Chaos, Wanduring.... How do I put this.. okay, just when we 'think' we understand the order of things and the factors that contributed to being, another factor is added to or removed thus changing the equation. So it is random, but in randomness there is order until factors are shifted which disrupt the present order. Does that make any sense at all?

 

here's a quote:

This phenomenon, common to chaos theory (butterfly effect), is also known as sensitive dependence on initial conditions. Just a small change in the initial conditions can drastically change the long-term behavior of a system. Such a small amount of difference in a measurement might be considered experimental noise, background noise, or an inaccuracy of the equipment. Such things are impossible to avoid in even the most isolated lab. With a starting number of 2, the final result can be entirely different from the same system with a starting value of 2.000001. It is simply impossile to achieve this level of accuracy - just try and measure something to the nearest millionth of an inch!

 

and another quote here helps me out a bit.

 

The Koch curve brings up an interesting paradox. Each time new triangles are added to the figure, the length of the line gets longer. However, the inner area of the Koch curve remains less than the area of a circle drawn around the original triangle. Essentially, it is a line of infinite length surrounding a finite area.

 

Fractal dimensions was how the mathematicians got around the problem, but the Koch curve they say falls somewhere around 1.26. Fractual they go on to say, has come to mean any image that displays the atrribute of 'self-similarity' this links back to what I was saying in the previous post about replication.

 

Fractal structures are all about finding similarities or commonalities, yes, there you are correct, but simply because something follows a pattern on its own, like the dripping water experiment, that doesn't take into account outside influences. Changes in the line water pressure for example, would have changed the rate of the drip.

 

So I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one because I can see your point, but I still find that whatever we do, and yes sometimes whatever we think, affects the outcome of certain events, but by the same token I have to admit that our choices are what dicate our futures. To me the butterfly effect perfectly illustrates why we can't change things but only flow with them.

 

Good chat, Thanks!

Tay

Red,

    Thank you, it's good to see you in print again also and yes, I had noticed and I've very much enjoyed my brief visits here however brief and strangely though I'm of late as busy as a one-legged man in an a** kickin' contest, I've been drawn back to the messages here again and again, reading through post after post with glee (G)!

 

In my late night admissions I give you this, I too hope there is a 'reason' that there is 'more' than this material reality and I have reason to believe there is, but I wrestle with my logical mind often and have no idea how I'd catagorize myself if put to the test religiously because I'm an avid despiser of religion, even though the study of it fascinates me to no end and science has become the newest of our religions. Even that puts a bad taste in my mouth. After all, science is only a grouping of theories that attempt to define life, every 10 to 20 years a theory is sucessfully challenged and science finds itself forever changed by the new findings and a new 'sci-religion' is born and having said this we arrive back at the vicious circle of a question, what is truth??? Is it really different for us all? Personally this takes me back to yet another theory, that of relativity, the truth as we percieve it is relative to the conditions and manner in which we live. So having said all of this, being a victim of severe adjectivitis admittedly! We have to live by one rule foresaking all others....

 

To thine ownself be true!

 

Ain't life grand! (G)

 

Tay

"

Soooooo, my very simple theory, is not so simple eh? I suppose what I need to do is go through this thread and write down all the questions. They would be the chapter titles in the book. Just a couple of comments at this time, on Chaos theory. My understanding of Chaos refers to the spontaneous appearance of noise in every object at the mathematical, and atomic level. At the atomic level it is nearly impossible to predict anything, due to the nature of noise, though it is somewhat possible to predict when the noise will appear, and when stepping back far enough, it is difficult to even see the abnomilty. This is the reason we cannot really ever predict the weather, a molecule wobbles somewhere and poof, the whole equation changes. Now, just for giggles, mix in the quantum theories, and, all of sudden, that molecule that wiggled, may have wiggled because, someone, somewhere, wished for rain. Consciousness collapsing probability into actuality!

 

Tay, The Koch Curve is pretty cool, I was thinking of doing a glass piece like it at one point! As far as the scientific always moving 2 steps forward and 1 step back...still one must look at the forward motion and not get discouraged by the steps back. As the tools get better, we do get closer to seperating out the mythology. I still like the relative simpleness of a parasitic explanation. And I'm not ready to accept that gene theory. I still think it all has to do with being colonies of Atlantis!

