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From: joie (Original Message)

Sent: 11/5/2003 7:09 PM

~~The Thousand Year~~

Since The Lord revealed to me that the word ‘thousand�?did not have a numerical meaning at the first, I cannot say with any assurance that the ‘thousand�?years means 1,000 years. God spoke to me one night and told me that ‘thousand�?does not mean a number.

So I looked this word up in the Strongs dictionary. And it was true that it did not have a numerical meaning in the beginning. So according to God himself, we are not speaking of a definite time period. And this is why I have been so reluctant to try to teach on this yet. I need to do some more studying on this first. But since I have been asked to teach this, I will say what I can about this right now. But when God reveals more to me, I will come back and tell what it is. I might have to change something later if God shows me something different from what I am about to say.

One of the original meanings of thousand was the ox. It is said that this is the first letter of the alphabet. It also meant family; teach or learn. Twelve, ten, two also have this same meaning. So I think that in the Word, these words have a different meaning than we think of. But since it eventually came to have a numerical meaning, I will just for now go with that meaning. The other way is something I do not yet have the revelation on.

One thing which seems certain from the Scriptures, is that this time period will be a time of complete peace on this earth. It will also be a time when the Saints of God will be ruling this earth and will use force to cause everyone on earth to be obedient to the Word of God.

Zech. 14:8. And it shall be in that day that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9. And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

10. All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

11. And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. [When has this ever been?]

12. And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

13. And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

14. And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

15. And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

16. And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18. And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19. This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20. In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, Holiness Unto The Lord; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

21. Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

Since the word ‘millennium�?is not in the Scripture I will not use this term. God told me once to use only scriptural terms. That is our safety.

Now even if I had no other Scripture than the one above in Zechariah, that would be enough to me to prove that this thousand years is spent ruling on this earth. It also proves that there will be people here who are not God’s people. They will be ruled over by the Saints. We will use those plagues to force them to come and worship the Lord.

In this Scripture is shown the Battle of Armageddon before the time of peace is brought in.

Zechariah 8:1. Again the word of the Lord of hosts came to me, saying,

2. Thus saith the Lord of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury.

3. Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.

4. Thus saith the Lord of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.

5. And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof.

6. Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the Lord of hosts.

7. Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country;

8. And I will bring them, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

This Scripture shows the return of Jesus to this earth and the setting up of the Zion of peace. These little boys and girls playing in these streets of Jerusalem are the fulfillment of this:

Jer. 31:11. For the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.

12. Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow together to the goodness of the Lord, for wheat, and for wine, and for oil, and for the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all.

13. Then shall the virgin rejoice in the dance, both young men and old together: for I will turn their mourning into joy, and will comfort them, and make them rejoice from their sorrow.

14. And I will satiate the soul of the priests with fatness, and my people shall be satisfied with my goodness, saith the Lord.

15. Thus saith the Lord; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.

16. Thus saith the Lord; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the Lord; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.

17. And there is hope in thine end, saith the Lord, that thy children shall come again to their own border.

This speaks of those children who were killed by Herod at the time of the birth of Jesus. See that is shows their resurrection. Then these children coming again to their own border are those children playing in the streets of Jerusalem during this thousand years of peace. Praise our Holy Living God. I fully believe my own dead children will be among these children playing forever.

Now to prove that this time of peace is for the whole earth:

Is. 14:3. And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

4. That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! The golden city ceased!

5. The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

6. He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

7. The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8. Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

9. Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

10. All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? Art thou become like unto us?

11. Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17. That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

This is one of the best Scriptures proving that this time of peace is for this whole earth. This shows the time Satan, the king of Babylon is cast down into hell. [V9].

Now verse seven says that the whole earth is at REST, AND IS QUIET.

Surely we all know that this has not yet been seen on this whole earth. At REST AND QUIET! Glory! What a wonderful time that will be. I do long for that day.

Verse 26 shows that God has purposed to break the Assyrian, which is a type of Satan, out of the whole earth. Once again this shows this time of peace is for the whole earth.

