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General : The Gift of Tongues
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 Message 1 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551  (Original Message)Sent: 8/9/2008 2:41 AM
 

~ The gift of Tongues ~

Today is Saturday, Sept. 3, 2005.

I am going to show in this message the truth of the Gift of Tongues. So many have missed this and almost everyone has taught this in error. Those who do not deny this wonderful gift altogether, do not understand it, even those who have it.

So this is a much-needed truth. If only people would learn to go exactly by how the Scripture is written, instead of listening to false teachers, all this delusion would not exist. Even many who exercise this gift and are blessed by it, still do not understand it and are confused when they are exercising the gift. This ought not so to be my beloved Christian friends.

Now, let’s look into the Word of God and see what is truly taught on this great gift.

1Cor 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

1Cor 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

First see that Paul said for us to desire spiritual gifts. So it is a thing we should do, is pray for and seek to have the gifts of the Spirit in our own lives. This is not just to help others with; it is also for the purpose of edifying ones own self.

Notice verse two. This is the first of the ‘misunderstandings�?of this gift. Most people assume that this gift of tongues is for the purpose of preaching the gospel to someone who speaks a different language than you do. But see this is not taught in the word of God. He said here that when you speak in an unknown tongue, this is not speaking unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him. See then that it is NOT an earthly language at all. It was not meant for anyone. The very fact that it said this is an UNKNOWN tongue tells us to begin with, that this tongue is not known by anyone on this earth. So it is NOT an earthly tongue. IT is a heavenly tongue, which no man understands. In the spirit he is speaking mysteries. Only God knows these mysteries.

Unbelievers and those unknowledgeable about this gift will tell us that only when one is speaking to someone of another earthly tongue should we use this gift. I just ask, where is even one Scripture saying this? Where was this gift ever used for this purpose? They all go to Acts 2, where Peter preached to that great crowd and use this to say that is what he was doing. But Peter was NOT speaking in an unknown tongue there. He was speaking in his own tongue. God fixed it so everyone there understood his speech in their own tongue. Surely you know that Peter was not speaking in more than one tongue?

Let me make it clear here at the beginning of this message, that I am not speaking of the tongues which comes when one is Baptized with the Holy Ghost. That is a total different working of God. It has not one thing to do with this gift of tongues. This gift of tongues comes only after one has the Holy Ghost, and it is not given to everyone. But the tongues which accompanies the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is given to everyone who receives the Holy Ghost. This is His means of proving he has come into your heart to live and abide. He gives this utterance, not the person. It is totally of God, not of man. The rules Paul laid down for the use of this gift of tongues in a church does not apply to the tongues which the Holy Ghost utters when one is filled with the Baptism. Compare this with Acts two and what happened in that upper room and you can clearly see this. All 120 people spoke in tongues. All 120 there spoke the same language. Not one word is said about any need for interpreting this tongue. See it was not the gift of tongues. It was the gift of the Holy Ghost being given. I have never heard even one Pentecostal preacher who understands this matter. Do they ever study the word? I really wonder.

1Cor 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

1Cor 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

Now see here that Paul is explaining the use for two gifts. He said prophesying is used to edify, exhort and comfort other people. He said that when one speaks in an unknown tongue he is edifying himself. Now is not that what I told you to begin with? The gift of tongues is given for your own edification. This is very needful for your own spiritual growth and joy. Use it as often as you can. Pray and worship and this gift will come. So did Paul say the gift of tongues is used for other men? Did he say it is for the purpose of teaching people of another language? NO. Did he say one word about the need to be �?U>fluent�?in this speaking? No. Not one word. It has not one thing to do with your own personal ability. That does not enter into it.

So do not allow false, unknowledgeable men to hinder you by making you think it is something you need to be ‘fluent�?in. It does not pertain to your earthly ability; it is a gift of the Spirit. He does it. Many times we are worshipping and praising Jesus and God with the same phrases of praise over and over. The unbelievers and ignorant use this to try and say it is false, for we are saying the same words over and over, therefore not speaking a message. It is not for speaking messages. It is for our own edification. It is our worship of God. I shall prove that in this message.

