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Was she REALLY a virgin all her life?? How well did Robert Dudley really "know" her? What's everyone's opinion here? |
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I believe there were two very good reasons to declare herself a virgin. First was the dangers of childbirth. Elizabeth couldn't afford to risk her life during labor, and she had seen first hand that this was very possible when her step mother Jane Seymour died giving birth to Edward. If she died in childbirth, and the child died also, Mary Queen of Scots would likely win the crown. Even if the child survived it would become the pawn of political schemes, and Mary would likely still try to wrestle the crown from the infant. Whomever Elizabeth married would not hold the title of King nor be allowed to rule given the death of Elizabeth (see the current example of Queen Elizabeth II and her husband Prince Phillip, who is not in the line of succession to the throne). Childbirth was expected of the wife of a King, but was too dangerous for a Queen who ruled in her own name. And then there were the political reasons. There simply wasn't an eligible bachelor who wouldn't tick someone off. Marry a local noble and piss everyone off, marry a foreign prince and make considerable foreign enemies and local enemies. I don't think Elizabeth's decision not to marry was product of an aversion to marriage or male companionship. It simply wasn't safe or wise. With that said, I am also of the opinion that Mary did have discrete relationships- most likely with Dudley and perhaps even with Seymour as she was accused. Perhaps the pertinent question is why didn't Henry arrange for her to be married before his death? She was 14 when he died, which meant she had been marriagable for two years already. If Henry had been looking for a good political ally, promising Elizabeth to someone would have been the best way to gain one. He didn't expect her to be Queen, but he didn't expect Mary to be either, and he married her to Philip of Spain specifically for the alliance that would bring. Perhaps he too realized that there were no suitable alliances to be made and that's why he stalled her marriage. Pypur |
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I cant believe none of you have heard this but Elizabeth had a miscarriage by Seymour in 1550 |
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Where did you get this info? Would love to hear more about this. Is there a book or something you read? Rhiannon |
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I know about the "daliances" between Elizabeth and Seymour and the "tickleing" sessions which it is said that even Catherine Parr joined in on, but while there were many "stories" and rumors about Elizabeth and Seymour I have never come accross any believeable source which states of a miscarriage. I think I remember about a rumor of an alleged miscarriage which was told to discredit Elizabeth and alienate her from her sister Mary. From Henry VIII's death to the time Elizabeth gained the thrown, there was SOOOOO many rumors, "whisperings", "stories", etc.on ALL sides of the political fences, depending on which agenda was trying to be put forth. As Elizabeth scratched onto the window (or was it the wall?) of her tower cell, when Mary had had her imprisioned there..."Much suspected of me...Yet, nothing can be proved." |
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Yes all it is is an assumption of Alison Weir but at the time of Seymour's beheading she was suffering from severe headaches and stomach aches and never came to court. Some say, including Alison that it was her grief of a miscarriage she had by Seymour. Then again it is only her idea. Perhaps it was the grief of Seymour's death which she had to adequately hide in fron of her councillors in fear of their suspicion of her. |
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Greetings, one and all! Annie, I believe the quote goes: "Much suspected of me, Nothing proven shall be, Quoth Elizabeth, prisoner". Ninja, I have read all of Alison Weir books and I remember that passage.....however interesting it may be to speculate that Elizabeth and Seymour consummated their relationship, it is still just Weir's opinion. |
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THAT"S how it goes! (I knew it was not exact, but I gave the gist of it ) Thanks Greensleeves! |
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Elizabeth had a VERY precarious hold on the throne... not only did she inherit Henry VII's precarious hold, but she was also declared a bastard. She would never, from what I read, allow her body to jeopardize her position. She had enough to worry about with Mary Queen of Scots. I give absolutely no credit to the miscarriage. If anyone here has lost anyone close to them, it does indeed take a toll on a person in every way possible... including physically. Thomas Seymour's death had to have been hard on the girl. Elizabeth had too much to lose. She was also constantly surrounded by friends and enemies... she was never able to tell sometimes who was her friend and who was her enemy. And remember how she felt about children: "Princes can never love the child who is to succeed them".... she knew if she were to have a son, she would be overthrown, and a regency would be set up against her in his name, a la Mary Queen of Scots. She knew marrying an Englishman would cause civil unrest, even war. Marrying a foreign prince, she only had to look at what happened to her sister. Plus, look at what happened to her stepmothers, and the Queen before her mother... if she married a King or a Prince like her father... she could have been banished, beheaded, or annulled, and her position was not one that would tolerate such treatment. And the bearing of children could be deadly. Elizabeth loved her people, and position, too much to risk losing it, I think. She DEFINITELY had to go to third base at least... and there *are* ways of being satisfied without going all the way. Elizabeth knew what she was doing. She knew how much was at stake, and I think she was VERY careful to live up to her image as "Virgin Queen" |
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| | From: Echo | Sent: 8/25/2002 6:15 AM |
I guess Elizabeth I was "queen of her own domain"? Sorry, I couldn't resist! |
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Hello everyone,
Robert Dudley married Amy Robsart, not Lettice Knollys. When Amy died - she was found dead at the bottom of the staircase at their house - it was in the middle of Robert and Elizabeth's love affair and caused a great scandal. It prevented any question of marriage because there was suspicion that Amy was murdered.
I think that it would have been very difficult for Robert and Elizabeth to actually have sex, but being a romantic I hope that they did! I don't like to think of her dying a virgin! Anyway, it was certainly a great love affair and I think that they loved each other all their lives. |
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Dudley's SECOND wife was Lettice Knollys, granddaughter of Mary Boleyn, daughter of Catherine Carey & Francis Knollys; they had one son who died very young. Lettice was said to be a younger, fresher version of Elizabeth....hmmm....think Dudley settled? |
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I think Robert Dudley and her were more than just good chums. I don't know for sure or not but Hollywood certainly portrays him as being her lover, not that that is what I am basing my oppinion on of course *grin* |
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Hello Forever Amber,
Yes, I didn't realise that. Sorry! I feel very sorry for Robert because he couldn't marry his true love and had to have a 'substitue'! Then again it is possible to love two women at the same time so he probably loved Laetitia as well - just not as much! |
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I don't believe she was really a virgin..I believe she watched her fathers wives lose their heads .. and create new religions to cast aside a wife etc..and she was afraid to give that much control to a man.. I think she had lovers ..but just my opinion..:) |
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