Revelation 20:1. And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8. And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Now the above Scripture tells of the time when we will bind Satan and shut him up for the thousand years of peace. Notice that at the end of the thousand years, he will be loosed out of the pit and go out to deceive the nations of this earth one more time. This proves that the thousand years is still full of mortal beings. Only those saints who were resurrected at the beginning of this time period will be immortal. All others will still be in a mortal body. By the fact that the first resurrection takes place at the beginning of this thousand years proves that it is a time still ahead of us. The fact that Satan is not here deceiving any nations during this time also proves that this time did not start with the resurrection of Jesus and those OT Saints. There has never been a time when Satan was not here deceiving people.

If you will read Eze. 37, 38 and 39, you will see the resurrection spoken of in 37. Then you will see the very same thing which was told in Rev. 20, that at the end of the thousand years, Satan will be loosed and go out again to deceive the nations, Gog and Magog. So this is the two witnesses required to prove this is true doctrine.

Isaiah 11:1. And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2. And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;

3. And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

4. But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

5. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

6. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

7. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

10. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

11. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

12. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Verses 1-3 speaks of the first coming of Jesus to this earth. Verse 4 goes to the time when he will smite the earth and bring his wrath on the wicked. This is the time when he shuts Satan up in that prison. So this is the time of the beginning of the thousand years.

Verses 5-9 are telling of the glory of the thousand years of peace. Read especially 9-- They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Now I just want someone to show me a time in history where this condition has ever existed. I say it has never been. It is yet ahead of us. It is for this earth, not some far away place called heaven. It will be heaven here on earth.

Is. 60: 11. Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.

12. For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

13. The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.

14. The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee; The city of the Lord, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

15. Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal Excellency, a joy of many generations.

16. Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

17. For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness.

18. Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.

19. The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

20. Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

21. Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land forever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

22. A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.

Verse 18--violence shall no more be heard within thy borders. The sun and moon shall not go down; thy people shall inherit the land for ever. Now surely this is proof of a time which this earth is yet to see.

Is. 65:17. For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

18. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

19. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20. There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21. And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23. They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them.

24. And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

25. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord.

Now see that it is repeated in this Scripture that the wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain. The child shall die an hundred years old. This shows the longevity of that first age has been restored; yet it is not the immortal life. The sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

This shows that sinners will still be living here in this ‘new heaven and earth�? This is that thousand years of peace. It is not the immortal world of eternity. It shows us still building, planting, eating and enjoying the work of our hands. This is a time of peace but still a time of mortal life. This is that glorious thousand-year reign of Christ and His Saints on this earth.

By: Jo Smith-- Nov. 5, 2003.

From: joie

Sent: 11/18/2003 11:25 PM

Here is the Scriptual truth about the 1,000. It is full of Scripture to prove it. Why you not deal with this?

From: AngelAzul (Original Message)

Sent: 1/30/2002 6:45 PM

Any solid information on who the 144,000 really are would be great. I have been told it is a figurative number representing all those who are saved and go to Heaven. I have been told that it is a specific number, referring to the 'Annointed ones' that will rule with Jesus in Heaven (if this is the case, then what happens to the rest of us? Do we remain on Earth forever under Jesus' heavenly rulership?) This also, I believe, relates to the Great Crowd, little flock, and the other sheep. Can I get a distinction of these three? Who is part of the Great Crowd? Who is the little flock? And who makes up the other sheep?

Peace be with all of you,

AngelAzul

From: joie

Sent: 1/30/2002 7:42 PM

Hello AngelAzul,

It is so good to hear from you again. Welcome back!!

Wow!!! You have started a good message; and asked quite a few good, questions. May we all find the true answers. Here is some of my answers, given to me by God.:

The Hebrew Dictionary is the one which explains the original meaning of the work thousand.

Now, as I was reading the Word one night, God spoke to (as He does quite often)--and said 'thousand does not mean the number 1,000'. I stopped reading and prayed and asked God 'then what does it mean to you?�?I say this to show you that I did not actually learn this by the concordance. But, when I looked this up, here is what I found:

Heb. # (going from 505, which is given in the listing, it takes you back to 502)

#502---a prim. root, to associate with; hence to learn (and cause to teach): --learn, teach, utter.

So, here the word 'thousand' had the original meaning of 'associating with'; learning--then teaching which is uttering.

#505 takes you back to #504---(which is from #502)---

#504---a family; also (from the sense of yoking or taming) as ox or cow:--family, kine, oxen.

The 'ox' is one of the faces on the four-faced living creature; which represents the Church.

