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British History : Elizabeth I
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(1 recommendation so far) Message 1 of 107 in Discussion 
From: race2three  (Original Message)Sent: 2/19/2007 10:48 AM
A question....I would like very much to hear what any of you British, or (persons who have studied the history of Britain) your opionions on a question from a Yank, who, when all is said and done, has no "true" concept of the feelings of a monarch brings out in their people...good, or bad.....Elizabeth I...in my opinion, haviing read and studied history all of my life (ancient history is the subject that interests me the most greece/rome especially, but I have read and studied as much of the world's history as I have been able to...and continue to do so) ranks as a shining example of what a monarch could, and should be for her people...she loved her people, and they returned her love..."good Queen Bess"...She was competent, intelligent, decisive, firm, yet compassionate, always put the needs of her people foremost, avoided war as much as was possible, fighting only when war was forced upon her, was frugal with the treasury, yet spent where spending would do the most good for all....reigned for  over three decades...taking the throne after the mecurical reign of her father henry VIII, the short reign of her brother edward, and the five years of "Bloody Mary" who spent more time having people burnt at the stake for heresy, than she did on government...England was a nation of three or four million people, second rate power in europe, rather backwards compared to spain, france, and germany in many ways at the time...when she died, and james took the throne England was well on her way....becoming a power to be reckoned with in europe, with ships all over the oceans, travelling on voyages of discovery, and commerce, England was laying the foundations the soon to be world dominating British Empire.   My question....why isn't this outsanding person remembered as Elizabeth  the Great?  I know that the only King surnamed the Great in English history, is Alfred...and having held on to that last third of England for the English, and holding the Danes back from totally conquering the island, and allowing the anglo-saxons to regroup, retake, and evolve into the English people is fundemental...certainly there would have been no Elizabeth had he failed....yet, there also would have been no Elizabeth had Harold, not been beaten at hastings by William....so I think that comparing the "greatness" of Alfred, who after all ruled over a very very small kingdom, and spent more time fighting for it's existence, than he had any chance of governing a nation as Elizabeth did.   Louis XVI the "Sun King" did not have the strength of character, to put the love of his people before his love of himself....Peter I the Great of Russia certainly had the good of his nation and people foremost in his mind, and was tireless in his determination to see that the future of Russia would be greater than her past, but he was also harsh and brutal in his actions.  hundreds of thousands of his people died carrying out his programs, not to mention the thousands he had executed, (the streltzy e.g.)....there isn't a "great" monarch within 500 years of Elizabeth, who had the vision, the ambition, and the love, to have given so much of herself for the good of her people.Where Peter led with the knout and the stick, and Louis partied at Versaillewhile his people starved, exhausting his enormous treasury in pointless wars, that gained nothing...Elizabeth worked with a parliment with all the give and take that comes with not having her hands on the purse strings...and tapped into the industry, toughness, and courage of her  people, noble and common alike...and under her watchful eye made it possible for her nation to grow from a backwater island of farmers, and tradesmen, to on ocean ruling power who could boast that the sun never set on their empire.....
 
 
Who does one have to speak with to have Elizabeth cognomenated "the Great"....and why hasn't anyone submitted the paperwork?...lol...


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 Message 93 of 107 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMOREREPETESSent: 4/22/2007 7:25 AM
IF AN INOCENT MAN HAS BEEN PUT TO DEATH AND IT IS PROVEN LATER, THEN TAKE THE JURY THE JUDGE AND THE PROSECUTOR AND PUT THEM ON DEATH ROW FOR FIRST DEGREE MURDER BECAUSE THATS WHAT IT REALLY WAS.
SINCE DNA TESTING HAS BEEN DISCOVERED MANY PEOPLE WERE EXECUTED HAVE NOW BEEN PROVEN INOCENT.
I KNOW OF AT LEAST 5 CASES IN CANADA WERE A PERSON HAS DONE 12-25 YEARS BEHIND BARS FOR MURDER AND HAS NOW BEEN PROVEN INOCENT BY DNA. IT'S BAD ENOUGH THAT THEY WERE LOCKED UP FOR IT. I GLAD THAT WE HAD REMOVED THE DEATH PENALTY. AND NO I DON'T BELIEVE IN CAPITAL PUNISHMENT. NO CIVILIZED PERSON DOES. IF YOU DO THEN YOU ARE ONLY LOWERING YOUSELF TO THEIR STANDARDS.

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 Message 94 of 107 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nickname--sundaySent: 4/22/2007 4:13 PM
The Bear would agree with you there, PBA.  We've had some pretty heated arguments over this issue because I have always been a proponent (o-uncivilized me) of the death penalty when proof is positive and a heinous crime (especially against a child) has been committed.  I see it as a hound in the henhouse that must be put down because he will continue killing chickens no matter where he is.
 
sunday

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 Message 95 of 107 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMOREREPETESSent: 4/22/2007 8:01 PM
MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN PUT TO DEATH REALLY WEREN'T OF SOUND MIND WHICH REALLY MAKES US LOOK BAD AS A SOCIETY. HITLER INCLUDED THEM IN HIS GRAND PLAN AND ELIMINATING ANYONE WHO DIDN'T FIT HIS PERFECT MOLD.
A NATION CAN BE JUDGED BY HOW IT TREATS IT'S OLD AND IT'S SICK.

