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| | | From: Masugu (Original Message) | Sent: 7/25/2003 12:24 AM |
Hi Folks;
It's Thursday again and it looks as though Cecile's brickwall is gonna go into the loss column-- sorry Cecile. I think you're gonna have to do some more leg work to narrow down the possible locations on this before we can help.
We're only posting two brickwalls this week because I'm still in the process of determining whether there's anything more we can do for Okie (aka Carol) in re SHOGREN/FOSSEDAL, which we've hit pretty hard in the past.
Our brickwall for this week is Bob's, entitled "SMITH/CHENEY family HELP PLEASE ", it was originally posted on 31 Oct 2002, and updated on 6 Feb 2003 and 23 July 2003. A digest of the most recent update follows:
Theodore W. SMITH b. Chambersburg, Franklin, PA,
m. (poss. Martha ???) from "Painshill", MD (our thinking is that it may be Paint Hill--there is also a Painters Mill in MD)
son Theodore William SMITH, Jr. b 19 Nov 1861 Franklin Grove, Lee Co., IL d 29 May 1939 Springfield, Sangamon Co., IL
md. 1 1891 Ophelia (CHENEY) Sangamon Co., IL, chdn Clifford b 1892 and Lowell b. ???
md. 2 her sister Phoebe (CHENEY), no issue
md. 3 Anna (lnu,) chd Cecil (poss. Cecile?) b. 1907
Bob is looking for help with Painshill, Cecil or Clifford
*******
After Bob is Gail with "WIGGINTON, SIMMONS, ADAMS, WILSON, GODDARD", posted on 31 Oct 2002, and updated on 6 Dec 2002. Gists of Gail's messages follow:
Looking for Charles WIGGINTON's parents and Jeremiah ADAMS
ADAMS, Jeremiah Franklin b.4 Feb 1847 d. 25 Feb 1910 Preston, IL, md. Margaret WILSON 25 Mar 1879
ADAMS, Jeremiah b. 27 Aug 1801 d. 15 May 1853 Chester, Randolph Co., IL
GODDARD, Rebecca A. b. 30 Jun 1815 d. 19 Mar 1884 unk
GODDARD, Reuben b. May 1793 d. 4 Apr 1827 Sparta, Randolph, IL
WILSON, Edward Howard b. 24 Dec 1821 d. 25 Apr 1884 Baldwin, Ranodlph, IL
WILSON, John b. 1784
McDONALD, Susannah b. 28 Jan 1830 d. 26 Feb 1898 Baldwin, Randolph, IL
McDONALD, James b. 16 Apr 1799 d. 16 May 1840 Preston, Randolph, IL
WIGGINTON, Albert b. 31 May 1872 d. 2 Aug 1945 Colorado Springs, CO
WIGGINTON, Charles W. b. 25 Jan 1836 d. 10 may 1904 buried in cemetary behind Fairview Baptist Church loc outside Sparta, IL,
md. Melissa SIMMONS b.12 June 1841 d. 24 Feb 1906 also buried in cemetary behind Fairview Baptist Church
Gail has tried to reach someone at the church with no luck -- if someone knows how to reach the pastor she would appreciate an e-mail with the info. Gail, do you care to update again?
*******
Cheers, Wayne |
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| <INPUT id=rec1 onclick=onClickRecord(this) type=checkbox name=rec1> <INPUT id=type type=hidden value=5 name=type> | Clifford SMITH | | | | | Birth Date: | 11 Aug 1892 | | | | Death Date: | Jan 1986 | | | | Social Security Number: | 324-01-2707 | | | | State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: | Illinois | | | | | Death Residence Localities | | | | ZIP Code: | 48080 | | | | Localities: | Saint Clair Shores, Macomb, Michigan | | | St Clair Shores, Macomb, Michigan | | Clifford SMITH | | | | | Birth Date: | 28 Aug 1892 | | | | Death Date: | Feb 1970 | | | | Social Security Number: | 341-07-9324 | | | | State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: | Illinois | | | | | Death Residence Localities | | | | ZIP Code: | 60637 | | | | Localities: | Chicago, Cook, Illinois | | | Jackson Park, Cook, Illinois | | | Either could be your Clifford or not Found two Celia Smith's born 1907 in IL | <INPUT id=type type=hidden value=5 name=type> | Celia SMITH | | | | | Birth Date: | 7 Feb 1907 | | | | Death Date: | Jun 1986 | | | | Social Security Number: | 358-12-7773 | | | | State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: | Illinois | | | | | Death Residence Localities | | | | ZIP Code: | 67831 | | | | Localities: | Ashland, Clark, Kansas | | | | Celia SMITH | | | | | Birth Date: | 6 Sep 1907 | | | | Death Date: | 14 Jul 1992 | | | | Social Security Number: | 325-26-9801 | | | | State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: | Illinois | | | | | Death Residence Localities | | | | ZIP Code: | 53511 | | | | Localities: | Beloit, Rock, Wisconsin | | | Shopiere, Rock, Wisconsin | | | Tiffany, Rock, Wisconsin | This info came from the LDS site Penny |
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Reply
| | | From: Masugu | Sent: 7/25/2003 4:37 AM |
Hi Bob;
I found the marriage record of Theodore W. Smith and Martha Rhodes. They were married in Frederick MD, which is the next county over from me and borders PA. I've got a query in with the Frederick County Historical Society--lets hope it bears fruit. Below you'll find the record of the marriage I found on line--I ran across some sites which offer copies old Frederick Co. Marriage licenses for sale. There's also a list of all the MD towns as of 1875--no Painshill listed. Cheers, Wayne
SMITH, THEODORE W.