#505---Prop. the same as 504; hence (an ox's head being the first letter of the alphabet, and this eventually used as a numeral) a thousand.

The first letter of the alphabet = the alpha, which is representive of Jesus.

So, see this original meaning of ‘thousand�?refers to the True Church of God, the family of Jesus, the ox head of the Christians (the first stage)--the ones who had learned and were teaching.

The Hebrew of twelve also says to see #505. Twelve x twelve gives the 144 learned and teaching family.

This group is not counted as being the number 144,00 people; it is God's family.

From: joie

Sent: 1/30/2002 7:47 PM

The 144,000 is not meaning that there are only 144,000 people. Now, I know this is going to be hard for people to believe. Things that have never been understood and taught, are not easily accepted. But if you will read this with an open mind; a teachable spirit, you will be able to understand this.

Many times we read with commonly taught misconcepts already in our minds and this causes us to misunderstand what the Word is actually saying. When things were organized and outlined by the false teachers of the whore church, these false teachings were picked up and taught by all the churches; so this is already in the minds of people. So when they read these things, they try to make them fit into the 'molds' already set for them. And the truth of the matter is THEY JUST DON'T DO IT.

Please, all who read this, bear with it; do some studying. God will show you , if you open your heart to Him.

First, let me tell you, there is NO DIFFERENCE since Pentecost, in the physical and the spiritual Jew. God does not recognize anyone by the 'flesh' now. We all are the children of God by faith in Jesus. We are all ONE.

You must get this concept, to ever understand the truth of any of the Word. It is very necessary for you to understand this and all the rest of the Word. All the O.T. prophecies that God would regather and graft the Jews back in, were fulfilled at Pentecost. Since then, there is only the Church; no separate nation of the Jews and other peoples. There is only Christians and sinners.

If you have a Strong's Hebrew dictionary, look up the word 'THOUSAND'. Now, honestly before our God, who sees and hears all we do; I did not learn this from that dictionary: I was reading the word, and God said to me "thousand does not mean a number". Before the Holy God, who witnesses this as I write it, I speak the truth; I lie not.

I knew it was God; for He has spoken like that to me for many, many years. So I asked Him, "then what does it mean to you?" I prayed for Him to reveal this to me. For I know that it would be totaly different from anything I had ever heard. Every thing He has ever taught me was that way. Nothing I had ever learned in Church was true. It is all lies.

God showed me that the 144,000 is all His people, since the beginning of time. It is the Holy City. That Hebrew dictionary shows that THOUSAND was not originally a numeral. It meant to LEARN; TO TEACH; TO UTTER; IT MEANT THE MOTHER, THE BOND OF THE FAMILY; IT MEANT THE OX HEAD; WHICH WAS THEIR FIRST LETTER OF THE ALPHABET.

Now, the ox is also the first face on the four-faced living creature; the first stage of Christianity. It came from that 1st letter of their alphabet to have a numerical meaning.

So, Revelation is using the original meanings. Twelve, cubic, and two all have the very same meaning.

The 144,000 is God's people who knew and taught the truth. It does not mean how many.

Surely, you must know that there will be more than 144,000 litteral people saved; in the Holy City.

The CUBITS also means the same thing: hence, the 144 cubits. It is the same as 144 thousand.

See that it said the 12 gates had on them the names of the 12 tribes of Israel. We are Israel. Everyone, out of the O.T. Israel and the N.T. Israel, will be part of this City. The 12 foundations had on them the names of the 12 apostles; does not mean 12 litteral foundations, stacked on top of each other: no, it means the apostles laid the foundation (teaching) of that Holy City, the true Church of the Living God.

It said the foundations were garnished with beautiful stones: that is us; the lively stones Peter said were in that City.

The walls were 144 cubits; it said 12 means to double. It said the length and breath were equal; see, the 12,000 one way doubled; the 12,000 the other side, doubled - the 4-square; but it does not mean like a building design. It is spiritual talk.

All the O.T. people are there; represented by those 12 gates; they were our way into the city. All the N.T. people are there; represented by those 12 foundaitons and stones in them. So, 12 x 12 gives the 144. Therefore, (God showed me this) --it shows that all the saints of all the ages are there; that is the 144, = 12 x 12== God's people who learned and taught the truth. The MOTHER, THE BOND OF THE FAMILY --- WHAT FAMILY? THE FAMILY OF GOD!!!!! WHAT MOTHER? THE NEW JERUSALEM, THE HOLY CITY, IS THE MOTHER OF US ALL. Glory. The truth at last---free from the harlots teachings = every thing made CARNAL. But the truth makes it all SPIRITUAL again.

