Hi-  Don't know what's going on with you, movingon- I've never come off bup- but I've detoxed using it twice but I only took it for 5-6 days (not long enough to get a habit) and now I've been on it for 3 months I've never gone a day without it.

 

Please keep us informed if you find out what's going on.  I'd really like to find out about withdrawal from bup.  Very sorry that you're going thru such an awful time.

 

Sorry to contradict you, lifeoverkill, but I know from many, many experiences (mine and others) that buprenorphine will eliminate withdrawal symptoms.  It has been used for detox in Europe for years (I was detoxed once there) and I was part of a study in the US about 10 years ago where I did an absolutely painless detox with bup.  More recently- like 3 months ago I went on to a bup program (where a doc writes a prescription once a month) and I switched over from H to bup without even waiting until I was in withdrawal.  I had virtually no withdrawal symptoms other than some minor ones the first day.  But I'm on 32 mg of bup per day, so being on such a high dose maybe makes a difference.  Oh- I was shooting about a bundle and a half a day.

 

The other thing to be aware of is that what you get now is bup mixed with naloxone.  They do that so you can't crush the pills and shoot them.  The naloxone has no effect if it's not injected.  But if you're injecting the bup, the problem could be that it's mixed with naloxone.

 

So I think the withdrawal must be from the bup itself, but it sounds pretty complicated.

 

Marco

dear marco,

 

no contadiction here,  bup actually has a high success rate among those in maint therapy. many swear by it.  i have only had it in the acute setting.  as an registered nurse, i have seen many experience the reactions as described by moving on and myself, if you look up the drug in the physicians drug guide, or read a pharmacological insert, it does state that beware if administering to opioid intoxicated patients, as it does precipitate severe withdrawal symptoms.  but im sure there are many different variables that factor in what type of reaction a person will have.  many doctors say that in a detox setting bup works very effeciently when given on the third day of withdrawal.  like you, many people i have spoken to have had good results with this drug, even in the detox setting.

 

take care,

 

beth

Beth- that's very weird indeed.  I do know that bup is an opiate agonist/antogonist (which I don't really understand what that means) but it seems weird that it could work so well for some and put others into withdrawal.

 

I know that in some places in the world (India), injecting bup is among the most popular ways to get high.  Apparently if you inject it it has a completely different reaction than the sublingual form (which I take).

 

I'm wondering if you know much about the success rate of bup as maintenance therapy.  I've been on it for about 4 months, used a lot the first month, and have used less often since then (I exagerated when I said I had 3 months clean, sorry).  But for me, while the cravings are waaaay less than after doing just a regular detox and sent back home, I still have pretty strong cravings.  The main reason my use is becoming less (I believe) is that I can't really get high from shooting dope while on bup.  It seems to have a blocking effect like meth.  When I was on meth, the same thing happened- I still felt cravings, but eventually got tired of flushing $$$ down the toilet- shooting up and not feeling anything.

 

I'd appreciate any info you have- especially related to how much success there is with bup maintenance.  I'm sure it's hard to have any stats since it's so new, but I'd be interested in your thoughts.  To be honest, I'm thinking now of whether I should just switch back to meth.  But I don't like the clinic restraints (who does, with this fucked up clinic system we have in this country).  But if I lived somewhere where I could get meth by prescription or bup by prescription, I'd go for the meth anytime.

 

Marco

Nikkiwell:  I live in No. Virginia.  Don't know if you're in suburban DC, but if so, there's a Dr. Fram in Bethesda who writes prescriptions for Bup.  But your best best is to do a web search on buprenorphine.  Unfortunately I can't remember the sites name, but look for the site sponsored by SAMSHA.  It'll be the first or second site that comes up if you  do a google search.  They have a physician locator that lists every doctor in every state who's qualified to prescribe bup (docs have to go through an 8-hour training  course to be "qualified."  As if 8 hours is going to give them the keys to the kingdom of addiction.  But at least there are docs out there prescribing it.

 

Let me know (privately, if you like) if you can't find anyone, and I'll help you find one.

 

Marco.

Hey Beth-  No, I live in the US, just outside Washington, DC.   With bup, they passed a law last Oct. that docs who have the required training (it's 8 hours) can prescribe up to a month at a time.  I just go to a pharmacy as with any other med (except meth).  Docs all over the country are prescribing it now.  If you look type 'buprenorphine' on google it'll one of the first 2 or 3 listings that will come up is for SAMSHA.  They have a physician locator where you can find every doc in the country who's authorized to prescribe bup.

