of battle, anger fear of disobeying, and the upside down thinking this has brought about. God said you can not see my face and live; why? Because the ‘face�?was the law, the first covenant. Shewbread is also in the meanings of face; so the shewbread is part of that first covenant. another one was time past. So he is showing, that there is no LIFE in that law; only death. Moses was not shown this; Moses was given life. This #6440 is from the the root word of #6437---which means to cast out,...empty, go away..pass away..turn aside, away, back face, self). So all this together proves that FACE meant that which was to pass away-=- the law. This is why Moses was not allowed to go into Cannan: that cannan land (which is the Israel today)--- was polluted, it is not the true Promised land. It says Abraham sojourned here; (but, he always counted himself to be a stranger there; he never accepted this as His place;) but he kept his eyes on a land very far off: the Holy City; the New Jerusalem; the New Covenant People; the Bride of Christ; He knew this land was not the true land for God’s people; it was for the bond-children (law people). So, since Moses, belonged to the Grace age, the true people of God, the Grace people, He did not go into this polluted land. He died, and was resurrected ( for he was seen alive on the Mt. of transfiguration with Jesus). Remember, Moses had found GRACE.....but those people had not; even though Moses had interceded with God for them to find grace. The word �?/FONT>back�?in verse 23 “thou shalt see my back parts�?--comes from Heb. # 268----the hinder part; hence behind, backward; also facing north, hereafter, time to come, without. Now, it is clear from this, that the ‘back�?part would be the New Testament; the time to come; the ‘hereafter�?(from his time). So, Moses actually saw the grace period; the time yet to come in his time. Moses was not shown the law; for this is death; this is darkness; bondage. Moses had grace; Moses was not in darkness; Moses had LIFE; Moses had GRACE!!! This is why the presence of God was with Moses; but not with the people. At one time God wanted to kill them all and save Moses and start another nation from Moses; but Moses interceded with God not to do this. God would not do it, for Moses stood between God and the people; so God did not look at the people; he looked at Moses; when he looked at Moses, he saw GRACE; therefore, He could not destroy Moses�?people. By the same token, when God looks at those of us who live by Grace, he does not see us; He is looking at Jesus; that is what Grace is; Jesus covers us; He is our covering; therefore, God sees us as NOT GUILTY. Now, go back and see that part of what he gave Moses was REST. But when you study Hebrews 4, we find that Jesus did not give those people REST. Only Moses had that rest. Not those people. Why? Because, Moses had entered into the true rest, He had the presence of God with him; He had GRACE. Now, what advantage is this GRACE? Read Exodus 34:7----Keeping mercy for thousands (remember this does not mean a certain number: it means those who learned and taught the truth)---forgiving iniquity and that will by no means CLEAR the GUILTY; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. Now, this shows that GRACE is a means by which mercy is granted; and one is not considered to be GUILTY. They are cleared; forgiven iniquity; not guilty!!! Glory!!! v8--And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped. v9---And he said, If now I --- (only I) ---- (here Moses accepts the fact that God rejected his plea for GRACE for this people)---have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiff-necked people; (here he acknowledges why this people did not obtain GRACE)----AND pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance. Now, for a glorious thing; look at 11Cor.3: Moses was ministering death (v7) to the people; yet he himself had life. He was ministering law; yet he himself had GRACE!!! v9--This ministration had glory; but this glory was to be done away. (you people are right; the law was not done away; you are still under it; but it is death; there is no glory left in ministering the law today). The children of Israel could not behold the face of Moses : for this ’glory�?was to be done away. (people, there is no ‘glory�?is administering the law today; those who have brought you back under the law, have no glory in ministering this to you; that glory was done away; there is NO glory in this today)---(v13---they could not look to the end of that which is abolished: (the end would have been the starting of the New Covenant; they could not see this). v14---their minds were blinded; only in Christ is this blindness taken away; only when one comes to GRACE; NO LAW. If you feel you HAVE to observe a certain day; HAVE to go to a certain church; HAVE to tithe; HAVE to any of these other things; you are under law; not GRACE. Condemnation (which the law was) and justification can not possibly exist together. Therefore, law and grace can not possibly exist together. In our day, you choose which one you will live by. Those of you who choose law; any part of the law; even one law puts you under the whole law, you fall from GRACE. Now, for a great thing: read v18---But we all, with OPEN face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory (that of the law) to glory,(that of grace), even as by the Spirit of the Lord. Now that word---OPEN---here... comes from the Greek # 343----It means to unveil; reversal; open; taken away. So, this is saying we (people in GRACE)---SEE THE REVERSAL OF THE OLD COVENANT---WE SEE CLEARLY THE GLORY OF THE LORD, AND ARE CHANGED INTO THAT GLORY. People, Jesus Christ brought GRACE to this whole world!!!! Never before had Grace been offered to anyone except a very few chosen; first Noah, Lot, Moses and a few other in the O.T. The sin of turning back to any part of the Law, since Jesus came and brought Grace, is the unforgivable sin: by this you trample the blood of Jesus, count it an unholy thing; think you must go back to law to live Holy, to be righteous, You do despite to the Spirit of Grace (Heb. 10:29)---v30--this brings on the Vengeance of God. My Lord and My God!!! Thank you for such a glorious understanding!! Thank you for this great message. I love you my Lord, Jesus. Jo | | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 8/30/2001 5:06 PM | We go be New Testament teachings. Read Galatians 5:18---But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are NOT under the LAW. So, those going under the Law are not led of the Spirit, v19---Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleaness, lasciviousness, v20--Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, v21--Envyings, MURDERS, drunkeness, (now where did the old law say you can not get drunk?)--revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. So, you see, the New Testatement teaches us what to do and what not to do. But it is different from the law. Where in all of this did he say keep any sabbath? It is not there. Where did he say pay tithes? It is not there; nor is it taught any where else in the N.T. Yet, Holy living is explained in detail. See , you go to foolishness in thinking that if we go by Spirit, instead of the law, that we will commit all maner of sins; such as adultry or stealing. No these things are expressly taught as New Testament living. v22---But the fruit of the Spirit,( remember he is speaking of those of us who are led of the Spirit---we are not under the law---but look at what kind of life he GIVES us---this is his grace---this gift of holiness)---- is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, v23--Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. v24---And they that are Chirst's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. Now, where did they have that blessed place under the Law? It did not exist. See, we live Holy because he gave us his Holy Spirit. Jo | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 8/31/2001 5:19 PM | | Apostle, I never changed anything. I have said all along that every word of God is law. But the 10 commandments is not that law. That is precisley Moses law. It is not mentioned until then. Now, I ask you , what law if Paul speaking of in Romans 5, when he said Until the law--- then he said they Law entered---- Now you tell us , what law entered? There is no mention of any 10 commandments till Moses went up on that mountain and received them. That is the law of Moses. Abraham obeyed what ever God told him to do ; this was the law he obeyed. The Word plainly teaches that Abraham was not under law. You and others do not know what it means----being under the law. I ask all of you to show us, by New Testament scripture; after the day of Pentecost, after Paul brought in the Grace age; show us one scripture telling the Church to keep any sabbath. It is not there. The only mention in the New Testament of any sabbath is where they were still under the law and went into the temple on the sabbath. Jesus was still under the law; but he was also bringing in the the new covenant; that is why he 'worked' on this sabbath day; he was showing the freedom of the N.T. covenant. Now, people are saying they still have to keep sabbath; but they want the freedom of the N.T. Bother, this will not work. If you believe you must keep it, you had better get back to doing it the way God told them to do it. They try to cover up and say the Pharisees put a bunch of stuff on it ; but I submit to you all, there were no Pharisees when Moses told them how to keep it. You are damning your souls trying to keep it, but not do it the right way. You put yourself under that law, then try to live by the freedom of us who do not keep it. Show us a New Testament Scripture telling us to tithe. or keep the law of Moses. You know the true Apostles told them not to do that. That is why you prevert the word and say the 10 commandments is not Moses law. If not, find where the N.T. tells anyone to keep sabbath. It is not in there. That weekly sabbath is of the flesh = resting the body. We are not in the flesh. The NT sabbath is the rest to the soul, given to us by Jesus = the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. to claim we now need that old fleshly sabbath, is to deny this rest of the soul, which is given to us, by faith, not the works of the flesh = resting. | |
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| From: Wanna | Sent: 9/17/2001 9:55 PM | | Apostle, You keep asking Joie why she dont answer you but she has done told you over and over that the scripture in Heb. is talking about rest in Christ. Not Not Not rest in any silly little literal day. Every little natural day for us is the same as each one we are not to put one day above another. I cant understand why in the world you simply cannot get a hold of this. We can sit down and rest our little bodies whenever they get tired. God is not regulating such a silly thing as when we should rest our natural bodies. For goodness sakes. Why cant you come to see this. It realy is not that hard to understand you just dont want to. Wanna | |
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P.s. this green is bad on the eyes, but the message is so good, I will post it. Hope some of you read these two. It is a great revelation about the 'rest'. | From: joie | Sent: 9/17/2001 11:23 PM | | Dear Apostle, Maybe this will help you. Gen.2:1--Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. God totally FINISHED all, all, of his work in those 'six' days. Now, this could have been six kinds of days; say as a day of grace; or a day of millieniums; who knows; anyway this does not alter the fact of what is taught. God had completed what He was doing. That is why He RESTED; He 'rested' his 'case. (so to speak). He was finished. He was not going to do any more creating. It was finished. God blessed and sanctified this day because He had 'finished' doing what He was doing. Now, Brother, our 'labour' is not finished. Jesus' labour of bringing many Sons to glory is not finished; so, we must labour while it is day; for the 'night' cometh, when no man can labour. After God RESTED, then the Lord God started creating another world, a flesh world of the dust of the ground. His work is still going on. So, that rest has not occured yet. His labour is still going on. Dear one, THAT is the world you and I belong to; not the one in chapter one. Our labour is still going on; our labour is to rest in Jesus. Labour to enter into that rest. This is a great mystery. Pray for understanding. That is if you desire understanding; else you will be left out in the dark. Jesus said he came to FINISH the WORK God gave him to do; this is to bring many sons to glory; he is still working on that; even though it was finished at calvary; it is still going on. His rest has not come yet; we must go with that. When his rest comes, we will rest with him. Until then, labour to enter into that rest. My soul is at rest; but my body must still labour on until resurrection. I must say, though, you are a brave soul; all of the other sabbath keepers have droped out. Maybe, you will finally see the real truth and enter into the true rest; it is every day. If you keep at this, maybe you will win the prize. JO | | Reply
| | | From: joie | Sent: 9/17/2001 11:37 PM | | I want to add this; God showed me this after I sent the above message. God rested from all his labour; for it was finished; completed; he needed to do no more. It was a complete rest; from now on. This matches the resurrection for us. That is what his rest represents; not the weekly bodily rest. See, this 7th day rest, given by Moses was only a partial thing; as was all of the O.T. things; parts. It is not the counterpart of God's rest; our resurrection is. That is when Jesus' labour will be complete; when he shall have brought us to their image; to glory. Then Jesus will take his rest; and we will enter into that rest; that will be his seventh day. This is when we come forth in incorruptiblity. That is what God's rest is to go with; not the weekly rest; this does not match God's rest. It is not what we should be going by now; for it denies the completed, finished work of God's creation. A partial rest would show a partial , unfinished work of God's creation. So, this partial rest showed the future, unfinished work of Jesus' work. But we are not to show that now; we are to look forward toward our completed creation of coming forth in the likeness of the Son of God; a new creation in His gloriour image. That is why we are not to do the rest-in -part. I do hope you can see this; it is so beautiful. Jo | | |
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| Joie; That was a pretty speach but that is not what the scripture says! The scripture does not say that he never worked after the Seventh day . It does not say that his work was finished for all time. It says the work of those six days of creation called mornings and evenings were finished. But as soon as the seventh day was passed his work days began all over just as ours does. there was another morning and an evening, another morning and an evening for six more days, and then another seventh day to rest from his work again. Read the whole second chapter of Genesis. In the second Chapter he then planted a garden in Eden and etc. His work is never finished except at the end of the sixth day of his work, six mornings and evenings, and then the seventh day comes again and he blesses it and sanctifies it again and again! Yahweh reveals by the prophets that it never changes in Isaiah 66: 22-23. For as the new heavens and the new earth shall remain before me so shall your seed remain before me and your name. 23. and it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another shall all flesh come up to worship before me, Saith Yahweh. This is the kingdom of Heaven that he is talking about in Isaiah 66:22-23 , Now you have set yourself up to judge God and all God's people, for being evil and fallen from grace in the New heavens and the new earth for coming to gether from one new moon to another and from one sabbath to another to worship Yahweh. Shame on you!~ I beseech you as dear children to be followers of God! Kaveat! | Reply