The earthly city, Jerusalem, was originally the city of Jebus. This is not the original Jerusalem. Jerusalem is actually one of the names of God. Daniel 9:19--....O my God; for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.

Also, 11Cor. 6 shows that both the temple and city of Jerusalem is called by the name of the Lord. When God changed Jabob's name, he called him by his own name. So, Israel and Jerusalem were heavenly names of God. (read v 20, 33)

11Cor. 7:14--My people are called by my name. (v16, -cp.12:13)

So, the new Israel and the new Jerusalem are now the people of God; it has nothing to do with the earthly, natural Jerusalem.

See, this is saying that Jerusalem, thy city, is called by thy name; saying Jerusalem is the name of God.

That is why they sing the SONG OF MOSES =- these were the O.T. people; then they sang the song of THE LAMB = these are the N.T. people; all those who followed the Lamb where ever He led us.

Being undefiled by the women = not being defiled by the whore's false teaching; not partaking of her sins (which mainly is these holidays).

Also, departing from the lying TRINITY doctrine: the truth teaches us that TRINITY IS SATAN.

God is ONE.

From: joie

Sent: 1/30/2002 7:59 PM

Jesus called his people by many different type-names. He called us sheep, wheat, corn, cattle, etc. So, I believe the 'great crowd', the little flock, the Holy City, the 144,000, the 'other sheep', the Church, the family of God, the Bride of Christ, the saints, the Holy Ghost filled folks are all the SAME ONES.

It is only different terms used to describe the people of God.

This is one of my favorite studies. I am glad you started this study.

Yes, the 144,000 were sealed in the Rev. 7--- the seal is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. This started on the day of Pentecost, with the Spiritual Jews. Then, down through the dark ages; of the tribulation of the churches, those others, the great number out of every nation and tongue, through the preaching of those sealed, came into the true Church. These all together make up the great host.

It may be hard to see, but it is all one big family of God. The little flock, the great crowd, the sealed ones, their converts, it is all one kingdom of God.

From: joie

Sent: 2/1/2002 10:18 PM

Tom:

Please read this:

Rev. 20:4--And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the WITNESS OF JESUS, and for the word of God, and which had not WORSHIPPED THE BEAST, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands: and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

v5---But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION.

This shows that those in the FIRST RESURRECTION, had been beheaded for the WITNESS OF JESUS. How did those O.T. Men have the witness of Jesus?

It also shows that they had been killed for NOT worshipping the beast. Also that they had not received his mark. Now, I ask you, when did this happen in the O.T.?

Are you saying that all this about the mark of the beast happened BEFORE the death of Jesus?

If you go back to verse one, it shows that Satan was bound in the bottomless pit; to deceive the nations no more, just prior to this first resurrection. It shows that those in this first resurrection, live and reign on this earth for the thousand years of peace. I thought those MEN who were resurrected with Jesus, ascended back to Heaven with Jesus. That is what you told us. How then did they live and reign here on this earth. How is it that Satan is STILL deceiving the nations---- if this has already occured.

Paul said those who claim that the resurrection is PAST already, that their word is as a canker.

If you will read Rev. 19:7 & 8---you will find that the Bride of Christ has just now (at that time) made herself ready for the marriage.

Now, if his bride was resurrected and carried to heaven with Jesus, how is it that she is still here, just now, at the end of all this happening in Rev. Just now made herself ready? HUH!!! Something just does not add up here!!!

Read Rev. 22:2---In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the TREE OF LIFE, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded HER fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

UH OO!!! The tree of life a HER !!!!

Now, what about that????

And you are telling us that this bride is alll MEN???

v17---And the Spirit and the BRIDE say, come.

Now, this shows this female BRIDE is saying Come. Yet you say the female cannot say a thing.

Something is wrong here. And it is not the Word.

Tom, did you forget that the Word says that the Church is His BODY.

When it spoke of his dead BODY rising, how do you know it is not talking of the rising of the Church?

