|
|
 |
|
Reply
| | From:  Freeborn551 (Original Message) | Sent: 12/7/2006 4:01 PM |
| And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. | | These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. | | These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. | | And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. | | And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. | | For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. |
Notice verse 16. This says that these ten horns, which is that ten commandment law, is what makes this whorish woman desolate and NAKED. This is that same one Jesus pronounced to be desolate. It was that old law nation of Israel. This is the very same means by which Adam and Eve became naked. They left grace and went into law. So why does these ten horns, or power, hate this whorish woman? Because the law demands pure living. Obey or be destroyed, isn't that it? Sure. If you disobey, it STONES them to death. It was this same ten horns, or that law, which constantly warred with Jesus. See, they hounded him for breaking 'their' sabbath. They took the woman they found in adultery to Jesus and picked at him to see if he would obey that law and STONE her to death. That law is STONES. It was written and engraven on stones to prove it. That law has warred with people since the Garden of Eden. It has overcome them. Only those few who understand and cling to Grace will ever get the victory over this beast of bondage, law. | Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? | | But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. |
(words of Peter). Why tempt god to put that yoke of bondage back on the necks of the disciples, which NEITHER OUR FATHERS (THOSE JEWS OF THE OT) NOR WE WERE ABLE TO BEAR? That could only be speaking of that old law of Moses, the Ten Commandments and all their other laws. But those ten were their ruling POWER, OR KINGS. At the time of crucifixion, those Jews and high priests said, WE HAVE A LAW. AND BY OUR LAW HE OUGHT TO DIE. They later used these same words against Paul. |
|
Reply
| |
Dovey, Horn also shows POWER. That is why it represents kings and these other things. God uses these things as spiritual words. Only Scripture can reveal the spiritual of meanings, such as 'sheep'. No concordance which I know of give the spiritual meaning of sheep. They will give the natural meaning of a four legged animal. You are now under the POWER of those horns. They are RULING over you, keeping you from NT Salvation. Tell me, what do you see the BEAST to mean? After you tell me this, i will explain some more about show ten horns being the ten commandments, which it most certainly IS. |
|
Reply
| | | From: Dovey | Sent: 7/11/2008 1:09 AM |
Yes, I agree "Horns" does mean power. However, scripture plainly tells you what those "Ten horns" mean. Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. Where do you see "Ten commandments"??? I'm curious actually as to how anyone can come up with a connection between these "Ten horns" and God's Holy Ten commandments. LOVE DOVEY |
|
Reply
| |
Dovey, you most certainly COULD NOT understand something this deep, if you cannot grasp something as plainly as I have showed you that the 4th commandment is NOT GOD'S SABBATH. NOR IS THAT TEN THE LAWS OR COMMANDMENT OF GOD. They were merely PUNISHMENT......ten commandments, by which God meant to bring them into judgment, and get rid of them. God actually HATED THOSE PEOPLE. he wanted nothing to do with them. They were evil, sinful, and rebellious, vexing his Holy Spirit all the time. He gave them laws by which they could NOT LIVE. hE Laid it down so hard, that only a very few of them could survive. and they were RULED OVER BY THOSE TEN.....AND THE WORLD TODAY,,,,,IS STILL BEING RULED OVER =BY THOSE TEN.......ONLY IN OUR AGE,,,,,THEY HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN THEIR power YET.......AND WHEN THEY ARE......YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE WILL BE SO SORRY....AND BE KILLED FOR BREAKING THAT 4TH COMMANDMENT. It will kill you all, just as it killed Jesus, and just as it has cheated women out of their rightful place in Christ and the work of God. LAW. In christ, there is neither male, nor female. no law. Where there is no law, there is no sin....we are those to whom God does NOT IMPUTE SIN....but you will fall with those rebellious Israelites, to whom God gave ten commandments, written in stone, showing their own stoney hearts.....so he could get rid of them. pick up a stick....stone that rebel to death.........an angry God/. No, you could never understand this. Go back and read my last two messages to you on