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| | From:  Freeborn551 (Original Message) | Sent: 10/23/2006 9:50 PM |
(Tweety posted this on her site. So far, she has not posted it here, I think. may have forgotten.) I asked her to take it a bit at a time, for we cannot deal with it or prove anything with all that much in a thread. So I have started this to work with her 89 'proofs' a little at a time. Of course it is really Dakes 'supposed-to-be proofs'. Here is it. so if any of you wish to join in here, please be free to do so. Hope all of you will. Let this matter become clear to everyone. for as long as you are on this false foundation, you will never, ever be able to see Scripture in truth. for this false teaching BLINDS YOU. Also, the false 'jesus-only' teaching blinds its people. ONLY WHEN YOU GET ONTO THE RIGHT FOUNDATION, WILL YOU BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND TRUE SPIRITUAL THINGS. It all depends upon this right foundation, that JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
I will begin a new thread, by taking each part of your 89 'proofs' of a false teaching = trinity. Let's all three, you, bill, and me, agree to go by what is proven by WRITTEN SCRIPTURE. OK? Not by Dake. not by Catholics or any other church. Let the Scriptrue prove it? If not, why bother? If you do not agree to let the Scripture prove it, then tell me, and I will not bother anymore. But now, here is the first part of your 'so-called- proof'. (which is no proof at all), and I will prove it with the Word of God. Not to be smart, not interested in that. but to help you find the truth.
Eighty-nine Proofs of A Divine Trinity: By Rev. Finis J. Dake-2005 Dake Publishing What we mean by Divine Trinity is that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead, each one having His own personal spirit body, personal soul, and personal spirit in the same sense each human being, angel, or any other being has his own body, soul, and spirit. We mean by body, whether a spirit body or a flesh body, the house for the indwelling of the personal soul and spirit. The soul is that which feels and the spirit is that which knows. The doctrine of the Trinity can be clearly seen, being understood by the visible things that are made, even to His eternal power and Godhead (Romans 1:20). What on earth was created in the image and likeness of God? Man (Genesis 1:26-28). Do God's image and likeness consist only of moral and spiritual powers? If so, it can be concluded that man is only a moral and spiritual being. Is God bodiless? If so, we can conclude that man is also bodiless. Is God only one being made up of several persons or beings in the one being? If so, we can conclude that man is one person or being made up of many. Does God need a flesh body in order to have any kind of body? No! There are such things as spirit and heavenly bodies. See 1 Cor. 15:35-38. From this passage we learn that all things in creation—grain, fish, birds, beasts, man, angels, and even the planets—have bodies, sizes, shapes, and forms. The Bible declares that God has a body, shape, image, likeness, physical parts, a personal soul and spirit, and all other things that constitute a being or a person with a body, soul, and spirit (see note, §John 4:24; note, §John 5:37; The Doctrine of Man. Angels, cherubim, seraphim, and all other spirit beings have spirit bodies and personal souls and spirits. They have been seen with the natural eyes of men over 100 times in Scripture (see Appearances of Angels to Men). If all other spirit beings have spirit bodies, could not the members of the Trinity also have spirit bodies? The 284 passages on spirits in Scripture prove that spirit bodies are just as real and capable of operation in the material worlds as are flesh bodies. There is no such thing as a world of creations made up of invisible substance. The so-called spirit world must be understood simply as spirit beings inhabiting material worlds created by God. Heaven itself is a material planet (Genesis 1:1; Hebrews 11:10-16), having cities, mansions, furniture, inhabitants, living conditions, etc. See Heaven.
Ok, taking what is in red: -- three separate person in a Godhead. Give me one Scripture saying any of this. show me where GOD said there are three persons in a Godhead. ******************************** OK. show me what in nature, or the visible world, which proves God is three persons? Where is that clearly seen in the things which are made? Where does the word of God compare God to a man, being three, (body, soul and spirit)? Where does the word say as man is a body, soul, and spirit, so is God? Where is anything in nature made up of three representatives of that particular kind of thing? It would have to be, if trinity is right, and shown by the things which are made, or visible. Is grass just three kinds? flowers? animals? trees? rivers? bushes? insects? seeds? people? what? see what I mean? nothing in nature shows a God of just 1 person or just 3 persons. It is not manifest in nature. A God made up of many member is all that is shown in nature. Romans 12 and 1Cor. 12 show that God is compared to a body, being many members. One body, yet MANY members. So is Christ, which is the IMAGE of the INVISIBLE GOD. Where does the Word say there is no invisible world? I never read that. I read that God is invisible . Where does the Word say Heaven is a PLANET? I have never read that one either. Seems to me, Dake added A LOT OF STUFF TO THE WORD. Members of a trinity? where is that recorded in Scripture? I want to read it. and if you cannot find it, then SOMEBODY ADDED IT TO GOD'S WORD, a sin punishable by adding the plagues of the book to you. Now unless you two are sincerely wishing to find truth, let me know, and I will not bother with this anymore. (don't have time to sit and type to just be doing something. But if you desire to search the Word of God for real PROOF of this matter, then I will gladly spend and be spent to help you.) Acknowledge, that if these things are NOT WRITTEN in Scripture, then it is lies of man (satan.) Jo |
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When Jesus asked Peter, whom do YOU say that I am..... WHAT was Peter's answer? It was a revelation to Peter from God, the FATHER. (the Father reveals the Son). So now I ask each of you, WHAT IS YOUR REVELATION FROM THE FATHER? What has God revealed to you, that Jesus is? Who is Jesus? What is your concept or answer to this question? Who do you say that Jesus is? I wish each one of you would answer this. Now back to Peter: Thou are the Christ, the Son of the Living God. opps.......did Peter miss something? Nope. Didn't Jesus verify that this is the right FOUNDATION? The right foundation to build your spiritual house upon. so what are you building on? Is it truth, or sinking sand? It must be the same thing Peter said, if it is right. so. let's see now: Trinity. 1. three persons, Jesus is second. Peter did you forget this one? 2. second person in Godhead. Peter, why did you not say this? 3. God in flesh. (Peter you sure missed it here) 4. God incarnate. Again, why didn't Peter ever use these words? 5. God robed in humanity. opps, Peter failed this one also. 6. deity (Peter and Paul did not tell us this either, if you think so, where?) 7. God the Son. (they never named this either). 8. God manifest in flesh. (Those apostles never told us that either). Jesus-only: All of the above except 1 & 2. with this added: All there is to God. Jesus is father, son and holy ghost. he is all there is. all we will ever see. while he was on earth, heaven did not have God in it. WHERE IS EVEN ONE VERSE OF SCIPTURE, WRITTEN WORD OF GOD, SAYING ANY OF THE ABOVE STATEMENTS? If you can't find it, admit that it is lies of satan. or claim that you believe man above God. |
