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| | From:  Freeborn551 (Original Message) | Sent: 6/28/2007 1:58 AM |
(This is a message a past member sent, carrying parts of Larry's message and her answers. She was a Jesus-only person. Her words are the ones in red. Larry's in blue.)
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| | | From: Isaiah· |
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. ( see he said he went unto the Father which was greater than himself. John10:30 I and my Father are one. . . ( Jesus was not stating that him and his Father was one here as the Trinitarians say and as the ONENESS people say. He referred to the unity such as was on the day of Pentecost where they were in one mind and one accord. Jesus prayed that this same unity would become a reality among his followers. John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. (see the plural word we there. If Jesus was God so are we because he said let them be one as we are one.) Jesus lived as God's servant. He yielded perfect obedience to His Father. He always did those things that pleased God. This showed that Jesus recognized God as greater than he. John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. ( Jesus received his knowledge from God because he said here that his Father had taught him what to do. Now if this is so how could he be God as the Trinitarians say and the oneness people say? God knows all things, Jesus did not. Boy did I really hit a nail ? To show you this I have scripture to prove it? You ought to know by now that myself or joie does not say what we can not show in the word. Now here is proof. Mark13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father( See that is the best way to prove anything is by the word and the word said that hour knoweth no man, not even the Son, but only the Father. If the Son was the Father which again he is not, how come Jesus did not knoweth the hour? God is perfect in knowledge. Jesus had to increase in knowledge. Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. . ( increase means that he began to grow in the wisdom and knowledge of God as we should. You know a lots of time we say we want to be like Jesus, well let your wisdom and stature increase and that is the way to find favor with God and man. Jesus said that Son can do nothing of himself, he only does what the Father tells him to do and speaks the things the Father tells him to speak. John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. . 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. ( see all Jesus wanted done was the will of the Father. He did not seek his own will as you know he said in the garden not my will but thine will be done. There is so much more that I could add to this but this probably is already to much for some of you and I doubt that some has not even got this far. Besides I have been here on this for about 3 hours and I am so tired that I do not know whether I can get out of this chair or not, but this is the truth and you need to increase in wisdom of who the Son of God is and who the Father is. Luke 10: 21. In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, LORD of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. Seperate the flesh adn the Spirit. There is carnal which you are, and that is enmity against GOd, and there is spirit which we have to have the Holy GHost to see and discern GOds word. Jesus spoke plainly to Philip in JOhn 14:9- He that hath seen me, hath seen the father. But you reject truth so therefore you see him not and won't til you have repented, been bapitzed every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. And that same Spirit comes as it did on the day of pentecost, with evidence of speaking in tongues. IF you don't obey it, woe be unto you. I have presented truth to you, now choose this day whom ye will serve. IN Jesus name..Mattie 22. All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. THe FLesh has to have The SPIRIT. Without GOds spirit we are carnal minded and death is all we have. And you are carnal minded. So Read and obey Gods key, his only plan of salvation in Acts 2:38. IN matthew 16, God revealed himself to Peter, gave him the keys to the kingdom of GOd. Peter preached that Key on the day of pentecost. WOE BE TO YOU IF YOU DO NOT OBEY IT> IN JESUS NAME. Acts 4:12- No other name(Jesus) Under heaven whereby man was given that he might be saved. IF you don't know JEsus is God, you don't know GOd and you're lost..Bible also says if this gospel is hid, it is hid to them that are lost... That is why so many come here to this group, stay a while, read our true messages; and then leave. They cannot take real truth; for it crosses their grain and the lies of their fathers. They are rejecting God when they reject the Word. Did not he say the Word was God? sure he did. It is the Father's own words; so it is him. My words are me; they are my thoughts. So it is with God. SO many Don't accept you lying doctrine JEsus is GOd either you reject it or accept it and you're not rejecting me but the living God..Lord have mercy on your soul..IN Jesus Name... Better accept truth or be lost and die and go to hell for eternity. JEsus the mighty GOd won't force you.