 

Red, I am now in the chapters attempting to explain how the physical self can take on characteristics of past lives. It is much more convoluted than one would think, but it has to do with the context of the experience, not so much the experience. For example, your drowning fear, could be somehow related to purposely not doing what you should have done at the time, therefore the quantum monad was not collapsed. Past life regression therapy seems to work because it gives the consciousness another chance and the ability to collapse the monad again without the fear. Now the context is in order, and that phase is over. I'll have to reread this chapter a few times for it all to sink in. lol

 

Anyway, this has been a great discussion so far, and I'll have more questions on it I'm sure!

Imbas,

    On the genetic theory, I didn't buy it either until I delved into DMT the spirit molecule and the Cosmic Serpent, but those two caused my molecules to wobble! LOL

 

Now explain this Atlantian theory of yours (WEG)

 

Tay

Wanduring,

     I've wondered about when the 'soul transfer' occurs myself and I've met people in my lifetime who caused me to wonder if they were 'skipped' so to speak. I've heard it surmised by many of the religious that it occurs at birth however I'm not sure I believe that either, some part of me believes it happens as a spirit chooses its conception and I realize that cannot be proven.

 

I would have to agree with you on genetic programming, as we bred birds for many years in effort to bring about specific traits and reduce others and many horticulturists and husbandry experts practice the same thing daily. I feel that it can make a species stronger, however it can be argued that it weakens species as well, but that's according to poor science IMHO. As usual the few screw it up for us all. This hearkens back to the cloning issue for me, because for many reasons I agree with the experiment if for nothing other than to cure diseases. Finding those weaknesses in the DNA and correcting them I feel is a great thing, the great work so to speak, but there of course are those religious fanatics who want to argue that it's playing god and they too would be correct, because there are the fanatic scientists who would love nothing more than to assume a position of godhood! OY.

 

On the stimuli, for years doctors have worked on me because I have some strange nerve problems, shafts of the nerves are forming lumps and I respond differently to pain and pleasure than others, certain things that should hurt me don't and strange sensations occur on the surface of my skin when the touch should be pleasurable. Pain occurs at times when certain areas of my skin are stroked and other times I enjoy the stimuli. I'm beginning to think it's not merely physical.

 

 I also have a sleep disorder that stymies me and my family doc. For many years I've tranced and I've been doing it since childhood, so now it's so bad that when I sleep, I trance and I can't hear normal household noise like alarm clocks! I block it out and an alarm clock won't wake me, but an unusual noise like someone coming through the door, or something being dropped or knocked over will wake me. The problem is, I need to hear an alarm clock but I can't figure out how to resolve the problem, so I either have someone call me to wake me up and yell on my answeing service or they have to physically come in and wake me. So what some would call a skill, has become for me a disability. I'm reasonably sure that the reason lies within a severe childhood trauma for me, but no amount of introspection and examination has done to solve the problem. I've had to develop a sleep pattern that allows me to get up within 7 hours and within the last year I've done pretty well with that, the only problem with this method is being tired enough at the proper time to go to sleep, so I've limite my caffiene intake to half and if I have an early appointment coming up, I work for a few days beforehand to control my schedule. It's a quandry that there seems to be no answer for.

 

I read somewhere in a thread about the chemical stimuli the brain sends to the limbs stopping movement creating a paralyzed state during sleep, that doesn't happen for me either, I suffered extreme night terrors for years, sleep walking and fighting in my sleep, my brain did not stop sending chemical signals to my limbs, but as I have aged these events have decreased, occurring only two to three times a year now rather than three or four times a week.

 

If anyone else reading this thread has suffered sleep disorders of the like, I'd love to hear from you and hear what if any solutions you've found to your problem.  My sleep most of the time is not restful, I'm travelling during sleep most of the time and probably remember more dreams than I should and I should mention that I'm lucid most of the time. To get a truly restful sleep, I have to be sleep deprived for a few days beforehand, in other words, I have to be completely exhausted to the point of near falling down. So ANY suggestions would be helpful. I have tried hypnosis, it doesn't work, sleep aids leave me too groggy the next day. Regimines don't seem to work either.....

 

Tay

Red,

    I agree, science and logic have paralyzed me at times with regard to the spiritual. I always say that this is the reason ignorance must be bliss! I wonder, does living in the infomation age kill spirituality? Was the quote 'as pearls before swine' a mere slander of the common people or does knowing that man created god in his own image and vice versa, kill faith?

 

 I must admit that my knowledge of how religion came about and how politics drives it, does sometimes hinder me in my ability to connect to the spiritual. I have to work really hard in psyching myself out sometimes and then other times I am so awed by the wonder of the natural world that spiritual impetus simply happens. It's hard for me sometimes to remember just to 'be' in the moment, hence the exercise I metion in another thread here somewhere.

 

Tay