TessKnows : And I say bless you to the abuser, which is asking for his highest good. Well it is in his highest good not to abuse, isn't it?
TessKnows : NOpe
TessKnows : Cuz the intent is always that it be to the highest good

 

CzechWoods : Tess: that depends on the abuser. i know many who LOVE the abusing part

 

moonsmiling7 : i agree tess
moonsmiling7 : if i may

 

TessKnows : Well I would think it would be in the highest good of their karma not to abuse.

 

CzechWoods : Tes: you would THINK ?
CzechWoods : would ?

 

TessKnows : Yes, I would.

 

CzechWoods : so you have not varified, if your blessing was RIGHT or WRONG ?

Whispering_Moon(r) : the bless you originated from the myth that as you sneezed you blew your soul out of your body so it was said so that your soul would return to your body

 

TessKnows : No right or wrong.  Bettering karma is a goodness always

 

CzechWoods : Moon, that is very interesting as thoughtWhispering_Moon(r) : it is in the history books

 

CaffeineYann : I thought it was from the belief that when you sneezed a demon came out, and the bless bit was to stop it going back in

 

moonsmiling7 : it's also a legend in Holland czech

 

TessKnows : and as to seeing it from the abusers aspect...I know abusers aplenty and I still bless them and always will

 

CzechWoods : Tess, thats fine with me. Just no way for a witch

 

Laurelovely01 : Tess...no one is trying to change your beliefs...

 

TessKnows : If you say so.
TessKnows : But I prefer to harm no one.

 

Laurelovely01 : czech is teaching from his point of view on Witchcraft

 

Whispering_Moon(r) : saying bless you kept the evil spirits from being able to steal your soul and take you to the darkness

 

CzechWoods : maybe a way for a wiccan, cant say

 

CaffeineYann : ah

 

TessKnows : What would you do, Chezch?  Wish him ill?
TessKnows : Put a curse on him?

 

CzechWoods : Tess, first of all, i would not act before though
CzechWoods : second, if i KNEW they were an abuser, i would rather bite my tongue then to wish them well

 

TessKnows : Then you would not with that they heal/change their ways?

 

CzechWoods : no.

 

TessKnows : So you would sit still and do nothing spiritually?

 

CzechWoods : Tess, the world is not dividable in black and white

 

TessKnows : That I know.

 

CzechWoods : total responsibility goes deeper

 

TessKnows : And even the abuser is not totally evil

 

moonsmiling7 : Czech but you can't do it alone can you?

 

Whispering_Moon(r) : tess this is supposed to be a class on basics of witchcraft not a ego debate

 

CzechWoods : moonsmiling; do what?

 

TessKnows : I am not ego debating

 

CzechWoods : amen whisering moon
CzechWoods :

 

 

TessKnows : I am asking questions.
TessKnows : For edification

 

Whispering_Moon(r) : well it is polite to ask then recieve and mull it over not argue

 

moonsmiling7 : i mean suppose someone is there for help

 

TessKnows : Am I arguing?

 

Whispering_Moon(r) : so let czech get on with the class

TessKnows : I thought I was discussing.

 

moonsmiling7 : oh sorry is it a class?

 

CzechWoods : moon, yes, but questions are encouraged

 

moonsmiling7 : okay thanks
moonsmiling7 : suppose someone is coming to you for help

 

CzechWoods : moonsmiling. i dont get your question though

 

moonsmiling7 : because you are high in cosmic, godess world

 

CzechWoods : i see. well, you should know, how to help yourself
CzechWoods : you should know also, how you can get help from outside
CzechWoods : then combine

 

moonsmiling7 : yes i know

 

CzechWoods : So, as you have seen, over such a small thing, like saying a Bless You, without thought, you can get into trouble

 

moonsmiling7 : but sometimes people abuse because they were abused

 

moonsmiling7 : yes yes i do czech
moonsmiling7 : but still
moonsmiling7 : sometimes someone is crossing your path
moonsmiling7 : for a meaning
moonsmiling7 : you know what i mean?