the other thread. If you cannnot understand that, as simplie and planiely as I explained it, just for get it....go on until those ten are crowned in the church, and be the first to be stoned to death. nothing can stop it. once they are come into power in our age. They tore the whole world down, got rid of all those other nations. broke them down comletely. that is the fourth kingdom to rule this world... = <Moses = law. their power, = those ten.......the power by which you are too blind to find salvation. If you showed even a tiny bit of willingness to try to understand I would show you . but not tonight. my fingers are worn out. read my long messages on the Beast and the image. The answer is there. Print that out and study it. It will show you the first head of the beast, or mankind = ADAM. God set him there, not some man. Next He set Noah as the HEAD over mankind, or the beast. mAN DID NOT DO THIS, GOD DID. the fourth one was MOSES. SET THERE BY GOD. Jo |
|
Reply
| | | From: Dovey | Sent: 7/12/2008 7:43 AM |
Ah Freeborn..but I do undestand. Many believers have been martyred for faith in God's ways. We are in a sinful evil world. This world hates God's commandments and way of life. Those called by God have to struggle inorder to resist this world's sinful ways. Even Jesus the Son of God who lived among us was killed for living God's way. People have been dying for God's truth for ages. So you see Freeborn, What killed Jesus??? God's law? No! He died because the world has transgressed those very commandments of God. "All have sinned.." Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;...........Remember...."Sin is the transgression of the law..." I John 3:4. If the world kills those who hold fast to God's Commandments, they are killed because this world is against God's laws. The carnal mind is at emnity towards God's law. Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. A believer who has repented , converted and is been baptized has been given God's Holy Spirit to indwell.. With the help of God's Spirit they will no longer be at emnity towards God's law. Why?? because they are no longer carnal minded. God's Spirit will lead a believer towards OBEDIENCE from the heart. We will strive to obey God's commandments from the heart. Not because we think the laws saves, not because we want to be boastful, but because we love God and His ways. 1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. We understand from a repented and converted heart that God's ways are the only way to true happiness. God promises to help us through His Spirit. 1Jo 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. However, in this world Jesus said we would have tribulations and trials. It's not easy obeying God in a sinful world that hates His commandments. Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me[Jesus] ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. God is love and His Commandments teach us how to love God and fellowman. First 4 commandments teach us how to love God. The last 6 commandments teach us how to love our fellowman. This is what the two great commandments are based on. Love God with all your heart & mind...Love your fellowman as yourself. Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. 1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. LOVE DOVEY |
|
Reply
| |
Dovey, again you have no understanding of what the Word of God calls , God's commandments. When do you think God first gave his commandments? Think about this. Where, in time, is God's first commandments given? And by whom? Who gave us God's word? What does the Word say about this? Didn't Jesus say Moses gave us the LAW, (THOSE TEN) but, (see that contrast) Grace and TRUTH came by Jesus Christ? Now you go show me one single verse where Jesus told us to keep ten commandments? Or to keep the 4th commandment? Jesus gave us God's word> Did Moses give us God's word, also? If so, (according to you adventist)--then one of the has to be wrong. Moses said, in hundreds of places, that the way to keep that 4th commandment is to DO NO WORK.....DO NO SERVILE WORK, OR BE KILLED......DO WORK......AND BE KILLED.....DO WORK...AND BE KILLED.....DO NO WORK.....DO NO WORK AT ALL....OR BE KILLED. nOW rather you like it or not, THIS IS THE LAW OF THAT 4TH COMMANDMENT. This is the ONLY way ever given, on how to keep that 4th commandment, yet none of you keep it, and keep right on harping about it. if you need to keep it, then you better keep it right!! DO NO WORK AT ALL! Where did Jesus teach this or obey it? So then , if he CHANGED IT, AND IT IS STILL THE 4TH COMMANDMENT, AND MOSES GAVE US GOD'S WORD....AND THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT.... THEN MOSES OR JESUS HAD IT WRONG. They both cannot be right, and say right the opposite things. Any blind person ought to be able to see this simple thing! Yet no 'lawkeeper' has yet seen throught his obvious TRUTH. Jesus Christ did not TEACH OR LIVE BY THOSE TEN COMMANDMENTS. i ASKED you before. now answer it this time. why did not Abraham, and all the people before him, and after him, until MOses, have those ten to live by? Was not Abraham called a righteous man? Yet he never heard of those ten commandments. He never even had such a thought as keeping a saturday, either way.......either not working or by going to some church. You are way out in the darkness.......where is your truth? Jo |
|
Reply
| | | From: Dovey | Sent: 7/13/2008 1:15 AM |
Didn't Jesus say Moses gave us the LAW, (THOSE TEN) but, (see that contrast) Grace and TRUTH came by Jesus Christ? <Freeborn> Who Gave Moses those Ten Commandments on the tablets of Stone??? Exd 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God. Deu 9:10 And the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them [was written] according to all the words, which the LORD spake with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly. Moses didn't go up to Mt Sinai to invent HIS OWN LAWS. God Himself gave the laws on tablets of stone. God Himself wrote those Commandments on the tablets of Stone. They are God's Commandments. The Commandment was given BY GOD through His servant Moses to the people of Israel. The Commandments ORIGINATED from GOD. Jesus Christ did not TEACH OR LIVE BY THOSE TEN COMMANDMENTS. Jesus lived by the Commandments of God on a higher level than what was given to Israel. I think I'm beginning to see how you are looking at this. Jesus taught the SPIRITUAL intent of God's commandments. That means ...Jesus kept His Father's commandments BEYOND the letter of the law. Remember how He taught the Pharisees and people?? Jesus talked about the spiritual intent which originates from the heart. Jesus said... "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Matthew 5:27-28 Do you see? SAME LAW..only at a spiritual level. Since it is a spiritual law Freeborn, it is MORE BINDING. Jesus taught and lived His Father's Commandments they way they are suppose to be obeyed. Not just at a physical level but at the spiritual level as well. That is why you don't see people stoning the transgresser. Jesus died for the sinner. What the sinner needs to do when he/she sins is REPENT. God is there to forgive. The individual then moves ahead striving to obey God. He continues in his/her Christian life which is obedience towards God and His Commandments. 1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. LOVE DOVEY |
|
Reply
| |
No, Dovey. You are still not getting it at all. Jesus took that old law, on stone OUT OF THE WAY, nailing it to his cross and took it out of the WAY, for it was the enemity. I have not said that God did not give them that law. Sure he did. But WHY? That is the problem. and to who? That is another problem. It was NEVER GIVEN TO THE RIGHTEOUS. It was given to REBELS AND IDOL WORSHIPPERS. sURE God wrote them....but why? So he could bring them to judgment and destroy them. You are ignoring the questions.....WHY WAS ABRAHAM NOT UNDER THAT LAW? WHY WAS ABRAHAM A RIGHTEOUS MAN, WITHOUT THAT LAW? Why was Noah a perfect man, without that law? Why is everyone GUILTY under that law? Why is sin not impurted to those of us who are NOT UNDER THAT LAW? wHY was that law only given to the wicked and rebellious? Why was it never given to a righteous man? Why did God tell those Israelites, to whom he wrote those laws on stone, that even if one of their animals so much as touched that mountain, upon which Moses was WITH GOD, that they would be killed? Why did God command that all of them, including Aaron, stay far away from that Mount and not come near to it or him? Why was Moses the only one of them allowed to go up near to God or the Mount? Do you have any idea why and what all of this means? I am sure you do not. Moses was the only one of them, out of that entire nation, who was God chosen people......Moses was the only one who had FOUND GRACE. Moses tried and tried to Get God to let that nation be his people....but God refused.....claiming only Moses. It is in Exodus, if you care to read it. Those ten are not God's commandments for any righteous person. They were God's wrath for those people to whom it was given. It was for the purpose of WRATH. Read the new message I wrote, The First covenant. I am sure it will be blind to you, for you have no place in you to accept this great truth. You are too much in love with the false teaching of saturday keeping. God has never said such a thing. saturday keeping. it is nothing to God. When are you going to give me Scripture for separating the laws into those different categories? Moral and ceremonal? It is not in the book. where do you get that? and please don't forget to give me Scripture which says the way to keep saturday or the 4th C. is to go to church. I still want to read that. Such words are not in Scripture. Jo |