It is no different than when we say the same words over and over in our own tongue, praising him and loving Him. I do this quite often, in both English and in the unknown tongue. When I myself switch it back to English, it seems to lose the power and glory, so I then allow the Spirit to take back over.

1Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Now the unknowledgeable use this verse to try and ‘down-grade�?the gift of tongues. But is this what is meant? No. Paul is showing here that in order for the church [other men- not you] to receive edification, the tongues must be interpreted. See that he had already laid out that tongues is for your own edification and prophecy is used to edify others. So does not this fit it exactly? Of course it does. I have written many messages on the tongues, which accompanies the Holy Ghost, but I do not remember actually taking this gift of tongues and explaining it fully. This is certainly needed by the church.

But see that he made it clear that he wants everyone to speak in tongues. I would that ye ALL spake with tongues. Now does that sound like Paul was against speaking in tongues? Of course he was not. It is right the opposite. Where are any churches, which have this attitude? They are few and far between. See also that when the tongues is interpreted it becomes just as important a tool to edify others as does prophecy? This interpretation places them on the same level, but when you are speaking in tongues alone, there is no real need for interpretation.

1Cor 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

Now here is another verse they use to try and say speaking in tongues is not right or of no importance. But see that is not what is meant. Again it goes back to who is being edified, and which gift is being used. See Paul said, brethren if I come to you speaking in tongues what shall I profit you? See he is saying the tongues is not used to edify others, it is for your own personal edification. So in order to edify someone else, you must either speak by revelation [something God has revealed to you], or by knowledge, or by prophesying or by doctrine. See that the gift of prophecy was given to edify others with. This makes it so clear that the gift of tongues was never given to preach to men of other languages with. Again, it is not putting the gift of tongues down. Rather it is clearly explaining what the two gifts are to be used for. When you come to see this clearly, it will never be a problem again. You can then use the gift of tongues for your own personal worship and edification, and then speak to others by knowledge or prophecy or some other way he can understand. He does not understand your tongues, unless it is interpreted. You are glorifying God in worship, and it is joy to you, but the other person receives no real benefit from this.

Now I personally enjoy seeing others in the Spirit and it blesses me. So do not feel put down by tongues being for your own benefit. It does bless other Christians who enjoy this. It may not edify me, but I enjoy seeing the Spirit moving on anyone. Paul is not saying a person who prophesies is a greater person than the one who speaks in tongues; nor is he saying that the gift of prophecy is better than tongues. It is speaking here of the magnitude of how many is blessed or edified. More people means greater, it is speaking of how many are edified.

In verses 7- 11, Paul explains that when one person speaks in a tongue to someone else, who does not understand that tongue, then you are barbarians to each other. No understanding or edification is there.

1Cor 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

Now did Paul condemn this church for being zealous of spiritual gifts? Of course he did not. So then why are most preachers today so much against this? But Paul said seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. He wanted them to seek to use their gifts to edify the church, and not just themselves. So he said if you speak in an unknown tongue pray that you may interpret it. The interpretation then edifies others as well as your own self. So where does all of this leave the majority of church folks who do not believe in any of these gifts being for us today? Where is any Scripture saying that this was only for folks back then? Why would God tell us all about this kind of glory, and then say now it is not for you? My God did not do such a thing to me, I can grant you.

1Cor 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1cor 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

1Co 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

1Co 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

Now don’t you see that he said you can pray in an unknown tongue and not understand yourself what is being said? He said this is praying with the spirit. Then he said I will sing with the spirit [in tongues], and I will sing with the understanding also. So here he is saying I sing in tongues, then interpret it and sing it in my own language. My, what glory! And just think almost all churches today deny this to their people! Thank God for setting me free from them.