The FLeshly adam was the first ADAM, SPirituall adam is hte second adam, but if you had Gods spirit you would know that..First adam sinned in the garden and lost GOd. But JEsus came and was that second adam symbolically and gave us a chance if we believe his word in SPirit and in truth to become the sons of GOd. IF YOU ONLY BELIEVED TRUTH>>> The Spirit of GOd is greater. The flesh man Jesus was Not. Jesus was speaking of his FLESH, flesh is not greater than the SPirit. The spirit of GOd gives life and more abundantly. Read and obey Acts 2:38 or die lost. GOds word is plain and simple and it cuts like a two edged sword. It cuts out all traditions, customs, and laws of men and it cuts this flesh and hurts because it goes against FLESH. No just goes to prove you believe a lie and you will be damned and are damned if you continue in this lie..Its not me you're rejecting..but God and his word of TRuth. IN Jesus name..Mattie | | | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 12/13/2003 11:39 PM | | Mattie, what lie to you think we are saying? what truth do you think we are rejecting? Listen, Both Isaiah and I teach baptism in Jesus Name for the remission of sins more than anyone I know of. We also teach it is absolutely necessary for salvation, for it is the only way to get sins remitted. We also teach one must receive the Baptism of the HOly Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues as the Spirit give utterance. We have both experienced that. I speak in tongues almost every day. I worship God every day and feel his glorious presence with me. He speaks to me; He teaches me continually. But the REASON for baptism in the Name of Jesus is NOT that he is God and the only one. If you would take some time and read even just a little bit here, you would find that we stress this baptism continually to the much dismay of our members here. We battle this with everyone who comes in here. We teach EXACTLY what Peter and Paul taught. Nothing more and nothing less. Word for Word. No church on earth that I have ever heard of does that. Not one. 1Cor. 11: 3. But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. Now that is the reason for Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ. We are under the direct headship, or authority of Jesus Christ. We are not under the direct headship of God. Only Jesus is there. I will tell you this, and I am sure you know it. The Jesus-only preachers are like most others; they have only a few choice verses they ever preach which they 'think' teaches their false doctrine. They never even study the rest of the Word. They never teach the rest of the Word. They cannot take it. Most church people are not going to study anyway. They just accept whatever their preacher tells them. They bank on it. The will send their soul to hell over it. But if you study the Whole Word, you will see they cannot take even a tiny bit of it. Jesus spoke constantly of His Father as ANOTHER being; not as himself. He said He , Him, His, My Father. These personal pronouns show a different being other than the one doing the speaking. That Jesus -only lie makes Jesus' every word sound foolish. God is the HEAD of Christ. This means God is in authority over Jesus. Jesus admited that. Jesus told us by the authority of His Father in Mat. 28:19 to go baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the HG. NOw Jesus is NOT THE NAME OF THE FATHER OR THE HG. Jesus is only the name of the Son. The term 'in the name of' means under the authority of. In the name of the USA, means under the authority of the USA. Do you not know this? That is what is meant here; not any name for a formular. It is the authority by which the command is given. Jesus was under the authority of the Father. So He spoke under the Father's authority. We do not have that position. For a human person to try to invoke the name of the Father is to usupt the authority of Jesus. We cannot do that. By baptizing in the Name of Jesus, we acknowledge that we submit to the authority of Jesus. That is as far as we can or need to go. He interceeds to the Father for us. JO | |
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Mattie as Joie has stated in her response that we both have received the baptism of the Holy Ghost and been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin and we both have spoke in tonguesas the spirit of God gives the utterance. We have the same Holy Ghost that the apostles have. Why are you so intent saying that we need this born again experience when we have already received that experience. You know nothing about me and yet you continue to say that I need to obey Acts 2:38 which I have done years ago. But you continue to say I need to obey the truth. Let me tell you what is truth and what the foundation is the truth is found on. First of all the word is the truth. We both agree to this I am sure. Ok the word says that Jesus would build his church on the revelation that the Father gave to Peter. The revelation that the Father gave to Peter was this. That Jesus is the Son of the living God, not that the Father was the Son. I see no where in scripture that Jesus was God. It is not me that has rejected the truth mattie but if you do not see that Jesus is not God it is you that is rejecting truth. Jesus said to Peter that flesh and blood has not revealed to you this Peter but my Father which is in heaven has revealed this to you. Jesus was standing there in flesh and blood and this is what he was saying. Peter I did not reveal to you this but my Father which is heaven has revealed this to you. How could Jesus say this if he was God. Jesus was was standing there in flesh and blood and God was in heaven. Just does not make any sense. | |