Spouse: RHODES, MARTHA E. Marriage Date: 7 Oct 1856
County: Frederick State: MD
1895 US Atlas (http://www.livgenmi.com/1895md.htm)
MARYLAND "P"
COUNTY SEATS IN CAPS
City or Town Name
Population
County
Area of State
Has Post Office?
Has Railroad?
Has Express Office?
Paradise Baltimore North No Yes Yes
Park Hall 40 St. Mary's South Yes No No
Park Mills 53 Frederick North Yes No No
Parkton 102 Baltimore North Yes Yes Yes
Parkville Baltimore North Yes No No
Parole 37 Anne Arundel Central Yes No Yes
Parran 46 Calvert South Yes No No
Parsonsburgh 150 Wicomico Southeast Yes Yes Yes
Patapsco Anne Arundel Central No Yes Yes
Patterson's Allegany Northwest No Yes Yes
Patuxent 64 Anne Arundel Central No Yes No
Patuxent Anne Arundel Central No Yes No
Pearl Frederick North Yes No No
Pekin 424 Allegany Northwest Yes No Yes
Peninsula Junction 27 Somerset Southeast Yes No Yes
Pennsylvania Avenue Baltimore North No Yes No
Percy Siding Allegany Northwest No Yes Yes
Perry Hall 41 Baltimore North Yes No No
Perryman 271 Harford Northeast Yes Yes Yes
Perryville 344 Cecil Northeast Yes Yes Yes
Petersville 210 Frederick North Yes No No
Philo Washington Northwest Yes No No
Philopolis 96 Baltimore North Yes No No
Phoenix 570 Baltimore North Yes Yes Yes
Pikesville 340 Baltimore North Yes Yes Yes
Pindell 36 Anne Arundel Central Yes No No
Pine Orchard 42 Howard Central Yes No No
Pinseburgh Washington Northwest Yes No No
Piney Grove 41 Allegany Northwest Yes No Yes
Piney Point 20 St. Mary's South Yes No Yes
Pinto Allegany Northwest Yes No No
Piscataway 70 Prince George's Central Yes No No
Pisgah 37 Charles South Yes No No
Pittsville 160 Wicomico Southeast Yes Yes Yes
Plane Number Four 63 Frederick North Yes Yes Yes
Pleasant Hill Cecil Northeast Yes No No
Pleasant Valley 117 Carroll North yes No No
Pleasantville 86 Harford Northeast Yes No No
Pleasant Walk Frederick North Yes No No
Plum Point 42 Calvert South Yes No Yes
Plyer Montgomery Central Yes No No
Pocomoke City 1866 Worcester Southeast Yes Yes Yes
Point Lookout St. Mary's South Yes No Yes
Point of Rocks 364 Frederick North Yes Yes Yes
Pomfret 60 Charles South Yes No No
Pomona 65 Kent Northeast Yes No No
Pomonkey 72 Charles South Yes No No
Poolesville 314 Montgomery Central Yes No No
Pope's Creek 67 Charles South Yes Yes Yes
Poplar Springs 75 Howard Central Yes No No
Port Deposit 1908 Cecil Northeast Yes Yes Yes
Porter's 35 Carroll North Yes No No
Port Republic 87 Calvert South Yes No No
PORT TOBACCO 132 Charles South Yes No No
Port Tobacco Station Charles South No Yes Yes
Potomac 127 Montgomery Central Yes No No
Powellville 134 Wicomico Southeast Yes No No
Powhatan 310 Baltimore North Yes No No
Preston 300 Caroline East No Yes Yes
Price's Station 32 Queen Anne's East Yes Yes Yes
Priceville Baltimore North Yes No No
Primrose Baltimore North No Yes Yes
PRINCE FREDERICKTOWN 257 Calvert South Yes No No
PRINCESS ANNE 865 Somerset Southeast Yes Yes Yes
Principio 128 Cecil Northeast Yes No Yes
Principio Furnace 360 Cecil Northeast Yes No Yes
Principio Station Cecil Northeast No Yes Yes
Prospect 65 Harford Northeast Yes No No
Pumphrey 30 Anne Arundel Central Yes Yes No
Purdum Montgomery Central Yes No No
Pylesville 80 Harford Northeast Yes No No