| | | From: joie | Sent: 9/18/2001 10:33 PM | | Apostle, You make the same mistake almost every one else makes: you assume that the second chapter creation is still God's work. But it is not. God finished His work. He did no more. There is no Scripture to say He did any more. The starting of Chapter two changes from saying ' God' created; to saying ' the Lord God made'. There is a 'world' of difference. You did not receive the REVELATION of this: that is why you can not see the truth. God CREATED a SPIRIT WORLD in His likeness and image. That is NOT the world you and I are part of. It is the spirits. Our 'house' not made with hands, eternal in the Heavens is there. The Lord God, being flesh, made a world of 'dust creatures'. This is still going on. God's creation is finished. Jesus' work is still going on. His work is making us into a new creation: to come forth some day in the likeness of His resurrected, glorified body. Compare the two chapters: they do not match in any kind of way. If you think that God 'picked back up' with His work, that he been doing in chapter one, tell me why it is stated in cp.2:5---....and there was NOT a MAN to till the ground.? If this is a continuation of God's work----He had already made man on the 6th day; why does he say in chapter two (which you said was the 1st day of the next (literal) week--- that there was NOT a MAN? Maybe you should stop 'judging me' and get back to studying. Why was man made on the sixth day AFTER all the trees and animals in chp. one----- but in chp. 2---man is made BEFORE any of the trees and animals? Lets' make a verse by verse study and comparison of these two chapters. Any body want to do this??? Jo | p.s. I have to add, that to take the stand this man did, that God must have been tired, and had to rest , then pick back up on his work...goodness! He thinks God was tired, and needed rest. No. It said his work was FINISHED. and it was very good. did not need anymore done to it. He finished it all in chapter one. my, how shallow people are to the Word of God......and thinking of God as a man like us.......needing to rest from his work, as in TIRED. shew! | |
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p.s. this man actually says, below, that God needed to rest from being tired. I can't believe that anyone could be that ignorant of God. to think that one would go this far to back up this false church's doctrine of sabbath keeping! To accuse God of being as a man, in that he gets tired.....and to say that God is forever creating his world! In other words, this man says that God never finished his work in those six days. But God said he did. Here it is: | Joie; Lets use another scripture to rightly understand what happened what happened in Chapter one of Genesis and chpter two of Genesis. Yahweh does not leave this without a witness as to what happened in these two chapters. Exodus 20: 11. For in six days Yahweh made (not created) heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is; and rested the seventh day; wherefore Yahweh blessed the sabbath day, and hollowed it. What is wrong with your reasoning that you can not see that it would be wickedness to say that That God was evil to keep a Sabbath on the Seventh leiteral day . And it is evil to say that that was a part of another spiritual creation, and to infer that that first chapter was a different creation than what he was talking about in Exodus 20:11. In Genesis 2: 8 It says, and this is after he rested the seventh day and blessed it and sanctified it. This is after he had made the heaven and the earth and all that in them is, he says, 2:8 And Yahweh God planted a garden eastward in Eden; Joie do you know the extent of planting a Garden? that is work, and that is what he did after he had rested the seventh day and sanctified it . But ofcourse , that is what he has been doing for 5,979 years since then .......Resting on the seventh day , meeting with his saints, and then going back to workafter he is rested and refreshed on the literal seventh day. Joie? Why do you think that it is "Sin" to rest and be refreshed like God did? Do you think that it is "sin" to rest after a hard day of work and you become sleepy and drowsy , is it sin to succum to the feelings of sin and drowziness because of Mathew 25 where the foolish virgins slumbered and did not keep the lamps burning? Do you think possibly that some day you will not have to sleep because it says that God that keepeth Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps? Is sleep possibly bringing you under the curse of the law too? Because it is another form of "rest" other than a spiritual one ? You see sleep is a litral form of "rest" and God does neither sleep nor slumber? But in all of God's form of neither sleeping nor slumbering, He still literally rested on the litral seventh day Sabbath at Creation, before sin ever was a part of this world, no matter if it were a spiritual creation it was a literal creation in those six days , Animals, Birds, the sun and the Moon and the stars, the literal days and the literal nights were lierally created and made and set in their proper ordinance during that literal time. There is no where in the second chapter that he recreated or remade any thing ! Kaveat! | Reply
| | | From: joie | Sent: 9/19/2001 2:21 PM | | Apostle, You are so far off the truth of this Word, it is dangerous. You need to stop trying to prove me wrong and do some serious studying. God never needs to 'rest' in the sence that you are speaking of. In the same sence that He never needs to 'sleep'; he also never needs to 'rest'. The rest means just what that verse said; His work of creating the heavens and the earth of His world, was FINISHED. He never resumed creating the heavens and earth; for they were finished. If you think He resumed creating (his work) the next day, you have to be saying He had not finished creating in the six days and had to do some more next week; and next week etc. But this is not taught in the Word. His heaven and earth were finished and very good. It never needed to be redone. But, the being making another heaven and earth in the second chapter is the Lord God; not God. There is where you are missing the truth revelation. The Spirit world and the natural world are two different worlds created by two different beings. The natural world is still being worked on to bring us to the image of God. We are not there yet. You will not find where it said that work was finished and that creator rested. He is still working. It is not equivelent with our 'work', physicially. Of course I will someday be to where I do not need to sleep; for I will be given my 'house' from that first chapter creation; eternal in the Heavens. Created by God. I am now living in an earthly 'house' made by hands; by the Lord God. You can't seem to get your mind off natural things for even one minute to see something Spiritual. That is your trouble; you 'sabbath keepers' are so earthly minded you are to the point of 'mocking;' God. JO | | Here is solid proof that I am speaking truth here, not this man. Here is where God said that he FINISHED making his world, before he rested: | Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. | | And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 9/19/2001 11:11 PM | | Apostle, You still will not deal with what I pointed out that if Gen.2 is any kind of repeat of Gen.1--and it God picking back up with His work, why does it say there was not a man? God had made man on the 6th day, then why does the next Sunday start with him again making man? Why did it say there was not a man? The Scripture itself shows which meaning is meant. Since God does not need 'rest' from being tired; and since it says he had finished his work, it shows he rested his work; same as an attorney 'rest' his case when he is finished. The rest God delights in the the One Jesus gives us. The rest to the soul; which Isa. 28 shows to be the Baptism of the Holy Ghost ; with the Spirit uttering in us as he fills our temple. I choose that rest; it is the one God delights in. If Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of ANOTHER DAY. If this is the same as the 7th day rest, why did it say he spoke of ANOTHER DAY. THIS OTHER DAY IS THE TRUE REST. THIS IS THE HOLY GHOST. THANK GOD FOR THE TRUE REST. Jo | Reply
| | | From: Wanna | Sent: 9/19/2001 11:27 PM | |  Heb.4:9 There remaineth therefore, a rest to the people of God.