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| You cannot stop me unless God allows it. GOd is all power. You have no choice as long as God allows it...and you are not God so come off your high horse and humble yourself before GOd before its too late..God doesn't always strive with man. IN Jesus name..Mattie | <NOBR>First </NOBR> <NOBR>Previous </NOBR> <NOBR>2-3 of 3 </NOBR> <NOBR>Next </NOBR> <NOBR>Last </NOBR> <NOBR> Delete Replies </NOBR> | Reply
| | | From: joie | Sent: 12/13/2003 10:40 PM | | Mattie, who are what is this post all about? Who are you fussing at? what is this? Do you wish to discuss Scripture with us or Not? Have we already hit a 'sore spot?" Sure sounds like it. No one here claims to be God. Where did you get that from? We are here to teach the Word of God. Those who are hungry and thirsty for God and His Word will come and eat and be fed the precious truth of God. All others will shake their heads in dumb, blind, darkness and walk away still blind and headed into outer darkness. Now you said humble yourself.......ask yourself.....is this post of your said in an humble spirit? Jo | | |
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| Whoa mule!!!!!! Stop and let me off. Since I am on a high horse.But you not a horse you a mule.. Mattie I think first you should stop and get off your high horse. I was not going to allow you to take a post that was not even sent to you and take my post and slaughter what I had said to another person by inserting your words in my post that was not even sent to you.. I had not even mentioned you any where and matter of fact you have and was not even on the board when I sent that post. I see no where that you as Soulcompellor had even been on the board. You took something that was not even directed to you and tried to use subtility in my post. As for as what you added there is no truth to what you sais and I quote you since you have added it to my post. You can not take scripture and prove what you said and these are your quotes. Jesus is GOd according to his word and his word is the final authority not mans oppinion.( Mattie) Show us scripture where Jesus is God. Jesus is God is what is man's oppinion, not the word. The word says that Jesus is the Son of God. God was manifest in the flesh. Isaiah 9:6- Jesus, the son given us, is The Almighty God. Matthew 1:23- Jesus, the son given, the child born, was Emmanuel, which being interpreted is GOd with us. God is a Spirit; and they that worship him must worship him IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH- John 4:24 ( mattie) Here you are saying that Jesus was God in the flesh and then you say that God is a spirit. Which one is what mattie? make up your mind. If Jesus was God in the flesh how can God be a spirit? He also would have to be flesh. Answer another question for me. Did Mary birth God? Was God borne of the woman Mary under the law. As for as Jesus being almighty God you need to read the message that joie did on Emmanuel? It might just open your understanding if you are willing to come down off your high horse. You also said that Jesus is the Almighty God tell me how that the Almighty God, a holy God could have went into hell with all those sins of the world. God did not do it his Son Jesus Christ did. That is why God had to forsake Jesus because he took on all the sins of the world. All that you are doing by calling Jesus God is you are taking away from the wonderful work of the man Jesus. Yes Jesus was a man. God is not a man neither is he the Son of man. Jesus said the works he done, greater works shall we do-John 14:12- Verily, verily I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. Thats flesh speaking there. And Ephesians 4:11-15 says God put the five fold ministry in the church for the perfecting of the saints.
So therefore you are wrong...according to GODS WORD>NOT ME. (mattie) Mattie can you see not what you are saying here? Jesus said I do these greater works because I go to the Father. Is Jesus talking foolish here? If he is the Father why would he say I go to the Father? This is foolish talk. why would he have to go the Father if he was the Father? This makes my head spin and I BET IT ALSO MADE Jesus head spin . He knew not where he was going or coming. Such foolish talk. Well We have already proved that Jesus is God according to scripture and we know GOd is the Holy GHost, that spirit of truth that leads to all truth.GOd is a spirit- John 4:24. ( mattie) Well I must have missed this. Where have you proved Jesus is God by the scripture? What Bible are you using? Are you using the KJV? Evidently not because that is what myself and joie uses and ours says he is the Son of God. | |
