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General : Happy Spring and cat question
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 Message 1 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamemad-eye-annie  (Original Message)Sent: 3/20/2008 4:03 PM
Happy Spring to all.   There is more snow predicted here, but the back of this long long winter is broken. Almost every day, puddles are forming where there was ice.  And the birds are positively shrieking from the big pine trees in the front yard.
 
Advice search:  Sissy, our oldest and last cat  (of four) finally told us in her most emphatic way that she needed to leave for cat heaven.  She deserves it.  She gave us 20 years of being a pillow buddy and a good friend.  Not only do I miss her a lot, but I just plain miss having a cat around the house.  The dog is a character and provides comic relief, but cats are a learned habit.  My husband, who initially did not like them, now feels the same way.
 
Our past herd did not always use the best habits, though they usually did try to be good citizens. So there was some marking and tinkling here and there.  Gallons of Nature's  Miracle and plenty of cleaning and some interesting diversion tactics really helped.  We loved them all despite their errors in judgment. But I know that while people now can't detect the presence of former cats, a cat cannot be fooled and probably would.   
 
Has anybody else moved new cats into a situation like ours with good litter box success?  I think one of our problems was that we had two rescue sisters for a year and a half, and then, as fate would have it, suddenly ended up with a re-housed brother-sister combination as well.   They were all very close in age and all neutered. The two tag teams never really got along except for the great personality, Ralph,  an orange and white doofus who loved everybody.  That's when territorial things got going--I think.  ?????  It was probably the original two who were the offenders.  Sissy was fastitiously tidy, and Ralph tried, but the first two, Iris and Lila, may have deeply resented the additions.  Dogs seem prone to instant forgiveness, but cats hold grudges, in my experience.  Does that make sense?
 
Help would be appreciated.  I didn't have time to do the integrating that I probably should have done back then.  Now I do.  We don't need to hurry because Sissy deserves a period of mourning.  But at some point, it would be so nice to have a cat or cats around the house again.
 
Annie


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Reply
 Message 2 of 10 in Discussion 
From: judsSent: 3/20/2008 11:16 PM
I just re-read my post and is sounds like a commercial and we don't do that kind of promotion here, so I'm going to delete all that stuff and tell you to e-mail me if you want all the details about this company and its products.
 
They are dwdavies.com, they are chemical manufacturers, and the product that will help you is EnZo Kleen 100 (developed to eliminate the odors from...warning here, the next part is gross and will be in tiny letter so that you can skip over it...decomposing bodies), although they have in the past few years developed another Enzo product that is supposed to be specifically for pet odors.
 
They are the company that makes Cuff & Collar, the laundry pre-wash.  I pour a little bit of the EK100 in the washing machine when I do the cats' bedding.
 
In all the years, more than fifteen, that I've used it I've never had a problem with it affecting any fabric, wood floors and baseboards, tile, etc., but I haven't used it on every single fabric that exists, either.
 
Anyway, the EnzoKleen 100 is magical in completely eliminating odors.  I have used it to clean everything from the mister's socks...eeeeewwww...to a house where a woman had thirty cats who went potty anywhere they could because the woman didn't have litter boxes.  The house was so bad that we had to wear respirators just to round up the poor cats.  Between the masks and the nets, it was pretty scary for them, but there wasn't any way that we could go into the house without wearing the equipment. 
 
I really have a ton of information about their products.
 
I don't believe that your cats, or any cats for that matter hold grudges.  Cat cognitive function just doesn't work that way, but we humans continue to anthromoporphize animal behavior in an attempt to help us to understand why the heck they are doing whatever they are doing.  And, you are correct when you say that there are ways to facilitate the introduction of animals into a household.  I have decades of experience with this and will be glad to help you in whatever way that I can.  In the shelter I was the go-to person for cat behavior problems.  Often for dogs as well, but mostly for kitties.  I still consult with individuals and shelter on behavior issues.
 
Now that the weather is getting better, we could actually meet half-way and I could fill your head with all manner of useless information about cleaning and cats. 
 