v10 For he that has entered into his rest has CEASED from his own works, as God did from his. v11 Let us labor therefore to enter into THAT rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. Wanna | | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 9/20/2001 2:20 PM | | Beffers, Do you also believe that God Almighty, was 'tired' and had to rest? Then I can see why you will not accept that God can and does heal by prayer; that he can and does 'speak' to his people. You have no knowledge of God; for you reject the Holy Ghost. Never one time have I said that I teach from visions and dreams. You and every one who reads what I write, knows that my messages are full of Scripture proving Scripture. You have twisted what I said about it not mattering: You know it: we have been through this before: You know that I said it would not change the true meaning. And I still say that. No matter how many meanings a word has, the context of the Word with other Scriptures on the same subject, show which meaning is meant. You have put yourself into bondage; walking in the flesh. For the law is flesh; not spirit. It is the letter which killeth; the spirit which gives life if the law of Love; of life in chirst Jesus. Galatians 5:14---For all the law is fulfilled in ONE word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Galatians 3:10--For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:.... now that is where you all put yourselves; under the curse. If you prefer the curse to the blessing, at least I tried to show you the better covenant. v18---For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Gal.4:10---Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. I say the same to you and apostle, I have bestowed labour on you in vain. I read that mess he put on the Catholic board of trying to say he knows the time of the return of Jesus by those old Jews 'days'. It is idolatry and foolishness. You two are the ones who have been sent the strong delusion. You are the one who denies the N.T. ways of God. You are the one who denies God can give spiritual dreams, visions, tongues, healing, and speak to us. The N.T. declared that God does all these things. If you BELIEVE, in my name you shall cast out devils, speak with new tongues, heal the sick, not be hurt by poison or snakes: now I ask you where are these signs in your life? Why do you resist the thought of God healing the sick by prayer? Do you believe that he lost his power? Why? Why does He not give spiritual dreams any more? Why not visions? Why are you against the New Testament way of God? You admitted that you were enjoying discussing these things with me until I revealed that God has spoken to me and given me dreams and visions. Well, He has; and I thank him for it. I am not ashamed of these great blessings from my LIVING God. You must think he is dead or too old, or too tired, or retired (still at rest)---to act as God anymore. No wonder you are all so afraid. You have no real God to trust in. You really need to do some serious considering of these things. You are totally rejecting the N.T. way of salvation. God will continue to pour out his wrath on this sinful nation: for you have almost all rejected His way. JO | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 9/21/2001 8:34 PM | | Beffers, You know that I have never said I 'depend' on signs for anything. But, Jesus himself said IF YOU BELIEVE THESE SIGNS SHALL follow. Now, You say you do not need signs, for you live by faith. Then you are calling Jesus wrong; for he said if you believe these signs shall follow. I read on the Catholic/Adventist board post after post where you were arguring against healing by prayer or any of these other works of the Spirit. I am not going to go over there and cut and paste it; for you know what you said. You are just not understanding that there is a difference in the Law of sin and death (o.t. law) and the Law of life in Christ Jesus. The law of liberty that you spoke is NOT those 10 commandments: it is the law of life in Christ Jesus. If life comes by keeping laws, then Christ died in vain. Also you know that I have NEVER told anyone to break the commandments: I said what Paul said: that we live holy by the Holy Ghost. Why do you not really listen? It is because being 'under law' Christ is of no effect to you. Gal5:4-- The reading of the O.T. blinds you. 11Cor.3:14---But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Now, blame Paul; he is the one who said it. I taught my teachings by the Word of God only; and you all know it. I had been teaching on computer since March, and had never even mentioned these things until recently. Some people had asked me to do some personal testimony so they would have reason to believe me. THEY were the ones going by signs; not me. I believe God with or without them. I stated in my testimony that when God tells me something in the Spirit, that I do not even accept it till He shows me it is in the Word. Did you not read this? How much do you really study the Word? How long have you been studying it? I honestly believe some of you do very little reading of the Scripture; it is like a first grader trying to dispute with a college professor. Now, I know you will all take this statement and slander me; but I am only making an example. I have been digilently studying the Word (not some other man's comentaries about the Word) almost all my life. Take it any way you want to. You have twisted every thing else I have said. But, I tell with the Words of Peter, you rest the Word to your own destruction. JO | Reply
| | | From: joie | Sent: 9/21/2001 8:45 PM | |  Hello Ambassador, Welcome to our community. I sincerely hope you will enjoy being a part of this board. I certainly liked what you said. You seem to have a very good understanding. I do agree that faith goes hand in hand with miracles happening. For that is what Jesus and the Apostles taught. If not, then how is God magnified and glorified and shown in our lives? How are we witnesses of God? A powerless life does not witness of God. I hope you will continue to post on the board. Again, welcome and thank you for joining. Jo | | | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 9/22/2001 2:08 PM | | Beffers. We teach what Hebrews says: that the O.T. doings were only types and shadows of the things which came in the N.T. We do not tell anyone to 'break God's commandment'. But, the 7th day Sabbath was only a 'type' of the N.T. Sabbath. We KEEP THAT SABBATH. It is the one you should be keeping; but you reject it and go back to the O.T. Sabbath. That is what I am trying to get you to see. We do not kill; we do not lie; we do not steal; we do not bear false witness; but the difference is we are living a Holy Life by the Spirit of the Holy Ghost; this is the N.T. Sabbath. If you reject this, you will be lost. For, doing the 'works' of the O.T. law will not save you. You do despite to the Spirit of Grace in doing this. The place the difference is shown is in transferring from the 7th day 'rest' to the 'rest' from our own 'works' of the law. Read my message on Daily. I have quoted many, many Scriptures proving that Jesus, Paul, and the others worked every day; they ministered every day; they did not observe any stop and rest day. Jesus said I work and my Father works on this day. Why can't you see this? You are working now, on the 7th day by working on your computer. Why can't you see this? You go fishing on this day; Isa. said this is why God rejected their doing it; because on the Sabbath, they did their own pleasure. So, see, you would be on much safer grounds if you just came on up to Grace. Heb. 11: 6--But without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Gal. 3:12--And the law is NOT of FAITH; but the man that doeth them shall live in them. The Law is NOT OF FAITH; without faith it is impossible to please him; how much clearer does it need to be? This says it is impossible to please God by the law. Romans 9:31--But Israel, which followed after the LAW of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32--Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the WORKS OF THE LAW. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone. Here, again the Words says the law and faith are not together; it is impossible to have faith and go by the law. This says so; not me. Rom. 10:4---For Christ is the END of the LAW for righteousness to every one that BELIEVETH. This says believing puts and end of the law in ones life; this does not mean we then go out and live sinful lives. That is false teaching. Be ye Holy for I am Holy, said God. He gives us His Holy Spirit, and thereby we are Holy. I will try to paste those things you wanted me to do later: i do not have time now to do it. I have been on a long time; i need to get off computer and do some other things. God bless you; I do hope and pray you will study these Scriptures and let God show you. Jo | Reply
