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Terrilee, Are you suggesting it was done so that MQOS would get enough blame to topple her rule (which is exactly what happened)? Let's face it, Mary's Lords (and especially James) were not pleased by her return to Scotland. |
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| | | From: jbrown | Sent: 2/1/2008 6:00 PM |
You all seem so well versed in this time period. I'm quite impressed and must admit that I've only ever quite briefly entertained the thought that the Darnley murder would also have strongly served the purpose of ousting Mary. How much really do you think she played the pawn, was just feed the information they wanted her to know and how much was actually under her at least "influence" or approval? |
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Yes, but there was more to it than just the murder of Darnley. I think that Mary could have ridden that storm had she put herself under the protection of her brother but her subsequent actions with Bothwell really did her in. Did he really kidnap her and have his way with her? I think not. |
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I also think that the murder was very public not so much to get rid of Mary but to incriminate Bothwell who did not get on well with Moray and his cronies. |
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Never thought of that interesting angle that perhaps having MQOS ousted was the reason behind Darneleys murder. It was a rather sloppy affair after all as was said. Food for thought? Prime suspects anyone?? |
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I don't think that the lords were worried about Mary really. They wanted to be rid of Bothwell. They knew that they could control her once Bothwell was out of the way. However, she played into their hands with her subsequent behaviour and made it all the easier for them to take power. Whoever ended up with Prince James held all the power anyway |
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| | | From: jbrown | Sent: 2/3/2008 3:06 AM |
Granted she made some really, really bad decisions.... but don't you have to feel a bit sorry for her.... she lost the life and life style she grew up in, she is a stranger to her own country, a country that didn't really want her, a country and people she didn't understand, let alone the whole religious issue. Add to that... she couldn't trust many/most of her own advisors nor family. I would think she would be quite desperate for someone who could "take care of her". |
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I agree with jbrown up to a point. That point being that she was the Queen...it was HER responsibility to "take care of " her country and herself. Although she had no training for the job she inheirited, she also didn't have the fortitude to do the job either. So her's is a tragic story. She had more working against her than for her, that is for certain. |
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Well, it was truly a man's world and Mary did not have the fortitude to thrive in that world as did her cousin Elizabeth. |
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I think MQOS allowed herself to be led by the nose in most things by Moray; as Terrilee said, her brother didnt serve her very well, rather served his own ambitions, as a king's son, to govern & take power into his own hands as much as he could. I'm sure being the pampered darling of the French Court (until Francis IIs demise, after which the Medici Queen Mum let it be known she'd outstayed her welcome LOL), coming to Scotland was not only a huge culture shock, but the Scots certainly were not at all like the French when it came to politics. Her French entourage were dismayed & shocked at how "uncivilized" a place Scotland was. Moray had a handle on it, & Mary didn't have a clue, so it's not surprising she turned to him for assistance. It's only when Mary makes decisions on her own that she runs into trouble. She may have felt constricted by or resentful of her bastard half-brother's dealings; she may have felt that, as the queen, she could do as she pleased & the lords would just have to accept it. She really did have a hard row to hoe in Scotland, because whether she permitted Moray to rule in all but name, or tried to take the power into her own hands, either way there were going to be major issues. It took a strong monarch to make the Scots lords toe the line. I think her grandfather James IV had it, as did her grandmother Margaret Tudor (tho Margaret had to fight harder for it, being a woman), & to a degree even her mother, Mary of Guise; but MQOS simply didn't have the necessary fortitude, as Dylandor points out, or training, or even the natural instincts of an Elizabeth to rule well & on her own. She was too used to being guided through life by her Guise uncles & turning to a male to solve her problems for her. Darnley proved useless in that respect, & a reconciliation would also have been useless as not only was he universally despised & caused trouble for his wife rather than helping her out of it, but he was also useless as far as furthering the Scots royal line with the syphilis issue (it often causes sterility, & even then they knew it was an STD with horrible consequences if one caught it). Tho he was a better choice of husband than the Catholic Don Carlos of Spain LOL who was by most accounts a mere step up from a drooling idiot. Darnley made himself a nonentity with his own behavior & even MQOS had to have realized he had to be "removed". It would have been so easy to poison him "accidentally", even an overdose of mercury (used then to treat syphilis) would have served. Methinks that's what Mary EXPECTED to occur. One more thing....let's not forget, in the Kirk O'Fields drama that was played out, MQOS herself may have been an intended victim as well. She was at a favored servant's wedding that evening, & had fully intended to visit Darnley afterward, but changed her mind at the last minute. Those Scots DO love a good regency, you know  |
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As far as I have read, Mary actually did visit Darnley after the wedding. She was actually expected to stay the night but did not stay at the last minute. |
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Yesm that's it, she canceled the sleepover LOL |
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So, do you think MQOS was a target as well as Darnley? |
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I think that's WHY it was such a messy, public assassination attempt. Poisoning Darnley quietly would have removed him, but there was still MQOS herself to deal with. Mayhap the conspirators thought if they blew up the house while she was there, it would kill them both, leaving Moray free to be Regent for the infant James VI. James IV (who was part of a conspiracy to have his own FATHER removed) was one of the few Stewart kings who actually managed to accede to the Scots throne as an ADULT monarch (& methinks he was only about 16 or so). The Scots lords could get away with so much more if the monarch was still in leading-strings, so to speak, than with an adult king. Mary had to have realized that she was a target as well, & if she didn't, then she's even stoopider than we think LOL |
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This is my second foray into poetry...such as it is...here it is: The Lament of Darnley Once Mary wed a likely boy Sent to her by Lizzie He was to be her pride and joy He sent her in a tizzy! But he turned out to be a bore To sleep with him became a chore, And so she locked her bedroom door. He had already done his duty And provided her with a cutie Another twig on the family tree, That baby James was her heir, you see. It might have been his STDs that put Mary off him, But that was not the reason That he landed in a coffin. He plotted and he planned his moves He wanted to be King But he was also easily led, That was his undoing! |
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