 

It doesn't work nearly as well as methadone as far as keeping the cravings away.  But I don't feel any side effects at all (well, to be honest, there's a decreased interest in sex) but none other than that.  I'd rather be on meth, but wanted to try this so as not to have deal with the clinic system.  For me, the jury's still out.  It does take away those really, really intense cravings- like when every cell in your body is crying out for dope.  But I do still have pretty strong cravings.  But it also blocks the H high, so hopefully I'll soon get sick of shooting up and feeling nothing.  I haven't been totally clean in the 3-4 months that I've been on bup, but I've cut way, way down- using maybe once a week or so.  I do know some people who've said it's completely stopped they're cravings, so I guess it works better for some than others.

 

I was on 85 mg of meth last time I was on it.  Never detoxed off it (well I did, using ibogaine, but that's a whole other story).  Don't know about the weaning from bup- it's something I'm going to ask my doc about this week.  But it's not anything I'm planning on doing for a long time.

 

Let me know if you want any more info.  Feel free to e-mail me directly.

 

-Marco

Here is the straight answer. Buprenorphin (Subutex) has some percent of Naloxon in it, and that's exactly the reason that it will cause w/d symptoms when administered while on H. That's it. And about not feeling H while on Bup, that's the same thing antagonist in it (Naloxon, which is by the way, short acting, 2-3 minutes, while Naltrexone is long acting 2-3 days) saturates your brain opiate receptors, and dope doesn't work. This is valid info from medical documentation.

Agonist/antagonist basicaly means that the medication contains two substances, one is agonist that keeps you from falling into w/d, and antagonist acts if and when you take another opiate when on such medication. Some examples:

-Tramadol

-Valoron-N

-Subutex

hi, im from england and i was on subutex up until july of this year, i used to do a 2 weekly pik up from the chemists n unfortunatly i lost my tablets, id also missed my last 3 appointments with my drugs worker n i think they thought id sold them n was tryna do a blag to get more tablets off them, cos i had no pee test to back me up that i hadnt been using they had a meeting n decided they werent goin to do a replacement script, and i was offered a lofexidine detox... which i did, i think u call it clonidine over in the u.s., i was on subutex for nearly 2 and a half years and when i was pregnant for my little girl, i started on 4mg and had to go to the chemist with my drugs worker to get it, the next day i had 6mg, and the day after i had 8mg, id got my habit down to a bag a day before i started on the sub as i knew id be goin on to the sub, ive also got a daughter n it was depressing me so much bein on heroin, id been on it since i was 18, and id just had enuff off it.. the scoring, the waitin around, havin no money, bein ill tryna look after my little girl, it got to the point where i loved it but also hated it for what it had turned me into.. before i had my little girl (shes 3 now) it was ok, i was associating with my old crowd n it was hard if i got ill but i dealt with it but after havin ashleigh it fukkin ruined me and i had to do something, hence goin on subutex, if u do subutex and u have got heroin in your system it does put u straight into withdrawals, i was startin 2 get ill the morn i had my docs appt  and i couldnt resist havin a crafty last hit before i went to the docs lol, n as soon as my drugs worker saw my eyes pinned she made me wait until 5pm to go n get my sub as she said it wouldve put me straight into withdrawals, unfortunatly unless u go private over here (which costs loads) there is a 2 year waiting list at my drug clinic, luckily my doctors known me years and agreed to shared care, which means instead of the clinic prescribing for me my doc prescribed and my drugs worker 'counselled' and pee tested me, i still had to wait 4 months and that was when i managed to get my habit right down. I found that sub held me quite well but i didnt get any gouching effects or anything from it which other people have told me they got, it just made me feel normal (wtf is normal lol), it does make u abit numb as far as sex is concerned but so does gear, and it did make me quite emotionless in my relationships etc, but gear did the same there too, so no diff really, i did crave heroin to start with but ithink it was the ritual i missed, the goin 2 the toilet for a sneaky hit, the wakin up in the mornin and havin fuk all to look forward to cept a tab to stik under yr tongue, but gradually i got used to it and i sorted my life out, lol, until this july when i lost my tablets.......i would of been quite willing to off stayed on subutex for the rest of my life, they were going to try and bring me off them when i felt i was ready and my drug worker said that it didnt matter if that was 6 years down the line, but cos i lost them i had the choice took away from me! normally theyd bring u off subutex real gradual like the same as anything so u dont notice (supposedly lol) and i werent to worried cos i thought id cross that bridge when i got to it, but i had to do a detox and it was horrible, doing a detox of subutex is the same as doing one of heroin, ive got the paper work to prove it, if u wanted i could send it to you, obv it is from an english drug clinic but that shudnt make no diff really, just let me kno and il e mail it to you.... they gave me the lofexidine and it was shit, its meant to stop yr withdrawal symptons, but it also reallllllly lowers your blood pressure, i found it helped with the puking and shi**ing, but i still didnt sleep for about 2-3weeks and it wasnt proper sleep i was gettin for the weeks after id done it and even now it isnt