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I am reading this stuff. it sure seems clear to me that God is no trinity. if none of the stuff people use to sayu it is in the bible, then it cannot be true. that settles it for me. |
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Tweety, where do you find the word, 'deity' in Scripture? I cannot find that. |
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Freeborn, The translated word for GODHEAD is Deity (Theiotes). The word Deity is only used in Romans 1:20. Tweety |
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| | | From: Isaiah | Sent: 10/26/2006 1:52 AM |
The word Deity, is not in scripture. Now how tweety got that it is Romans 1:20 is beyond me. Better be careful in adding to what is already written, or taking away. | For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse | Does anyone see the word Deity in that scripture, surely not me. Better be careful, Tweety. |
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| | | From: Isaiah | Sent: 10/26/2006 2:02 AM |
John 6:38 - For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent Me. John 7:16 - Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If Jesus is God The Father, how is it possible for God not to do His Own Will or have two different doctrines please? Matthew 10:40 - He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth Me receiveth Him that sent Me. If Jesus is God The Father, how was He sent by someone else? Matthew 26:53 - Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? If Jesus is God The Father, Who is The Father's Father? Why would He tell us He was praying to another when He was actually praying to Himself? Mark 9:37 - Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but Him that sent Me. Again, if Jesus is God The Father, how was He sent by someone else? There certainly isn't three-in-one as the trinity doctrine teaches nor is there two-in-one as Jesus onlies |
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Isiah, It is the word GODHEAD. The translated Greek word for Godhead was DEITY. Tweety |
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Isaiah, I had copied the same Scripture with intents of saying the same thing you said, before I saw that you had done it. One mind, again. Tweety, when I looked at Strongs for the interpretation of Godhead, I saw that Strongs had it wrong, and is going by tradition, instead of having revelation from God. For he mentions the trinity, and first person, second person, etc. Now that is not truth, so it is lies of man. Deity is not of God. Jesus Christ was not deity or divine. He was fully human and nothing else. He had God, His father, inside himself, just as we have him inside ourselves. It is SPIRITUAL. Jesus was a mortal man, not some spirit. Now that he was given the same power and athority of God, and he married the Lord God, now he can do anything God does. So he can send his spirit back into us. It is a great mystery. But it is also revealed. |
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Tweety, I wish to admonish you a bit, in love, for your sake. I see you being tossed about to and fro, by so many winds of doctrine. It is nothing to be ashamed of. We all go through that stage of growth. But grow out of it! That is necessary. The one and only means of growing out of it, is to finally settle down to ONLY Scripture for your beliefs. quit listening to 'scholars'. They will lead you astray everytime. The reason? They all followed traditions of man, and did not have the true interpretation of God. They were all on the wrong foundation. If one is on the wrong foundation, that of having it wrong of who Jesus is, then everything else that they read will be wrong to them. that is how trinity got here. It is how Jesus-only got here. None of these people studied only Scripture and compared Scripture with Scripture until truth opened up. Until you stop seeking answers from some man, and go only to the Written Word of God, you will continue to be tossed to and fro and never find truth and a strong, settled place. Almost everyone will end up this way. I hope you do not. I saw where coffeman admonished you to not only take Dakes for answers, but to seek out other scholars also. he said compare them all. I can tell you from God, this is dangerous and deadly (spiritually), for your soul. It also proves why he has no sure ground to rest upon. I saw once where he said, "Israel is the wife of God and the Gentiles are the wife of Jesus". That is nothing but traditions lies. but then he turned around and says that he believes in the Jesus-only doctrine. So if he believes Jesus only, how could he think Israel is wife of God, and gentiles wife of Jesus? See, Tweety, this man has no idea what he even believes. He has no truth. He is tossed to and fro and refuses to even consider any truth. I have seen him contradict himself over and over. This shows he does not know what to believe. As long as he seeks ideas from so many sources, he will be more and more confused. See, this is setting man up as god. for it says man's words are of more value to you than God's word is. It is saying man can tell you truth, but God cannot. It says that man's words are above God's words. But God said, Let his words be true, and EVERY MAN'S A LIE. Now I am admonishing you that the one and only way to ever find truth is to seek answers only from written Scripture. Pray and ask God to open truth up to you. Be willing to let God show you and not try to prove some false churches' doctrines. the catholic church has no truth. So if you listen partly to them, you will forever be confused, tossed to and fro. If you take only the KJV, not dakes with it, and seek answers there, accept what God shows truth to be, be willing to change as He shows you, then finally you will become rooted, grounded and settled and strengthened upon the solid Rock of Truth. Then you will become unshakable and strong and the winds of doctrine cannot blow you about or down. How I pray you will go this route. JO |
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