Verse 17 says that one is giving thanks well, in tongues, but the other is not edified. See again proving that the tongues is not for the edification of others, unless it is interpreted. But see that he called it well. Why are so many against this today? And they call it evil and not well?

1Cor 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

1Cor 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Now I know that many preachers and church folks use verse 19 to try to downgrade this gift of tongues. Again it is not what is meant here. Why would Paul say I thank my God that I speak with tongues more than all of you, if he thinks it is not good? No this is not what he means. He is only saying that when I am in church with others, I would rather teach them then, than to edify myself with tongues that they will not understand or get any edification from. He is not condemning speaking in tongues at all. He is merely saying in the places where you are with others, try to teach them.

See Paul made it clear that he spoke in tongues lots of times, more than any of them. He is certainly not putting this gift down in any kind of way. But he makes it clear that he would rather teach others when with them than to edify himself.

[cont.]



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 Message 5 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 8/9/2008 6:32 PM
God did not say it is least important .  that is your junk.
God chose this very thing to show that the Holy Ghost has come into a person.
 
It is not speaking of the gift of tongues.  it is the gift of the Holy Ghost, which you do not have.
 
Those workers, teachers, etc. is NOT THE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT.

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 Message 9 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 8/19/2008 1:00 AM
Who told you so?  btw,  it is good to have you here.  Hello.
 
Now, I know that you have a lot of knowledge and some good things.  But this attitude of taking away from the KJV,  on the say so of those who do not like something in it,  will DRASTICALLY reduce your faith, effectiviness, and efforts to help in the kingdom of God and Christ.
 
No.  I do not believe anything against the KJV.  It is God's Holy Word. 
 
Ask yourself,  DO YOU KNOW ORIGINAL GREEK?
 
dID THE PERSON WHO TOLD YOU THIS KNOW ORIGINAL GREEK?
 
I seriously doubt either.  And even if you and they did,  I KNOW MY GOD GAVE ME HIS PURE WORD.
 
I Know my God cared enough about his Word, and my need to have it,  that He did very closely watch over his Word, direct those whom he called to translate it,  and He gave it to me pure.
 
Now what is it that you do not like about the KJV about the UNKNOWN TONGUE?
 
Think this over.  Paul said  NO MAN -----SEE THAT---IS THAT ALSO NOT IN THE ORGINAL----IF SO---HOW MUCH MORE ARE YOU GOING TO QUESTION AND DELETE?---WHO GAVE YOU THAT AUTHORITY OR POWER OR KNOWLEDGE?
 
Did God tell you to change his Word and go about teaching others to DOUBT HIS WORD?  i SAY  no,  He did not.  It is a delusion which you have accepted from others who also do not like ALL OF THE WORD OF GOD.
 
Now Paul said,  --- no   man ---understands him........this means no man in this world understands the UNKNOWN TONGUE,  FOR IT IS NOT AN EARTHLY LANGUAGE.
 
Again,  welcome to Bottf.
 
I hope we can get some good things here together.  I admire much of what you say,   but not all of it.  So    ask  God,  where is your faith damnaged?  and it is,  for you to sling words out against the KJV, at someone else' word.
 
Jo

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 Message 10 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 8/19/2008 1:01 AM
The same God who forbids adding to his Word, also forbids TAKING AWAY FROM IT.
 
So be very careful.  Ask God to restore your full FAITH.

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 Message 11 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 8/19/2008 1:34 AM
Skyangel,  I read your message on tongues.  I think you are missing something very important here.  Are you willing to learn?  Or are you set that you now know it all and cannot have missed something?
 
I hope you are still willing to learn, for you need to learn this and stop teaching things which will harm others.
 
Much of what you said is truth....but not when it comes to the tongues which God gives us.
 
Now if you are willing to let the Word of God speak, it will be easy to see this.
 
I will start here:
 
1Cor 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
 
See that Paul says more here than just 'unknown' , which you are denying.
 