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| Listen Isaiah..thats why not very many jews were converted to truth..they were GOds chosen people and still are..but they didnt' receive JEsus when he came to earth. They would not except the fact Jesus is GOd. Thats truth...As for correcting you..2Timothy 3:16- All scripture is given by inspiration of GOd, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17- THat the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. See it don't matter what I say. But when Gods word backs me up.>WOE BE UNTO YOU. One thing for sure you won't stand before Jesus the mighty God and say you never heard the truth. I will tell you this your blood is not on my hands. whether you receive Jesus and truth is up to you, not even GOd will force truth on you. But woe be unto me if I tell you anything but truth, and WOE BE UNTO YOU IF I PRESENTED TRUTH and you rejected it. JEsus is GOd thats truth..You can either believe or deny truth. Thats your choice..But you better prayerfully seek the Lord about it. IN Jesus name Mattie..I praise the name of Jesus cause I know by Scripture JEsus is GOd. I haven't always known him in spirit and in truth. But when I began to seek Jesus with my whole heart, He revealed himself to me by his word and he will you too, if you get serious enough..Bible says He is not a jew that is one outwardly, but he is a jew inwardly. Have you read and obeyed Acts 2:38? if not you better take hold of truth and obey that key, for thats GOds only plan of salvation. Anything else is a lie. | | <NOBR>First </NOBR> <NOBR>Previous </NOBR> <NOBR>2 of 2 </NOBR> <NOBR>Next </NOBR> <NOBR>Last </NOBR> <NOBR>Delete Replies </NOBR> | | Reply
| | | From: joie | Sent: 12/13/2003 11:53 PM | | He is not a jew that is one outwardly, but he is a jew inwardly[Mattie]
Mattie, those Jews right there, the inward Jews are God's only chosen people. We are. We the true Christians are God's only chosen people He chose those of us who come to him by faith, and not by law. He took of the twain = Jews and Gentils, and made one NEW MAN. This is the true Church. Not some man-made denomination. There is no difference in Jews and anyone else. We are ALL ONE. OPPS. how many? All millions of us are all ONE. wOW. hOW? The true church is built upon the one and only true foundation that JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD. Nowhere did it say Peter believe Jesus is God. Did Peter say, I believe you are God? Nope. He said I beleive you are the SON OF THE LIVING GOD. Did Jesus himself verify this statement? Of course he did. He declared that Peter received this revelation for the Father is Heaven. He said you did not receive this true revelation from FLESH AND BLOOD. Jesus was flesh and blood. You have already quoted a true Scripture here several times. But did you ever once really stop 'quoting' words and 'hear' what was said? Nope, you did not. GOD IS A SPIRIT. GOD IS A SPIRIT. GOD IS A SPIRIT. Luke 24: 39. Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. ......A SPIRIT HATH NOT FLESH AND BONES AS YE SEE ME HAVE. Who spoke that? Jesus. When? After his resurrection. Is Jesus a Spirit? Nope. He is still a man. There is one mediator and one mediator between ---opps -----BETWEEN God and men,,,,,,,,,the MAN, CHRIST JESUS. Now does your preacher teach this? Do YOu? God is a spirit. Feel me and see that a spirit has NOT FLESH AND BONES as I have. (Jesus). Who do you believe? Your preacher or Jesus? | | |
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| Exodus 3:14- And God said Unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. This is God assurance and his word saying that I WILL SAY IAM and you will Know I am GOd. John 8:58-Jesus said unto him, Before Abraham, I am. God was identifying himself. See its not oppinion but the word who says who GOd is. Revelation 22:16- I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. GOd said He would give his glory to no other. THink about it..God is all power, Yet the new testiment says GOd made Jesus the fulness of the godhead, He is made both Lord and Christ. God said in Malachi 3:6- I am Lord, and I CHANGE NOT. He HAS AND WILL ALWAYS BE LORD,God will. ACts 2:36- Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Malachi 3:6- For I am the Lord, I change not; Ephesians 4:5- ONe Lord, one faith, one baptism ONE LORD, and if you say there is two lords..Jesus and God then you are calling GOd a liar..HE IS ONE LORD< GOD AND JESUS IS HIS NAME. GOd is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth John 4:24. Except a man is born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven- John 3:3. A birth has to take place..not just any old way..but Gods got one key, one way, after all he is one Lord and JEsus is his name..that key is To Repent, be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy GHost.Acts 2:38. John 14:6- Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. verse 9- He said to philip, He that hath seen me hath seen the Father. What more proof do you need..OH THERE IS PLENTY OF SCRIPTURES TO BACK ME UP>>BY THE WORD OF GOD! Revelation 1:5- And from Jesus CHrist, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us and washed us from our sins(NOW WE KNOW ONLY GOD IS ABLE TO SAVE US AND FORGIVE OUR SINS AND CLEANSE US>>HMM SO THEREFORE JESUS WAS GOD IN THE FLESH< ) in his own blood, 6- And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. (Isaiah 