Jo, (the one who cannot teach)

From: joie

Sent: 2/2/2002 5:12 PM

Tom, God DOES speak to me. How can you suggest that God does not speak to his daughters? Why would a Father ignor his daughters? I tell you it is not true. God is a loving Father; not just to his sons; but to his daughters. If we WE women, be led of the Spirit, we are SONS of God. It means he sees us as ONE.

In the day that he created them, He called their name Adam . The human race is Adam.

Every time God says 'man' or 'sons' or any such term, he is not meaning just the male of the species. He means the whole race of man-kind.

Else, how did you, or any other MAN get to be 'bride' to Christ? YOu said his bride was all men ---(where is a Scripture saying such a thing?) How do you get it that Jesus marries only 'men'. Where do you think women fit in at? Do you think we are just slaves or something? It sure sounds like it.

And if this were true, I ask you why did Jesus call his Bride a female? Why did he say the tree of life is a female? I really think you need to pray and do some more serious studying. Ask God to open your 'eyes'. Although I suspect that you do not want any eye opening --- if it includes seeing that God does not hate us women; that he does speak to us and let us teach his word.

From: joie

Sent: 2/2/2002 5:32 PM

Tom, you said in one post that the 144,000 is the O.T. men who were raised with Jesus. You said these are the Bride of Christ. You said in another post that none of us could be in the first resurrection. Then by this you are saying that none of us can be in the Bride of Christ. I fail to see that Jesus took his bride out of the O.T.

Then, if N.T. Christians are not Bride; cannot be in the first resurrection, where do we fit? In what resurrection do we come up in? How many resurrections do you see?

You did not answer my question as to how did those in the first resurrectin be killed for refusing the Mark of the Beast. You need to do some more studying into this. I think you have gotten very mixed up.

If the first resurrection took place at the time Jesus came up, and there is nothing more to the first one, that would place all since then to be in the second resurrection--- is that how you see it? If so, how is it that Rev. shows one before the 1,000 years of peace, and one after that time?

That would make three. I did not know that the Word teaches three.

God does speak to women in Grace. This is so important for all to see. He does not see any difference in anyone under grace. The word clearly teaches this. You are still trying to separate what Jesus made ONE.

Now, I wish to change the subject a bit. This thing you said about Jesus being the first born or begotten from the dead--- I wonder ---if you and others realize that this shows very clearly that the new birth happens when we come out of that grave in a glorified body?

Believing on Christ now, asking forgiveness of sins, even Receiving the Holy Ghost is NOT the new birth.

Go to Hosea 13:13--The sorrows of a travailing woman shall come upon HIM: (isn't this strange---a man in childbirth?) (don't you just LOVE God's Word?) he is an unwise son; for he should not stay long in the PLACE OF THE BREAKING FORTH OF CHILDREN.

Now, what is this place of the breaking forth of children?

v14---I will ransom them from the power of the GRAVE; I will redeem them from DEATH; O death, I will be thy plagues: I grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

There you have it!!!! Coming forth out of the grave is giving childbirth = the new birth.

See, how this fits the thing of Jesus being the FIRST BORN FROM THE DEAD?

From: joie

Sent: 2/2/2002 6:08 PM

Now, Tom, I want to do some reasoning with what you have said. You stated that the 144,000 are all men; men who are 'virgins'. By this, I assume that you mean they never married and had children. Is that what you mean?

You also said that they come out of the O.T. days. So, who are the 144,000 men from the O.T. who never married? You cannot guess--- you cannot assume anything of teaching the Word; you must find where the word clearly shows a thing; or you are teaching lies.

I go back to the O.T. in my mind: I know that all the important, Holy men back there were MARRIED MEN.

All the kings married; wanted to have sons to succeed them.

All the prophets married; same reason.

All the priests married; for the next priest had to be a son. It followered in the family. (this clearly puts the old Catholic priesthood out of God's plan).

So, I ask you, where did this group of a litteral 144,000 virgin MEN come from?

12,000 from each of the 12 tribes---- when did this group of men live---when were they dedicated to
God--- There are just too many unanswered questions to this line of thinking.

But, if you know this is true, then please show this community and me, the Scripture which showed you this revelation.