Pylesville Station Harford Northeast No Yes Yes
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Reply
| | | From: Masugu | Sent: 7/25/2003 6:27 PM |
Bob;
The Carroll County Historical Society responded in record time--unfortunately their answer was in the negative. The response follows. Cheers, Wayne
"I don't find any mention of Painshill in Frederick County nor is it listed in the book Placenames in Maryland." |
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Reply
| | | From: Masugu | Sent: 7/26/2003 9:40 PM |
Bob;
Here are a couple of possibles for Cecil in the 1930 census. Cheers, Wayne
1930 Census, IL, Madison Co., Wood River Twp., Roxana Village, ED 98, Sheet 3B, Page 65,
Roll ?, Book ?, April 4 1930, Address: Elm St.
Cecil Smith, Head, Rents, 22, M, 21, IL, IL, IL, Pipe-fitter--oil refinery
Harriet Smith, Wife, F, W, 20, M, 19, IL, IL, IL, None
1930 Census, IL, Sangamon Co., Springfield, ED 29, Sheet 16B, Page 75,
Roll ?, Book ?, April 14 1930, Address: 815 South Douglas St.
Emma Smith, Head, F, W, 64, Wd, IL, OH, IL, None
Cecil G. Smith, Roomer, M, W, 23, M, 23, IL, USA, USA, Draughtsman--Baster works
Mary Smith, Roomer, F, W, 23, M, 22, GE, GE, GE, Operator--tele co.
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Reply
| | | From: Masugu | Sent: 7/28/2003 7:14 PM |
Hi Bob;
On the assumption that Painshill was an unofficial placename (common in MD as people named mills, farms, hills, manors, etc. with no official registry--one of my wife's ancestor's was born on an Eastern-shore farm named Wallacey, one which no longer exists), I looked for people named Pain or Paine in 1830, 1840 and 1850 Frederick, MD. I found records in all three (see below). I also looked for Payne and Pane with no results. It appears that the John Paine of the 1830 census, was probably succeeded by his widow by 1840. By 1850, both were gone and their probable children scattered and in low-paying jobs--suggesting that the property had been lost to the family.
I then used Google to see whether I could find a relationship between the Rhodes and Paine/Paine families in MD and PA (if Martha was b. at Painshill, and it was named after a local family, then its a good bet that the Rhodes were related to them). I found lots of sites which included both Rhodes's and Pain's (some quite prominent) in their trees. It looks as though they moved around among VA, MD and PA.
In addition, I found this tantalizing posting in re the Paine family in MD, posted by: Henry Pitts Dated: September 27, 2002
I am looking for any information on my gg grandfather, Alan Paine of Maryland. Alan would have been born around 1815 to 1825. We have been told that he was an orphan from Pennsylvania. He had a son, Gen. Clinton Paxton Paine who was born 10/18/1847 and died 3/14/1902. Alan Paine owned land in Baltimore, Carroll and Frederick counties, but we can't find any information as to his ancestors. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Finally, I found a Paine's Hill near Troy, Bradford Co., PA (up north) some of whose settlers came from Maryland. The URL is http://www.rootsweb.com/~pabradfo/craft/troydc.htm. Bradford Co. also figured fairly prominently in my search for Pain's.