Watch this:  He said when speaking in an unknown tongue,  we are NOT---SEE?  NOT  SPEAKING UNTO MEN,   but we are speaking unto   GOD. 
 
Have you never see that?   for   NO  MAN  understands him.  see?  no man on all of earth, understands this 'tongue';  and it is not meant for or to any of them.  It is to  GOD AND GOD ALONE.
in the SPIRIT,  he is speaking MYSTERIES.
 
Now get this.  I will go slowly.  too much  is lost on the reader.

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 Message 12 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 8/19/2008 1:41 AM

1Cor 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

1Cor 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

See, this tongue is NOT for edifying others.  It is for SELF EDIFICATION, alone.

 

1Cor 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1cor 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

1Co 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

1Co 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

Now don’t you see that he said you can pray in an unknown tongue and not understand yourself what is being said? He said this is praying with the spirit. Then he said I will sing with the spirit [in tongues], and I will sing with the understanding also. So here he is saying I sing in tongues, then interpret it and sing it in my own language. My, what glory! And just think almost all churches today deny this to their people! Thank God for setting me free from them.

Verse 17 says that one is giving thanks well, in tongues, but the other is not edified. See again proving that the tongues is not for the edification of others, unless it is interpreted. But see that he called it well. Why are so many against this today? And they call it evil and not well?

If one can pray and their own understanding not know what is said,  IT HAS TO BE AN UNKNOWN TONGUE.

He said  I will pray with the SPIRIT.  (in tongues)  and I will pray with the understanding also.  Two different ways of praying.

 

singing in the spirit, is singing in the unknown tongues.  It is speaking mysteries to God and edifying the person who is God's child.

 


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 Message 13 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 8/19/2008 1:53 AM
All truth is established with two or more witnesses.  When a thing is stated in at least two different Scriptures,  God has established it as truth.
 
Now it is fully established, with the needed three witnesses, that when one receives the HOLY GHOST,  they WILL ABSOLUTELY SPEAK IN TONGUES    AS  THE  SPIRIT  GIVES   THE UTTERANCE.
 
it is not you speaking,  but the Spirit speaking in you.
 
You cannot stop this from being true.  You are only harming others when you try to teach against this as God's established method of filling his children with the HOLY GHOST.
 
It is not an earthly language, nor is it used for that purpose.
 
All human babies, if they can use their vocal cords,  must FIRST go through the BABY BABBLYING,  before they can speak plainly.  It is one of the most beautiful things in this world.
 
Yesterday as I listened to my Great Granddaughter,  seven months old,  doing this sweet baby jabbering,  I realized this important thing.   Guess God was preparing me for this with you.
 
We must go through this stage FIRST.  We must CRAWL before we walk.  We must speak in tongues, or baby 'talk' before we can speak PLAINLY.  And I fully believe that God loves to hear his children speaking in this darling 'tongue', just as I enjoyed hearing that baby talking to us in her only way.
 
 
Now watch this: 
<NOBR>Isa 32:3</NOBR> And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken.
<NOBR>Isa 32:4</NOBR> The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly.

This is the STAGES of Spiritual growth:

first they see dimmly.  then they see plainly, as more understanding comes to them.   We then HEAR and hearken to God.

the TONGUE of the STAMMERERS shall be ready to SPEAK PLAINLY.

 

But they must go through that STAMMERING stage FIRST.

Do not try to stop this.  God set it.  The natural types the Spiritual.   That baby just stammer first.  It is most wonderful.

God chose this way to show HIS SPIRIT HAS COME INTO A PERSON.  It is HIS SPIRIT SPEAKING THOUGH THAT BABY.....SO STOP SLANDERING IT....lest God become angry at you.

Jesus speaks to us with the STAMMERING LIPS, IT IS THE REST OF GOD.

yOU ARE teaching on the stage when they are ready to speak plainly.  But do not skip this important early stammering lip stage.  Jesus did also speaking with the stammering lip tongues,   which needed INTERPRETATION.  EVEN ON THE CROSS.  SO IT WILL FOLLOW US ALL THE WAY TO THE END OF LIFE.