42:8- I am the Lord:(THERES THAT I AM AGAIN< IDENTIFYING GOD) that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. SO therefore if Jesus is glorified, praised and given dominion we know that he is GOd. Gods word says he would give his glory and praise TO NO OTHER. We must rightly divide the word. 7- Behold he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, AMEN. 8- I (JESUS) am alpha and omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, which was, and which is to come, The ALMIGHTY. Isaiah 9:6 identifies the ALMIGHTY AS GOD, AND Jesus is the son, child, the God almighty. There are many more scriptures if you need them. Gods word from Genesis to Revelation says JESus is GOd. LEt God be true and his word for GOd is the word, Jesus is God in the flesh as I have proved here. Therefore you are a liar and of your father, satan . In JEsus name..Mattie..THe word is the final authority..NOT ME< NOT YOU> BUT JESUS THE MIGHTY GOD< THe WORD MANIFEST IN THE FLESH John 1:1,14. Read it for yourself. GOd won't force truth on you, but now is the time to repent and come unto Jesus Isaiah..and accept truth or die lost..IN JEsus name..Mattie 1Timothy 3:16- says GOd was manifest in the flesh, Great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. HOW ELSE DO YOU THINK GOD MANIFEST HIMSELF IN THE FLESH? he was the christ, JEsus Christ, the flesh man come to earth because GOD HIMSELF was and is the only sacrifice that could be, the only sinless sacrifice. And JEsus is his name..God is a spirit- John 4:24. Jesus was GOd in the flesh, he came as a son, to make a way that John 1:12- If we believe truth, he gives us the power to become the sons of GOd.IF WE BELIEVE, not just believe anything and everything is alright. | |
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| From: joie | Sent: 12/13/2003 11:11 PM | | Exodus 3:14- And God said Unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. This is God assurance and his word saying that I WILL SAY IAM and you will Know I am GOd. John 8:58-Jesus said unto him, Before Abraham, I am. God was identifying himself. See its not oppinion but the word who says who GOd is.
| Mattie, are you really interested in learning the truth , or just spewing out Jesus-only doctrine? Answer this to your own self. That is all it matters to- you. If you are willing to study with us and learn, You will be trilled when God truly opens your understanding to his truth. I know that is 'looks' as if these Scriptures are saying what you say they are saying, because that false doctrine, its leaders have so drilled folks with these warped thoughts of His Word. Listen, both Isaiah and I were at one time in that belief. I once taught it just as you did here. I could have convinced anyone of it. BUT.....one day God spoke directly to me and told me this: There is a difference in the Father and the Son. The Father is a greater, more powerful being than the Son. I believed that lie of Jesus only just as strong as anyone ever has. So when God spoke this to me, it trilled my soul, for I knew the voice of God. I will take each verse one at a time and show you the faulty thinking of that doctrine. If you are willing to study with me. If not, please tell me and save me the time. Now with the one above-- here is the true answer: Please go back to my other posts and study them. The answers are already here for you to read. Take them to the word and see that they say exactly what I say. It does not say exactly what you said. I will prove it to you. First let me say this. God never had a beginning. So when Jesus said I am the beginning, it does not mean God. God had no beginning. Do you realize that? So Jesus being the beginning does not mean he was God. Remember he also said he is the ending. Now what does that mean? Have any idea? I am not trying to be smart, but only trying to get you to think and be honest with the word. Your soul depends upon it. As you said, believing a lie will never save anyone. So it is important to get the truth. Alpha also means the beginning - again could not mean God. God had no beginnning. Jesus is the beginning but not of eternity as you think, for eternity has no beginning. So Jesus had to be the beginning of something EARTHLY. Inside Jesus was the Word of God. He said the Words which I speak are NOT MY OWN. Now think about this a while. Not mine. If they were not his, then whose were they? Any idea? Do you believe Him? Whose words was he speaking? He said they are not mine. Jesus said that. Not me. I am repeating what Jesus said. Or do you believe the KJV? He said they are not mine, BUT THE FATHER'S WHO S E N T ME. Now if he is the Father, what did he mean, the Father SENT me? I did not come of myself. He sent me and gave me a commandment of what to say. Did he say that or not? The WORD is GOD. The WORD was inside Jesus. Jesus was not and is not the Word. The Word is the I AM. The I AM was inside Jesus. Jesus had a seed of God growing inside himself. That seed is the WORD OF GOD. Every true Christian has that same SEED growing inside ourselves. Someday it will have the same effect on me that it had on Jesus = which is bring forth a Son of God in God's likeness and glory at my resurrection. That is when it was brought forth in Jesus = at his resurrection. Read Rom. 1:4. So when God spoke to Moses and said I am hath sent you........it was the Word of God speaking. The word of God spoke the world into existence. So when Jesus said Before Abraham was I AM, it was the Word which was before Abraham......not Jesus. Now I know you are not going to be able to accept this or see it right now, but take it and let it have time in your mind. If you desire truth. If you already have truth, it cannot hurt you. If you are in error, you need to know it. Jo | |