Have a nice holiday weekend and know that I am holding Sissy in my thoughts and in my heart.  Lili, Ricky and Charley send their best, too.

Reply
 Message 3 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamemad-eye-annieSent: 3/21/2008 6:24 AM
I had a feeling that if anybody would know how to erase traces of former residents, you would.  So, yes, as soon as Easter its attendant celebration at my place is done, I shall e-mail you.  This stuff sounds like it's way better than the pet store variety of odor-be-gone.  Having had animals as long as we have, both dog and cat varieties and plenty of little other critters the kids adopted too, I know that they smell things that we have not the remotest chance of picking up.  
 
Yes, a chat would be lovely.
 
My mom, at 87, is thinking seriously about selling her home and moving someplace ??? else.  She adopted two cats last year, and they have been just so good for her in so many ways.  However, she has very recently decreed that Frannie and Maisy are going to come and live with me if  she moves someplace where cats are not allowed.  I'm heading to see her next weekend so we can talk about this decision seriously, as her resources are limited but she does own her home.
 
 She is emphatic that I am the only one who will care for them if she can't.  They have already been re-housed once or twice and one is pretty spooky.  Plus, they don't like dogs.  Me--I was thinking of getting kittens in summer or early fall because I'd like to raise them myself for once.  Now, I may have more to deal with than I had planned.  This could get pretty (pardon me) hairy.  I'm devoutely hoping that she can find someplace that will allow her to keep the kitties because she really needs them, and Maisy has already proven to be untrustworthy in the marking department.
 
If it ain't one thing, it's another.
 
Thanks for your thoughts about Sis.  It took a box of Kleenex just to pick up all the cat equipment.  Happy Easter to Lili, Ricky and Charley.  May they dream of running races with bunnies and winning.  I will be in touch.
 
 

Reply
 Message 4 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCindyloowho4Sent: 3/21/2008 4:02 PM

Juds,

 

This is totally SOM unrelated, but since you said you had dog behavioral experience maybe you can offer me some advise.  We got a sweet little puppy from the pound at Thanksgiving.  Belle is a great dog and very smart; potty trained immediately, gets my paper in the morning, sits, gives her paw etc…   She is primarily an inside dog but on pretty days I’ll leave her in the backyard while I’m at work.

 

The Problem I’m having with her is that she loves to dig holes in the backyard.  I’m renting the house so this is a real problem for us.  I’m sure my landlady does not want all these holes in her backyard.  I fill them back up but she’ll dig them back out before you can turn around.  My husband has spanked her every time, to no avail.  When I come home and see her paws all dirty I’ll say to her, “you’ve been digging again!”  She’ll run and get in her bed because she knows she’s done wrong.  Yet she continues to dig. 

 

My mother-in-law suggested I put cayenne pepper in the holes and that would keep her from going back to them.  All this did was result in her having RED paws.  I’m open to any suggestions you have.  And from anyone else out there that has any ideas.

 

Thanks and hope you all have a Blessed Easter.

 

Cindy


Reply
 Message 5 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCindyloowho4Sent: 3/21/2008 4:03 PM

First of all Annie, let me tell you how sorry I am about Sissy.  I understand the loss of a pet.  They become like your children.  Especially when, like me, you don’t have any children.  I am about to go through the same thing with my cat, Bailey (named for Bailey’s Irish Cream because she has some of that wonderful beigey-orangey color that Bailey’s Irish Cream has.) And in case you’re wondering, beigey-orangey is a “Cindy” word. J

 

As far as trying to neutralize the pet odor, try sprinkling some dry baking soda on the spot and brushing it in real good.  Then let it sit several hours or overnight before you vacuum it up.  The other option is to steam clean the carpet.  Good luck with it.

 

Keep me posted on your new “baby” when you get one.  Go for a female.  They don’t seem to want to mark their territories like boys do.

