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Discussions : Same Sex Marriages
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 Message 33 of 36 in Discussion 
From: Wanduring  in response to Message 32Sent: 2/13/2005 6:12 AM
<For a very long time mankind survived plagues, disasters, famines and other issues ...by its tenacious grip and ability to reproduce in large numbers.>
 
I ask you this, was it the ability to reproduce in large numbers? Or rather the ability to work together in large numbers to over come the enviorment?  There are many animals that reproduce in large numbers yet still very few survive.  Man doesn't reproduce in large numbers compared to many species, or most I would say.  It is our longer lifespan and ability to adapt, and also our ability to work together and develop tools which allow us to live longer and with more ease than most animals.
 
<However for the last hundred years or more, modern man has not had the same vulnerabilities which has allowed us the opportunity to reach past the basic survival mentality into a bit more of an enlighten realm.>
 
  Have we really truly reached past the basic survival mentality?  Look at the vast majority of mankind and how we interact with one another.  We are still using those same basic survival skills that we have used for ages.  What has changed? The stimulus of the enviorment is what has changed.  With the technological advancements we have merely adapted those same skills to the enviorment. That is something we as humans are VERY good at.  You look at history and compare it to present and you see that man hasn't changed all that much.  We have merely replaced magic and divine with science.  Alot is still faith-based.  Those same questions that humans have wondered for years are still unanswered. 
 
<Now the most dangerous enemy to mankind outside of nature is ourselves >
 
  I agree, but this has been the case for many thousands of years.  From earlies times you find the mass graves of massacres of whole villages and communities.  While they may not have have the ability to render the earth uninhabitable as we have now, you can easily see the escalation of violent ability throughout known history.  There is no period that you find mankind living in harmony with another, if anything it has gotten worse with the larger population.  You have the same groups fighting over the same turf over and over, but on a larger scale with a much more terrifying ability.  Without a complete change of human spirit and thought process globally you will not see an end to this violence.  It is the nature of man to strive against one another.  Those that rise above this nature swiftly are overrun by their more warlike neighbors.  You can not be a pacifist in this world without either choosing to die, or allowing others to protect you.  In the first you are swiftly forgotten, in the latter you end up ignored and if that pacifism is allowed to grow those that protect you will end up supporting your growth to thier own downfall.  Examples are seen throughout history (Rome, Tibet, etc).  Is really still just a large scale version of natural selection.
 
<break the chains of oppression we have laid upon each other in the name of survival is the hardest task yet. >
 
  Oppression comes in many forms.  Should we free the convicted murderers, rapists, thieves, or various other people that we view as anti-social individuals?  Is that not also oppression?  Where is the line between social and anti-social behavior?  You could say it is where your rights end and mine begin.  But you go through life oppressing people regardless of intent.  Through your very existance you take from others.  The strong survive (btw stength comes in many forms. Intelligence, money, physical ability, charisma are all forms of strength...or force would perhaps be a better term> and take the resources from those that are weaker.  Who decides what is social or anti-social behavior?  The group with the most power, be it king, president, people, religion, etc etc etc. 
 
<I think that at this point in an overpopulated, resource strapped and poisoned world ... condeming love in the name of survival is outdated and irrelevant.>
 
  Damn straight!  Is gross stupidity at best.  So how do you solve this?  I personally have no answer.  Is something I get livid when I see someone attacked for thier way of life without what I perceive as just cause.  As Terry Goodkind once wrote," people are stupid they often believe what they want to believe."  So how do you remove self-imposed stupidity?  I have no answer.