Now, I will explain the virgin men:

The word calls the church a woman---- a female. (this includes all the men and boys in the church--they are all women) (so ,lol, guess this means none of them can teach)-

anyway,--God is speaking here, not of individuals, (surely you all can see this?)---but of two groups of people in the world--- of these two groups---he said two women shall be grinding together ===the true Chruch, Jerusalem; and the whore, false church, Babylon;

Now, he called his chosen ministers, whom he annointed with power from on high by the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, he called them the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. Rev. 14:4.

Paul called themselves the firstfruits or a kind of firstfruits.

No where, I repeat, No where in chapter 7 or 14, does God say these are all male people. Show me if you think he did. Just because he said they are not defiled with women, does not mean that this is a group of all men. Unmarried men, at that. No!

When he said not defiled with 'women' he is NOT speaking of physical adultry. He is speaking of Spiritual adultry with the whore churches.

He called the churches women. He called the true church a woman. A wife. then false church, a whore.

So, to say these people were not defiled with women--- is the same as when he said they follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. Means, they were true to Jesus; did not partake of the sins of Babylon. Were not defiled with her abominations; her idols. We stayed true to Jesus and did not worship Santa, Satan, easter bunnies, groundhogs, etc, etc. We are virgins to Jesus. Me. Us female Christians. Like it or not.

This group of people include all God's true people. That great host of people who came in under their teachings, is also part of this group. It is not how many. Study the original meaning of the word 'thousand'. It did not have a numerical meaning originally. It meant the Mother, the teaching and learning. So, it means those men and women who learned and taught the truth; and Mothered children to God.

Paul said, I travail in birth again; till Christ be formed in you. Paul, a man, in child birth. Better start seeing the Word as Spiritual. You will forever be in the darkness, of carnal mind if you do not.

From: joie

Sent: 2/3/2002 2:01 PM

Tom, where did you get that 144,000 men lived spotless before God in the O.T.? Especially out of that old Jewish nation? God said they were a stiff-necked, hard-hearded, rebellious bunch of people. They were so bad, that God came to dispise them. He put them away forever.

You are terribly mixed up.

No one could be without fault e.s. no guile in their mouth BEFORE Jesus filled us with the Holy Ghost and washed us white in His blood. So, this proves that they HAD to be N.T. Christians.

It is not speaking of their having been perfect ALL their lives: it means AFTER Jesus made us CLEAN; WHITE.

Tom, AFTER one becomes a blood-washed, Holy Ghost filled Christian, THEN they are spotless, then they are NO LONGER considered to be a GENTILE. In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile -- In Christ we are all new creatures = those without fault --- without guile--- for He sanctified us forever. Brother , WE the blood-washed, Jesus cleansed ones are those pure, undefiled, Virgins to Christ.

Christians are the true Jews. (Romans 2:28,29)

It is NOT speaking of 'human' virginity; ( our bodies) it means true to Jesus.

Who do you think those five wish virgins are?

You really do need to do some serious praying and LISTENING to someone God has shown truth to. You are in total darkness.

From: joie

Sent: 2/3/2002 8:49 PM

There is so much to answer to here tonight; but I am tired, I just finished typing up my new message.

Tom, You really do need to stop and at least read the things I have given you out of the word of God. You are very, very mixed up.

The predestination does not mean that God chose some to be saved, before they lived. It is speaking of, at the time of the resurrection, if he KNEW you , before that day, If He put His Spirit into you, before the day of the resurrection--- then he also justified you, and glorified you. There was NO justification before Jesus died.

The one prophecied of in Jeremiah, was Jesus. Jesus is the one he knew in the womb; also John.

Did you ever hear of PROPHECY? All these things you are mixed up about are PROPHECY. That is why you are not getting it straight--- you are seeing it in the past---but it is prophecy---for a later day.

I cannot explain it tonight; too tired.

Richard, You need to find my message on who are the Jews. If I can I will bring it back to the front page.

You are looking to the fleshly people. God cast away the fleshly people; he said we know no one now after the flesh.

Are you thinking That God puts more to those rebellious fleshly people, than to the blood-bought, Holy Ghost filled Church? THis is a great deception. Paul said they are NOT the children of God. He said we are the true Jews.

I am too tired to show you much tonight.

I did not mean to ignor your message on the resurrection: I am trying to get something together about all that. It is not just as the church has taught you. But, it is a lot to do. I do not have time for it right now.

I will try soon, to put an answer there. It is a deep subject.

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