 

Cindy

 

 

 

 

 


Reply
 Message 6 of 10 in Discussion 
From: judsSent: 3/21/2008 7:27 PM
First of all, and I hope to be very clear about this, this support group is for more than postings about your SOM.  Whilst its creation and focus and the reason that we are all here, is on superior oblique myokymia, we have to remind ourselves that even though it is online, it is a support group in the truest sense.  That means that just about anything goes when it comes to  sharing and writing about something.  Some people think that it would be nice to keep a particular thread on topic, but that simply isn't ever going to happen, and I don't want it to happen.  Gosh, we're here because we have an issue that affects every aspect or our lives.That means that we have to be able to discuss any darn thing that pops into our heads.  So there! 
 
As far as your dog is concerned, are you sitting down?  And, before you read on, remember that I am a nice person and would not lead you astray (ha! dog joke!!!).  But mostly remember that I am a nice person.  And, cute, too.
 
Belle is digging holes because she is bored out of her little doggy mind.  She digs for several reasons.  Because she hasn't anything else to do.  Because digging is a natural behavior for dogs.  Because there isn't anyone with whom she can play or engage in other activities.  That's the boredom part.  And, simply because she has the opportunity to engage in this natural behavior.
 
Dogs are really pretty far removed from the wolf.  They have been domesticated for such a long time that they are comfortable being part of our pack.  Given the opportunity, abandoned dogs will band together into a pack for survival of course, but more importantly for social contact.  An excellent example is when family dogs gather into loose packs following catastrophic (no, not a cat joke...maybe) natural disasters.  It happened after our most recent hurricaine experiences. 
 
That need for social connection is one of the reasons that they make such wonderful companions. 
 
Discipline needs to be given in the form of training.  Scolding or similar responses do not really work that well, even if they are given immediately after the offense.  They create fear, misunderstanding and distrust.  Honest.  The reason that Belle runs and goes to her bed when you scold her is because she knows that you are upset about something.  Her cognitive ability does not allow for guilt about anything.  That you're upset because she dug holes isn't even on her radar.  All that she knows is that you are not feeling kindly towards her.  Confusing for her, and not all that helpful to your relationship.  And, it will never stop the behaviors that are unacceptable to you.
 
One of the reasons that she continues to dig in the same places is because the hard work has already been done.  When you replace the dirt, even if you try to pack it down, it is still looser and more easily dug than when she dug it the first time.  How nice of you to do that for her!!!!   You're such a good mommy!  To be honest, even if you were able to find a way to prevent her from digging, she will only manifest her boredom with other, likely more intolerable and unacceptable behaviors.
 
And, that is the core of the problem.  Because we treat our pets like family members we anthropomorphize the heck out of them and our relationship with them.  That's great for us, and often fine for them, but it doesn't help them to learn to behave in a manner that works for our situation.  I love, absolutely love indulging my cats (and dogs when I had them and I'm looking for another one right now) with treats and special bedding, tons of toys (most of which I make) and, best of all, lots of loving attention.  But, and this is huge but (no, not a fanny joke), I never forget that they are cats or dogs.  Ever.
 
The path to good stewardship and relationship with a companion animal is to know, understand, respect and be willing to modify your own, human (and don't forget that we are essentially primates, as well),  natural behavior when we choose to live with animals as a part of our lives.  One simple example is that, as human primates, we use our hands (paws) for socialization.  Cats and dogs do not do that, but they are more than willing to accomodate us when we pat them on their fuzzy little heads, which is often taken by them as an threatening or agressive move.  Or when we pick them up.  I always think that it is fortunate for us that we cannot see the looks on their faces when we have our our own faces buried in their wonderful fur whilst giving them big bear hugs.
 
One of the things that I adore about dogs is that they are able to live with us, behave according to our confusing requests of them, and be the wonderful, mostly carefree companions that they are.  As they come to trust us, they will also come to tolerate all of our human behaviors towards them, and often come to enjoy them as much as we do.  It is truly miraculous that dogs do as well as they do, given the well-intentioned but mistaken beliefs we have when it comes to their training and their needs.  There was a book a couple of years ago called Marley and Me, which is a testament that a dog can survive and function fairly well despite having an owner who does nearly everything wrong.  The author clearly loved his dog, but it took him a long time before he began to address his training of Marley in terms that were appropriate for dog thinking and response.
 