 

CzechWoods : where your intuition is well enough developed. so you dont say bless you without thought
CzechWoods : yes moons.
CzechWoods : thats where i am at

 

TessKnows : Bless you without that are just random words

 

moonsmiling7 : okay czech then i understand you
moonsmiling7 : thanks

 

CzechWoods : welcome

 

moonsmiling7 : and now i understand myself a little bit more
moonsmiling7 : witchcraft isn't wicca
moonsmiling7 : a lot of people do think that
moonsmiling7 : well at least in Holland

 

CzechWoods : moon, exactly what you said: wicca is not witchcraft
CzechWoods : they are two different paths

 

moonsmiling7 : yes well it was on telly last week
moonsmiling7 : And there were some people who explained that it was
moonsmiling7 : but i think it isn't
moonsmiling7 : i have learnt that witchcraft is a path
moonsmiling7 : and wicca a book of shadows

 

CzechWoods : ok, so back to the toppic: questions on what had been said ?
CzechWoods : ok.
CzechWoods : so - we have seen, that it is NOT easy being a traditional witch
CzechWoods : its a lot of crappy work
CzechWoods : boring stuff
CzechWoods : you can err so easily
CzechWoods : you have to rid off all the prejudices and set a new standart
CzechWoods : BUT
CzechWoods : it gets better
CzechWoods : because, you get help
CzechWoods : on the one hand, there are the deities who will help you, and make your life richer
CzechWoods : secondly there are spirit guides, who can help you developing a sense of when to say Bless you, and when to say: drop dead

 

moonsmiling7 : haha

 

CzechWoods : ooops, was that out loud ?

 

moonsmiling7 : yes it was

 

CzechWoods : this is when the witchcraft stops being annoying mostly and starts being rewarding mainly
CzechWoods : how do you meet a spiritual guide (aka totem ?)

 

moonsmiling7 : czech has the guide when it comes in some way a special meaning?

 

CzechWoods : and how do you find your matron Goddess ?
CzechWoods : yes moons, for the seeing, everything has a meaning

 

moonsmiling7 : yes okay

 

CzechWoods : look on: what spiritual guide did come
CzechWoods : when did it come
CzechWoods : ask it: why did it come

 

Ablazedragon131 : mines says to help me
Ablazedragon131 : lol

 

CzechWoods : ablaze, eyes  its always great to get help
CzechWoods : especially because, this path gives you often enough the feeling you could need help

 

Ablazedragon131 : mine freaks me out though
Ablazedragon131 : im not sure if its good or evil

 

CzechWoods : ablaze, thats what they do at times. so we can learn

 

Ablazedragon131 : still its not very nice

CzechWoods : everyone fell asleep?
CzechWoods : ok, so i will now go to: what books can help me
CzechWoods : Czech Woods: "Book Of Lovespells"
CzechWoods : ROFLMAO
CzechWoods : forget spell books as a beginner
CzechWoods : and forget also love spell for your own sake
CzechWoods : great books are the works of Marija Gimbutas

 

intense_female : lol
intense_female : good advise

 

Ablazedragon131 : love spells i thought where forbidden
Ablazedragon131 : by true witches....

 

CzechWoods : She is an archeologist who translated the ancient "!decorations" of caves etc
CzechWoods : ablaze, they are not highly beloved by wiccans
CzechWoods : witches, though: under certain circumstances... heehee
CzechWoods : but - a dside note on love spells: love is the spell itself
CzechWoods : no need to try to manipulate love
CzechWoods : lust spells, thats a good thing

 

moonsmiling7 : but may i ask my question again czech?

 

CzechWoods : yes pls

 

moonsmiling7 : i was asking about spirituel guides

 

CzechWoods : ask
CzechWoods : yes

 

moonsmiling7 : if it has a certain meaning when you have a special one
moonsmiling7 : i mean an indian

 

CzechWoods : yes moon. it means that it wants to cover a certain aspect
CzechWoods : like, different cultures have slightly different archetypes
CzechWoods : but generally, the guides that will come, will stay in your tradition

 

moonsmiling7 : no snow i keep him for me
moonsmiling7 : but czech does colour of feathers mean something?

 

CzechWoods : moon, yes:
CzechWoods : every thing has a meaning
CzechWoods : try to meditate on your totems colour, appearence
CzechWoods : on what your guide provokes in you

 

moonsmiling7 : yes i know Czech  thanks

 

CzechWoods : try to communicate with it
CzechWoods : ask it: what can you teach me ? and what are your limits?

 

moonsmiling7 : okay

 

CzechWoods : ok, back to the books: basically, with marija gimbutas books, you will have something great to rely on.
CzechWoods : the next great book to read is, Starhawk: Truth or Dare

 

intense_female : czech any finishing remarks?
intense_female : we'll post a transcript of the chat on our site http://www.msnusers.com/SpiritalLearningCenter/elements.msnw