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When he said the Word became flesh and dwelt among, it is not talking about the man Christ Jesus; it is saying Mary conceived in her womb, by the Holy Ghost a human person, Jesus made of a woman, made under the law, made of the seed of David, made in all points like unto his brethern, tempted in all points like unto his brethern, but, the Word that was flesh was the words that was spirit the message inside him. That fleshly man was not that word . The word inside him was. Jesus , the man, had a mind of his own the was subject to sin and be disobedient just as Adam. Just as we do. He could have sinned, he could have disobeyed, he could have failed, but he did not. If he had failed the word of God would have gone back to God, and our creation would have been lost eternally. But, that kinsman redeemer is still a man, a glorified Son in Heaven. He ever lives to make intercession to God for us. The word ‘FLESH�?has been so misunderstood in the Word of God, that it is causing many to completely miss the true meaning about one of the most important things in all the Word. This verse, 1Tim.3:16--- is one of those teachings being twisted out of its real meaning by misunderstanding this word ‘flesh�? in it’s Scriptual meaning. To really understand what is meant by this verse you must first find out what God meant by ‘flesh�? In order to do this, read Romans 8:9----But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.... Now it said you are not in the FLESH if Christ be in you. So, is this saying you are not in your human body?? No! Of course not! So what does it mean? Remember, you must find Scriptual answers; Scriptual meanings. John 6:53---Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the FLESH of the Son of man, and DRINK his BLOOD, ye have no life in you. v54---Whoso eateth my FLESH, and DRINKETH my BLOOD, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.. v55---For my FLESH is MEAT indeed, and my BLOOD is DRINK indeed. v56---He that EATETH my FLESH, and drinketh my BLOOD, dwelleth in me, and I in him. v57---As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that EATETH me, even he shall live by me. v58---This is that BREAD which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this BREAD shall live forever. Now, Jesus told them over and over they (we) must EAT his FLESH and DRINK his BLOOD in order to have eternal life. Do you think that flesh is his human body? If so, how are we going to take and eat his human body? How are we going to get some of his blood from his human body and drink it? Unless you do this, you have no life in you. Now remember Romans 8 said you are NOT in the flesh if Christ is in you. So here the flesh could not be speaking of your human body; for you surely know that you are still in your body; for if you are not in your body, you would be dead. Look back at v 6---For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. v7---Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. v8---So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. Now don’t you see, that this could not mean if you are in your human body, you can not please God? For then, how could anyone ever please God? You would have to die and be out of your human body, if that is what he is speaking of. But, he said he means a MIND. So, then the FLESH is a MIND; A THOUGHT; A WORD. It can be either a carnal MIND or a spiritual MIND. That is the FLESH he is meaning. The FLESH is A MIND. THE KIND OF MIND, THINKING YOU HAVE. Now, go to John 1:14---And the Word was made FLESH, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. So this grace and truth is a MIND. This FLESH is a MIND; WORD. Now put all that together. It will clearify what is meant by eating his flesh; it means to understand his Word; to read or hear and understand his Word. His Word is his Flesh he said we must eat. Eat = understand; feed off it; take it into our mind. This gives us a spiritual mind which gives us life. See, to be spiritual minded is life; to be carnal minded is death. So, we must EAT his WORDS (FLESH) to have eternal life. Now, take that and apply it to 1Tim.3:16-----when it said God was manifest in the FLESH, it does not mean Jesus�?human body; it means the Word that He gave us; this was his flesh we are to eat. So, he manifest God in the Word. God is the Word. The Word is God. The Word was made FLESH and dwelt among us. That is how he was God with us; it was the Word in him. The Word did not die; for indeed it can not. His Word is forever established in Heaven. In the beginning was the Word; this was NOT the human man, Christ Jesus. It was the FLESH of God = His Word; the spiritual mind. God sent that spiritual mind, the Word, here in his Son, Jesus. That is what Jesus said