I know that you believe that leaving your dog out in the yard during the time that you are away is a good thing for her, but it isn't for a few reasons.  The first is the digging problem that you have. As I said, eliminate that and she is almost surely going to begin doing something else annoying.  You're lucky that she doesn't bark, which would strain your relationships with your neighbors.  Having worked with animals for thirty years, twenty of which were spent in rescue and shelter work, there are dozens of animals that ended up in our shelters because they accidentally (through their own efforts or because of some human action) got out of their enclosed yards.  The lucky ones end up with us, with an excellent chance that they will be reunited with their families.  Some are prey to encounters with motor vehicles, other animals or cruel humans.  The unlucky ones never show up anywhere and the family is left to wonder what ever happened to their beloved pet.
 
Worse is that there are still some labs that will accept animals for their research programs, no questions asked.  Family pets make excellent subjects because they are often socialized and trained a bit, making them easier to handle.  And, there are people perfectly willing to take that doggy in the backyard and sell it to a lab.  That hasn't happened in my state for a long time, but ten years ago it happened often enough that it was a concern.  However, I know from other animal workers that I meet at workshops and conferences that it is still happening in other parts of the country.  Plus, there are also people who will take a pet, hoping to return it for a reward, but that kind of activity doesn't happen very often, and usually runs for a time and then stops.
 
Are you still with me?  Am I still a nice person?  I hope so.  This is already long, and I have to get out to the store before all of our new snow piles up so high that I can't get out to the road.  If you still want some advice, I will share what I know later this afternoon.  However, if you have had quite enough of me, I understand!!!!   I wrote this in a hurry, so please try to ignore all the misspellings and grammar errors.  Syntax?  We dunneed no stinkin syntax!

Reply
 Message 7 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamemad-eye-annieSent: 3/21/2008 7:47 PM
Thanks, Cindy.  Going for suspected areas is a good idea since I pretty well know which places were claimed by Iris, and  Lila, for sure.  One large area of sins has actually been un- carpeted and re-done with hardwood. 
 
I am so sorry to hear about Bailey.  I agree--animals simply are family.  We were able to watch Sissy closely,  and to understand when she clearly told us that there was not going to be a recovery this time.  Very very hard, but as everyone tells us, it is the final act of love and kindness we can do for them.  I noticed that my seven-year-old granddaughter, in the amazing way of children,  gets it completely.  She spent the last couple of days here and when her dad picked her up today, I found that she had gently placed my daughter's old stuffed kitty on our bed exactly where Sissy used to sleep.
 
What kind of breed/breeds is your little digger-genius of a pup?  This may have a lot to do with the digging.  She may be "born to dig". 
 
Having taken enough classes to make our dogs post-graduate students, I do know that our super trainer, Tina, would say that spanking or scolding after the fact will have no impact on a dog.  They don't associate the discipline with what they are doing unless you catch them at it and then they probably need another technique to stop the behavior.  But Juds and others would do better with WHAT the replacement should be and how to go about it. 
 
  My experience is mainly directed toward handling the stubborn-ness and over-enthusiasm of  loveable English Bulldogs.   Rosie did stop eating chair rungs in the kitchen with a combination of vaseline and cayenne pepper smeared on them, but she learned to delicately lick any supposedly bad-tasting stuff off of throw pillows so she could continue to attack them and defend us from them.  They are now stacked in the closet and come out for company.  Most of her behavior is so good now, that I'm not going to fight over the pillows.  They have all been sewn back together, anyway, so why tempt fate? Good thing my grandma taught me her fantastic mending skills!

Reply
 Message 8 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamemad-eye-annieSent: 3/21/2008 8:12 PM
Just read Juds' post and thought of something else.  Right--Rosie would not last outside--too sensitive to heat and cold and I fear someone would steal her.  She loves everyone.
 