These people may have been the family for whom Painshill was named. Conversely, Painshill may have been named after the famous English Park of the same name in Cobham, Surrey. I'm afraid this is all I can do on Painshill, although I will look through the Frederick records at the local library next time I'm there. Cheers, Wayne
1830 Census
Name: Paine, John
State: MD
County: Frederick
ED: 3
Page: 58
Image: 117
Roll: 57
1840 Census
Name: Pain, Catherine
State: MD
County: Frederick
ED: 3
Page: 181
Image: 52
Roll: 166
1850 Census
Name: Paine, William
State: MD
County: Frederick
ED: Middleton
Page: 322
Image: 239
Roll: 293
Name: Paine, Hillery
State: MD
County: Frederick
ED: Middleton
Page: 333
Image: 261
Roll: 293
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Searched for Pain* & Pay*. Below are the results specific to KY or MD or PA Paint Branch Farms Maryland Montgomery County 39:04:50 N 076:59:39 W Paint Mills Pennsylvania Clarion County 41:15:05 N 079:24:51 W US
Painters Crossroads Pennsylvania Delaware County 39:52:51 N 075:32:50 W 425 US
Paine Pennsylvania Elk County 41:21:44 N 078:34:34 W US
Paintersville Pennsylvania Mifflin County 40:38:58 N 077:27:09 W 559 US
Paint Pennsylvania Somerset County 40:14:37 N 078:50:57 W 1177 US
Placename State County Lat/Long Elevation Population Remark Postal code Nation
Painter Run Pennsylvania Tioga County 41:51:36 N 077:03:29 W US
Paintertown Pennsylvania Westmoreland County 40:21:00 N 079:41:36 W 1194 US Payne Kentucky Graves County 36:39:49 N 088:39:03 W 542 US
Payne Gap Kentucky Letcher County 37:09:19 N 082:39:34 W 41552 US
Payneville Kentucky Meade County 37:59:22 N 086:18:47 W 816 40157 US
Payton Kentucky Morgan County 37:48:08 N 083:17:57 W US
Paynes Depot Kentucky Scott County 38:08:31 N 084:37:25 W US |
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Reply
| | | From: mrlucky | Sent: 7/29/2003 2:55 PM |
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Thank you Wayne for all this. I am in debt to
you for your help. I will try to determine which it is and if I find out
more, I will let you know. Thanks again, Bob.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: IKK Brainstorming--Bob then
Carol
IKK
Brainstorming--Bob then Carol
Reply
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|
| From: Masugu |
Hi Bob;
On the assumption
that Painshill was an unofficial placename (common in MD as
people named mills, farms, hills, manors, etc. with no official
registry--one of my wife's ancestor's was born on an
Eastern-shore farm named Wallacey, one which no longer exists),
I looked for people named Pain or Paine in 1830, 1840 and 1850
Frederick, MD. I found records in all three (see below). I also
looked for Payne and Pane with no results. It appears that the
John Paine of the 1830 census, was probably succeeded by his
widow by 1840. By 1850, both were gone and their probable
children scattered and in low-paying jobs--suggesting that the
property had been lost to the family.
I then used Google
to see whether I could find a relationship between the Rhodes
and Paine/Paine families in MD and PA (if Martha was b. at
Painshill, and it was named after a local family, then its a
good bet that the Rhodes were related to them). I found lots of
sites which included both Rhodes's and Pain's (some quite
prominent) in their trees. It looks as though they moved around
among VA, MD and PA.
In addition, I found this
tantalizing posting in re the Paine family in MD, posted by:
Henry Pitts Dated: September 27, 2002
I am looking for any
information on my gg grandfather, Alan Paine of Maryland. Alan
would have been born around 1815 to 1825. We have been told that
he was an orphan from Pennsylvania. He had a son, Gen. Clinton
Paxton Paine who was born 10/18/1847 and died 3/14/1902. Alan
Paine owned land in Baltimore, Carroll and Frederick counties,
but we can't find any information as to his ancestors. Any help
is greatly appreciated.
Finally, I found a Paine's Hill
near Troy, Bradford Co., PA (up north) some of whose settlers
came from Maryland. The URL is
http://www.rootsweb.com/~pabradfo/craft/troydc.htm. Bradford Co.
also figured fairly prominently in my search for
Pain's.
These people may have been the family for whom
Painshill was named. Conversely, Painshill may have been named
after the famous English Park of the same name in Cobham,
Surrey. I'm afraid this is all I can do on Painshill, although I
will look through the Frederick records at the local library
next time I'm there. Cheers, Wayne
1830 Census
Name:
Paine, John
State: MD
County: Frederick
ED: 3
Page:
58
Image: 117
Roll: 57
1840 Census
Name: Pain,
Catherine
State: MD
County: Frederick
ED: 3
Page:
181
Image: 52
Roll: 166
1850 Census
Name: Paine,
William
State: MD
County: Frederick
ED:
Middleton
Page: 322
Image: 239
Roll: 293
Name:
Paine, Hillery
State: MD
County: Frederick
ED:
Middleton
Page: 333
Image: 261
Roll:
293
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Reply
| | | From: Masugu | Sent: 7/30/2003 12:55 AM |
Hi Bob;
You're quite welcome, that's what this Brainstroming effort is all about.