we must eat to have life; not his human body. This is the great mystery. This Word, this mind, this FLESH, was justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Now don’t you see, that if it is speaking of the human body of Jesus, it could not have said it was ‘preached unto the Gentiles�? for Jesus had already gone up to Heaven before the Word was preached to Gentiles. What was PREACHED to the Gentiles? The WORD OF GOD; this is the FLESH; this is the BREAD; this is the SPIRITUAL MIND; this is the LIFE; this is the LIGHT. Don’t you see that he said this is the BREAD? Bread is food. Meat is food. So, if it is something to eat, then eating must mean something other than what we do at our dinner tables. It is feeding our minds. It is reading, taking into our souls and minds the WORD of God. So, the Word is God, the Word is the FLESH we must eat. This is how God was manifest in the FLESH; IT WAS THE WORD. If you believe it means the man Jesus, when it said God was manifest in the flesh, then please take that concept, of eating his FLESH and teach it and all these Scriptures in this message. When it said the Word was made FLESH, if you think that means the man Jesus, then please explain to us how we are to eat that flesh. For we must eat it in order to have eternal life. Now all you people using (or rather misusing) 1Tim.3:16--- to try to say that Jesus was God, please explain how we are not in our flesh if the Spirit of God is in us. How did that take me out of my body? How are we to eat the body of Jesus? You must find the answer to these verses in the ‘light�?of the flesh meaning Jesus�?human body. Or else, you must come to see that this is not what is meant by saying God was manifest in the flesh. Thy Word, oh God, is forever settled in Heaven. Amen Having all this together should help open it up. Many time, we read some here then some there; and forget what we read before. Therefore it never becomes clear. But with all this organized together, maybe you can see it. At least I hope so. John 1:1~~~~In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Now a question for you ~~~~~~~~ What is he speaking of here about in the BEGINNING? What is the BEGINNING? The BEGINNING of What? Revelation 22:13~ (Jesus speaking)---- I am Alphe and Omege, the BEGINNING and the end, the FIRST and the LAST. There you have it. I am the BEGINNING. In JESUS WAS THE WORD. Beautiful!!!!!!!!! Now isn't it??? Re 10:9 <DIR> And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. </DIR> 10:10-- And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. Jer.- 15:16-- Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. This is the flesh we are supposed to eat. The book, the word. | |
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| From: joie2 | Sent: 12/11/2003 3:59 PM | | You have such a difficult nick, that I will just call you Izue. Is that all right? Now, Izue, just stay with this, keep an open mind and let us show you where the whole world has misinterpreted the Word of God by not having a true revelation. They only accepted 'hand-me-down' doctrine brought up by the Catholics priests long ago to settle their own rule over people. Now the Word said that Jesus IS --- SEE THAT? ----IS the beginning. It did not say he was in the beginning; it said he is the beginning......but the beginning of what? Certainly not eternity, for Eternity has no beginning. So the Word was in Jesus. For the Word was IN THE BEGINNING, WHICH WAS JESUS. The Word was IN Jesus. God was IN CHRIST. I have a message already written up here called in the beginning. I will post it here and you can take your time and study it. I truly do not need to re-write this. No where in the Scriptures is Jesus called devine. This is a satanic term. No, your reasoning is not right that unless Jesus had been God he could not have lived without sin. The fact is that IF HE HAD BEEN GOD, then his living without sin would have had no merit. What good would that have been? God cannot sin. He cannot even be tempted to sin; yet Jesus was tempted in ALL POINTS LIKE UNTO US. He was made in all points like unto us. So he could not have been God. We are not God. He only said I am the Son OF GOD. He never said I am God. Find that, if you think he did. We are all ONE. with them. as they are one. Jesus died as the perfect sacrifice for our sins. He was the LAMB of God. God himself could not have done that. It took a human being to do that. Only by overcoming sin as a mortal man, did it count and carry any validation for delivering us from sin in the flesh. Jesus performed all his miracles by PURE FAITH IN GOD, SAME AS THE APOSTLES DID THEIRS; SAME WE WE DO. He said all that I do, shall you do also and more. It is by faith; If he had been God then why pray? why have faith? why try to avoid sin? I know this is hard for a person to see, for they have so drilled with the lie that Jesus was God. But pray and let God speak to you. You seem to have a good knowledge of the Word; so I see from this that you study. That is good. Keep studying and looking to God for truth. All that I have, God gave to me by revelation TO ME; not some hand-me-down junk. JO | |