Though we can't leave her in the yard, the more Rosie is walked, the better her behavior is.  It releases energy and I think it breaks up her day and gives her something to think about.  We put a baby gate across the new couch and so that's off limits.  It isn't a great decorator accent but then, we love the dog, so.....(She interpreted the loose-back as giant throw pillows.)  Likewise gated the stairs to the second floor because there are delicious shoes up there.  The rest of the house is hers.  We switch toys around a lot to keep her interested if we are going to be gone .  We also got rubber and other  heavy-duty stuffer toys and filled them with tasty things (cheese-whiz, liver sausage and other treats--not a lot so she doesn't get fat) and  stick those in the freezer. Doggie popsicle. We had used hollow sterilized bones, but she throws those around and makes an unholy racket--so we found Kong chewers with treat stuffer holes that she can't demolish. When we leave, she gets one to work on--keeps her busy till she goes and takes a long bulldog nap. 

Reply
 Message 9 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameCindyloowho4Sent: 3/22/2008 1:35 AM

Annie,

 

To answer your question about what kind of dog Belle is, I will tell you what my husband says, “She is the culmination of years of unprotected doggie sex.”  (I hope I can say that on-line) J  Her mom was brought in as a rescue dog unbeknownst to them that she was pregnant.  We just happen upon them about six weeks after the puppies were born.  She’s about 30lbs now.  My vet says she may go 40-45lbs.  I think she may have some type of Terrier in her which would explain why she’s so smart.

 

I agree with you and Juds that she’s probably bored, but Mama’s got to work so Belle can eat.  Generally I only work half a day so I’m home with her in the afternoons.  The weather here in Alabama is nice so I keep the kitchen door open so she can come and go as she pleases, when I’m home.  But she’ll dig even with me there.  She has plenty of inside and outside toys.  I generally play with her (throwing her ball and such) for a good while when I get home.  I realize she’s still a puppy (only 6 months old) so I hope and pray that she’ll out grow this.  My husband says she will.  I’ve had plenty of dogs in my life, just never one that dug.

 

As far as fencing goes, we have an eight foot wooden privacy fence around our backyard and it latches from the inside so no one can come get her and there’s no way for her to get out. 

 

As you can tell it’s really slow at work today, it being Good Friday and all.  I normally don’t have this much time to chat.  I’ve rather enjoyed it.  As long as we keep All My Children running, no one will call to bother us.

 

Have a good one.

 

Cindy

 


Reply
 Message 10 of 10 in Discussion 
From: MSN Nicknamemad-eye-annieSent: 3/22/2008 5:10 PM
I think Belle should be diagnosed officially as a very lucky dog to have found such a loving family, and as a cheerful digger.  If she's part terrier, then she is upholding a fine tradition--like Beagles howling, sheepdogs herding everything in sight, and bulldogs entertaining the household with silly expressions and antics.  (After all, there are  no bull contests anymore--so why not just put on the silly suit?)
 
Just for fun I asked our doggie teacher (the one who has helped us to make our smart, stubborn Rosie into a great family companion) about digging.  She has owned diggers.  She did say that sometimes--mind you sometimes-- you can designate a part of the yard as a digging area by actually burying bones and toys into a specific space, rewarding when the dog goes and digs them up, and distracting or admonishing when they dig eleswhere.  Often, a smart dog will figure this out and then just keep to that area.  Some are "born to dig" and will sneak out and dig away whenever your back is turned.  But if Belle is a puppy, there's a good chance of that working.  Anyway its a thought from a good trainer.  Then when you leave for good, you can act like it was supposed to be a garden plot.
 
But, Geez.  If she can bring your paper without eating it in the process and do goods and services like that, she sounds like a treasure.  Rosie has had a deep-seated need to shred paper since she was a pup--even before she came to live with us.  While you're filling holes, I'm sweeping up scraps and rewarding for leaving the paperbacks alone, and it's all worth it  
 
 

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