| | | From: joie | Sent: 9/22/2001 5:44 PM | | Beffers, Here is a copy of a post on the other board, where you likened me to Jim Jones and others or that nature because I testified that God spoke to me. Now, I have always made it clear that God always proves what He tells me by the written Word. No one can find any place where I have not made this clear: that you can not teach or believe anything not written in the Word. I went back and re-read some of the posts on healing; I was scanning real fast before; you did not absolutely deny this; but made it clear that you doubt it happening much. So, I ask you outright---do you agree with prayer and laying on of hands to heal sick? Tell us if you believe in and practice this. Now, here is a copy of your post likening me to the cults of this world because God shows me Holy dreams and visions and speaks to me. Why do you think God will not do these things today? Joie and I got off to a rocky start in that community but after we set things straight between us it went well. She's in love with Jesus. That is evident. But I have one problem. She said "But one day, God spoke directly to me and said, There is a difference in the Father and the Son. The Father is a greater, more powerful being than the Son. I KNOW God said that to me; not a person; God. His Spirit came to me just as clearly as any person could be, standing right in front of me, and spoke directly to me. Since then, He has taught me the Word himself." Well, need I say more Apollo? Doesn't the Catholic church depend alot on visions, manifestations and miracles for evidence of truth from God? Reminds me of a verse: | 2Cr 11:15 | Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. Joie dear, if you're listening, be very careful. I am suspect of those who claim special revelation. Remember Waco? Jonestown? And the like? Based purely on your teachings on the law I believe your visions to be of an imposter. My opinion only. God bless your family. |
In the above post; you are calling me a minister of Satan. Why? Because God reveals Himself to me? Does not the N.T. teach that this is God's way? Why would your belief cause you to turn on someone so, because of these Scriptual manifestations of God? I say it is because you do not have the Holy Ghost, the N.T. rest.
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| From: joie | Sent: 9/22/2001 6:04 PM | Beffers, You never did see the truth of what I said ; I did not say I did not care about the meaning of the word 'fulfill'; I said no matter which meaning you thought was there, it would not change the other teachings in the Word which clearly proves this truth. That is what I said; you changed it and tried to make foolishness out of it. That is the very reason all of you cannot truly understand N.T. teachings; you can not see the differenct in keeping law and living by grace. You are blinded by that old testament. If you mistrust visions; you would have to mistrust Peter; did you never read about his vision on the house to? You will have to mistrust Paul; he said he had more than them all. You will have to mistrust the thing on the mount of transfiguration; for they said this was a vision. Need I say more? What do you think God is? A deaf and dumb idol? Do you think He can not come to us and TALK to us? See, this proves to me that you have never truly met God. You really need to check up on your DEAD religion. All of you. Why? Why do you believe God can not manifest Himself to someone today? It is because you are under a DEAD Old Testament; which was rejected by God himself. Heb. says it decayed. You are under a decayed religion. So, just mock on. In the end you will find out that you were serving a dead idol; a lifeless god; not a live God who still speaks to his true people. I pray you can open you heart and hear truth. God bless this to your understanding. Jo | Reply
| | | From: Beffers | Sent: 9/24/2001 1:47 AM | Joie said: We teach what Hebrews says: that the O.T. doings were only types and shadows of the things which came in the N.T. We do not tell anyone to 'break God's commandment'. But, the 7th day Sabbath was only a 'type' of the N.T. Sabbath. We KEEP THAT SABBATH. It is the one you should be keeping; but you reject it and go back to the O.T. Sabbath. That is what I am trying to get you to see. Why do you confuse the 7th Day Sabbath of the Ten Commandments with the OT. sabbaths? When are you going to understand this? You need to study this further and stop posting out of hate and prejudice for God's Holy Day. Notice very, very carefully the following: The Sabbath of the Lord The ceremonial sabbaths a) Kept by both God and man a) Kept only by man Lev. 23 Gen. 2:1-4; Ex. 20:8-11 b) a weekly event b) Yearly events c) Commemorated an event in the past (creation) c) Pointed forward to the future work of Christ for our redemption d) Originated before sin d) Instituted after sin and as a result of sin e) Part of the Ten Commandment law e) Part of the ceremonial law f ) Because it is part of the Ten f) Part of the "handwriting of ordinances Commandment law which Paul that was against us." Only a "shadow calls "holy, just, and good", the Sabbath is of things to come." and not really the such an institution. As Christ put it, it was substance Col. 2:14-17 made for man. Rom. 7:12; Mark 2:27 g) Part of the everlasting covenant. According g) Part of the old covenant. According to OT prophecy, "the day is to be observed to OT prophecy the Massiah would in the Messianic age" See Isaiah 56:4-8 bring an end to the sacrifices assoc- compare John 10:16 iated with these days. Daniel 9:27 Lev. 23:37 "These [are] the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim [to be] holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:" Lev. 23:38 "Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD." It is right before your eyes Joie. No personal interpretation needed. Read the rest of Lev. 23 after vs. 38 to see what these sabbaths are. I suggest you go back to Ekklesia's post in "to sabbath or not to sabbath" reply 116 We do not kill; we do not lie; we do not steal; we do not bear false witness; but the difference is we are living a Holy Life by the Spirit of the Holy Ghost; this is the N.T. Sabbath. If you reject this, you will be lost. You have listed four of the ten Commandments you admit to obeying. Prevously you told this community you obey all of them. Including the Sabbath. The NT Sabbath as listed in the Ten Commandments is not what you have described above. It is not!! Read the Commandment Joie: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work, But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates" Joie the Commandment is speaking of a day. A day Joie. Not a spiritual condition because of what Jesus did. The sabbath you speak of does exist but it is not replacing what the commandment states. The Commandments stand together and you cannot blatantly and sinfully separate them. What you're telling us is that you will obey nine of them, but the 4th Commandment you replace with another. gain Joie, the Commandment speaks of a day. For, doing the 'works' of the O.T. law will not save you. You do despite to the Spirit of Grace in doing this. Get your laws straight Joie. Get your sabbaths straight too. The place the difference is shown is in transferring from the 7th day 'rest' to the 'rest' from our own 'works' of the law. What a ridiculous interpretation and excuse to disobey a direct command of Jesus:"If ye love me, keep my Commandments." John 14:15 Here's another one you should stop ignoring: "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:3 Interesting Joie when