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 Message 96 of 107 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman8Sent: 4/22/2007 8:41 PM
When studying jurisprudence in the heady days of the late '60's when queering and murder were made legal (sorry, the death penalty was removed) the question you studied was "Why do people obey the law?"
2 answers. Wittgenstein's "volksgeist", public morality, and fear of the penalty.

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 Message 97 of 107 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameRosororari8Sent: 8/12/2007 3:16 AM
It's more complex than she was a great ruler. She was of course, but it's complicated. It could be that Alfred the Great added 'the Great' to Alfred and beame Alfred the Great. If that's true, then no other monarch of England has added the Great to their name to this day.

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 Message 98 of 107 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 8/12/2007 11:34 AM
He wasn't known as "The Great" until more than 200 years after his death.

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 Message 99 of 107 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLewWetzel1Sent: 8/12/2007 9:02 PM
    I agree with the death penalty but not the way it used here.  If you are condemned to die for your crime (whatever it is) you may spend up to 20 years awaiting the carrying out of the penalty.  People you don't know and wouldn't like if you did, organizations you never heard of or belonged to, all can sue to delay or void the execution.  So, by the time you are taken for the long walk, few know who you are or why you're being executed and the death penalty is seen as archaic/barbaric.
     Also,these same morally superior types are now trying to hold former prisoners without trial.  An example of this criminal action is the case of Kevin Coe the South Hill Rapist, who was sentenced to 26 years behind The Walls.  He served every day of his sentence but was denied release because he was deemed a Class III sex offender and liabel to reoffend.  Now there is a court battle brewing over whether or not he should be released.  He, and his ilk, are poster children for the Death Penalty but he has done his time and should be let go.     

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 Message 100 of 107 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknamepacodoesntlovemeSent: 9/25/2007 12:12 PM
She is someone I truly admire (I don't think I even need to write why). 
 
:)

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 Message 101 of 107 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMarkGB5Sent: 9/25/2007 7:14 PM
Female leaders in a man's world always make interesting study; Catherine II of Russia, Maria Theresa of Austria, Queen Christina of Sweden, Catherine de Medici etc. 

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 Message 102 of 107 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFlashman8Sent: 9/25/2007 8:18 PM
Queen Rovanolara of Madagascar, the Dowager Empress of China. Had 'em all dear boy.
  
  More fun than Bob Crane, don't yer know?

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 Message 103 of 107 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLewWetzel1Sent: 9/26/2007 4:21 PM
speaking of people being unjustly held, I heard a brief bit of news referencing some man who had been imprisoned for 37 years in a federal prison and the FBI not only knew he was innocent when they locked him up but lied about it to "protect other ongoing investigations" or some such crap.  He has been paid 37 million dollars but not a single word as to what has been done to the agents & agency that lied him into jail.

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 Message 104 of 107 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameBLACKTAZ06Sent: 9/26/2007 7:38 PM
THERE WAS A LOT THAT GOT SWEPT UNDER THE CARPET LEW IN THE PAST AND UNFORTUNITLY IT IS STILL BEING CARRIED OUT TODAY. HOW MANY OF THE PEOPLE BEING HELD IN CUBA HAVE EVER HAD ANY TYPE OF TRIAL. THIS GOES AGAIN EVERYTHING THAT AMERICA SAYS IT STAND FOR. IT MAKES IT APPEAR TO THE WORLD THAT AMERICA IS TWO FACED AND NOT TO BE TRUSTED BECAUSE THEY MAKE UP THE LAW OR CHANGE IT TO SUIT THE GOVERNMENT AS THEY GO ALONG.
WHAT MAKES IT WORSE IS WHEN THE SAY THE GOVERNMENT WAS ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE.

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 Message 105 of 107 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLewWetzel1Sent: 9/27/2007 1:58 AM
What is nauseating is the secrecy that the police forces work in.  The reason that the Feds (and local/state) get away with it is that no one knows, until after the fact, that this stuff is going on.  The people who do rail against it are derided as 'conspirency nuts, commies, socialists, etc.

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 Message 106 of 107 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameMOREREPETESSent: 9/27/2007 3:37 AM
The people who do rail against it are derided as 'conspirency nuts, commies, socialists, etc.
 
You forgot them darn Liberals Lew.

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 Message 107 of 107 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameLewWetzel1Sent: 9/27/2007 3:14 PM
Ah yes, the scum of the earth   haaak ptooie.

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