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When the disciples saw Jesus walking on the water, they were frightened and thought he was a spirit. But he told them he is not a spirit. After the resurrection, when he entered the room with them but not through the door, they were again frightened and thought he was a spirit. Again he told them HE WAS NOT A SPIRIT. People, read this. Listen to the Spirit of truth. Jesus proved by these two instances, two witnesses that HE IS NOT A SPIRIT. Jesus told the woman at the well, GOD IS A SPIRIT. The word was God. Jesus did not say the Word is me, a man. Jesus said the Word was God. Jesus said God is a Spirit. Jesus said My Word is Spirit; my Word is life. Jesus said a spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see me have, after my resurrection; I am still not a SPIRIT; BUT THE WORD IS SPIRIT. jzyehoshua84 - Please study these messages out that I and joie have brought forth that was done by her on the flesh. | |
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| From: joie2 | Sent: 12/12/2003 9:33 PM | | Hi Shane, Thank you for that information. I have been telling people that this 'trinity' came from idols. The Catholic church took all the ancient idols into their fake religion and called it Christian. it is a lie of Satan. But let it be known to you that the Jesus only doctrine is also a lie. Man made this up because they could not get the truth of the word. They just tried to 'figure' things out instead of praying, studying and seeking God and letting God speak to them. Most people today think that God cannot and will not truly SPEAK to people but I can tell you all that He speaks to me. He both speaks to me in the Spirit and by the word. The Spirit and the Word always agree. When the Spirit tells me something, I imediately ask Him for Scripture to prove it and he always gives it to me. ************** You're missing exactly the point. Nowhere does Jesus say that the Word is the Beginning and the End, He says HE is. You're trying to draw a distinction between Jesus to take away His divinity where none can be drawn. However, it is because He IS divine that we can be saved by faith in Him. It is because He IS divine that He can pay for our sins. The Word was in the beginning with God, and was God, but it seems quite clear that Jesus was the Word. ****************** :I took the above from one of the messages in this thread: Now I ask you all who think Jesus is or was 'DIVINE' to find me one single verse of Scripture which says this. Dear People, this is the only way you will ever be sure of a thing = prove that it is truly IS WRITTEN IN GOD'S WORD. If it is not WRITTEN you can rest assured it is a LIE. Now I see that both of you are sincere and have been studing. Let God speak to you. He will reveal the truth to you if you desire it and let him. Now you say it is because Jesus is divine that he could pay for the sins of the world and save us. No. It is right the opposite. God could not do that. It took a KINSMAN Redeemer. It took another human being to overcome sin in the human flesh and then die as A LAMB. See, it took a LAMB; NOT A GOD. God could not do it. Strange as it seems at first to think this, it is true. God could not come here and live without sin and it count. It had to be a human being overcoming sin save as we have to do . God cannot die. God cannot sin. God could not pay the price for our sins. God did not sin; man did. Paul said by one man,,,,,, one man sin entered the world. and by ONE MAN we were made righteous. Romans 5:10. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. This said we were reconciled to God by the death of HIS SON. Not by God; by his Son. 15. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. Now see that said we received the gift of grace by one M A N. Man, Jesus Christ. Now the man Jesus had a spirit and human mind of his very own. That is not the same thing as the Father being in him. It is not the same thing as the HG being in him anymore than the HG being in me keeps me from having my own human mind and spirit. Jesus, the man, hanging on the cross, cried out, MY God MY God. (speaking to the Father, which was Jesus' God. ***now does this fit either the trinity doctrine or the Jesus only doctrine? No of course not! Neither doctrine claims that Jesus had a God. They do not see that the Father is the God of Jesus. do You? See the spirit of God had left Jesus to die as a sinner. The sins of the whole world had been placed upon Jesus; on his account. He was FORSAKEN by God. Yet, now listen to this good and loud~~~~~~ the body without the spirit is DEAD. means our human body without our human spirit is DEAD. Yet the Spirit of God had left Jesus, forsaken him, and HE IS STILL ALIVE TALKING. See? He still had his own human spirit inside him. Open your eyes! See..........See = understand the truth. JO
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| | | From: joie2 | Sent: 12/12/2003 9:39 PM | | Father, the hour is come... And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent." -John 17:1,3
Read that verse. ........that they might know THEE, (God the Father)..... the ONLY TRUE GOD.......and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
Jesus is praying to God and saying to Him You are the only true God. What do you trinities or Jesus onlies make of that | | |
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