JO


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 Message 14 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 8/19/2008 2:40 AM
Skyangel,  you said that the separating of the people after the flood, after their tongues, did not pertain to languages.
 
I think you are missing something here also.  You said that because they were all of the same family, that they all spoke the same language.  This is truth.....but see, this is at the time when God CONFOUNDED their languages.
 
God changed that so that they did not speak the same languages any longer.  So this is how he divided them according to their tongues--- it is speaking about the new tongues which he gave to each of them.  btw,  this is earthly languages, not spiritual.
 
I believe they were scattered away from each other, as each family had been given a different language, they were sent away from each other.
 
So all of that different 'definitions' you listed for the TONGUE, is not really necessary to teaching this truth.
 
while it is true that we do speak a DIFFERENT spiritual language, so that those who do not understand the revelation of Scripture, cannot understand us,  this is NOT what he is speaking about there, or when one receives the Holy Ghost.  This is when the lips of the stammerers are ready to speak PLAINLY.   As Jesus told his disciples,  Now I will speak PLAINLY to you about the Father.
 
This is very clearly laid out in Scripture.

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 Message 15 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 8/19/2008 2:45 AM
Go back and really read my message.  Be very careful of how you speak against this SIGN GIFT.  It is the SIGN which shall be spoken against and it is truly the most spoken against gift in all Scripture.
 
It is scorned by the world, because it is the way God chose to FILL ONE WITH THE HOLY GHOST.  One must be willing to humble themselves and allow God to speak through them in this manner.
 
When it is from God, it is most glorious, as we KNOW that it is not ourselves doing it,  but God himself.
 
We do not ever out-grow our need for this kind of self-edification.  Just because we can now speak PLAINLY  (meaning revelation)---does not mean that we no longer need this joy from the Lord.  For even Jesus spoke in tongues,  needing interpretation ON THAT CROSS.  God manifested this sign gift right there on that cross.
 
Jo

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 Message 16 of 18 in Discussion 
From: MSN NicknameFreeborn551Sent: 8/19/2008 2:55 AM
Skyangel,  Peter did NOT say he knew that Cornelius and his family had received the Holy Ghost the same as they had,  BECAUSE he saw the tongues of fire on their head, nor that he had heard that rushing wind,  now did he?
 
NO!  What did he say was the WAY HE KNEW THEY HAD RECEIVED EXACTLY THE SAME HOLY GHOST AS THEY HAD RECEIVED IN THAT UPPER ROOM?
 
FOR    THEY HEARD  THEM  SPEAK  IN TONGUES.
THIS IS THE   SIGN  THAT ONE HAS BEEN FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST----GOD HIMSELF  SET THIS SIGN...SO BE CAREFUL OF DISPUTING WITH GOD.
 
God gave the old Israelites a sign, which would be for their genreation..it was that weekly sabbath...but that is not for us....he gave us a sign,  which parallels that old sign....it is the sign which is spoken against.......this is the true REST of God.  Isa. 28.
 
it is the sign to the unbelievers.....that they are unbelievers....for they will not receive it.........SPEAKING IN OTHER TONGUES AS THE SPIRIT GIVES UTTERANCE.
 
this is God's sign.....so do not fight it.  tell those people whom you are leading astray here,....that it is still God's chosen way.  else you are fighting against God.
 
Another thing I have watched for years----when someone is on the wrong track..teaching it wrong..they will pick up on saying  ....this is not right in the KJV...   'THIS IS NOT IN THE ORIGINAL'....  THE ORIGINAL  DOES NOT SAY IT THIS WAY....  THIS DOES NOT MEAN THIS.....IT HAS ANOTHER MEANING......ETC.ETC
 
Anytime one must kick the KJV word of God to try to prove their doctrine,  THEY HAVE IT WRONG.  Truth does not need to discredit the Word of God.  truth matches its every word.

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