these verses are presented to you, you become very hush, hush about it. Tells me alot hun! Read my message on Daily. I have quoted many, many Scriptures proving that Jesus, Paul, and the others worked every day; they ministered every day; they did not observe any stop and rest day. Jesus said I work and my Father works on this day. Why can't you see this? Don't you pay any attention to what Apostle, Oliver, Ekklesia, myself and others say? What works is Jesus speaking of here? You are an expert at taking verses out of context. Go back and read their posts. Open your hard heart and closed mind and stop letting sinfull prejudice against sabbaths keepers stop you from learning from others than yourself. You are working now, on the 7th day by working on your computer. Why can't you see this? You go fishing on this day; Isa. said this is why God rejected their doing it; because on the Sabbath, they did their own pleasure. So, see, you would be on much safer grounds if you just came on up to Grace. These comments demonstrate that you are completely nieve to what God intends for His children on the Sabbath day. And how is it an anti-Sabbath keeper as yourself knows so much about Sabbath keeping and has the nerve to accuse us of breaking it? I told you before, there are guidelines God gives us on how His day is kept. Do you know what the term "your own pleasure" means? What do you consider "own pleasure?" If I go fishing alone with my sons, on a quiet stretch of lake, conversing with them peacefully and enjoying our father/son time together, is that honoring God or is it my own pleasure? What if our family hikes the hills on Sabbath, enjoying creation? Is it our own pleasure or are we worshipping God? You tend to view Sabbath keeping from the Pharisees point of view. You restrict us Joie by determining through your own blind eyes how Sabbath should be kept. God gives us freedom to choose what we will do too honor Him. What is self pleasure to one is worship to another. It is the intent of the heart God looks at. Jesus did acts of kindness. He worshipped. And I explained to you Joie that there are different ways to worship God. Your ways may not be mine. So don't tell Sabbath keepers they are disobedient when you have never, but never, experienced true Sabbath keeping. Sabbath keeping from the heart. You're in no position to judge. You mention the computer. There are thows who consider the computer to be of great value when witnessing. That is their own choice to do so. Neither you (especially) nor I can judge. Only God knows their intent. Rom. 10:4---For Christ is the END of the LAW for righteousness to every one that BELIEVETH. This says believing puts and end of the law in ones life; this does not mean we then go out and live sinful lives. That is false teaching. Be ye Holy for I am Holy, said God. He gives us His Holy Spirit, and thereby we are Holy. Joie dear, like "fulfill", you don't understand the meaning of "end" as used in the above text. I posted this previously to you but you ignored it. I'll paste it again for you. Justification comes through the merits of Christ. Not the law. Joie, do you know what the term "end" of the law means? You have too. You cannot put your own meaning here to satisfy your beliefs. You're refering to Romans 10:4 here. "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth." Does this teach that the Ten Commandment law came to an end through the ministry of Christ? No way Joie, no way! The word "end" is used here in the sense of "end objective" or "goal." The objective of the law is to lead us to Christ. Notice how this same word is used in James 5: 11. "Ye...have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful and tender mercy." This doesn't mean the Lord came to an end. It means that the whole end objective of His life is to show pity and mercy. Again we read, "Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls." (1 Peter 1: 9) Here the end objective or goal of one's faith is the salvation of the soul. Last one Joie: "Now the end of the commandment is charity..." (1 Tim. 1: 5) It means that obedience to the commandment will lead one to charity. In the same sense, Christ is the "end of the law," because the law leads to Christ. The law did not come to an end!! God bless Joie! Beffers | | Reply
| | | From: joie | Sent: 9/24/2001 10:24 AM | | Beffers, I had a good answer almost finished to this; but some kind of way i hit something wrong and lost it. So now, I am a little tired to try to do it all again. Maybe latter I will do a better job of this. I go by what is taught for N.T. Christians. Jesus did not tell the church to keep the law; Paul said no, none of the other apostles or writters of the Word told the church to do this. You try to separate the law of Moses up into two different cattagories to try to line up with the Word and still keep Sabbath; but it is not true. You say I am going by what Pharisees said; but no; Moses is the one who said if you do ANY work on that day you should be killed. It was not Pharisees. It was Moses. If it is still law, that still applies also. You just do not want to really go by what Moses said. Show Scripture where God commanded people to do this before Moses time. The word says Grace and truth came by Jesus; but the law came by Moses; yet you all still try to say it is not Moses' by God's law. Peter COMMANDED Cornelius' household to be baptised in the Name of the Lord Jesus. I ask you, where is this COMMANDMENT in the O.T.? You see, I live holy because Holy living is taught in the N.T. But, it is not by law. It is by the Spirit of the Holy Ghost. I keep the N.T. Sabbath. Why can't you see that? It is the rest to the soul. You say you don't go by those old laws: well, let me ask you this, do you believe you must abstain from Pork and other such 'unclean' flesh? I am not prejudice against you as you state; no. But I know what the Word teaches on this subject, and I am not going to let those of you who are still in the darkness of the law, drag me there; and cause me to fall from Grace. Jo | p.s. It is clear from the above, how those adventists twist Scripture and say it is their choice as to how they 'keep' that seventh day sabbath. Now I want to ask, where is any Scripture saying this?//////// just choose how you wish to keep it and do whatever suits you? Where is that? Pharisees? Never read that. How could he say I do not do it, if that is the way to do it. I do as I wish to also, on Sat. Their twisted version of keeping a sabbath will never hold up to God's test of Scripture. they would be safer to take the stand I do than to say they must keep it and pervert it such a way. One does not 'keep it' if they so much as go out their door or pick up a stick, or make a fire or any work of any kind. Yet they claim they have the right to chose how to do it. God has never said such a thing. It is clear they make up their own religion. | |
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Now watch their lack of understanding of the work of Jesus. Still calling food unclean: | From: Beffers | Sent: 9/25/2001 1:02 AM | Joie, I had an answer for reply 58 of yours Joie and I hit the wrong button also. Gee that is frustrating. I'll get to it when I get home. Anyway I'm at work and this one sentence caught my eye. "You say you don't go by those old laws: well, let me ask you this, do you believe you must abstain from Pork and other such 'unclean' flesh?" "Must?" Nope, I don't. Do I? Yes! Why? Because the unclean foods mentioned are bad for the body. This is medically proven. The issue of unclean foods is not a salvation law but a health law. Do individuals who eat pork have eternal life? Of course! Salvation is through Christ. The unclean foods are mentioned by God to protect our health. Joie, these health laws are still valid today for those who desire a healthy lifestyle. You may eat and drink as you wish, but you run the risk of bad health when engaging in the consumption of questionable foods and drink. Now you wouldn't take drugs would you? Of course not. Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. You know what drugs do to it. The same for unclean foods. You may eat them if you choose, but because of their makeup you chance sickness and disease. Will you lose your salvation eating pork? Not in the least!! Beffers | Reply