|
Reply
| | | From: Dovey | Sent: 7/17/2008 10:54 AM |
Those ten are not God's commandments for any righteous person. They were God's wrath for those people to whom it was given. It was for the purpose of WRATH. Read the new message I wrote, The First covenant. I am sure it will be blind to you, for you have no place in you to accept this great truth. You are too much in love with the false teaching of saturday keeping. God has never said such a thing. saturday keeping. it is nothing to God. When are you going to give me Scripture for separating the laws into those different categories? Moral and ceremonal? It is not in the book. where do you get that? and please don't forget to give me Scripture which says the way to keep saturday or the 4th C. is to go to church. I still want to read that. Such words are not in Scripture.<FREEBORN> Love is the centerpiece of all the Scriptures, of both the Old and the New Testaments. Amazingly to most people, it is in the Old Testament that we first find the instruction to "love your neighbor as yourself" Leviticus 19:18. It is there also that Moses wrote, "And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require of you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to keep the commandments of the LORD and His statutes which I command you today for your good?" Deuteronomy 10:12-13. Every commandment of God is for OUR GOOD. Did you notice in the preceding passage that obeying God's commandments and practicing love are irrevocably linked together in God's eyes? This is because the commandments define the love that is the foundation for all godly relationships. Love simply summarizes the intent of the Ten Commandments. Paul wrote: "For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law". Romans 13:9-10 The Ten Commandments are not God's wrath. DOVEY |
|
Reply
| | | From: Dovey | Sent: 7/17/2008 11:10 AM |
and please don't forget to give me Scripture which says the way to keep saturday or the 4th C. is to go to church. I still want to read that.<FREEBORN> A person who doesn't believe in going to church will not see any good reason for the 4th Commandment. The 4th commandment isn't only about coming together to "go to church". Although I don't see why that would be wrong. Coming together with believers of like mind is very encouraging and edifying. Besides, Jesus and the disciples went to the synagogues every Sabbath day to read the scriptures.Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. Mar 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he[Jesus] began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing [him] were astonished, saying, From whence hath this [man] these things? and what wisdom [is] this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Even after Jesus had died and resurrected, the disciples still went to the synagogues on the Sabbath day.Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. If it was against the commandment to "go out" as you say..why did Jesus ,the disciples and the Pharisees & Scribes go to the synagogues on the Sabbath day? That doesn't make sense. DOVEY |
|
Reply
| |
Dovey, you are overlooking something very important here. I already told you that Jesus was NOT keeping that old covenant sabbath. He did not live by that old covenant. Neither did his disciples. Jesus had the NT Sabbath, shown in Isa. 28. Go read it. He gave me that NT Sabbath. It lives inside me. I do not have to go anywhere to have it. I have it seven days a week, 365 days a year. neither did those pharisees. Sure 'they' claimed to do so, but the very fact that they went out their door, proves they were not keeping it either. Jesus and his disciples MET TOGETHER for worship and teaching the Word EVERY SINGLE DAY, not just on saturday. Jesus went into their synagogue on that day, because that is when they went. He also went into people's homes, out on mountains, out in boats, anywhere and everywhere. He did this WORK seven days a week, for he was KEEPING THE GRACE SABBATH. he told the woman at the well, NEITHER IN JERUSALEM, NOR IN YOUR MOUNTAIN, God said he HATES a set time, a set place for getting together and breaking bread. We are to worship God in SPIRIT, (which