 good, i still dont sleep well so now im bk on the sleepers and as for the cramps in my legs, i nearly shook my bed to bits, i had no energy, and the lofex made that twice as bad, i started on 2 tabs of lof n then 4 the next day and so on till i got to 8 tablets in a day and by that point my blood pressure had got so low i couldnt stand up without fallin over n nearly fainting, so they stopped me on 8 tablets, u are meant to go up to 10 and do that for 2 days and then start reducing them again but she took my blood pressure and it had gone below the point that they r still allowed to give you the tabs so they started reducing me from 8 lofex a day, 10 days in all i think it lasted, i was so emotional, all my feelings and emotions came flooding back, i would start crying over nothing, and the worst part was my sex drive, suddenly i felt like all my sexual nerve endings were alive again, and havin to deal with that whilst you feel like your dying etc was proper weird, i just felt like it was never gonna end so i swopped over and got back on to base (amphet, speed) i think i was just craving something as it was so weird not doing anything, so i started hitting that up again (used be my fave drug before heroin n me met lol), part of it was that cos of the detox i just had no energy, my house was a mess i was tryna get up and sort my little girl out and it just werent happenin so i think i thought that base wud give me sum energy, but it just made me depressed , i was off my head but with no energy, just sat in the same place off it but without wantin to move, but it was nice havin the hit.. my little ritual, and i was craving that, i knew if id done it with the gear id off just done my detox for no reason but with the base i knew i cud just do that for a while to tide me over, i have been told and now kno it takes u 6 months roughly for yr sleep to even get to bein bk to normalish, and cos it fuks with yr emotions, 6 months for that 2, i feel like im finally coming to end of it, i think about drugs everyday and im doin loads of sleepers at nite so at least im sleeping, but if i cant get hold off any im screwed, but i am so glad that im off it in a way but id love to go bk on to the subutex, weird eh....after id done my detox i act found the tabs that id lost (peed right off, did all that for nothing lol, ) and i took half a sub under my tongue n i was goofed out my face , it was lovely, so obv cos id been off em for so long i finally realised u can goof off em! When i started on the sub tho, it was a daily pik up for 3 months to prove yourself and then it went weekly and then up to 2 weekly, which werent to bad as it didnt really affect my life... Im sorry if it seems like ive rambled on and on but this is my first post and its all sort of come flooding out, and i just wanted you to kno what i went thru on the subutex, id recommend them, i thought they were great, took me a while to think that tho lol, but we got there in the end lol... and a detox of them or heroin are so similar unlike comin off meth... any questions hun just message me cos id like to help

 

sorry this is so long for all u reading it lol.....

 

im at college now doing beauty therapy so its all good..ish ...still not quite over my drugs thing n prob neva will b but fuk it im doin ok and i hope u do hun..one thing i will just add is the good thing bout sub is they get u to lead a normal life without scoring if u want that so if u do detox of them theres a higher percent chance ull stay clean cos ull off hopefully been tryna change yr life inbetween comin off H and bein on the sub so the cravings arent so bad  (hummmmmmmm.........)

 

Take it easy hun

 

love kate xxx

ps maybe u need your dose higher'd 4 mgs is not alot, they norm start u off on that n then move u up to 6mg the next day and full dose if 8mgs the next day or if its 12mg then move u up the day after 8mg if u get what i mean, obv to just build it up slowly in yr system but i did feel a bit shitty in the 1st couple days but was ok when i got to my full dose hun, so maybe thats y cos its just not a big enuff dose for you

 

love kate xx (again lol)

Hiya john... think the services available for any1 in our situation are rubbish whereva u are.. if uve gone n got yourself a habit sort it out yourself is there motto...at least there r people like u who have been through it who r now tryna help other people. Hey at least u wont b rattling this xmas n ny eh, its gonna b my first xmas not on anything and for once im lookin forward to it, well sort off lol... keep in touch n look after yourself, kate x