| | | From: joie | Sent: 9/25/2001 5:56 PM | | Hello Beffers, Acts 10:`9-16----Here we are told of a vision Peter had three times. It this vision, all manner of creatures were let down from heaven in a sheet; Peter was told to rise, kill, and eat. Peter refused on the grounds that he had never eaten any thing that is common or UNCLEAN. v15---And the voice spake unto him again the second time. What God hath CLEANSED, that call not thou common. This was done three times: for in the mouth of two or three witnesses God establishes everything. So, this shows that Jesus cleansed EVERY creature on earth when He died. People have no idea what really happened at Calvary. No creature today is unclean. That is what I wanted to find out of your belief. See, I happen to know the Seventh Day teachings pretty well: I had an aunt in your organization; she and I used to discuss these things a lot. And I have studied about it in other places. I know they still teach out of the O.T. about unclean animals. But that is denying the cleansing work of Jesus. Nothing is unclean today. Pork will not hurt you any more than beef or fowl. Romans 14:1----Him that is weak in the FAITH receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. v2---For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, WHO IS WEAK, eateth herbs. 1Tim. 4:1-6---Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times come shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; v2---Speaking LIES in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; v3--Forbidding to marry, and COMMANDING to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanks-giving of them which believe and KNOW THE TRUTH. v4--For EVERY CREATURE of God is good, and NOTHING to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving; V5---For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. v6--If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a GOOD MINISTER of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of FAITH and of good doctrine, where unto thou hast attained. Now, don't you see, that all this shows we do not have 'unclean' meats today? It shows that those 'weak' in faith, are the ones who believe this. It shows that if we bring this to your remembrance, we will be good ministers of Jesus. So, teaching that all meats are clean in the N.T. is being a good minister; it is good doctrine. So this proves that this is what Jesus desires us to teach. I just wanted to show you how the 7th day church is still in the O.T. Covenant; not the new. My brother, I hope and pray you will see the truth of all this. Come to the New Testament. When Paul said be not entangled again with the 'yoke' of bondage, what do you think this 'yoke of bondage' is ? JO | | | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 9/26/2001 12:18 PM | | v2---For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, WHO IS WEAK, eateth herbs. 1Tim. 4:1-6---Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; v2---Speaking LIES in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; v3--Forbidding to marry, and COMMANDING to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanks-giving of them which believe and KNOW THE TRUTH. v4--For EVERY CREATURE of God is good, and NOTHING to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving; V5---For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. v6--If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a GOOD MINISTER of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of FAITH and of good doctrine, where unto thou hast attained. Now, don't you see, that all this shows we do not have 'unclean' meats today? It shows that those 'weak' in faith, are the ones who believe this. It shows that if we bring this to your remembrance, we will be good ministers of Jesus. So, teaching that all meats are clean in the N.T. is being a good minister; it is good doctrine. So this proves that this is what Jesus desires us to teach. I just wanted to show you how the 7th day church is still in the O.T. Covenant; not the new. My brother, I hope and pray you will see the truth of all this. Come to the New Testament Now, you see, I did not have to go by what was said to Peter. You just willfully overlooked the above Scripture. Sure, I know that Peter's vision also pertained to the Gentiles; but that does NOT do away with the fact that God also showed Peter that no animal in now considered 'unclean' since Jesus died and cleansed the whole earth. That is where you do not see FAITH. You do not live by faith; you do not believe the truth. The blood of Jesus and the prayer over the food cleanses it of anything harmful in it. By the Power of Jesus. That is where you are missing it. Sure, if you go by 'science' = carnal men, you will find all kinds of things you can not do , which people of faith can do. You are not depending on Jesus to be able to keep his word, that the prayer sanctifies the food; that it shall do you no harm. That is what I am trying to get you to. But, if you do not wish to live by the faith of the New Testament, that is up to you. I will quit trying to help any of you. I am very tired of this 'getting no where' computer work. I am not going to keep this up. I had truly hoped I could find someone whom I could help; but I see now that it is not to be. Mark 16:17---(I know you do not accept this; even before I write it; but I am going to show this this one time; then I am finished with all this waste of my time)-- v17---And these signs SHALL follow them that BELIEVE; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; v18--They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any DEADLY thing, it SHALL NOT HURT THEM; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Now, this word says all these things SHALL happen to those who BELIVE. Do you call this word a lie? If not, why are you afraid to eat anything you desire? Because in you heart, you believe man instead of God. Jesus had NOT cleansed those animals in Moses' day; so sure, he told his people not to eat them. But, the person weak in faith today is the one who still thinks this applies to us today. Those of us who know the truth, and believe it, know we can eat anything, according the the N.T. teachings; for we know Jesus cleansed it. It is doctirines of DEVILS to forbid it. It is lack of faith; it not believing the written word; it is being in the O.T. covenant. By the O.T. covenant shall no one be saved. There I leave you. I will not again address this. I do not feel right now, that I will be back on the computer. It has been of no avail. I am wasting my time. I need to get back to my own studies and prayer life. Good day to you all. I have enjoyed all of you. I thank each of you for participating in this community. I only came back this last time because Wanna wanted so much for me to give it another try. Well I did, and now I feel I must let it alone. It is not your fault. It is things which have happened to me on some other boards. I have been so hated and lied about and my messages called every evil in the books; till I just know I can not help anyone. I had so hoped that I could. Beffers, I have especially enjoyed the way you have stayed with this subject; but I see I can not help you. At times you say things which make me think you despise me as so many others do. But, as a whole you have been very nice. Appolo, Rod, Josh, Barbie, Dean, Stranger, Glory, and so many other, You have been nice to. I thank each of you. May God richly bless each of you in your walk with him. Right now, I just do not know when I will be back; or if I will be back. So I am saying to each and every one of you, I love you; I appreciate your being part of this community. I hope each of you find a great place in the kingdom of God. Keep on with this work as long as you desire. Wanna will probably still be on at times and help keep it going. Rebecca is back in college now, still working, so therefore she does not have time for this. Again, God bless each of you. Jo | | Reply