the law is of the flesh, not the Spirit) and in truth. It is not a matter of striving to keep some set of laws. The NT Church met together EVERY DAY, DAILY. AND BROKE BREAD. Do you think that means eating natural food? You have not answered a thing I asked you. Do you think Jesus changed how God told moses that this law sabbath had to be kept? Jesus gave us GRACE, NOT LAW. HE SAID THE LAW CAME BY MOSES. You do greatly err, not knowing the Scriptures or the power of God. YOU CANNOT BE UNDER GRACE, TRYING TO LIVE BY LAW. you need to listen to this. You are paving your own way to destruction, resisting all of these Scriptures I give you. nothing you say proves we should be keeping laws for the hope of righteousness. ABRAHAM had it by FAITH. Abraham was not under law. THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH. Why is it you cannot hear? Jo |
|
Reply
| |
Dovey, I want to show you something. You say you are not an adventist, so I do not know what church you go to. All I know is it teaches the same delusion. I know that the adventist church teaches, and even puts up LARGE roadsigns, (for I have seen them,) --- saying that going to church on Sunday is the mark of the beast. Does your church also teach this lie? If so, I ask you to give me one single verse of Scripture upholding this lie. There is not one single word of Scripture which even alludes in any kind of way to this lie. Not one thing in Scripture, concerning this mark of the beast even mentions going to church at any time. So I ask you...where do you suppose this lie came from? Why does that false church set up such an ungodly lie? Why must they make up such false doctrine, trying to ensnare souls into their bondage of law keeping? See, this lie proves they made up junk to teach their false stuff with. It is not once in God's word, so it is lies of man/satan. Please address this for me. Thanks, and thank you for staying in this discussion. I see so many turn and run when they cannot prove their point and I ask them questions which they cannot answer. Hope you find the truth and get willing to obey the truth. Love, Jo |
|
Reply
| |
Dovey, do you think that Jesus knew all of the Word of God? or just that which was written before he was born? Do you think that he also knew God's word, for the NT? If so, please explain to me, why you think Jesus would have ignored this commandment.... Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Here is the answer to why Jesus went into their synogogues on their sabbath days.....he was obeying the above Scripture. Scripture is GOD'S WORD. Jesus had all of it in his heart.....so we have to go by what Jesus did, and what he taught us. He taught us by his actions to WORK ON SATURDAY......WHICH DIRECTLY CROSSES THE OT SABBATH LAW. He was not going to be judged, or judge by sabbath days......it is against God's Holy Word......for having God's spirit is THE TRUE REST OF GOD......to go back to a law 'sabbath' is doing despite to this Spirit of GRACE. Now, you need to study this. Deal with it. let no man judge you in RESPECT of any sabbath day. why ignor this? why listen to a church which this false sabbath is all they think or talk about. I say false sabbath, because that is what it was.......a false sabbath....for it is not the REST TO THE SOUL. it was only a SHADOW OF THE REAL REST. the shadow is a false image of the real. if you don't believe me, go out and look down at the shadow of a tree, then look up at the real tree, and see the vast DIFFERENCE. The real sabbath is so far above that shadow of a weekly sabbath, that there is no comparison. It is as high as heaven is above earth. We have the heavenly SABBATH. It is not a matter of do's and donts. It lives inside us. It is present seven days a week, 24 hours a day. This is the only TRUE REST. That old sabbath was meant to be a day of bodily REST.......DO NO WORK.......DO NOT GO OUT THE DOOR....THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO KEEP IT. Why do you say, IF? I gave you Moses' words for it. Do you not believe the law giver? Love Jo |
|
Reply
| | | From: Dovey | Sent: 7/19/2008 11:06 PM |
Why do you say, IF? I gave you Moses' words for it. Do you not believe the law giver?<FREEBORN> Isa 33:22 For the LORD [is] our judge, the LORD [is] our lawgiver, the LORD [is] our king; he will save us. Jam 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another? DOVEY |
|
Reply
| |
The Scripture, which you will not deal with, is judging you. You are in disobedience to God's commandments, and hold to a man-made false church, which refuses the grace of Jesus. Jo |
|
|
|
Free Forum Hosting
Important Announcement
First
Return to Law & Sabbath