As I said, next time I'm at the library I'll check out their resources--the Wesminster library in Carroll Co has a lot of stuff on Frederick Co. (Carroll used to be part of Frederick).
Cheers, Wayne |
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Reply
| | | From: Melody | Sent: 7/30/2003 1:10 PM |
Bob, I put D.C. #s for 2 Cecil Smiths on a different string. Did you find them? One died in Stonington, Illinois, within 12 miles of Boody {Cecil George Smith}. The other in Sangamon County, where I believe Cecil's mother once lived. {Cecil Stanley Smith} Mel |
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Reply
| | | From: Melody | Sent: 7/30/2003 1:24 PM |
Bob, There was a 22 year old Cecil Smith living in Madison County, Illinois in 1930. He has a wife, Harriet, who he had married the year before, or at least when he was 21. Cecil was working as a pipe fitter's helper at an oil refinery. Both parents were born in Illinois. They lived on Elm Street in the Village of Roxana. Mel |
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Reply
| | | From: mrlucky | Sent: 7/30/2003 2:43 PM |
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Melody: I did not receive the message with
the DC#'s in it. Cecil's middle initial was G. so, I think Cecil George Smith
would be the one. Bob O.----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 7:10
AM
Subject: Re: IKK Brainstorming--Bob then
Carol
IKK
Brainstorming--Bob then Carol
Reply
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| From: Melody |
Bob,
I put D.C. #s for 2 Cecil Smiths on a different
string. Did you find them? One died in Stonington,
Illinois, within 12 miles of Boody {Cecil George Smith}.
The other in Sangamon County, where I believe Cecil's mother
once lived. {Cecil Stanley Smith}
Mel | |
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category.
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Reply
| | | From: Melody | Sent: 7/30/2003 2:58 PM |
Sorry, Bob, Cecil G. Smith died in 1932, before your Cecil George signed his own father's death record. BUT, this person could possibly be a child of your Cecil George Smith. Also posting SS death record. SMITH CECIL GEORGE M/W UNK 0110030 1932-01-03 CHRISTIAN STONINGTON 32-01-05
Name: CECIL SMITH SSN: 324-14-8078 Last Residence: 62858 Louisville, Clay, IL Born: 9 Sep 1907 Last Benefit: Died: Aug 1972 State (Year) SSN issued: IL (Before 195) |
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Reply
| | | From: Masugu | Sent: 8/8/2003 12:23 AM |
Hi Bob;
Well you owe me a beer 'cause I said I'd do it and I did it! I found the approximate whereabouts of Payne's Hill. But before we get to that let me say that the Payne's/Paines/Pains and the Rhodes are OLD Frederick Co. families. Based on my research, it appears likely that the Rhodes descended from a German immigrant named Roht--the non-German speaking locals rendered it as Rhodes. One parcel of land was named Paul's Choice by its owner, Paul Rhodes.
I found several books dealing with the Monocacy River and Catoctin Mountain area of Maryland The first one: "Pioneers of Old Monocacy, The Early Settlement of Frederick Co. Maryland, 1721-1743", refers to a survey of 100 acres known as "Pains Delight" on the banks of the Potomac. The second: "Monacacy and Catoctin, Some Early Settlers of Frederick & Carroll Counties, Maryland, and Adams County, Pennsylvania, and Descendants, 1725-1985", describes a nunber of old Indian trails and trading roads.
One of these was known as "Cartlidge's Old Trail" which ran "from Bigg's Ford (near Walkersville) via (what was) later (known as) Thurmont, (then) Payne's Hill, and Little Owen's Creek to the Antietam (which is actually in present day Washington Co. but was at that time in Frederick Co.)". I've attached an old map which has "Cartledge's Old Road" labeled. If you eyeball from that spot to an area about half of the way to "Loy's Station" (I've drawn an X on the spot), you can see the approximate location of Payne's Hill--in or near the Catoctin Mountains. Chambersburg, PA is NW of that area.
I've also included a small district map of Frederick Co. for reference purposes.
Cheers, and enjoy, Wayne |
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Reply
| | | From: Melody | Sent: 8/11/2003 2:39 AM |
Also, doesn't it look like Nels is shown as a (deceased) retired farmer on his D.C.? |
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