| | | From: Beffers | Sent: 9/26/2001 1:20 PM | | Well God bless you too Joie. But between you and me, I believe you'll be back. What I don't believe is that in spite of all the diseases and filth that some animals spread in this day and age, that you could still say "all" animals are clean. It just boggles my mind. As for Acts chapter 10 (Peter's vision), I'm not even going to waste time on it anymore. It's unreal that people can still think God is talking about all animals as being clean and fit for consumption in light of verse 28. How can you misinterpret this so easily? I repeat my statement, "why don't you start eating vulture or bat or mole and see how long it takes you to get sick. Or howabout a nice fat rat." Does this make any sense to even the most irrational mind? I sure hope not! Beffers | | | Reply
| | | From: joie | Sent: 10/14/2001 10:06 PM | | O.K. forget about Peter's vision. Go by this Scripture: ---For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, WHO IS WEAK, eateth herbs. 1Tim. 4:1-6---Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; v2---Speaking LIES in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; v3--Forbidding to marry, and COMMANDING to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanks-giving of them which believe and KNOW THE TRUTH. v4--For EVERY CREATURE of God is good, and NOTHING to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving; V5---For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. v6--If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a GOOD MINISTER of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of FAITH and of good doctrine, where unto thou hast attained. Now, don't you see, that all this shows we do not have 'unclean' meats today? It shows that those 'weak' in faith, are the ones who believe this. It shows that if we bring this to your remembrance, we will be good ministers of Jesus. So, teaching that all meats are clean in the N.T. is being a good minister; it is good doctrine. So this proves that this is what Jesus desires us to teach. I just wanted to show you how the 7th day church is still in the O.T. Covenant; not the new. My brother, I hope and pray you will see the truth of all this. Come to the New Testament Now, you see, I did not have to go by what was said to Peter. You just willfully overlooked the above Scripture. Sure, I know that Peter's vision also pertained to the Gentiles; but that does NOT do away with the fact that God also showed Peter that no animal in now considered 'unclean' since Jesus died and cleansed the whole earth. That is where you do not see FAITH. You do not live by faith; you do not believe the truth. The blood of Jesus and the prayer over the food cleanses it of anything harmful in it. By the Power of Jesus. | | |
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The following is a great message on grace: | From: Lynette | Sent: 10/18/2001 9:15 AM | | Grace vs Condemnation
What I am seeing in my own personal life is what the word repent truly means. It has become a daily act on my part to pay attention to those things HE hates as they are brought to my attention. This causes a check in my spirit the next time I head that way, AND causes me to STOP doing whatever it is. THAT is GRACE! And His Grace is sufficient.
We know that the scripture says that many will be purged, purified and refined but the wicked will continue acting wickedly. These "wicked" are not necessarily the terrorist or anyone else that might fall in that category. It is not necessarily the heathen. The Word is speaking to His people.
The ones being purified are those who SEE what it is He hates, which causes us to tremble, knowing we have been guilty ourselves; repent and then receive the GRACE to STOP doing it.
The wicked are those who would rather point the finger and scream repent to the rest of the world, as they stand in righteous indignation thinking they have "arrived." (I was guilty of this sinful state myself believe me.) This ACT is condemnation. But you see, the Word says the wicked are condemned already. They are simply the outpouring of the spirit that they have followed. The condemned are the ones who condemn. (Reader understand that this condemnation will not necessarily lead unto eternal damnation, for He is revealing this spiritual condition of His people and showing us that He has geared the tribulation at these in order to CLEANSE them of this.)
Look at the following closely:
The 3rd heaven is where divine order exists, where our LORD dwells.
In the expanse between heaven and earth is where all wickedness (in spiritual form) dwells.
On earth is where that divine condition of the Lord's reign is revealed to those who tremble at His word and immediately run to the mirror when "sin" is revealed because of our LOVE and OBEDIENCE to Him.
During this process is when another (spiritual) enemy is put under our feet, GRACE is received and we move on.
The LORD intends to continue to show those "who tremble at His Word" these things which He hates so as to purify the temple on earth. Why? So that GRACE can come and more abundantly. Why? So that His manifested grace in the true believer may declare (display) His Grace to a lost and dying world.
We are coming quickly to a time when that grace will consume us (manifest completely) and we will each individually have put His enemies under our feet.
Anyone that does not see or believe that really does not believe that Christ has been formed WITHIN them. Those who do, will be filled up to the fullness thereof and be a tremendous blessing to the world as we come to the end of the dominion of sin as it exists today.
The wicked speak out and their spiritual condition is revealed. Their words condemn.
The true child of God speaks out and their spiritual condition is revealed. Their words bring GRACE. The entire reason for the end of the age is to bring these to our attention. It was not too long ago that I myself was found guilty of condemning my neighbor for something they had done to me. But in my sin, which displeased the Father tremendously, I found the true meaning of His Grace. What my neighbor does is of no concern to my emotions, but that person starring back at me in the mirror when I brush my teeth, IS. When I saw this condition in my own life, repented, and found that awesome grace, THEN I was able to effectively pray for my neighbor. Condemnation must stop in the body of Christ, for it is condemnation coming out of Christians mouths that destroy and keep our LORD'S precious GRACE from being seen. Our job is to display Jesus. Grace is just one of those characteristics we love in Him so. (The above is a letter I posted on another message board and is not meant to be targeted at any one individual. It is simply the truth of what the LORD has shown me regarding grace. We all have different beliefs (faith) on what to eat, what not to eat, what to wear, what not to wear, what church to attend, etc... But that really isn't the issue. If the LORD gives us faith to eat all meat....that is a blessing indeed...If he gives us faith in healing,....wow...another blessing....But the important thing is not to be concerned if everyone else has not received that faith, but to love them and show them an attitude of compassion and mercy......If we do that, I have faith that everything else will fall wonderfully into place.) Blessings, Lynette
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| From: Baldy | Sent: 10/18/2001 9:56 PM | | Grace is simple if we think of it as Gods Riches At Christs Exspense. For Christ was everything to God and He gave us the best gift He could give to bring us out of bondage and into redemption. The old testament saints saw the promise from afar and pressed towards the mark. Ephesians 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Ephesians 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, | Reply
| | | I think I will stop here for the night. I have truly enjoye dgoing back to the beginning tonight to read all of the wonderful messgaes. Freeborn, I am putting all these messages on my hard drive. And I have put them in folders that I set up. You will never lose your messages. I want everyone to read this message about grace. It is truly a great message.
Have a great night. Tweety | | Reply
| | | Thank you precious Tweety. I love this message so very much. You are right. This message on Grace is one of the most beautiful things God has ever given this world. | | |
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